House of Cards

[WWWwombat]

Hate that VT claim from AJ.

[Cory Caboose]

Nyn the first rule of Discworld is never talk about Discworld

[Nynaeve]

[Nynaeve]

Hate that VT claim from AJ.

 

I just find it amusing that the advocate party of late seer cover ends up going back on his seer cover choice. lol

[Cory Caboose]

Oh wait sorry wrong game

 

The first rule of C9++ is never talk about C9++

[Nynaeve]

I think the rule is that I can't talk about any game where you rolled town and town lost.

[WWWwombat]

 

 

Wombat earlier you said that you have me, Dice and Cass as your top 3 suspects but that we were all fluid.

 

Could you explain why?

 

My town reads are a lot stronger than my scum reads and Sooh flipping town muddled things a bit too.  None of you are even close to "lock wolf" territory imo (not that I ever actually lock reads without mod confirmation).  Dice hasn't posted that much, so he could easily redeem himself, and both you and Cass have said some things that have made me think twice.  Combine that with some reasonable suspicion of my nulls and town leans, and I don't have an entirely clear picture of the scum team, but I do feel like I'm a flip from being able to break things open.  Any headway I can make before then could prove pivotal.

 

Okay - so who are your very solid town reads?

 

Does this list still apply?

 

Wwwwombat

Kaylee

Clovdyx

Songstress

Bewbs McGee

 

Not lynching.

 

I agree on the point that Dice hasn't said much and could redeem himself - I'm willing to give him that opportunity as I think his posts today could be a glimmer of town!Dice coming out. I am a villager - I think Cass is probably ~more likely a villager than wolf so there is potential that all three of us are town. Let's pretend that is the situation.

 

Who would your suspects be?

 

The problem I am having is that I don't really see a scum team without you on it and I haven't gotten that sense yet that you're town. Taking me, Dice, Cass out of the situation leaves you with Cory, Leelou & Verb. The first two I am keeping as town for now and wouldn't consider lynching.

 

 

Yes, the list still applies.  I don't have any of Cory, Leelou, Verb as better than null/mixed atm so I don't see a problem with them as potential wolves at all.  But I think it's pretty unlikely that I'm wrong on all of my top suspects, so I don't see why I should pretend that you are all town.

[Cory Caboose]

I think the rule is that I can't talk about any game where you rolled town and town lost.

You understand me

[Nynaeve]

 

I think the rule is that I can't talk about any game where you rolled town and town lost.

You understand me

 

 

I catch on eventually lol

[WWWwombat]

 

 

 

Stopping after page 11 but I would say it's very likely that Wombat/Verb/Cass/Sooh/Dice/Clov contains 2+ wolves

 

I will give you a better and more concise list later but right now those are the people I am most wary of

These sorts of posts/reads bother me Cory - how am I supposed to work out if your motivation for putting wolf suggestions out is more Town than Scum if you don't provide the reasons why/encourage more discussion?

I don't like this post. Cory has provided a solid amount of detail on the reasons why he's reading people the way he is. Whether or not he is correct is irrelevant to why I don't like this post - you're blatantly misrepping him here.

 

 

 

 

 

Wolfy:

 

Darthe - forceful on early Seer cover, ?explanation in post #54, both defending/distancing from Nyn, 'pre-vote' /overly hard push on Sooh

Why is any of the bold wolfy? Ignore the part about Nyn for purposes of your response, please. Just comment on the Seer cover and the push on Sooh. What of that was wolfy?

I've explained the Darthe and Seer cover thing in response to Clov here (See the last two paragraphs of the intro and the final spoiler if you missed it).

Basically it's not the Seer cover itself I find wolfy, it's the way Darthe made posting it early such a big thing and simultaneously admitted/downplayed the potential for incorrect early cover to be more beneficial to Scum trying to find the real Seer. Basically the concern is a potential role-fishing push to encourage a higher percentage of incorrect cover.

 

The Darthe on Sooh push felt wolfy because:

 

1. Darthe was the first to vote and the vote felt overly eager - He voted in the 'stumping' phase, where votes didn't count, and when questioned brushed it off as 'pre-vote' for the day, which didn't feel sincere;

 

 

 

Day 1 Starts at 9PM EST and will last 48 hours:

 

You may now begin stumping. Day does not start until 9:00PM EST. Votes will not count during the stump period. This is a good time to make alliances and grease palms...

 

/snip

 

 

/snip

[v] Sooh [/v]

Pre-voting for day Leelou

 

 

2. I disagreed with the generalisations that went with the vote and there was otherwise no specific reasons given or effort at interaction made:

 

 

/Snip

However, I think Sooh is definitely wolfing this round. She is usually a pretty pure townie. [v] Sooh [/v]

Sooh has been repeatedly pushed as not Townie early on in all the games I've played recently with her, so I completely disagree with the rationalisation that she's 'usually a pretty pure townie'.

This was all the involvement Sooh had in the game up until that vote, none of it seems investigative on Darthe's behalf, and none of it feels decidedly off for Sooh's early game, enough to vote, to me:

 

 

Hi everyone!

 

I will be scarce Thursday because I have an exam, and Friday because I'm overseeing someone else's exam. Other than that I should be fine

 

Happy visits to Vegas, Leelou! Sounds fun!

Lol I already love this game.

 

 

I'm a little sad Cory isn't showering me with love, but I guess I'll deal with it...

Weee!!!! Happy now!

I'm still gonna lunch you though

Ok.. warning accepted, Cory.

 

I'm a little sad Cory isn't showering me with love, but I guess I'll deal with it...

Prob a slightly wolfy intro

 

AJ I have read your soul and found it needs more content

 

Wombat, Cass, Dice scumteam.

Soulread?

 

Or is it just the Aussie theme?

 

**snip**

 

I'm pretty okay at mafia sometimes, Sooh, but I don't think I can soulread people who haven't posted.

Yeah... I suppose even you can't... Oh well...

After reading this post a couple of times, I'd doubt Cass and Sooh are w/w. This type of linking together typically does not come from v/v (imo), so I'd say one of you is a wolf. My initial gut read here says Sooh. Part of that is me putting faith in the only other villager in the game I know (my peek - Darthe), and the rest is the AtE posts she's been making.

 

I don't normally like to line up lynches like this (it is usually wolfy), but I'm going out on a limb to say if Sooh flips town, you're on the hot seat the following day.

Ok, here's the post people are having a problem about.

 

I did say that I did not think it came from v/v. Cass was defending Sooh by attacking Darthe. Think about this from my POV:

 

1. I was suspicious of Sooh, and had her #1 on my WTL

 

2. Cass appeared to be either white knighting Sooh, or maybe just defending as v/v.

 

3. But she defended Sooh by attacking Darthe, who is my N0 peek (if I'm Seer).

 

The combo of the three made me think they weren't v/v, and that one was a wolf. Not both, and not "none".

 

Why not w/w? Because it links them together too strongly, and wolves don't want that ever...especially not D1.

 

Why not v/v? Because of how she defended by attacking. This is probably where you folks are hung up with me - my interpretation that this was not likely. The whole situation left me with thinking there was a wolf there. I went with Sooh, but if she flipped town I had it in my head that I'd be wrong on Sooh and therefore it would mean I simply had the wrong player as wolf. So I also had Cass in my WTL, but based mostly on what I just explained.

 

It is entirely possible I've just explained that poorly, but I can only tell you what I was thinking and try to be as clear as I can. If I'm completely wrong and my 'logic' was stupid, so be it....but I'm standing behind this thought process and conclusion it brought me to.

 

 

Why should Darthe being your n0 peek have mattered wrt Cass though?  Townies often attack townies.  Especially on D1.

[WWWwombat]

 

 

 

 

I have to run in a few min, but I plan on being available via phone for EOD.  Just in case, I'm going to place my vote now.

 

[v]Sooh[/v]

 

There's not a lot to go on with Verb wrt Sooh. Prior to voting he points out Sooh's OMGUS, mentions that he doesn't like Sooh's 'If I was wolf' defence and hinges strongly on the concept of AtE. The responses are all valid enough, and I can understand the sting of being burnt by AtE, even if I found the whole story about his AtE potentially just AtE. Feeling wary. 

 

/Snip

 

 

@ Sooh: I didn't feel it was worth responding to

You feel horribly condescending this game so far.... Don't think I like it... 

 

 

I'm not going to agree or disagree with this, but I am going to point out the OMGUS nature of it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah guys think about this logically!

 

I tried to stir the pot D1 you shouldn't be looking at me!

 

Maybe I'm the seer, who knows?

 

 

These are almost verbatum from her post.

 

We can go ahead and may Sooh now. It won't actually do anything but you'll all get warm fuzzies from it.

By all means, go ahead. My only plan today was to give my team something to work with for later. That's all.

I intend to. You recognize that you're doing the opposite of what you should be doing as town, right?

 

Then enlighten me... I thought the purpose was to find tells as to who are wolves and not in this game. I've not been very successful in the past, so I'm trying out something new. I am Town in this game, but I do understand your push on me. At this point I feel you pushing me almost makes you the clearest Town around. Like I tried saying in my post, I'm more wary now of the people who DON'T have me as wolf...

 

If you notice I still haven't placed my vote. I don't have anywhere clear enough to put it yet. If I was wolf, would I care? Or would I just place my vote somewhere and see if it would stick? 

 

 

I followed your post until the bold, which I don't like.  I've used that defense as a wolf plenty of times, and have seen others do it as well.

 

I agree with all of this except 'I followed your post until'. 

 

 

 

 

My major issue with Sooh is that my heart really wants her to be a villager and I'm finding that harder to ignore

 

This might make no sense to ANYONE but I am going to be extremely disappointed if she's a wolf and this was her approach to "clearing herself" as a wolf - abusing guilt tactics and emotional manipulation. So I want to believe she's a villager so I don't have to deal with that disappointment.

 

But that wanting doesn't make her a villager, and that's where my heart is torn.

 

I took something Mish told me once to heart - "play a beautiful game", because there's no pride in winning a game dirty like that.

 

I want to expound on this for a minute.  I play on JN as well, and I know you're familiar with a player named the Ape there - he repped JN in the Champs games last season.

 

Some time last year, I was in a JN game and was a villager.  I had Ape as a major wolf read, and was actively pushing for his lynch.  His responses made me more and more sure of my read, and I got a little excited about lynching the biggest loud mouth on the site, lol.  Well, once I stepped up my campaign, he snapped and lashed out hard with AtE.  Very hard.  He went into how he snapped at his wife because of the game, yadda yadda.

 

Needless to say, I immediately dropped it and actually cleared him as a result.  I know you're not doing that here, but I'm making a point (that I'll get to in a min).  I said that he would never do this as a villager for the same reasons you gave above - playing clean and using those emotional tactics and the disappointment I'd feel if he did it.  I was not willing to accept he could be a wolf, and dropped my campaign.

 

I ended up dead not long after, and wolves ended up winning the game.....and he was a wolf.  I was so pissed at that moment that I almost quit playing on JN altogether.  It still stings to this day, and for that reason I will be more than happy to lynch players that use excessive AtE.  Fear mongering is fine, whatever.  But AtE is lame.  No offense to you, Sooh, but I can't accept that you'd no longer want to be an active player because so many people are disagreeing with you.  I want you to be comfortable - we all do.  But saying this in-game is obviously AtE whether you intend it that way or not.  Due to my own experience on it that I've just explained, I'm going to not feel bad at all voting you towards EOD.

 

I'm not voting yet, because I still could be persuaded to vote Cass or Wombat.  Cass due to what I was talking about in my last post, and Wombat from the mini case I made on him earlier today.  Those 3 are my WTL pool for today, with the added caveat that I highly doubt Sooh & Cass are w/w.

 

AtE about AtE?

 

 

 

 

 

How is Verb's anecdote AtE?

 

 

It's potentially not. I'm just wary because his vote on her hinges a lot on it (ie. he didn't really contribute a lot else wrt Sooh before his vote).

 

Basically reads like 'I'm voting Sooh because she's using a lot of AtE and I've been traumatised by AtE in the past'. 

 

 

Ok.  I guess I just got confused by your mention of AtE on Verb's part.  I'd thought the vote was sketchy without bringing AtE into it.

[WWWwombat]

 

 

@ Wombat - Ok ta. What is DADV? I get that it stands for Dead Air Dead Villager

sticky the acronym list!

but what does it mean, and if it's not obvious once you understand the meaning, how does it apply to to the votes by Verb and AJ?

 

 

It doesn't apply 100% but I was saying I thought they may have locked their votes in early on a townie and then jetted.  But that was mainly just spitballing alternatives to my primary theory which got shot down by the Sooh flip.

 

 

This is what it looks like to me. Why doesn't it apply?

 

 

I said it doesn't apply 100%, not that it doesn't at all.  DADV is more of a thread-wide thing imo, so I'm uncomfortable applying it to individuals, but it was the best way I had of describing what I was thinking.

[Nynaeve]

Ok.  I guess I just got confused by your mention of AtE on Verb's part.  I'd thought the vote was sketchy without bringing AtE into it.

 

To be fair I thought that the way he went on about what happened with Ape was a bit eh. I mean he could have just said he had a bad experience in another game where someone used AtE for townie points. The post seemed a bit too dramatic lol

[WWWwombat]

Also, Wombat chimed in after I explained what happened and pushed that it wad the seer cover thing. Doesn't make me feel better about him b/c at that point I had already explained that the original push was something different.

 

My post was completely unrelated to why Clov was pushing you.  I have you as town and thought Clov's push was silly.  But you saying Darthe's flip didn't spew anyone led me to believe you may not have understood SHC, so I brought it up.  Wasn't trying to say anything about your alignment.

[WWWwombat]

 

The bold on Womby. My problem isn't his explanation but rather the timing. Clov and Cory had already explained seer cover, and I had already explained that Clov was talking about something else.

 

 

FFS, I didn't care what Clov was talking about.  I quoted you, not Clov.

[Nynaeve]

 

Hate that VT claim from AJ.

 

I just wanna add...... what further bugs me about this is the following. AJ picking Verbal for seer cover means to me that by EOD1 Verbal was his strongest town read, unless I'm misunderstanding how seer cover works. Then upon rereading D1 today... which is what brought him to picking Verbal in the first place... he finds things that ping him and shoots him to the bottom of his list. So....... yeah. 

[Verbal32]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Leelou do you think Wombat/Verb would do the light bussing thing they are doing this game as w/w?

I'd know better after seeing Wombat's flip.

What do you mean?

I'm getting paranoid. Make me feel better?

Don't be paranoid. Give me a couple phases to find a wolf and reasses based on that flip to reload the scumhunting gun.

 

I'm ok with having wolf equity right now.

Then help me lynch scum.

That's the plan, yo. I'll try my best this weekend, but you know my weekend mafia activity is low at best. I'm trying to get more invested in the game, and I expect that once I'm at work it'll become easier.

 

I'm not asking for a pass. I'd understand being a train today - if so, I'll do my best to explain/defend my thought process. But I'd rather the wolves be forced to decide if I'm the Seer or not, and not have my own village decide for them.

[WWWwombat]

 

Ok.  I guess I just got confused by your mention of AtE on Verb's part.  I'd thought the vote was sketchy without bringing AtE into it.

 

To be fair I thought that the way he went on about what happened with Ape was a bit eh. I mean he could have just said he had a bad experience in another game where someone used AtE for townie points. The post seemed a bit too dramatic lol

 

 

I thought he was too dramatic about it at the time so you won't get any argument from me there lol.

[Verbal32]

 

 

The bold on Womby. My problem isn't his explanation but rather the timing. Clov and Cory had already explained seer cover, and I had already explained that Clov was talking about something else.

 

FFS, I didn't care what Clov was talking about. I quoted you, not Clov.

I don't understand why you're wasting posts arguing with a town read if yours. This is part of what I cased you on D1, btw. Hell, I think it may have been Kaylee then as well.

 

It's like you're posting just to post. Where is the sarcastic rodent with the random votes that make us annoyed you're playing the reasons close to the vest? I don't see that guy anywhere*.

 

 

 

*inb4 I'm called a hypocrite for not being a consensus villager like I usually am, lol

[Verbal32]

 

 

Ok. I guess I just got confused by your mention of AtE on Verb's part. I'd thought the vote was sketchy without bringing AtE into it.

To be fair I thought that the way he went on about what happened with Ape was a bit eh. I mean he could have just said he had a bad experience in another game where someone used AtE for townie points. The post seemed a bit too dramatic lol

BECAUSE IT STILL BOTHERS ME!!!!!

[WWWwombat]

I'm almost certainly not going to be on after 4 PM today, so it's time for people to get off me and start trying to lynch scum.  Starting with the guy who's not actually doing anything besides flinging baseless crap at me.

 

[v]Cory[/v]

[Leelou]

 

 

Ok.  I guess I just got confused by your mention of AtE on Verb's part.  I'd thought the vote was sketchy without bringing AtE into it.

 

To be fair I thought that the way he went on about what happened with Ape was a bit eh. I mean he could have just said he had a bad experience in another game where someone used AtE for townie points. The post seemed a bit too dramatic lol

 

 

I thought he was too dramatic about it at the time so you won't get any argument from me there lol.

 

 

You haven't listened to him whine about it about 100 times in person yet, have you?

[Verbal32]

 

 

 

 

Ok. I guess I just got confused by your mention of AtE on Verb's part. I'd thought the vote was sketchy without bringing AtE into it.

To be fair I thought that the way he went on about what happened with Ape was a bit eh. I mean he could have just said he had a bad experience in another game where someone used AtE for townie points. The post seemed a bit too dramatic lol

I thought he was too dramatic about it at the time so you won't get any argument from me there lol.

Shut it. Weren't you scum in that game?

[WWWwombat]

 

 

The bold on Womby. My problem isn't his explanation but rather the timing. Clov and Cory had already explained seer cover, and I had already explained that Clov was talking about something else.

FFS, I didn't care what Clov was talking about. I quoted you, not Clov.

I don't understand why you're wasting posts arguing with a town read if yours. This is part of what I cased you on D1, btw. Hell, I think it may have been Kaylee then as well.

 

It's like you're posting just to post. Where is the sarcastic rodent with the random votes that make us annoyed you're playing the reasons close to the vest? I don't see that guy anywhere*.

 

 

 

*inb4 I'm called a hypocrite for not being a consensus villager like I usually am, lol

 

 

I like to argue with people who try to lynch me.  Sue me.

[Leelou]

I'm almost certainly not going to be on after 4 PM today, so it's time for people to get off me and start trying to lynch scum.  Starting with the guy who's not actually doing anything besides flinging baseless crap at me.

 

[v]Cory[/v]

 

gross