House of Cards

[Cory Caboose]

 

I always lose.

 

[Darthe]

[v]Dice[/v]

 

I'm not going to fight a lynch on anyone of Cass/Sooh/Dice/Leelou/Tress today.  I would probably put Cass a half spot ahead of the rest of them, just because I liked the effort she gave in explaining her reads, and I think they make enough sense coming from her POV to not light them on fire.

The previous Darthe would have cleared her for twtbaw by now. I'm no longer that lenient but she prob isn't today's lynch.

[Darthe]

 

 

Is it possible that Cass is just a red/ithi hydra?

 

 

Maybe they spawned

 

Subbing out, Yates.  Seph's taking over.

Lol clov

[Clovdyx]

 

I always lose.

 

 

Thank you for putting a spoiler I was allowed to read.

[WWWwombat]

 

 

I'll be lock clearing myself by lynching a wolf today, so you can scrap the tinfoil in advance if you're feeling smart

 

Guess I'll take the N1 bullet this time.

 

 

People need to fear you first, though.

 

O_O

 

 

SHOTS FIRED

 

 

The stats speak for themselves.

[Darthe]

Whatever

 

 

AJ is almost certainly a villager, so arguing with him is pointless

Leelou is a peeked villager

 

 

Pretty confident Kaylee, Nyn/Hallia, Darthe are all villagers too, so if I get one more it shouldn't be too hard to win this game

Ehh I can follow the progression to this but think it unlikely for there to be more than one wolf in clov/verb/wombat

[Darthe]

Wombat you have to know that nyn/Cory/me are getting NK'd tonight barring the wolves falling for someones seer cover.

[Darthe]

Someone *elses

[Cory Caboose]

 

Whatever

 

 

AJ is almost certainly a villager, so arguing with him is pointless

Leelou is a peeked villager

 

 

Pretty confident Kaylee, Nyn/Hallia, Darthe are all villagers too, so if I get one more it shouldn't be too hard to win this game

Ehh I can follow the progression to this but think it unlikely for there to be more than one wolf in clov/verb/wombat

 

 

I don't get it

 

I'm not saying there isn't

[Cory Caboose]

Darthe this is the turbo where Sooh was a wolf:

 

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/59/puzzles-other-games/villager-who-owns-you-fools-1534805/

 

LMK what you think

[Clovdyx]

Wombat you have to know that nyn/Cory/me are getting NK'd tonight barring the wolves falling for someones seer cover.

 

I don't understand the point of this post, but I'm hoping you're right.

[Cory Caboose]

Clov are you actually a villager tho

[Clovdyx]

Clov are you actually a villager tho

 

Yep.

[Cory Caboose]

Do you think Sooh would take the lines she's had (specifically the self-pity sort of stuff) as a wolf?

[WWWwombat]

Thoughts on Wombat re-read/ISO started last night:

 

TLDR:

Initially off, possibly less scummy as he goes along. 

 

- Doesn't provide a lot of explanations early on, sticks to a majority of 'off-the-cuff' reads/tone calls, feels deliberately ambiguous but in most cases is probably null;

- Does make sense when he explains things beyond frank opinion;

- Decent post count, but a lot of the early stuff was fluff/;

- Progression on Darthe potentially off - amount of interaction/questioning seems disproportionate to a legitimate town read, tone feels soft for the amount of questioning;

- Explaining more as game progresses.

 

 

 

 

@ Wombat:

 

 

Clov came in and made a joke about the scum team's identity, naming three players that haven't posted yet. You asked him if that was a soulread and then asked if it was a aussie theme. The whole post sounded fake to me and I did not care for it.

 

Darthe's opinion of how you usually play means squat to me. Other than mentoring you in a game, I don't think we've played together before so my focus is on your play in THIS game. And OMGUS FoSing me for allegedly sheeping Darthe (of all people! lol) is not making you look any better in my eyes. I also find it interesting that I'm getting FoSed but Darthe isn't even though, under your consideration, your content so far doesn't warrant it.

 

 

Any other thoughts you have to share?

 

Like this post.

 

 

Can you elaborate on what you liked about Nyn's post here, since you previously mentioned getting odd vibes from her and later mentioned not being down with a Sooh lynch because the wagon 'feels thin'?

 

 

 

WRT Darthe:

 

The progression/tone in these posts stands out to me:

 

Darthe looking surprisingly townish through p. 2.

 

 

 

Five pages in and I'm liking Cory, Darthe, and Kaylee for town this game.

 

Cory and Darthe for their willingness to explain the N0 peeks for the non PoG players.

 

 

 

 

 

My peek hasn't checked in yet.

 

I think we're better served following Tom the Tom's advice and waiting towards EOD to reveal. Players unfamiliar with seer cover may have troubles keeping that consistency through out the Day that wolves can see and cross them out as legit peeks. The less time there is for that, the better.

 

Think before you claim.

Maybe that pans out more in a long game, I'm not familiar enough to say one way or another with certainty. What I do know is that early peeks are more likely to be wrong which both increases the odds of clearing yourself as not the seer if you're mafia or of you being the seer if you got it right. It's all a strange dichotomy.

I'm confused. Are you saying that it's better to wait? I'm asking because it seems like at first you're disagreeing with AJ, then agree.

 

The bold sounds like you disagree with him.

 

Green is sounds like you agree.

 

Can you please clarify?

 

Kaylee for this.  A wolfie Kaylee does not probe this early, and ask questions.  Moving on.

 

 

Meh.  How is explaining mechanics a town tell?

 

 

- What was your town tell for Darthe, through p. 2? Did I miss something besides realistically null fluff/pushing and a lengthy explanation of mechanics? Why 'meh' here?

 

 

 

Surprisingly?

 

I earn my rep elsewhere and this is in the format of those other places.  I feel comfortable playing a smooth game for some reason.

 

Last couple times I remember playing with you, you were almost unavoidably scummy.  You might still have been hung over from rolling scum like 4969570673 times in a row though.  If the old Darthe is back, I will be very happy.

 

 

- What is 'old Darthe', 'unavoidably scummy' and the difference between the two?

- What is your actual current read of Darthe? I feel like a lot of your early content was highlighting disagreement with him :

 

 

 

 

Unlike the two above me I particularly dislike this post.  The bold looks like brushing off at best (and redirecting at worst, "why isn't HE in trouble for this type of posting") and your underlined appears proddy.  This sort of aggression is, albeit, typical Nyn stuff to try and shake people up but it's also generally a poor cover for actual depth in your play as a wolf imo.

 

 

Don't get this.

 

 

 

 

 

Disagree with your take about the underline being proddy.  I don't see how that's prodding her at all.  Your take on the bold is accurate enough for me, but I don't think Nyn brushing off a pretty weak push before the game has officially started is alignment indicative for her.

I should have split that up.  I used to scumread her for the underlined but no I recognize it's just Nyn being Nyn.  I simply happen to dislike it.  It's a bit harsh where she could be cooperative and get a lot further imo.

 

 

So if it's null to you now, why did you push her for it?

 

 

 

 

 

Wombat, what's the problem with *fake* villa-peeking a wolf if you're trying to create cover?  Putting out an informed decision eliminates the possibility of it being a random choice.  You see the inherent conflict? 

 

Not sure what you mean.  Villapeeking a wolf is very -EV for town imo.  Either the wolves will assume the person is not the seer and leave him/her alone, or they will kill him/her to SHC themselves.  The odds of it working out well for town are very low in those circumstances imo.

 

 

 

Pushed for the bold not the underlined Womby.  Besides, my policy is that it can't hurt to place everything that stands out to me on thread just to air it out.  Feels right.

 

Kind of the exact opposite of my philosophy but ok I guess.

 

 

But seriously Wombat why have you not directly quoted one of the wolfy Sooh posts and defended her already?  

 

Sooh is null to me atm.  I can see why Nyn didn't like her "soulread" comment and would want to push her for it, but it didn't read as scummy to me.  And I'm not going to defend someone while I'm still catching up.  I will say that as of right now, I don't really like the idea of a Sooh lynch as the wagon feels thin.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wombat, what's the problem with *fake* villa-peeking a wolf if you're trying to create cover?  Putting out an informed decision eliminates the possibility of it being a random choice.  You see the inherent conflict? 

 

Not sure what you mean.  Villapeeking a wolf is very -EV for town imo.  Either the wolves will assume the person is not the seer and leave him/her alone, or they will kill him/her to SHC themselves.  The odds of it working out well for town are very low in those circumstances imo.

 

Sure there is risk inherent but occams razor man.  Everyone is aware that SHC doesn't really mean clear and everyone is aware that leaving poor cover is way more +ev than leaving no cover.  I think that making an informed decision on who you pretend to peek is going to make anyone who does that stick out as an evident fake peek.  I could be wrong but that is my concern and it seems to me to be a legitimate since random peeks and informed peeks are mutually exclusive things.  

 

 

Ok.  I see what you're saying there.  But it's also possible to just gradually start town reading an actual peek.  All in how you play it I guess.  I like to hold my peek until near EoD but I tend to play a lot of things close to the vest.

 

P.S.  Would you say this isn't even your final form?

 

 

 

 

But then in your more recent stuff (#552 sorry, linked cos not quoted from original ISO) you say Darthe pushing anti-Town angles isn't alignment indicative and that 'his other content has been good'.

Why question him so much/highlight disagreements if you both think his content is good and don't believe it will be alignment indicative? 

 

 

Nyn's post had plenty of bite without being overly harsh and seemed like something town Nyn would post.  I wouldn't have pursued the angle she did on Sooh, but it strikes me as the kind of thing Nyn likes to explore.  As for my odd vibes on her, I can't really explain it yet because it was gut at the time and it hasn't been reinforced since.

 

As for Darthe, I don't know why you are assuming I had a town read on him or why that should preclude me questioning or disagreeing with him.  As of p. 2, Darthe was a town lean.  I saw his apparent desire to probe people and get the game moving as townish.  He later said some things I disagreed with or didn't quite get and I responded to them accordingly.  This is fairly normal as Darthe and I often look at things differently.  Right now, I would say Darthe is a mild town read.  I disagree with some of the things he's said, but many of them seem to be coming from a town mindset to me.

 

With respect to "unavoidably scummy," it's exactly what it says on the tin.  There was a time when Darthe would consistently look terrible no matter what role he had or what he did.  Sort of a corollary of Full Darthe I guess.

 

And if I disagree with a post enough, I'm going to make it known regardless of whether or not I think the author is town.  I've openly disagreed with mod-confirmed townies before.  Difference of opinion does not necessitate enmity.

[Clovdyx]

I honestly don't know.  My instincts make me think probably not. I can't help shake the feeling that she would know better than to basically go on a "woe is me" campaign, and it doesn't seem all that removed from how I remember her acting in Darthe's game.  She seemed kind of overwhelmed there so I could see that here, as well.  It's more severe here, I guess?

[WWWwombat]

Wombat you have to know that nyn/Cory/me are getting NK'd tonight barring the wolves falling for someones seer cover.

 

Do you really have to post every thought that comes into your head?

[Cory Caboose]

 

 

 

 

 

Wombat, Cass, Dice scumteam.

Soulread?

 

Or is it just the Aussie theme?

 

 

I'm pretty okay at mafia sometimes, Sooh, but I don't think I can soulread people who haven't posted.  

 

stares into clovs eyes.

 

lets see if your soul read is as good as my gut read.

 

 

 

@AJ youscumming on me?

 

 

Vote: Sooh

 

Tone of those posts where she was defending herself is off. She willnow brin up the fact that i always find her scummy.

 

 

hi nyn!   hows u?

 

 

 

 

@AJ youscumming on me?

 

 

Vote: Sooh

 

Tone of those posts where she was defending herself is off. She willnow brin up the fact that i always find her scummy.

 

If Sooh was modspewed as town right now, who else would you be interested in lynching today?

 

right now? AJ

 

 

 

except it cant be wolfy ass im not a wolf.

 

 

excuse my typos  im at dads and usingone of those stupid rubberkeyboard things. they sux!!

 

^

 

this is dice's entire filter up til page 18 and I think for the whole game

 

there is one post here that is SLIGHTLY villagery and the rest are all not great

 

not a good look overall

 

 

 

 

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! 

 

Thoughts to p. 14

 

Like AJ's suggestion to leave peek/cover til EoD

Did not read Sooh's early Aussie theme post as scummy - sounded like normal Sooh, reaction/explanation read natural (?Australian bias *g*)

 

 

Wolfy:

 

Darthe - forceful on early Seer cover, ?explanation in post #54, both defending/distancing from Nyn, 'pre-vote' /overly hard push on Sooh

 

Leelou - too little to make a call yet, but interaction with Verb did feel off

 

Clov - push on Nyn was weak, with quick backtracking to follow. ?more Town since

 

Kaylee - pushy/observant questioning - quick agreements with Darthe/Clov felt off 

 

Nyn/Hally - watching this space: Nyn's 'tude seems normal Nyn/nulll but push on Sooh and interaction with Darthe may need more attention. Like Hally's logic, not sure what to make of tone.

This is an awful wolf list.

 

Cass are you attempting to incorperate TWTBAW by chance?  If so just use our codeword.  It's Clovian Dongonomics if you forgot.

 

 

'Awful' because it has you at the top so early on, perchance? You sir, are on my watch list. If it's genuinely awful to you and you are Town, discuss with me why, or just bite me - you pointing out that it's awful without further discussion is still scummy, especially since you're one who has specifically told me it's ok to be 'wrong' sometimes 

 

 

god i hate this response from Cass

 

Inb4 Clov soulread 66% of the scumteam

[WWWwombat]

I am WTL Sooh but would like to use what time we have left as productively as possible.  In particular, I think it would help if some of the low posters stepped up a bit.

[Cory Caboose]

specifically dice read the thread (or at least most of it, since what he quoted was buried in the middle somewhere) and the only thing he had to say about it was the ONE reference made about him in the entire thing

that just doesn't sound like what town dice does to me

 

not at all

[Cory Caboose]

I honestly don't know.  My instincts make me think probably not. I can't help shake the feeling that she would know better than to basically go on a "woe is me" campaign, and it doesn't seem all that removed from how I remember her acting in Darthe's game.  She seemed kind of overwhelmed there so I could see that here, as well.  It's more severe here, I guess?

 

This is basically how I feel to a T

 

I just don't know

[Darthe]

 

Wombat you have to know that nyn/Cory/me are getting NK'd tonight barring the wolves falling for someones seer cover.

 

Do you really have to post every thought that comes into your head?

 

Yes

 

668 from Clov is on point and FTR my old dice meta says that he is far less involved as a wolf.  It's an outdated meta but it can explain his behavior.  I think we will know more later with him.

[Darthe]

 

I honestly don't know.  My instincts make me think probably not. I can't help shake the feeling that she would know better than to basically go on a "woe is me" campaign, and it doesn't seem all that removed from how I remember her acting in Darthe's game.  She seemed kind of overwhelmed there so I could see that here, as well.  It's more severe here, I guess?

 

This is basically how I feel to a T

 

I just don't know

 

At this point it probably doesn't matter.  Townies that look exactly like wolves happen to never get NK'd and become more of a liability over time.  

[Leelou]

@Clov - dice was my N0 townie peek, not a good looking vote from you.

[Clovdyx]

specifically dice read the thread (or at least most of it, since what he quoted was buried in the middle somewhere) and the only thing he had to say about it was the ONE reference made about him in the entire thing

that just doesn't sound like what town dice does to me

 

not at all

 

What stood out to me about Dice (besides just the complete lack of effort) is his ONLY thought worth sharing happened to be the most unanimously scumread player in the game.  That's about the safest place you could park a vote to avoid contributing.