A Tale of Middle Earth: Game OVER

[Askthepizzaguy]

If he were a wolf, saying I had potentially a red peek on him would mean it would attract murders in my direction.

 

That makes it easier for any true village doctor to stop a murder. Calling out for protection later on would play the WIFOM game of whether or not I can self-protect, but I doubt this website uses such roles, especially with a bulletproof already revealed, so protection would still be useful if it exists, btw.

 

I'd cover the peeked villagers/mason tonight.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I think I want to see Yates lose his mind completely.

 

[v]Yates[/v]

 

Of note, I thought Verbal's push here was scummy at the time, and I thought a little bit of this-

 

Yates, don't worry - you have time.  I'm not ready for you to die yet.

 

Was almost lampshading what would happen next.

 

 

 

The reason BP seems too convenient is there is no way for town to confirm it without lynching or or outing investigative/vigs.

I already told you my role. Flying Pumpkin. Do you know what a Flying Pumpkin is? A BP Vig. It's easy enough to prove but no one seems to want that so I can care less.

 

 

Also, I'm Faramir - not that a role claim should ever dissuade a lynch.

 

 

 

Official Vote Count Nine:

 

 

Pizza (1/13): Eldrick

Yates (2/13): AJ, Leelou

Eldrick (1/13): Pizza

Alot (1/13): Yates

Sili (1/13): Talya

Seph (2/13): Sooh, EP

 

Not Voting (16/24):

Alot, Alanna, John Snow, Thane, Krak, Taborline, Tress, Batassery, Laine, Tina, Sili, Seph, Dice, Zander, Verb, Hally

 

 

With 24 alive, it's 13 to lynch!  Deadline is 12:15 AM EST on Wednesday, the 13th.  

 

 

Official Vote Count Ten:

 

 

Pizza (1/13): Eldrick

Yates (3/13): AJ, Leelou, Sili

Eldrick (1/13): Pizza

Alot (1/13): Yates

Hally (1/13): Talya

Seph (2/13): Sooh, EP

 

Not Voting (15/24):

Alot, Alanna, John Snow, Thane, Krak, Taborline, Tress, Batassery, Laine, Tina, Seph, Dice, Zander, Verb, Hally

 

 

With 24 alive, it's 13 to lynch!  Deadline is 12:15 AM EST on Wednesday, the 13th.  

And then Yates was lynched as a bulletproof power.

 

@ Everyone: Look at the three votes on Yates, and remember that Sili flipped town.

 

Might explain my Andrej read more now.

 

And then I had issues with Andrej's entire leans list later on.

 

Talya voting my peek, Andrej's lean list and vote here, and Verbal's behavior led to them being my top 3 scum picks.

 

I also dropped Eldrick from my scums list for spewing himself villager by not reading my claim at all.

 

This is my process. I can fake it as a wolf, by the way, but it reads a lot more genuine when I actually am a villager.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I guess I'll start things off

 

 

[v]Andrej[/v]

 

I've got a peek on Krak, and he voted for someone I already suspected. I want to help Krak push a suspect.

 

Hello Krak.

 

Glad you've decided to play finally.

 

How does Zander's flip affect your EP read?

 

This reads like a wolf trying to trip up a villager.

 

@Krak - how is EP a scum lean when he called out that he knew Zander was town?  That implies Mason pretty heavily, and that's what Zander flipped.

 

So unless you're suggesting EP had some sort of N0 action to ID the alignment of Zander and that is was a huge coincidence (like, HUGE) that Zander ended up flipping Mason, I'm not sure WTF you're smoking.

 

This also read like a wolf trying to trip up a villager.

 

I hated everyone who went after Krak, with various degrees of game-related only hate.

 

 

Krak spewed himself villager 95% of the time here, based on that observation.

 

Derp clears are not a thing, because they can be faked, but at the same time, I completely understand- I couldn't even recall who Zander's mason partner was without re-reading.

 

Stuff isn't sinking in yet.

 

But I feel great about my Sooh and Krak village leans, and we have a known mason.

 

Sili looking amazing and villagery. Yates probably still a villager.

 

That's five. Anyone looking to join this list, do me a favor: trim your multiquotes down.

 

I might give you free villager points for the day which expire in....

 

I'll be generous, two Day rounds. So Day Four at the earliest.

 

Here, I give a plausible sounding reason for people to back the heck off of my peek.

 

 

 

Krak: Because you don't like one of EP's arguments you think he is scum even though he soft claimed a mason with Zander, and the Zander turns up a dead Mason?

Vote: Talya will be the first dead scumbag this game.

 

 

And push suspicion on Talya for reactions. Look how no one wanted to cause a Talya mislynch.

 

I guess the wolves aren't interested in lynching Talya for some inexplicable reason.

 

 

 

 

Krak: Because you don't like one of EP's arguments you think he is scum even though he soft claimed a mason with Zander, and the Zander turns up a dead Mason?

Vote: Talya will be the first dead scumbag this game.

 

 

that would be impossible

 

 

Hurdles the obstacle. No defense, no village process.

 

 

 

Pizza, can you explain your scum reads?

 

Yeah, I have found nothing clearing for EL and my suspicion from yesterday remains, however tunneling him won't be productive.

 

If I'm mistaken I'd be wasting two days in a row, if I'm not, there are others on his team most likely.

 

Talya snap decision based on reading Krak, I don't feel her questioning of Krak is villagery.

 

Verbal is my secret wolf. I may or may not have hidden reasons to find him to be a wolf. We shall see as the day progresses whether there is magic contained inside my delivery bag, or if it is mere misdirection and whether I reconsider my stance.

 

Secret wolf means a peek or a hunch that I will articulate later.

 

 

I already felt Verbal was scum, so I thought doing a spread shot into Aj, Talya, and Verbal would get someone's attention.

 

There's gotta be two wolves in there, one MINIMUM.

 

And defending Krak, and pushing those who pushed themselves all up inside Krak's krak, was how my entire Day 2 went.

[Niniel]

Okay, with that claim I will likely vote Verbal anyway but I want to iso Pizza´s posts before deciding. What I remember is that I felt that his posts where very "self centred". I don´t have time now but I will do it later. I still feel that Verbal´s posts has been scummy. I don´t understand people that just say this is just town vs. town. 

[Askthepizzaguy]

This is why I am a villager.

 

 

 

My possible mafia reads atm 

 

Krak

Leelou

Aj

Thane

Seph

 

For the sake of Thane's refusal to even play or request replacement [v]Thane[/v]

 

I had to step in and defend Thane also today, because both of my bloody peeks were getting voted, and here, it's from a known villager.

 

 

I agree that this game is a lot harder to keep up with. I have read everything at least once, and reply to recent events, but I know I have missed a lot. I have today and tomorrow off, and intend to reread this whole friggin thing.

 

Regarding Thane, it's true that lynching him won't give us much information, but that really only matters if he's town. Is his level of activity and unwillingness to contribute a sign of him being scum? I think it might be. For now, that's where my vote goes.

 

[v]Thane[/v]

 

This vote I thought was terrible at the time.

 

@ Pizza

 

I now realize that I thought your reaction to Sili's comment about how you are more careful as a wolf was taken out of context. It doesn't sound as bad when given the proper light.

 

That being said, I do want to know your thought process on why you wouldn't vote the person to intend to vote, and still question other people.

 

I hated this question, because I thought it was looking for villagery inconsistency to attack.

 

Wolves like to pick on inconsistency from villagers, hypocrisy, duplicity, or illogic.

 

None of it is wolfy, it is human. And attacking humans for being human is, and always has been, for seven years of playing this game, wolfy behavior.

 

So that's how I viewed it.

 

Viewed another way, he's asking about my villagery process. This is solving behavior and part of why I reversed my read on him to villager.

 

 

@ Pizza

 

I now realize that I thought your reaction to Sili's comment about how you are more careful as a wolf was taken out of context. It doesn't sound as bad when given the proper light.

 

That being said, I do want to know your thought process on why you wouldn't vote the person to intend to vote, and still question other people.

 

Eldrick, you have impeccable timing. Yours were the questions I saw while catching up that I felt needed a response.

 

Early read on someone being scum probably because they were behaving differently, they had a knowledge role which can cause folks to behave differently.

 

After leaving suspicion on him I saw what I felt was better day one reasons to vote for you. Returning to the original suspect became less and less valid, to me, and that's before the mason-ish behavior.

 

Then you basically began questioning why I wasn't following up on him, while my vote was on you, it made it seem to me like you were attacking me for consistency reasons (wolfy process, villagers understand basic inconsistency) and also trying to get my vote off of you.

 

I didn't think your questioning of me was legitimate, and I thought it would be telling to see if anyone took sides in our dispute.

 

I didn't see a whole lot of support for or against either of our positions. Either we have some scumbags who are good about not flinching or we have a villager villager interaction, or you could be one of the multiballs.

 

I can't figure you out but given the lack of agreement on your wolfishness I think it would be more productive for me to table it and suggest another guess rather than tunnel you all game.

 

If you could begin acting more villagery that would be quite helpful to me.

 

 

Here's why I began to reverse.

 

 

What do you like about either Eldrick or Tayla's posts, and why don't you like Krak?

 

Here's where I start to hammer Andrej.

 

 

Thank you for getting back to me. My suspicion of you was wavering. The only thing keeping it there was your lack of responding to why you didn't vote Zander. I like this response.
 
As for acting more villagery, I don't follow. I'm trying to find scum. I'm weighing people's responses and pointing out what seems off to me. Please elaborate on what i should be doing, because I thought I was doing what I should be.

I can't give you an instruction manual for this part-

 

In the Champions game I eventually cleared three villagers who had never been cleared by the cop, based on tells in their posts.

 

If you're a villager, you should be able to do or say something that reveals that aspect of who you are, inside, as you're playing the game.

 

But telling you what is a villager tell invalidates the tell. So I'm asking for something I know not what.... it's up to you to deliver.

 

Not every villager can clear themselves, but I'm watching, not tunneling, keeping an open mind.

 

What do you think of Andrej?

 

 

Here's where I try to figure out where Eldrick, shrinking as my suspect, feels about Andrej, my next suspect.

 

Regarding Thane-

 

If he's a villager, I probably look wolfy for defending him.

 

If he's a wolf, I probably look wolfy for defending him.

 

He can't be like this all game. Everyone back off of him for a little while, let him get caught up, and then, give him a normal amount of time to deliver.

 

Once that happens, if you hate his posts, lynch him.

 

He's an easy, vulnerable, consensus-y target. Do the harder thing and give him the time he needs.

 

Vote me instead of him if you think this request is coming from a wolfy mindset. I'd like to have that on record anyway.

 

Here, I specifically defend Thane, asking to be voted instead of Thane. It would be solving for me to see people take such bait.

 

I didn't leave my peek on him, but if I died, it would be obvious I maybe peeked him.

 

 

 

Hally, Sooh, Alot, AH, Dice, Yates, Thane, Verb, Talya, El, Leelou, Sili, Krak, Taborline, AJ, Alannalynn, Seph, EP, Tina, Batassery

 

Sorted:

 

EP

Krak

Sili

Yates

Sooh

Seph

 

Unsorted

 

Verb

El

Tayla

 

Changes-

 

Andrej is in brick red (suspicion but not sold)

Contemplating dropping El to neutral.

 

I generally strongly disagree with basically all of Andrej's viewpoints. I don't know if that's because he's the most obvious wolf of all time or if he's a very against the grain villager.

 

I don't usually assume it's as simple as the first option.

 

 

Here's where I get serious about pushing Verbal and Tayla, and push Andrej to brick Red.

 

 

 

For one Eldrick is playing a world's difference than I have seen him before. I wouldn't expect you to know this, but it's an important detail nonetheless. In our last game together I was a villager and he was a wolf and I had him pretty firmly pegged D1. What I like about his posts is that he's being vocal with his ideas but not in a way I feel is intentionally manipulative. I also like that he is showing progression and a willingness to adjust his mindset when someone brings up a valid point contesting his. I didn't see this type of fluidity in his thought process in our last contest together. The interactions between him and Alot are a good example and both strike me as villagery in their discussion.

I have actually liked Tayla since her game entrance. I haven't played with her before but I get the sense she conveys her thoughts in a clear and confident manner.

Krak is a bit of a volume tell. He came out okay D1 and engaged EP and Sili over some stuff I don't really remember exactly without looking back. Then he goes absent for the entiriety of D1 only to reappear again with some random posts before Day break. I don't see much of contribution on his end and frankly I feel like his case towards me is weak, but I'm willing to concede that could just be me getting my panties in a bunch.

 

I think your confidence on Eldrick is indicative of wolfy PIS.

 

Even a change as you describe it should not warrant such confidence.

 

Put it to you like this- suppose I'm a villager and Eldrick is. I suspect Eldrick.

 

You, a wolf, see this and strongly townread him, and give reasons a, b, c, d, and e why he's a villager.

 

Based on a difference of one game.

 

I find that to be wolf manipulation of the diplo situation. If I were to ever suspect Andrej, he might assume he has a voting ally in Eldrick for townreading him while I am scum reading Eldrick.

 

I think it is a cunning attempt to divide the town, the process feels too fake.

 

 

Here's where I point out Andrej is using wolfy diplo tactics to divide village.

 

I attack his process openly.

 

 

 

Now, if that's wrong, I can at least tell you why.

 

You have zero reasons to find Talya villager. You have a thin sense about her, and that's all.

 

And if she is a villager, again you have played the wolfy diplo game. Pizza has scumread two villagers, now if Pizza scumreads Andrej he will find himself quite without voting allies.

 

I think your villager reads are naked attempts at manipulating the players you're townreading.

 

All on record why I feel Andrej is a wolf.

 

unvote

 

Vote Andrej

 

Mostly for reactions. The process reads true but I'm not confident on it.

 

I am not confident on it, but goddamn it, why did he not get more votes today?

 

 

Agree to disagree then. I know where I'm coming from this game.

I would ask you to re-read Tayla's body of work in full and not judge her based solely on your snap read in defense of Krak. I think you'll better understand where I'm coming from when you do that.

As far as Krak goes I'm not willing to buy into the derp clearing logic. I'm not going to condemn him for his push on me today but I also don't think it's a hard stance to take at this point. I need to see work from him so that I can judge whether I think he's legit or simply a wolf who thought he saw a tasty snack.

You're a gentleman, but that alone isn't going to make me think you're a villager.

 

I detest your reads at the moment and I think they can be created for wolfy reasons.

 

 

No gentlemanly disagreement and live and let live when it comes to wolves.

 

So now I am opening a portal to the alternate parallel universe.

 

Step inside the portal for a moment with me.

 

In here, Andrej, you are a villager and I've suddenly become aware of that, and know it with certainty. You do not have to return this courtesy.

 

Who are Krak's wolf partners?

 

Solving question.

 

Who are Krak's wolf partners?

 

Answer given was me, and it's so terrible.

 

 

Eldrick

The way you talk about Leelou pushing Thane sounds like you find it suspicious or bad.

I don't really understand why you'd follow it in that case?

 

If Eldrick and Thane are both villagers, this post appears to be crowd control. Sowing division via indirect means.

 

 

Calling out Andrej's entire wolf strategy.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Okay, with that claim I will likely vote Verbal anyway but I want to iso Pizza´s posts before deciding. What I remember is that I felt that his posts where very "self centred". I don´t have time now but I will do it later. I still feel that Verbal´s posts has been scummy. I don´t understand people that just say this is just town vs. town. 

 

He's not scummy. He appeared that way, for a long time, particularly toward the end of this Day.

 

But he's not scum, and you need to read that clearly.

 

I'm a villager or a wolf, but Verbal is a villager at this point. Ask how his power is useful to wolves, when other powers are much more useful.

 

It's town versus town. Use the time to find the wolves and place your vote wherever you feel you can justify it.

 

If I am telling you directly that Verbal is a villager, and that I am a Villager or a Wolf, and you vote me, I want you to also say who my wolf partners could be.

 

For the record.

[Sooh]

**snip**

 

@Sooh: I'm leaning town on Dice, i haven't seen anything bad from him, but you seem rather convinced that he's scum, the way you keep bringing it back, just wondering if you're seeing something I'm not seeing. I'll go back and ISO just in case.

**snip**

 

It's not that I have seen anything bad. It's more that I haven't seen anything good. I would expect at this point of the game that when he gives his votes or reads he has something else than his gut to base it on. 

 

**snip**

Meh..I don't like any of the trains at the moment.

[v]Dice[/v]

I still don't understand why you jumped on a random person with... 21 minutes left to the day and nobody really following you on that Dice-vote front (except I think maybe Tina? mentioned she was willing to switch over). I think spreading votes at the end of day is a bad idea.

 

**snip**

I would think this post explained why I jumped to a random person. I was not happy with voting neither Thane nor Verbal as I have them both as slight town reads. I was trying to get the town to come with me and vote someone I believe is scum. If you look a little further you'll also see that I did vote on the main trains out of necessity before EOD, but it was not a happy vote. 

 

 

At this point I don't really know what to believe... Part of me thinks this another v/v situation which means it all sucks. We'll either way lose a power player tomorrow. I can see what Yates is saying when he says regardless their affiliation they can help out hunting the wolves on the other team. 

 

I've thought Verb was if not clear town then at least townish for a while, but this whole last part around EOD has confused me... and pizza... I literally don't know what to believe. I've read a few of his games, and he could literally pull this both as town and mafia... This is going to be a really really difficult vote to cast. 

 

Why couldn't you just all not follow me on Dice?

 

I'm not going to vote tonight. I need to sleep on it and ponder some more. And I really really have no idea where to put my vote right now. Will try to be more cohesive in my thoughts tomorrow...

Sooh, I hate to say this my dear, but this is the first time you've said anything this game which makes me suspect you.

 

Heh, calling the interaction between us villager on villager seems almost like TMI.

 

It doesn't matter, though. If your instincts are getting to that point or your mentor is coaching you well, I wouldn't consider it that unusual.

 

It pains me to even say I have shaken my villager read on you at all, sweetie. I understand your struggle to read me but stradling the fence is not how I'd expect villager Sooh to react here.

 

You know what I'm capable of. I think villager Sooh votes me almost every time.

 

So, to help me understand you, I'm going to ask you a solving question, sweetie.

 

Why are you not reading me solidly wolf right now? What is making you hold back? Surely it's not the claim itself, you know I could create any claim I want.

 

What is it?

 

How are statements like "I think" or "I believe" TMI? It's not like I'm sure of either of you. I am learning to trust my reads, which is what my mentors have told me from the beginning that I should do. 

 

As for your claim I have my own thoughts about that. 

 

Why am I not reading you solidly as a wolf... I think it's hard to read you both as villager and wolf. Every time I've read one of your games and tried to guess I have been wrong. As for this game I think your claim reads more VT than PR. You're still trying to draw a NK, which, as scum would not be ideal in a multiball game. This is my process for not reading you as straight up scummy right now.

 

Your claim is a very elaborate claim, and it does have its traces in your posts. The only thing I think you didn't mention about your claim at the start of day was that you had Thane as a peeked villager. It wasn't in your first reads. Not even as a breadcrumb. You did warm up to him throughout the day, so the breadcrumbing began, but leaving him out completely in that first reads list is strange. Of course it might be because Thane had done pretty much nothing up until that point in the game, so it was hard to justify him as a town read without giving away too much about your ability to peek, but yes... 

 

This is my process right now regarding you. This is why I'm sitting on the fence, because I want to see what else might come up that can sway my mind one way or another. With the votes being locked too I would like to hold on to my power as a villager to lynch whoever I want for as long as there can still be posts that can change my mind. 

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

Sooh, I hate to say this my dear, but this is the first time you've said anything this game which makes me suspect you.

 

Heh, calling the interaction between us villager on villager seems almost like TMI.

 

It doesn't matter, though. If your instincts are getting to that point or your mentor is coaching you well, I wouldn't consider it that unusual.

 

It pains me to even say I have shaken my villager read on you at all, sweetie. I understand your struggle to read me but stradling the fence is not how I'd expect villager Sooh to react here.

 

You know what I'm capable of. I think villager Sooh votes me almost every time.

 

So, to help me understand you, I'm going to ask you a solving question, sweetie.

 

Why are you not reading me solidly wolf right now? What is making you hold back? Surely it's not the claim itself, you know I could create any claim I want.

 

What is it?

How are statements like "I think" or "I believe" TMI? It's not like I'm sure of either of you.

I am learning to trust my reads, which is what my mentors have told me from the beginning that I should do.

 

Phrasing your village/village perfect knowledge as "I think" or "I believe" are simple and basic things that even a novice wolf understands to do.

 

Even if they're not always aware that they shouldn't reveal their perfect knowledge in any way to start off with.

 

 

 

As for your claim I have my own thoughts about that. 

 

Why am I not reading you solidly as a wolf... I think it's hard to read you both as villager and wolf.

Every time I've read one of your games and tried to guess I have been wrong.

As for this game I think your claim reads more VT than PR.

You're still trying to draw a NK, which, as scum would not be ideal in a multiball game.

That is very logical.

 

 

This is my process for not reading you as straight up scummy right now.

 

Your claim is a very elaborate claim, and it does have its traces in your posts.

 

Those traces can be faked, all you have to do is plan ahead. If I'm a wolf or even a vanilla villager I'm always planning my fake claims well in advance.

 

The only thing I think you didn't mention about your claim at the start of day was that you had Thane as a peeked villager.

 

It wasn't in your first reads. Not even as a breadcrumb.

 

You did warm up to him throughout the day, so the breadcrumbing began, but leaving him out completely in that first reads list is strange.

 

Of course it might be because Thane had done pretty much nothing up until that point in the game, so it was hard to justify him as a town read without giving away too much about your ability to peek, but yes... 

 

I hadn't planned on claiming at all today. Thane and Krak were both under pressure for silly reasons.

 

Dying and flipping villager with investigative powers means I wouldn't have to make my peeks as part of my leans list at start of Day.

 

Veteran seer strategies involve not outright stating your peeks immediately, there's zero seer cover in this game.

 

Eventually due to the number of Krak votes and the vast amount of scumminess I saw in the thread, and due to the outside chance I could be protected tonight by another role, I claimed and also tested Verbal with a fake red / gut read.

 

If I was wrong about Verbal being scum, it VASTLY improves my survivability tonight.

 

If I was correct about Verbal being scum, it saves two villagers from the lynch and lynches a scum.

 

That is how I play.

 

And I could do this as a vanilla townie, you're right. But it involves a LOT of assumptions about the alignments of Krak and Thane, in a multiball game full of scums.

 

I don't think I draw a murder unless I'm deadly accurate as vanilla villager.

 

More likely this game I am actually the JOAT as claimed, and require protection tonight. Fakepeeking Verbal is the main reason why that is the case.

 

Spewing myself Not-Seer is not my goal as a vanilla townie. I want to draw that murder in that case.

 

Getting a wrong peek on Verbal drastically improves my night survivability as seer, yet still performs the function of defending both my peeks.

 

Now, Sooh, tell me whether I am a vanilla villager, a power role of some kind not what I claimed it was, a power role exactly as I claimed it was, or am I a wolf?

 

You should have all the data you need about me now.

 

I am interested in sorting you villager, and your response seems to be so, but I need to be very clear and thorough.

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

Sorry, borked the quote tags. Reposting.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Sorry, borked the quote tags, reposting.

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

Sooh, I hate to say this my dear, but this is the first time you've said anything this game which makes me suspect you.

 

Heh, calling the interaction between us villager on villager seems almost like TMI.

 

It doesn't matter, though. If your instincts are getting to that point or your mentor is coaching you well, I wouldn't consider it that unusual.

 

It pains me to even say I have shaken my villager read on you at all, sweetie. I understand your struggle to read me but stradling the fence is not how I'd expect villager Sooh to react here.

 

You know what I'm capable of. I think villager Sooh votes me almost every time.

 

So, to help me understand you, I'm going to ask you a solving question, sweetie.

 

Why are you not reading me solidly wolf right now? What is making you hold back? Surely it's not the claim itself, you know I could create any claim I want.

 

What is it?

How are statements like "I think" or "I believe" TMI? It's not like I'm sure of either of you.

I am learning to trust my reads, which is what my mentors have told me from the beginning that I should do.

 

Phrasing your village/village perfect knowledge as "I think" or "I believe" are simple and basic things that even a novice wolf understands to do.

 

Even if they're not always aware that they shouldn't reveal their perfect knowledge in any way to start off with.

 

 

As for your claim I have my own thoughts about that.

 

Why am I not reading you solidly as a wolf... I think it's hard to read you both as villager and wolf.

Every time I've read one of your games and tried to guess I have been wrong.

As for this game I think your claim reads more VT than PR.

You're still trying to draw a NK, which, as scum would not be ideal in a multiball game.

That is very logical.

 

 

This is my process for not reading you as straight up scummy right now.

 

Your claim is a very elaborate claim, and it does have its traces in your posts.

Those traces can be faked, all you have to do is plan ahead. If I'm a wolf or even a vanilla villager I'm always planning my fake claims well in advance.

 

The only thing I think you didn't mention about your claim at the start of day was that you had Thane as a peeked villager.

 

It wasn't in your first reads. Not even as a breadcrumb.

 

You did warm up to him throughout the day, so the breadcrumbing began, but leaving him out completely in that first reads list is strange.

 

Of course it might be because Thane had done pretty much nothing up until that point in the game, so it was hard to justify him as a town read without giving away too much about your ability to peek, but yes...

I hadn't planned on claiming at all today. Thane and Krak were both under pressure for silly reasons.

 

Dying and flipping villager with investigative powers means I wouldn't have to make my peeks as part of my leans list at start of Day.

 

Veteran seer strategies involve not outright stating your peeks immediately, there's zero seer cover in this game.

 

Eventually due to the number of Krak votes and the vast amount of scumminess I saw in the thread, and due to the outside chance I could be protected tonight by another role, I claimed and also tested Verbal with a fake red / gut read.

 

If I was wrong about Verbal being scum, it VASTLY improves my survivability tonight.

 

If I was correct about Verbal being scum, it saves two villagers from the lynch and lynches a scum.

 

That is how I play.

 

And I could do this as a vanilla townie, you're right. But it involves a LOT of assumptions about the alignments of Krak and Thane, in a multiball game full of scums.

 

I don't think I draw a murder unless I'm deadly accurate as vanilla villager.

 

More likely this game I am actually the JOAT as claimed, and require protection tonight. Fakepeeking Verbal is the main reason why that is the case.

 

Spewing myself Not-Seer is not my goal as a vanilla townie. I want to draw that murder in that case.

 

Getting a wrong peek on Verbal drastically improves my night survivability as seer, yet still performs the function of defending both my peeks.

 

Now, Sooh, tell me whether I am a vanilla villager, a power role of some kind not what I claimed it was, a power role exactly as I claimed it was, or am I a wolf?

 

You should have all the data you need about me now.

 

I am interested in sorting you villager, and your response seems to be so, but I need to be very clear and thorough.

[Eldrick4221]

Ok, so. Tinfoil that came to me while working.

 

Verb is a 3rd party, who's wincon is to win x gladiator matches.

 

Now then. Things we know. Verb had this ability. He was aware of what conditions had to be met in order to use it. He chose to do so when it was minutes before deadline, and he was a leading train. He chose to use it on Pizza.

 

Now then, speculation as to why Pizza. From what I understand, the point of this gladiator match is to survive. You choose someone that you expect to get less votes than, in order to win. He chose the person that he felt was the most scummy at the moment. Why did he not determine his choice by who he felt would be the most likely candidate for people to vote? Thane was the other leading train. If this was solely to save his own butt, he would have chosen Thane. Maybe he wasn't able to.

 

I still don't think Verb is mafia, but we have to consider he might not be town either.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Test test.

 

Site seems to be not posting anything I say.

[Askthepizzaguy]

There it goes.

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

So now I am opening a portal to the alternate parallel universe.

 

Step inside the portal for a moment with me.

 

In here, Andrej, you are a villager and I've suddenly become aware of that, and know it with certainty. You do not have to return this courtesy.

 

Who are Krak's wolf partners?

Snap read? You.

 

Reason being in the moment that Krak was coming under fire for his disconnected read you stepped in and declared it nothing more than villager derping and immediately turned the tides by voting one of his detractors. This is heavily associative and obviously only gains true merit in the event that Krak is a wolf with you.

 

Beyond that he has had next to zero interactions with anyone else due to his low volume. Besides me, he has only spoken with EP who is now a vetted Mason and Sili who is another one of my stronger villager reads. Those are literally the only notable interactions he has had this game outside of an offhand comment with Taborline offering help and the bumbling he did today with his entrance.

 

In short, he could be with anyone. At this point your defense is the most notable interaction in the event that he is a wolf.

 

 

This is both the easiest answer and the most non-answer answer one could give.

 

It's beyond lazy, and it's also wolfy.

 

All it does is hurdle the obstacle. It provides zero villagery thought process. There's no attempt here to even theorize or go back and re-read.

 

This reads like someone who has exact knowledge of part of the game. The part where they don't care who dies, as long as it isn't oneself or a teammate unless it is time to bus someone.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Guys, Andrej is a wolf.

 

This is essentially a fact at this point. What you get from today is a dead villager in Verbal, and a soon to be dead wolf in Andrej.

 

I've made it very clear why, if anyone has been following these posts.

 

I think Verbal is a villager, but I have no choice here.

 

Vote: Verbal

 

I still recommend we keep the vote tally close. If given the opportunity to snipe me, the wolf team absolutely will snipe me.

 

Since Andrej is outed, and I've cleared Krak and Thane, outing even one more wolf is absolutely crushing for village.

 

I am requesting more votes on myself. Please do this.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Verbal, in the time remaining in this game, please assist me in locating Andrej's likely wolf partners, and please analyze the game as best you can.

 

Let us not waste this opportunity to turn a dungheap of a bad lynch into an amazing outcome. Let us out more wolves, now.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Ok, so. Tinfoil that came to me while working.

 

Verb is a 3rd party, who's wincon is to win x gladiator matches.

 

Now then. Things we know. Verb had this ability. He was aware of what conditions had to be met in order to use it. He chose to do so when it was minutes before deadline, and he was a leading train. He chose to use it on Pizza.

 

Now then, speculation as to why Pizza. From what I understand, the point of this gladiator match is to survive. You choose someone that you expect to get less votes than, in order to win. He chose the person that he felt was the most scummy at the moment. Why did he not determine his choice by who he felt would be the most likely candidate for people to vote? Thane was the other leading train. If this was solely to save his own butt, he would have chosen Thane. Maybe he wasn't able to.

 

I still don't think Verb is mafia, but we have to consider he might not be town either.

 

This tinfoil hat is crazy, and creative.

 

I doubt it is the case, but I also see like zero motive for you to pull this out of your butt as a wolf, since it does nothing to advance your own win condition.

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

GLADIATOR BATTLE COUNT:

 

VERBAL (0/11):

 

PIZZA (1/11): Thane

 

NOT VOTING (20/20):

Hally, Sooh, Alot, Heart, Dice, Yates, Verbal, Talya, Eldrick, Leelou, Leelou, Krak, Taborline, Andrej, Alannalynn, Seph, EP, Tina, Cass, Pizza

 

VOTES ARE LOCKED

 

 

Still here I believe.  13 hours 20 minutes to deadline.

 

 

Keep an eye on the deadline and the tally itself.

 

I am trusting you to generate useful information out of this round and not let either the additional time or the temptation for the wolf team to lynch me to go to waste.

 

Even if I get lynched, if it makes a single wolf obvious, that's still 2 villagers known and 2 wolves outed for the price of one mistake lynch. How is that ever not a good trade?

[Darthe]

GLADIATOR BATTLE COUNT:

 

VERBAL (1/11): EP, Pizza

 

PIZZA (1/11): Thane

NOT VOTING (18/20):

Hally, Sooh, Alot, Heart, Dice, Yates, Verbal, Talya, Eldrick, Leelou, Leelou, Krak, Taborline, Andrej, Alannalynn, Seph, Tina, Cass

VOTES ARE LOCKED

 

Still here I believe. 6 hours 20 minutes to deadline.

[Eldrick4221]

 

The question is which one do we want to keep. I'm leaning verb, only because I'm familiar with how good of a player he is.

That was the whole point of my earlier post. Pizza is also an excellent player. Mafia Champion and all. Better than me, for sure. And he has claimed an OP JOAT role.

 

What do you make of his claim?

 

I did preface the post with the fact that I wasn't caught up. I didn't know about the claim yet.

[Sooh]

 

**snip**

 

Phrasing your village/village perfect knowledge as "I think" or "I believe" are simple and basic things that even a novice wolf understands to do.

Even if they're not always aware that they shouldn't reveal their perfect knowledge in any way to start off with.

 

Well all of that is good and basic knowledge, but that means you can pin TMI on any villager who happens to have good reads or just happen to be right about something.

 

 

**snip**

 

This is my process for not reading you as straight up scummy right now.
 
Your claim is a very elaborate claim, and it does have its traces in your posts.

Those traces can be faked, all you have to do is plan ahead. If I'm a wolf or even a vanilla villager I'm always planning my fake claims well in advance.
 

The only thing I think you didn't mention about your claim at the start of day was that you had Thane as a peeked villager.

It wasn't in your first reads. Not even as a breadcrumb.

You did warm up to him throughout the day, so the breadcrumbing began, but leaving him out completely in that first reads list is strange.

Of course it might be because Thane had done pretty much nothing up until that point in the game, so it was hard to justify him as a town read without giving away too much about your ability to peek, but yes...

I hadn't planned on claiming at all today. Thane and Krak were both under pressure for silly reasons.

Dying and flipping villager with investigative powers means I wouldn't have to make my peeks as part of my leans list at start of Day.

Veteran seer strategies involve not outright stating your peeks immediately, there's zero seer cover in this game.

Eventually due to the number of Krak votes and the vast amount of scumminess I saw in the thread, and due to the outside chance I could be protected tonight by another role, I claimed and also tested Verbal with a fake red / gut read.

If I was wrong about Verbal being scum, it VASTLY improves my survivability tonight.

If I was correct about Verbal being scum, it saves two villagers from the lynch and lynches a scum.

That is how I play.

And I could do this as a vanilla townie, you're right. But it involves a LOT of assumptions about the alignments of Krak and Thane, in a multiball game full of scums.

I don't think I draw a murder unless I'm deadly accurate as vanilla villager.

More likely this game I am actually the JOAT as claimed, and require protection tonight. Fakepeeking Verbal is the main reason why that is the case.

Spewing myself Not-Seer is not my goal as a vanilla townie. I want to draw that murder in that case.

Getting a wrong peek on Verbal drastically improves my night survivability as seer, yet still performs the function of defending both my peeks.

Now, Sooh, tell me whether I am a vanilla villager, a power role of some kind not what I claimed it was, a power role exactly as I claimed it was, or am I a wolf?

You should have all the data you need about me now.

I am interested in sorting you villager, and your response seems to be so, but I need to be very clear and thorough.

 

I'm trying to understand the sentence in bold. Would it not be in Town's interest to get your peeks in your reads list? Not necessarily at the start of Day, but at least throughout the day...??

 

I believe your claim then, as you have explained it... It's the only conclusion I can find after that.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Anyway - I'm gonna hush and let some of the quieter people come in here and talk for a bit. I'll be leaving for work soon anyway but I'll return tonight to read whatever new stuff there is.

 

Krak, if you're a villager then I am disappointed in you for your level of involvement this game.

 

Thane you too, especially since you were going to self vote and basically quit on your team.

 

This is another post which should make your skin crawl.

 

Shaming villagers is not finding wolves, and I mean that in every sense.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm trying to understand the sentence in bold. Would it not be in Town's interest to get your peeks in your reads list? Not necessarily at the start of Day, but at least throughout the day...??

 

I believe your claim then, as you have explained it... It's the only conclusion I can find after that.

You generally want to leave your peeks unknown to the wolves. Even they don't know you're a seer yet, so you want your peeks alive.

 

Stepping in to save them from the lynch was terrible, at that point, I felt like I was outed anyway.

 

So I just flat out claimed my two village peeks. Nothing more could be done to hide, and it would otherwise confuse the village.

[Sooh]

 

I'm trying to understand the sentence in bold. Would it not be in Town's interest to get your peeks in your reads list? Not necessarily at the start of Day, but at least throughout the day...??

 

I believe your claim then, as you have explained it... It's the only conclusion I can find after that.

You generally want to leave your peeks unknown to the wolves. Even they don't know you're a seer yet, so you want your peeks alive.

 

Stepping in to save them from the lynch was terrible, at that point, I felt like I was outed anyway.

 

So I just flat out claimed my two village peeks. Nothing more could be done to hide, and it would otherwise confuse the village.

 

Yes, but in terms of the village.. if you die and flip seer, the village has nothing to work with. That's what I mean... idk.. seems to me it would be a good thing to at least breadcrumb...