Faile

[Bobster]

OK what the hell. I've read the series only once but this is what I notced:

 

First of all, shes so damn jeleous of Perrin about Berelain and everyone else, and he has to apologize to her constantly.

 

Secondly, when she gets kidnapped by them Aiel she likes it when Roland (I think it was) slaps her bottom and pinches her. She flirts with him but is jeleous of Perrin.

 

Does anyone else get annoyed/mad with Faile?

[Guest cwestervelt]

I don't like Faile. Never did since the point where her and Perrin got hitched. Her jealousy is the primary reason.

 

However, you do her an injustice by implying that her actions toward Roland make her a hypocrite. Yes, she made a show of returning his advances when she realized that he was interested in her. She was attempting to recruit a potential ally for when she tried to escape. She had alterior motives that make any true interest questionable. There may have been a bit of Stockholm Syndrome (http://ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome) involved too.

[Bobster]

Yes, she wanted an ally to make her escape easier but I remember reading it ( forgot exactly where though ><) that she enjoyed his slaps and pinches (the pinching I think it was when she was being rescued by Roland from the collapsed biulding and slapping when she was on his shoulder..) And I'm not sure about this but didnt he also kiss her?

 

So, while she was in need for an ally she found pleasure in what he did.

[Axis]

There were subtle clues that commented on how she enjoyed Roland, but I don't think she would have taken him over Perrin. Had she met Roland before she knew Perrin, that may be a different story.

[trakand01]

She's your average high-maintenance woman. She wants attention, and I believe genuinely loves Perrin, but who doesnt want extra attention?!

[alienfreak29]

She's your average high-maintenance woman. She wants attention, and I believe genuinely loves Perrin, but who doesnt want extra attention?!

 

Nah...Faile is just another in a long line of whiny, gripey, grousing female RJ characters.

 

I doubt females in Rand land are ever normal women.

[reyler]

Yes' date=' she wanted an ally to make her escape easier but I remember reading it ( forgot exactly where though ><) that she enjoyed his slaps and pinches (the pinching I think it was when she was being rescued by Roland from the collapsed biulding and slapping when she was on his shoulder..) And I'm not sure about this but didnt he also kiss her?[/quote']

 

I think you're thinking of when she thought about wanting him to "play her like a drum" in WH while carrying her off to Malden. Which had more to do with the fact that she was naked and freezing and him spanking her to keep her from wriggling around on him was the only thing keeping her blood moving from place to place.

 

I think people get the wrong idea about Faile and her perceptions. She actually seems more like she has this terrible need to prove herself, in the Saldean way. Which led to her running away to become a Hunter instead of staying home and learning accounting. Which led to her hooking up with what she could tell was a legend in the making. Which led to her paranoia about Perrin having wandering eyes. She's got it in her head due to her culture that women have to be able to live up to their men. If she can't live up to Perrin, he might find someone else who can, is the way she sees it. Plus, when he doesn't even live up to himself, that really gets under her skin. Is this mindset a little self-centered? Yes, but that might have been part of the point of her being in Malden. Give her a chance to live up to herself, instead of her husband or her father. Granted she didn't do so well there, but still. And both Deira and Elyas explain to Perrin (and us) how Faile was raised to believe relationships between husband and wife should be. If, after reading what Elyas has to say on the subject in TPoD, you still don't at least understand where she's coming from, you're not paying attention. She's just really insecure. She's kind of an alt-universe Eowyn.

[Hannah Banana]

If I really believed Faile was insecure, I would maybe sympathize with her character. But it doesn't ring true to me. Either, because RJ didn't write her as an insecure character and the fans are just making it up as a way to defend her. Or he didn't write her foible very well, and it's not coming across to most of us (I say 'most of us', since there has not been a stream of people through here defending her honor).

 

As it is, I don't think she has any motivating factor that would necessarily spark massive inferiority issues. She's pretty, noble, second in line for a throne, rich, skilled in defending herself, etc. It's not like she had some sibling that was always outshining her, or something.

 

To my knowledge, none of her POVs have mentioned anything clearly self-deprecating. As in Faile sighed. If only her nose weren't so big, maybe Perrin would love her more. And I also don't remember Perrin smelling insecurity in her. Though I could be wrong on both points... I don't usually re-read those scenes.

 

So, no, I don't find her arrogance and jealousy to be overcompensation for her secret insecurity.

 

So, contrarily, if there were some basic psychological motivation that would have Perrin tie himself to such an arrogant, jealous woman, I would find their relationship more interesting. Maybe his mother was really domineering, so he was looking for the same thing in a wife. Or, maybe he had a boyhood crush on a woman with the similar personality of Faile and is living out his fantasies. I don't know. Something. As it stands, he is (was) a nice, quiet, gentle guy who gets saddled with a shrewish harridan who treats him bad. Opposites attacting because the author thought it would be funny. Like Mat and Tuon. Let's shackle the likeable male lead with the opposite kind of woman he desires/wants so that he can spend the rest of the books musing and complaining about his lot.

 

Wouldn't it have been much sweeter if gentle Perrin met this nice, shy girl who was kind and courageous (in a quiet way) and had inner strength... and then if SHE was kidnapped by the Shaido, we would all be rooting for Perrin to rescue her. Or is it just me? :?

[RobertAlexWillis]

I don't like Faile, but I like the fact that she's in the story. This is why: it makes it more like the real world.

 

If there were no "good" characters that got on my nerves, it would hardly be a believable story. If Faile were real, and we ever met, I would laugh in her face several times (and then probably run away from Perrin), but I think that she makes the story richer. Is her jealousy over Perrin irrational and overdone? Yep. Are there people who really act that way? Oh my yes.

 

And I think Jordan has made good use of her and Perrin in the story. The more I read it, the less drawn out the whole capture and rescue thing seems. I think it felt longer to us because it took him 4 books to write it, and we had a long wait between books. Taken within the story's timeline, I don't think it was drawn out at all.

[reyler]

As it is' date=' I don't think she has any motivating factor that would necessarily spark massive inferiority issues. She's pretty, noble, second in line for a throne, rich, skilled in defending herself, etc. It's not like she had some sibling that was always outshining her, or something.[/quote']

 

I'll bet you know at least one girl who seems like she has everything going for her but acts like she doesn't. Anorexia, for instance, doesn't occur in a vacuum. She got saddled with the Saldean equivalent of naming your daughter Paris, and her father, regardless of his love for her, thinks she's a wimp. I would think she'd have something to prove. Insecurity is more than just "I'm so ugly", it can simply be how you're conditioned to think about yourself. I've spent the last fifteen years dealing with an inferiority complex, it's not always that conscious or obvious. Maybe I should have used a different word. I think she's very concerned with proving to everybody else, and especially herself, that she's not a Zarine.

[Iceman]

Is there justification in her upbringing for the way she thinks/acts... maybe. Does it make the story more believable... probably.

 

But She's just so annoying! I just wanna take her and... **makes a "Grrr" face and grings his thumb into his palm** and then take her little head and... **jabs his fingertip and thumb together repeatedly**.

 

Ya know what I mean?! :D

[vegetattack15]

Well put RAW. Im starting to think RJ put Faile in there so we could have a "good" character to dislike, but who do you think is the counterpart?

 

Personally Im a big fan of Semi, but I don't really think he wrote her to be a fan favorite. Maybe Im wrong. Which "evil" character do you think RJ set up for us to like?

[courtneysfoster]

I tend to put all of the female characters in the series within the context RJ set up. 3000 years of a society under matriarchal rule will hone all kinds of undesirable elements in the genders.

 

It would have been just as bad (but different) under male rule.

 

Women in this series are born and bread to believe that they are to be obeyed and are the ruling class. And that's generally speaking without even getting into the noble/royalty aspect of things.

 

Faile just fits the same societal mold.

 

Overall I make allowances for this on my like/dislike meter and really enjoy the characters RJ has created. Both loving them and hating them. :)

 

~Courtney

[Hannah Banana]

Sometimes when you get on a tangent, you forget things you wanted to add.

 

RAW pointed out one thing I was going to mention. I may dislike Faile, but it is good to have those "love to hate" characters in the books.

 

I just like to play with different scenarios of "what could have been" if any of the ta'veren ended up with actual sane lady loves.

[Hannah Banana]

*doublepost*

 

I also think it's interesting that at different points throughout the story, sometimes within the same book, the majority of us will swing to hating a character, then not hating her, then liking her, then hating her.

 

For instance, Elayne. I liked her when they were traveling with Luca's show, and after she arrived at Salidar (before Mat came). But in Ebou Dar she was just irritating. And now in Caemlyn she can be really darned hateful.

 

I like Faile OK in the "save the Two Rivers" plotline. Hated her when she and Perrin traveled to Cairhien to be with Rand (or was it Caemlyn? who can keep track.) Hated her when Perrin & Co. started out to destroy the Shaido. Didn't mind her when she was captive as gai'shain. But swung back to hating her for letting Rolan die without even saying, like... Hey Perrin, that guy was gonna help us.

 

Poor Rolan.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I just like to play with different scenarios of "what could have been" if any of the ta'veren ended up with actual sane lady loves.

 

There are sane women?

[vegetattack15]

I definitely agree with that (except I hate Faile at all times) I think Rolan would have been a great addition to Perrin's entourage.

[Hannah Banana]

There are sane women?

 

Well' date=' yes, there's... um. And what about... ? Oh, and don't forget, er... um, old what's-her-name... :| [/color']

 

I definitely agree with that (except I hate Faile at all times) I think Rolan would have been a great addition to Perrin's entourage.

 

Yeah! Like, Gaul v. 1.1! And then Perrin could be jealous of Rolan, and Faile can be jealous of Berelain, and it will be like "The Days of Our Lives."

[Elgee]

i'm a very bossy female, and even i want to smack Faile upside the ear ! lol.

and as for Perrin ... what a woosified wet toast woman's man ! ... but that's just my opinion

:twisted:

[vegetattack15]

Wow Elgee, on most of your posts, you say exactly the point I want to get across, but better.

 

What did happen to Perrin post Faile anyway? He used to be cool, he's kind of like that one buddy you have that was awesome and always there for you, but then met that bloody witch of a girlfriend. Now he spends every second tending her needs, and when he does get away, all he wants to talk about is how great his girl is.

[courtneysfoster]

I also think it's interesting that at different points throughout the story, sometimes within the same book, the majority of us will swing to hating a character, then not hating her, then liking her, then hating her.

 

This is something RJ is particularly good at pulling off. I've never experienced and author doing this so well as he does. There are even contexts where I'm all for Nynaeve!

 

And all of that while still being very true to the character. That's the part that amazes me.

 

~Courtney

[Elgee]

at vegetattack15

and here i was thinking the same thing about you !

 

i totally agree with both of you, veg and courtney (forgive the shortening of names please ... u may call me LG in return, if u like :) )

 

i feel sorry for poor Perrin ... as if he was a male friend of mine who fell for a girl i reaaaaly disliked. i also worry about him ... he seems to be verging on the point of actually becoming a Darkfriend - i'm almost sure he would become one in a heartbeat if it would save Faile from some dire fate. Men can be such dumb blind fools ! ... not that i empathise with Nyn in the least. Now THAT girl could surely have done with a few years as a novice to teach her to THINK ! (she seems to only open her mouth to change feet)

 

*has fond fantasies of get her hands on Nyn and beating some sense into the fool girl*

 

:twisted:

[courtneysfoster]

Perrin is too thick headed for his own good. He practically had it spelled out for him in his meeting with the in-laws on how to handle Faile.

 

If there was nothing to apologize for then he shouldn't apologize and tell her to STFU. That's what she wants him to do. In her mind if he jumped down her throat about the matter with Berelain, then it would be proof there is nothing to worry about.

 

But that's counter intuitive for most men. It took me more than one reading of that section of the series to understand Faile's character.

 

None of that is an excuse; just an explanation. :)

 

~Courtney

[Hannah Banana]

Well, of course it is all about how Faile expects her man to be. She makes no provision for compromising and taking into consideration the way HE was raised and his personality.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Well, of course it is all about how Faile expects her man to be. She makes no provision for compromising and taking into consideration the way HE was raised and his personality.

 

Duh. She's a woman.

 

-runs and hides-