Forsaken and Dreadlord Blunders at the Last Battle

[Azrayne]

Lol. What's wrong with speculation? I mean realistically, how much else is there to talk about? The series is over, the credits have ended, the curtains have closed - you can only have so many arguments about how much Elayne sucked or which of the main characters was the coolest or which book was your favorite, but it's interesting to think about the things which could have been different/better, or the really interesting aspects of the world which are only hinted at.

 

But, for whatever reason, people interpret that as a direct attack on the series and their attachment to it, which I don't understand. Saying "hey wouldn't X have been an interesting way for things to play out" or "I wonder what the deal with Y was" or "Z really didn't make much sense, what's up there?" isn't a personal attack on anyone and it isn't a call for a WoT Book Burning Rally. It's just some interesting conversation (and maybe polite debate) about the wider possibilities of the WoT series and the world it's set in.

 

So, w/e.

[Sabio]

No one takes it as an attack on the book but if you say X would of been great it then  stands to reason others will say this is why X wouldn't of worked. 

 

To say the Forsaken should of gotten a hold of gunpowder, or was naïve of them not to.  Others simply point out not even Mat with his military genius saw the fireworks in war terms, and he even used them to blow a hole in a wall.  But he never thought of them on a grand scale. 

[gia]

What keeps me wondering is why did Elan want to die so much...what kind of pain does it take for one to want to die so bad to be willing to distroy entire world in the process just to make sure said one stays dead for sure....I'd love to find out about his reasons for his death wish, we know that his logic lead him to belive that this was the only way but why? what was his reasons?

[Lothlan]

@gia

I'm pretty sure that it has to be with the true power, who consumes his soul (something worse than death). And also, he is mad.

[Sabio]

@Gia, my take on it seems to be he is tired of the never ending struggle and doing it over and over,  He just wanted to die and make it last forever.  Not necessarily pain but just tired of the never ending battle.  I got the feeling the world he didn't really care about, but if the entire world had to die for him to get the final death, so be it.  BS made mention Ishy is one of the few people to be linked to another.  Ishy and LTT are linked, like Briggete and the dude she always hooks up with. He might not always fight for the shadow, sometimes he could fight for the light but in some ways he has very little choice in matters.  As Lothian said the TP insanity wasn't helping things either.

[Lothlan]

@Gia, my take on it seems to be he is tired of the never ending struggle and doing it over and over,  He just wanted to die and make it last forever.  Not necessarily pain but just tired of the never ending battle.  I got the feeling the world he didn't really care about, but if the entire world had to die for him to get the final death, so be it.  BS made mention Ishy is one of the few people to be linked to another.  Ishy and LTT are linked, like Briggete and the dude she always hooks up with. He might not always fight for the shadow, sometimes he could fight for the light but in some ways he has very little choice in matters.  As Lothian said the TP insanity wasn't helping things either.

Yeap, i keep with your answer too is so much better than mine :)

[mb]

I recall from some class (I think in high school) that suicidal people do not want to die but want escape.

That could be similar to Ishamael/Moridin.

[gia]

Ohh, I'm pretty sure about it - being tired of the never ending repetition of  the very same story even if in its different variation - that speaks to me and I could relate to it (the prospect of eternal life seems just way to overwhealming and scary to me). And if you are trapped in life that is being relived over and over again without any chance to change anything major, to avoid same mistakes - because well - its a wheel, a cycle and therefore being inside it you cannot change it and you are forced to keep reliving your life over and over again -   and being aware of it....that surely must make him feel screwed....What I would love to is to know his story and where this feeling coming from, this realisation, this logical conclusion about it, this pessimistic view on things - it does require certain mindset  (we really should have stories for each forsaken from AOL to know them better and know their stories to really understand their reasons). 

 

Though I have one conclusion myself - thinking too much is nowhere near to anything good ;) *tries to stop thinking...tires*

 

Anyway, all of this make him really interesting character for me, one that was so shamefuly underused. His darkness, his philosophy makes him my favorite character (yes, I like the baddies :P). Its too bad that him and other forsaken were only more of a background to the story than actual part of it. Id love to have more of the dark side than just light...why ohh why light always must be the one to win, must be the one to write main story about? It just doesn't give the justice to the baddies who are way more intresting than the good guys ;) I wish there were at least separate stories from AOL about our beloved baddies :P

[Sabio]

True he has very little choice but BS did say since the dragon has gone over to the shadow that it stands to reason Ishy has gone to the light.  So he does have a little freedom since everytime he doesn't have to go bad. But in the end LTT and him will end up central figures reliving this over and over.