[Basic] Lolcats: zOMGby Apocalypse - Game Over - Town Win

[Kaylee]

It was fun Red thanks. Sorry you were sick.

[Nynaeve]

Honestly? I think Verbal and I were doing a great job at appearing townie. Unfortunately Tina has a thing about viewing him... plus Town had a doc and a cop.... we had no NKs, we were only 1 vs 9 townies... and we were the only ones with the ability to recruit, ie recruitment dies with us.... which basically left Sili stranded. 

 

So in a game that is essentially composed of mislynches alone (cause we had no NKs)....and town having two powerful PRs... I feel that we were playing to lose the entire time. I don't feel that the balance was there. I think that we should have AT LEAST  been made a godfather to counter all the perks town were getting. Considering we had a numbers disadvantage, lack of any PRs short of recruitment (while town could both cop us and block us) and having the recruiting limited to us alone. But w/e *shrugs*  I don't have any regrets from my part.

[Kaylee]

If it weren't for Tina's peek we had you down as town. As did others I know.

[Nynaeve]

In every game I played even if scum dies early and only one member of the scum remains he still has a chance of winning, even if it's a small one. This game was not constructed well... essentially the second we died our recruits would be stuck. Which is what happened with Sili. Even if we lasted longer and had two recruits, it wouldn't have made a difference. Because our recruits couldn't recruit anymore.... so both the cop and doc would be unlynchable and with every passing day the cop would clear more townies or find more cult. So I don't blame Sili for what he did. I would have put an end to the game too seeing as there was no chance of winning. Why waste everyone's time?

 

So yeah, we should have been a godfather, so we can avoid detection for a while. Or alternatively, the recruitment ability should have been extended to our recruits upon our death. Either of these options would have worked in making the game fair. Cause the way it is right now is not fair at all, imo.

[Nynaeve]

What would have happened if we got lynched D1? Game would have ended. That doesn't make any sort of sense.

[Nynaeve]

I had a good time playing the game. Had fun with Verbal. And I honestly believed that there was a scummy or a SK out there because it didn't make sense to me that we'd be 1:9 ratio. Oh well.

 

 

Regardless, thanks for the game Red. I hope you feel better soon.

[Sili Quirrels]

Godfather would probably h ave been unfair, what with no one knowing it was a cult game. Basically getting 2 votes a night (one effective kill and adding the player to your team), and being able to convert the seer.

 

Getting the convert transfered might have also been too much since there would always be 2 mafia to deal with unless a succesful protect goes off.

[Sili Quirrels]

I continued the game up until the point I realized I couldn't get the seer lynched. If I could get the seer lynch there was still the possible miracle of concinving everyone there was a cult and a godfather or something along those lines. Alas.

[Nynaeve]

Town had two PRs. We had no NKs and a recruitment that dies with us. It wasn't balanced.

 

 

As far as Godfather goes, people can rant all they want... but if there's a cop in the picture, then there CAN be a godfather. There isn't anything unfair about it. It balances things out. The cop could still find anyone we recruited so it's not like it would be useless. And we should be found by proper scumhunting and analyzing the game. You can't expect to be given all scum/cult on a silver platter by the cop.

[Kaylee]

I continued the game up until the point I realized I couldn't get the seer lynched. If I could get the seer lynch there was still the possible miracle of concinving everyone there was a cult and a godfather or something along those lines. Alas.

People were starting to doubt a doc this game so we might've been lynched.

[Sili Quirrels]

If you can't rely on the seer though, there's no point in having one. Not that I object to not having one, but if there is one in the game it should be relevant.

 

Ah, and about lynching converts. IF a convert is lynched, that's still good for you. Less good than a mislynch onto a villager, but even if they're lynched, the seer is outed and you can convert someone to replace the person you lost, establishing the same number of players in a smaller roster.

[Sili Quirrels]

 

I continued the game up until the point I realized I couldn't get the seer lynched. If I could get the seer lynch there was still the possible miracle of concinving everyone there was a cult and a godfather or something along those lines. Alas.

People were starting to doubt a doc this game so we might've been lynched.

Before I was peeked?

[Nynaeve]

You can rely on the cop on any of the recruits, though. That's the point. And if you viewed 3 people as town... then two of them are town. Cop should HELP scumhunt. Not do all the work. Otherwise there's no actual game play and what's the fun in that??

[Kaylee]

Yes Sili before you were lynched. It was D3 with no deaths and they didn't believe we did that well.

[Kaylee]

You can rely on the cop on any of the recruits, though. That's the point. And if you viewed 3 people as town... then two of them are town. Cop should HELP scumhunt. Not do all the work. Otherwise there's no actual game play and what's the fun in that??

agreed

[Nynaeve]

 

I continued the game up until the point I realized I couldn't get the seer lynched. If I could get the seer lynch there was still the possible miracle of concinving everyone there was a cult and a godfather or something along those lines. Alas.

People were starting to doubt a doc this game so we might've been lynched.

 

 

I thought you guys were lying. Basically once I realized that Verbal was right and there prolly weren't any scummies out there... and that we were the only faction.... it didn't make sense for there to be a doc... no NKs and all....

[Kaylee]

Yeah we were beginning to wonder if something was going on.

[Sili Quirrels]

You can rely on the cop on any of the recruits, though. That's the point. And if you viewed 3 people as town... then two of them are town. Cop should HELP scumhunt. Not do all the work. Otherwise there's no actual game play and what's the fun in that??

Lynching recruits doesn't matter. The only way for town to win is to lynch the cult leader.

Scum can win off 1 mislynch and 6 lynches in this set up.

 

I don't think 3 players semi-cleared by day 4 can be qualified as helping in a game this small. The game is over by day 4 with 2 scum alive.

[Sili Quirrels]

Yes Sili before you were lynched. It was D3 with no deaths and they didn't believe we did that well.

Nonsense, it would have taken a day, and tina probably would hav eviewed me anyway, and even if tina didn't view me and instead viewed dice (?), then i would have been viewed after your death. No way out quick enough because I couldn't lynch Tina without lynching you :(

[Nolder]

Wow this was a really bizarre game.

It's not basic imo and was set up for town to get stomped on...but luck and skill turned it around to be an impossible game for scum to win.

 

Like all the cues pointed towards a normal town vs mafia game. Doc, cop, nothing odd about Nyn/Verbs role description. This should be have been an easy game to win as scum because town was busy hunting mafia not cult. I wouldn't even have expected a cult, they're damn awful for learning because alignment changes can be really confusing for new players. But not having a kill and lynching the recruiter D2 really turned the game on it's head.

 

Yeah...this is why I'm in favor of open setups for basic games. This COULD have been a straightforward game even with cult but instead it was really confusing. This is also a good example of a game that would have worked well as a Standard game instead of Basic. The expectations would have been different and people would have been thinking cult as a possibility after maybe 1 or 2 nights of no kills.

 

Anyway thank you for running it Red, I had fun except at the very end there.

And good game everyone.

[Sili Quirrels]

Honestly.

 

I play the game to learn more about the players, not the mechanics. I would rather more games were open setup.

[Nynaeve]

 

You can rely on the cop on any of the recruits, though. That's the point. And if you viewed 3 people as town... then two of them are town. Cop should HELP scumhunt. Not do all the work. Otherwise there's no actual game play and what's the fun in that??

Lynching recruits doesn't matter. The only way for town to win is to lynch the cult leader.

Scum can win off 1 mislynch and 6 lynches in this set up.

 

I don't think 3 players semi-cleared by day 4 can be qualified as helping in a game this small. The game is over by day 4 with 2 scum alive.

 

 

This game was essentially over on N1.  :P

[Nynaeve]

I'm sorry if I expect townies to be able to scumhunt and not have to be spoon fed alignments *shrugs*

[Sili Quirrels]

For the record, I don't mind games without seers. They're probably the funnest.

 

On the other hand the worst games are the games in which there's a seer and a godfather that makes the seer extrenuous, which leads to more focus on mechanics than strong play. And it all get's muddled.

[Nynaeve]

Sili, another thing I wanted to say earlier and forgot. You say that having a godfather would have made the results unreliable. But just as easily we could have recruited people who have been copped, making those reads redundant as well. 

 

Also I was pretty surprised when our flip didn't indicate that we were cult. It should have.