[Advanced] The Scouring of the Shire - Game Over

Sili Quirrels · January 13, 2015

that was a brutal death scene.

Nolder · January 13, 2015

I'm like deliriously tired I don't even know how I wrote that.

Nynaeve · January 13, 2015

Tina aggressive in the beginning looks good for her.

Not very sure why a couple of people are suspecting Red here. I don't see the "hedging" in his post.

Kinda contradictory here. On one hand you're giving Tina brownie points for being aggressive... but what she was aggressive about was Red, which you're saying you 'don't get' and disagree with people's suspicion of her.

Eh.

What? Talking about Tina's meta doesn't mean that i agree or disagree with her.

You pointed out that her being all aggressive was a good sign meta wise even though you disagree with the content of her posts (ie her tunneling on Red). So what is your current read of her?

Pralaya · January 13, 2015

Town reading her based on her meta.

Red2111 · January 13, 2015

Sili's lynch has blown this game wide open imo he was obv sloppy scum tho *nods* especially with the fabricating rules last bit.

Red2111 · January 13, 2015

lock-anti town on Arsis

this is not a finder claim, i'm not a finder. hence the ISO in spoiler tags

tl;dr case synopsis

1. half-assed CC lacks conviction of a true CC and comes off as antagonistic and scummy rather than a true CC

2. lack of legit scum hunting = scum tale #1 (tunnel focus on 1 person and refusal to case others)

3. defended Sili pre & post reveal

4. selective tunneling (FoSing me over my unvote on Sili yet saying nothing about Zashara's unvote) and taking my bait on my unvote

5. defense of Sili and attack on me for my pressure over Sili's character reveal.

I eat 6 meals for breakfast
1. Semen doesn't count as a "meal."
2. You should probably stop voting for the Shirriff.

Just saying.

Yes, it does.

No, you're not.

he votes yates and gives a half assed CC on Yate's claim. this is the extent of his push. it comes off as more antagonistic than true CCing. if he was a townie and CCing a false claim i'd expect him to either remain silent (which is the smart thing to do as a townie) or to be more "balls-to-the-walls" about it

comes off as nothing more than an attempt to try and discredit the claim to set up a lynch rather than a LLL thing.

Also Red's list was extremly unimpressive.

less commentary from the peanut gallery and more actual game play

kaythnxbye

beat the grass to startle the snakes. its a tactic. you know what this is, stop playing coy *thwap*

http://changingminds.org/disciplines/warfare/36_strategems/36_stratagems_13.htm
A reaction fish, then?

not always but sometimes. its more than just reactions and fishing for reactions and jump starting the game. gives good info but sometimes is done haphazardly or by a non-skilled person can royally screw the town (or blow up in a scums face)

I voted who I think it scum. Would it help if I made a big list with 90% of the game as null?

he's tunneling in on Yates, a claimed power role. and refuses to multi-task with scum hunting. scum tale #1 is focus tunneling, with the aim of discrediting any claimed power role and not making more than one case to avoid messing up (ie: less cases = being able to keep the lies straight)

We have about 1 hour 40 minutes to kill someone.

I do know over at Jetnation that Nolder DID NOT mod kill anyone when we could not reach consensus. He just let the night carry through.

@ Nolder. Should we expect the same. Bub?
Isn't this hybrid hammer? Whoever had the most votes goes.

whats your thoughts on Sili?

Sili is acting like I expect him to from the few games I've played with him. There really hasn't been enough gameplay day 1.

defense of Sili here

I'm still happy with my vote. I'd also vote for Red.

Why? U don't like vocal townies?

Didn't like how easily you went along with sili and the no lynch vote was silly.

Zashara (is it okay if i call you Zari? ) unvoted as well, yet Arsis focuses on my un-vote and says nothing about her. he tunnels on me, who was most vocal on Sili and lead Sili's lynch.

this is selective tunneling. i dislike selective tunneling

also - it should be apparent at this point that i was baiting with my unvote. i didn't buy Sili's "tone read" crap, was on the fence about his role reveal. thats why i unvoted and asked for a character reveal at the same time. if i believed him 100% or still didn't suspect him, i wouldn't have pressured for a character reveal.

i wanted to see who would jump on me for my unvote (especially with me being the lead push on Sili's wagon)

No lynch makes sense between two claims this close to deadline.

Which is why I asked Sili about his character. I think character claims will be more info than role claims in this game tbh, given nols scene.

Yeah? All I see from you is stuff that helps mafia. Role/character fishing voting no lynch.

[uNVOTE] [V] RED [/V]

false accusation of role/character fishing at me as reason for his vote switch.

a fish is underhanded with wiggle room to say "no i wasn't asking for a reveal". mine was a direct question, less fishing and more sludge hammer.

his reaction to my pressure for a character reveal from Sili is also FoS worthy, as its a defense of Sili. in hind sight, we see that a character reveal gives us much more info alignment wise than a role reveal. it also made Sili, now confirmed scum, nervous enough to make up a rule as to why he couldn't character reveal.

Arsis attacked the one person pressuring Sili to character reveal (which would have been the nail in his coffin)

Post reveal? Lmfao. Nothing has changed. Sili is being sili and that's not enough to vote him day 1. I don't believe him but that's not really important.

again he's defending against Sili's lynch.

Yates · January 13, 2015

Nice work, Red. Good luck tonight. If I were the type of person who had a Punisher costume in my closet, liked to play dress up at night, and owned numerous BFG's, I'd vig the crap out of Arsis tonight. Just saying.

Red2111 · January 13, 2015

Yates i'm not long for this world xD so i might as well be like Miley Cyrus and come @ the scum like a wrecking ball *grins*

2 or 3 more ISO's incoming btw

Yates · January 13, 2015

I'm going to find out tonight if Krak kills...

Nynaeve · January 13, 2015

lock-anti town on Arsis

this is not a finder claim, i'm not a finder. hence the ISO in spoiler tags

tl;dr case synopsis

1. half-assed CC lacks conviction of a true CC and comes off as antagonistic and scummy rather than a true CC

2. lack of legit scum hunting = scum tale #1 (tunnel focus on 1 person and refusal to case others)

3. defended Sili pre & post reveal

4. selective tunneling (FoSing me over my unvote on Sili yet saying nothing about Zashara's unvote) and taking my bait on my unvote

5. defense of Sili and attack on me for my pressure over Sili's character reveal.

I eat 6 meals for breakfast
1. Semen doesn't count as a "meal."
2. You should probably stop voting for the Shirriff.

Just saying.

Yes, it does.

No, you're not.

he votes yates and gives a half assed CC on Yate's claim. this is the extent of his push. it comes off as more antagonistic than true CCing. if he was a townie and CCing a false claim i'd expect him to either remain silent (which is the smart thing to do as a townie) or to be more "balls-to-the-walls" about it

comes off as nothing more than an attempt to try and discredit the claim to set up a lynch rather than a LLL thing.

Also Red's list was extremly unimpressive.

less commentary from the peanut gallery and more actual game play

kaythnxbye

beat the grass to startle the snakes. its a tactic. you know what this is, stop playing coy *thwap*

http://changingminds.org/disciplines/warfare/36_strategems/36_stratagems_13.htm

A reaction fish, then?

not always but sometimes. its more than just reactions and fishing for reactions and jump starting the game. gives good info but sometimes is done haphazardly or by a non-skilled person can royally screw the town (or blow up in a scums face)

I voted who I think it scum. Would it help if I made a big list with 90% of the game as null?

he's tunneling in on Yates, a claimed power role. and refuses to multi-task with scum hunting. scum tale #1 is focus tunneling, with the aim of discrediting any claimed power role and not making more than one case to avoid messing up (ie: less cases = being able to keep the lies straight)

We have about 1 hour 40 minutes to kill someone.

I do know over at Jetnation that Nolder DID NOT mod kill anyone when we could not reach consensus. He just let the night carry through.

@ Nolder. Should we expect the same. Bub?

Isn't this hybrid hammer? Whoever had the most votes goes.

whats your thoughts on Sili?

Sili is acting like I expect him to from the few games I've played with him. There really hasn't been enough gameplay day 1.

defense of Sili here

I'm still happy with my vote. I'd also vote for Red.

Why? U don't like vocal townies?

Didn't like how easily you went along with sili and the no lynch vote was silly.

Zashara (is it okay if i call you Zari? ) unvoted as well, yet Arsis focuses on my un-vote and says nothing about her. he tunnels on me, who was most vocal on Sili and lead Sili's lynch.

this is selective tunneling. i dislike selective tunneling

also - it should be apparent at this point that i was baiting with my unvote. i didn't buy Sili's "tone read" crap, was on the fence about his role reveal. thats why i unvoted and asked for a character reveal at the same time. if i believed him 100% or still didn't suspect him, i wouldn't have pressured for a character reveal.

i wanted to see who would jump on me for my unvote (especially with me being the lead push on Sili's wagon)

No lynch makes sense between two claims this close to deadline.

Which is why I asked Sili about his character. I think character claims will be more info than role claims in this game tbh, given nols scene.

Yeah? All I see from you is stuff that helps mafia. Role/character fishing voting no lynch.

[uNVOTE] [V] RED [/V]

false accusation of role/character fishing at me as reason for his vote switch.

a fish is underhanded with wiggle room to say "no i wasn't asking for a reveal". mine was a direct question, less fishing and more sludge hammer.

his reaction to my pressure for a character reveal from Sili is also FoS worthy, as its a defense of Sili. in hind sight, we see that a character reveal gives us much more info alignment wise than a role reveal. it also made Sili, now confirmed scum, nervous enough to make up a rule as to why he couldn't character reveal.

Arsis attacked the one person pressuring Sili to character reveal (which would have been the nail in his coffin)

Post reveal? Lmfao. Nothing has changed. Sili is being sili and that's not enough to vote him day 1. I don't believe him but that's not really important.

again he's defending against Sili's lynch.

I agree with a lot of your points. I will add that I thought Arsis accusing you of easily going along with Sili's train and later voting you for it was laughable, You initiated and led the train, explaining your reasoning. So this whole push looked pretty bad for him. I also thought that the unvote and no lynch vote made sense considering the situation. ie two of the leading trains containing un-CCed PRs so close to the deadline. If I were around at deadline and my vote was on Sili, I prolly would have done the same. So Arsis pushing this angle by claiming it was a lame move reeked too.

And as an added note:

Rules

3. Character claiming is not allowed.

Yates · January 13, 2015

Nyn. Tell me the truth. Are you buddying Red right now?

Red2111 · January 13, 2015

heavy scum lean on Tina. ie: needs more pressure imo most of this case involves her hyper-tunnel-focus on me. which comes off as OMGUS casing on Tina rather than legit casing to outsiders. the case split into two categories: Non-Red crap (NRC) & Red crap (RC), this way people can see she is scummy outside of the precieved WMFM (why me fry me) OMGUSy stuff

tl;dr

NRC centered casing

1. attempt to set up a puppeteering move on Yates claim

2. hyper-tunneling on 1 person

3. statement that nothing happened in 5 pages of game play (we had a claim and a CC at this point) comes off as her distancing herself from it.

4. hardcore pushing a case on someone without voting them. states she doesn't want to see me lynched, but is pushing hard to get her casing to gain traction.

5. how she acts when her push on me goes no where. its like: hard push, people side against her, she loses steam, trys to save face by claiming it wasn't a legit case but beating the grass, then lurks after trying to distance from her previous push.

6. how quickly she abandoned her "beating the grass". a townie that beats the grass doesn't put all of their eggs in one basket and abandon ship into lurk mode when it falls through. they switch gears and have a back up plan.

7. promises a re-read, never gives one

8. echos others "meta reasons" in regards to ignoring Yates

9. says she realizes what the yates vs arsis thing is, comments about yates , neglects to comment about arsis and fence sits on the entire thing while echoing others thoughts on it

10. goes to bed without voting knowing she'll be gone for deadline while a claimed power role is the lead vote.

RC centered casing

1. main push centered on a joke vote

2. trying to case and FoS using very dated meta as a basis

3. gets FoS's about her case on me and starts to pull a 180

4. the "I´m not eager to see you lynched (as you can see I´m not even voting you). I´m posting my thoughts" line is contradictory to her actions. post thoughts =/= being persistent in pressuring one person and hyper-tunneling on them.

Checking in. Yates sounds unnaturally like Yates. Let me guess - scum?

What do you mean? I don´t understand.

this, is her only time getting close to touching on Yate's claim. its obv what pral was saying; i said the same thing in regaurds to Yates but in different words.

i dislike this probing, its not genuine and comes off as a way to hedge someone else into attacking Yates claim so she work it from the shadows.

So Red voted Krak, Krak never mentioned that vote and Red never commented on the absence of a comment.¹ That´s not how I remember the bulldog playing.²

here she starts in on her hyper-tunnel on me. theres two parts of focus on this quote

1. she is basing her pressure on me and push on me over a joke vote. there is also a dual FoS in here

FoS 1 - Red for not commenting & FoS 2 - Krak for not commenting on my joke vote.

2. she brings up out-dated meta as a basis for why she's FoSing this. trying to push me into a corner, trying to get me to emo-react as everyone knows my feelings about meta-casing, and trying to build pressure on me.

So Red voted Krak, Krak never mentioned that vote and Red never commented on the absence of a comment. That´s not how I remember the bulldog playing.

And then she doesn´t comment on this either. This is all:

I never hide behind meta. I just let my freak flag fly.If I *were* hiding behind meta, how would that be alignment indicative to you, though?

The Lady doth protest too much

So Red voted Krak, Krak never mentioned that vote and Red never commented on the absence of a comment. That´s not how I remember the bulldog playing.

Is this commentary on both of us or just Red?

It was aimed at Red but you are more than welcome to talk about it.

more FoSing @ me based on out-dated meta.

her response to Krak gives me the ebby-jeebies as well. comes off like a spider inviting a fly into its web tbh

Scum must be skerd of just my presence to try running up a wagon like this on.

For reals tho, been like 6mos since I played and bull dog won't be bulldogged into bull dogging. PM Mr she the real gam play starts with a legit wagon and Yates stops with his obv baiting

Ehm... I think something is wrong with this or I´m just too tired to understand it.

The fact is that you voted Krak but didn´t bother that he never commented on that. Then you never commented on my post about you. And now you don´t want to talk about it but get stuck on the word bulldog.

And does the last sentence mean that we don´t have any real game play before we get a wagon? I don´t agree.

continues to push me on my out-dated meta

then she misreps what i said in her last sentence

I´m interested in you because I noticed something that I thought were worth looking into. (We are on page 5 so not much have happened so far.) You voted someone that never responded and you didn´t notice that. ¹

You don´t think you would find mafia by questioning Krak? How is that? Do you know that he is not mafia?²

I´m not eager to see you lynched (as you can see I´m not even voting you). I´m posting my thoughts.³

1. assertion that the joke vote and lack of a response by either parties was the only thing worth looking into in 5 pages. even though there was a role claim and a CC. i dislike this blatant need to distance herself from the Arsis vs Yates thing.

2. more misrep; i've previously explained why in my actual response to Tina.

3. her actions contradict her words. posting thoughts is one thing, but every post except her first 2 is directed at pressuring me and trying to get others to FoS me. she's trying to build a case from straws and trying to get traction. post thoughts =/= being persistent in pressuring one person and tunneling on them

I´m interested in you because I noticed something that I thought were worth looking into. (We are on page 5 so not much have happened so far.) You voted someone that never responded and you didn´t notice that.

You don´t think you would find mafia by questioning Krak? How is that? Do you know that he is not mafia?

I´m not eager to see you lynched (as you can see I´m not even voting you). I´m posting my thoughts.

my vote was an obvious joke, as Nyn pointed out.

i saw your pushing on me as an attempt to get the game started, but got annoyed when you kept pushing after not getting anything from the push and think its starting come off less as trying to start the game and more as trying to nudge a train and trying to box me into a play style corner

that said, townie points for a legit attempt to get the game started beyond D1 spam (or in this case D1 quiet)

I´m not seeing any train and I doubt I could force you to play one way or another even if I wanted to.

Thanks for the townie points. :D I did try but noone bit on it. I think the only one commenting at all was Nyn.

i mention "looked like you were trying to beat the grass" and Tina latches onto it with a "Yeah thats what i was doing" and uses this as a pivot point for her backing off my case.

i laid the bait, she saw a way to back off me without drawing too much fire, and she latched onto it. which only affirms to me that this was nothing more than an attempt to start an early case and wagon on me to get me out of the way; rather than legit beating the grass.

a townie that beats the grass doesn't put all of their eggs in one basket and abandon ship into lurk mode when it falls through. they switch gears and have a back up plan.

Oh, didn´t realise that the deadline is today. I have no idea on who to vote. I´ll have to re-read quickly before it´s time to sleep.

Red - again, I point out things that I see. You never know where it will lead. It was the only thing I saw that was worth mentioning at the time. The fact that you never answered made me continue. As you surely understand I also hoped to get some others reactions but there were non. I didn´t see anything special with Yates. He is claiming something in the beginning of most games. It says nothing about his alignment. I´ll see what you are talking about Sili and Arsis.

and heres the 180. we go from casing to budding; she takes a different tone with me, and trys to get me to empathize with her by using "As you surely understand". she's also now making an effort to take what i'm saying into account, this is a budding tactic imo going from attacking me to following me.

she makes a firm mention of Yates, echoing what others have said in regards to yate's meta and still distances from Sili and Arsis by not commenting on them at all.

she also promises a re-read, but never does one. there are 30 minutes between this post and her last; plenty of time for a re-read of 5-6 pages.

Okay, now I realise what the Yates vs. Arsis thing is. I´m not sure about Yates, he does these things all the time. Time will tell.

It´s very hard to get a feel for most players since many haven´t said much at all. I don´t feel confortable voting anyone right now and I have to go to bed.

states she realizes what the yates vs Arsis thing is, after i point it out on thread with quotes. comments about Yates, citing meta again, but refuses to say anything about Arsis.

knows the deadline is soon, goes to sleep without voting while a claimed power role is the lead votes. this is not a townie move imo

Nynaeve · January 13, 2015

I know better than to try buddying Red. I like my bits where they are.

Nynaeve · January 13, 2015

@Yates

Yates · January 13, 2015

What's a "puppeteering move?"

Yates · January 13, 2015

@Red - Also, I may have more to say on points 1, 8, 9, and 10 once I know what you mean.

Red2111 · January 13, 2015

puppeteering = cheerleading

basically when a scum plays puppet master with the town. they point out something scummy, but dont go for it hard core in hopes that a townie will pick up on it and throw some hardcore pressure. they work from the shadows, never directly getting their hands dirty but always are the main instigator for town-on-town violence.

if you've read Wheel of Time. basically their playing at being Moggy or Moridin.

Red2111 · January 13, 2015

historic example of puppeteering. the attack on Fort Sumter in the American Civil War.

the North made their aid ship look like a war ship. so that when the South attacked because it appeared to be an invading force rather than a ship with aid supply, the South came off looking like the aggressor and the North was able to look like the victim.

Red2111 · January 13, 2015

And as an added note:

Rules

3. Character claiming is not allowed.

i read the rules like 5 times o.o i retract that bit then.

I know better than to try buddying Red. I like my bits where they are.

you would think so, as well as with people ATE at me. yet people still do it and i continue to give the exact opposite of what they hope to accomplish.

Arsis · January 13, 2015

I never defended Sili. I even said I didn't believe his claim at all. :shrug:

Nynaeve · January 13, 2015

I know better than to try buddying Red. I like my bits where they are.

you would think so, as well as with people ATE at me. yet people still do it and i continue to give the exact opposite of what they hope to accomplish.

You're basically describing every redhead on earth, but okay lol

Red2111 · January 13, 2015

I never defended Sili. I even said I didn't believe his claim at all. :shrug:

you did defend Sili, indirectly. you defended against his lynch by stating multiple times "Sili is being Sili, not a reason to vote him".

you not only stated that you didn't believe his claim, but also that it wasn't important. since when is a CC not important?

and your flippant reaction to the entire thing is ping worthy since you dont believe his claim.

if you didnt believe his claim, given he was CCing a power role and trying to get that claim lynched, that should be enough reason to vote him. instead you defend him by being aloof towards his CC and latching onto the most vocal against him the first chance you got.

there are only 2 reasons to CC a power role. because its a legit CC and you're countering a fake claim. OR your scum and your trying to get the power role lynched or cast doubt on the power role to set up WIFOM.

Arsis · January 13, 2015

I never defended Sili. I even said I didn't believe his claim at all. :shrug:

you did defend Sili, indirectly. you defended against his lynch by stating multiple times "Sili is being Sili, not a reason to vote him".

you not only stated that you didn't believe his claim, but also that it wasn't important. since when is a CC not important?

and your flippant reaction to the entire thing is ping worthy since you dont believe his claim.

if you didnt believe his claim, given he was CCing a power role and trying to get that claim lynched, that should be enough reason to vote him. instead you defend him by being aloof towards his CC and latching onto the most vocal against him the first chance you got.

there are only 2 reasons to CC a power role. because its a legit CC and you're countering a fake claim. OR your scum and your trying to get the power role lynched or cast doubt on the power role to set up WIFOM.

Who did he counter claim? I wasn't even paying attention.

Red2111 · January 13, 2015

I never defended Sili. I even said I didn't believe his claim at all. :shrug:

you did defend Sili, indirectly. you defended against his lynch by stating multiple times "Sili is being Sili, not a reason to vote him".

you not only stated that you didn't believe his claim, but also that it wasn't important. since when is a CC not important?

and your flippant reaction to the entire thing is ping worthy since you dont believe his claim.

if you didnt believe his claim, given he was CCing a power role and trying to get that claim lynched, that should be enough reason to vote him. instead you defend him by being aloof towards his CC and latching onto the most vocal against him the first chance you got.

there are only 2 reasons to CC a power role. because its a legit CC and you're countering a fake claim. OR your scum and your trying to get the power role lynched or cast doubt on the power role to set up WIFOM.

Who did he counter claim? I wasn't even paying attention.

Arsis · January 13, 2015

I never defended Sili. I even said I didn't believe his claim at all. :shrug:

you did defend Sili, indirectly. you defended against his lynch by stating multiple times "Sili is being Sili, not a reason to vote him".

you not only stated that you didn't believe his claim, but also that it wasn't important. since when is a CC not important?

and your flippant reaction to the entire thing is ping worthy since you dont believe his claim.

if you didnt believe his claim, given he was CCing a power role and trying to get that claim lynched, that should be enough reason to vote him. instead you defend him by being aloof towards his CC and latching onto the most vocal against him the first chance you got.

there are only 2 reasons to CC a power role. because its a legit CC and you're countering a fake claim. OR your scum and your trying to get the power role lynched or cast doubt on the power role to set up WIFOM.

Who did he counter claim? I wasn't even paying attention.

I mean I don't know who he was counter claiming. You said he was counter claiming somsone. I missed it completly. Who was he counter claiming?

[Advanced] The Scouring of the Shire - Game Over

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