[Basic]: Be Nice Mafia

[BFG]

Good evening :)

[Thane Vakarian]

am i getting the implication of a GF correctly?

[Thane Vakarian]

evening BFG :)

[Clovdyx]

am i getting the implication of a GF correctly?

 

Yeah, that's by far the most likely reason Tress is alive right now - hoping to get peeked and cleared.

[BFG]

Sili

[BFG]

Well that's very interesting.

 

I'm relatively certain that the only reason I'm still alive is that my role is useless for the rest of the game... unless anyone has a better suggestion.

Several, most based on the fact that Yates just flipped mafia. GF is one of them though.

[Niniel]

Clove (1) - Thane

 

Not voting: Tress, BFG, Clov, Cass

 

 

With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.

 

Deadline is Saturday 9 PM CET. http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20150117T21&p0=292&msg=Deadline+D2

 

 

 

thanks for the game tina

 

Thanks for playing. 

[BFG]

I don't know, maybe I'm biased here, but her posts seem like she SHOULD have been reading me as town.  She had one solid complaint about what I had posted, which was me asking Sili for insinuating she couldn't make her opening as scum, so she started to be concerned I was setting her up.  Even though that wasn't remotely possible by what I had said.  So she ignores multiple things I said that she agreed with?

I can sort of agree with this. But you said in your definition that 'tinfoil' is when you change your mind on a 'strong' town read. Given Cass's posts were in the first 5 pages or so, you'd just finished the tentative discussion a couple of pages ago, indicating that it was early for strong reads and Cass was clear about her lean. Not only that but she uses tinfoil for players that she clearly didn't have a town read on, yet it didn't seem to be an issue for you then?

[BFG]

Cass,

 

- When you were rereading considering that Sili might be town were you re reading the thread or via. ISO?

 

- I also asked you why you had Clov as a mafia suspect when you were agreeing with what he said? Yet when you responded to Clov it sounded like you were reading him as town after all?

[Clovdyx]

 

I don't know, maybe I'm biased here, but her posts seem like she SHOULD have been reading me as town.  She had one solid complaint about what I had posted, which was me asking Sili for insinuating she couldn't make her opening as scum, so she started to be concerned I was setting her up.  Even though that wasn't remotely possible by what I had said.  So she ignores multiple things I said that she agreed with?

I can sort of agree with this. But you said in your definition that 'tinfoil' is when you change your mind on a 'strong' town read. Given Cass's posts were in the first 5 pages or so, you'd just finished the tentative discussion a couple of pages ago, indicating that it was early for strong reads and Cass was clear about her lean. Not only that but she uses tinfoil for players that she clearly didn't have a town read on, yet it didn't seem to be an issue for you then?

 

 

This is technically untrue.  What you're labeling as a definition was an example.  

 

 

Here, he's viewing the interactions between Sili and you with a similar mindset of my own.  You can probably justify the tinfoil discussion as semantics if you want, but I think there's some substance to it.  If you come into a thread and immediately view somebody as scum, is that tinfoiling?  IMO no - because you're not reading them as town.  If I was to start worrying about someone like Cass - that is, somebody I've been strongly supporting the entire game - without a major change, THAT would be tinfoil.

 

 

Underline explains why it's not "tinfoil" to come in and read somebody as mafia off the bat.  Bold is an example.

 

 

I'm confused as to why this is what you want to discuss right now though.  If you're going to read me as scum because THAT - specifically - and ignore everything else that's happened, I think you need to come up with a better plan.

[BFG]

 

 

Sili - Here's where I'm at IRT Yates...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You claim she's a scum lean but you treat her as Town. Do you not recall this discussion?

You didn't, as far as I can tell, imply anything like that.

 

Not to make this into too big of a deal but, what?? You claim you called BFG a scum suspect. I acknowledge that. I read it. It's pretty clear. Then you go on to respond to BFG throughout all of Page 7 in a tone that suggests [to me] you already know she's Town. [Granted; tone reading is a skill I'm trying to hone.] So when you claim I never "commented" on the fact that you called BFG a scum read, you are missing the fact that it is implied that I'm commenting on it when I ask BFG what she thinks about you treating her like you know she's Town. This question only really makes sense if I already know that you called her scummy and thus your tone made the question pertinent given your stated read. Follow?

 

You eschew,

I'm waiting for my scum list to town tell, then I'll start over by adjusting my expectations and rereading.

 

Yeah. Pretty much. I actually kind of wait for ANYONE to Town tell to a degree I recognize so I can focus my scum hunting elsewhere. I kind of pride myself on not Town tunneling and think I've done a pretty decent job of late. That's how I accomplish that feat. But what's the point of this statement [accusation?]?

 

 

From your quoted excerpts, coded blue. I had bfg as scum by poe. It was not a strong stance and I was looking for reasons to change my mind. I imply this by the quote you left out and my inclusion of clov as a scum lean.

What did I leave out? It's possible I misunderstood something or wasn't following your train of thought...

 

You promised you would go into detail how I treat Bfg as town. The most I think you can say is we cooperate to meet an ends, and that's pretty much all I got from reading thrice. You'll have to help me.

Best laid plans of mice and men. I'm just going to call it "tone" rather then spend the 1000 words it would take to explain why that appears to be the case.

 

The point is linking players to me is a good part of your content, and so I ask, how is insinuating scum partners without case building early day 1 without a single flip conducive to hunting scum?

I was being cheeky with you and Cass. Really, I was trying to coax a reaction out of you two, as you already suspected. Cass fell for it and I think her reaction was on point. So she got the first Equestria Town Carrot. Your response is automagically void because you knew what I was doing and admitted to it.

 

Your tone with BFG, given your stated opinion of her alignment, struck me ass odd and is a completely separate event. It's just coincidence, really, that it happened to be you. Again. Or, maybe it's not coincidence so much as simple math.

 

It's pure tinfoil right?

See? You did it again. Now you are treating ME like you know I'm Town. It can't be "tinfoil" unless you know I'm Town.

 

Like, say I flip Scum, what are you going to do - lynch bfg because we worked together for a page? From a villager's point of view (e.g. mine) it seems frivolous and maybe destructive depending on the roster's gullibility, because I could very well be in anti-spew and as a matter of fact, scum treating a player like town usually means that player is town.

 

Like jmm has been doing for me.

 

And you say I've been doing for bfg.

I agree with the bold. If you were to flip scum, I would think that would clear me, BFG, and Cass [to a lesser degree]. At least it would weigh favorably in my evaluation of BFG and Cass's alignments.

 

 

 

I don't really get this impression at all from their interactions.  There is something that stood out to me, but I'm hoping you can give an example or explain what you mean before I show it.

As I told Sili, it's mostly tone. Let me see if I can pull up a quote or two that really emphasizes what I mean...

 

Okay, here's I think the exchange that felt too familiar to me:

 

Lol, misunderstood what you said, I agree with the general meta on Thane. I disagree with 'the wolf' though, it reads as a continuation of 'teh mafia' started by Tress and thus a deliberate use of words and not an unconscious use.

ah i see. i'm still leaning town on him but i'm a little more scared now. i'll be watching him carefully.

Sure. MAYBE Sili is just "working together," as he says. But something about that doesn't feel natural if Sili is assuming BFG is scum.

 

But the other thing that bothers me is the same thing I just busted Sili for:

Sili, given 2 mafia who are you most likely to tinfoil on at the moment?

Here, BFG is assuming Sili is Town. That's why I said earlier that it felt like at least one of them knew the other's alignment. And it's not like BFG really went after Sili. That whole page reads like a limp distancing argument. And that's in my minus column for BFG. This isn't really something I was prepared to talk about but it seems as though the cat's out of the bag so let's make it public and discuss...

 

 

He made it seem like he was comfortable enough leaving his argument about the link between BFG/you as tone.  I pressed for further information, and he obliged.  That's by no means locks him in as town, but him being willing to work with me gives him a little bit of credit.  He's displaying a similar thought process to me ("tinfoil" vs "suspicion")*

 

 

 

And his argument about linking you makes sense.  You named BFG as a scum read...immediately after you agreed with her reads.  You seem to have taken her suspicion of Thane to heart ("I'm more scared of him now").  I don't expect players to immediately write off anything their suspects say, but if you're that in sync with her, why should she be a scum read?  Is everything she's saying a TMI-based read that she's gifting us?

 

Can you explain the bolded?

[Clovdyx]

That being said, this doesn't even seem like BFG trying to nitpick me to death as scum.  There's probably far more convincing ways of painting me in a bad light than arguing the specifics of when I used the word "strongly" as some sort of slip.

[Clovdyx]

 

 

 

Sili - Here's where I'm at IRT Yates...

 

 

 

 

 

 

You claim she's a scum lean but you treat her as Town. Do you not recall this discussion?

You didn't, as far as I can tell, imply anything like that.

 

Not to make this into too big of a deal but, what?? You claim you called BFG a scum suspect. I acknowledge that. I read it. It's pretty clear. Then you go on to respond to BFG throughout all of Page 7 in a tone that suggests [to me] you already know she's Town. [Granted; tone reading is a skill I'm trying to hone.] So when you claim I never "commented" on the fact that you called BFG a scum read, you are missing the fact that it is implied that I'm commenting on it when I ask BFG what she thinks about you treating her like you know she's Town. This question only really makes sense if I already know that you called her scummy and thus your tone made the question pertinent given your stated read. Follow?

 

You eschew,

I'm waiting for my scum list to town tell, then I'll start over by adjusting my expectations and rereading.

 

Yeah. Pretty much. I actually kind of wait for ANYONE to Town tell to a degree I recognize so I can focus my scum hunting elsewhere. I kind of pride myself on not Town tunneling and think I've done a pretty decent job of late. That's how I accomplish that feat. But what's the point of this statement [accusation?]?

 

 

From your quoted excerpts, coded blue. I had bfg as scum by poe. It was not a strong stance and I was looking for reasons to change my mind. I imply this by the quote you left out and my inclusion of clov as a scum lean.

What did I leave out? It's possible I misunderstood something or wasn't following your train of thought...

 

You promised you would go into detail how I treat Bfg as town. The most I think you can say is we cooperate to meet an ends, and that's pretty much all I got from reading thrice. You'll have to help me.

Best laid plans of mice and men. I'm just going to call it "tone" rather then spend the 1000 words it would take to explain why that appears to be the case.

 

The point is linking players to me is a good part of your content, and so I ask, how is insinuating scum partners without case building early day 1 without a single flip conducive to hunting scum?

I was being cheeky with you and Cass. Really, I was trying to coax a reaction out of you two, as you already suspected. Cass fell for it and I think her reaction was on point. So she got the first Equestria Town Carrot. Your response is automagically void because you knew what I was doing and admitted to it.

 

Your tone with BFG, given your stated opinion of her alignment, struck me ass odd and is a completely separate event. It's just coincidence, really, that it happened to be you. Again. Or, maybe it's not coincidence so much as simple math.

 

It's pure tinfoil right?

See? You did it again. Now you are treating ME like you know I'm Town. It can't be "tinfoil" unless you know I'm Town.

 

Like, say I flip Scum, what are you going to do - lynch bfg because we worked together for a page? From a villager's point of view (e.g. mine) it seems frivolous and maybe destructive depending on the roster's gullibility, because I could very well be in anti-spew and as a matter of fact, scum treating a player like town usually means that player is town.

 

Like jmm has been doing for me.

 

And you say I've been doing for bfg.

I agree with the bold. If you were to flip scum, I would think that would clear me, BFG, and Cass [to a lesser degree]. At least it would weigh favorably in my evaluation of BFG and Cass's alignments.

 

 

 

I don't really get this impression at all from their interactions.  There is something that stood out to me, but I'm hoping you can give an example or explain what you mean before I show it.

As I told Sili, it's mostly tone. Let me see if I can pull up a quote or two that really emphasizes what I mean...

 

Okay, here's I think the exchange that felt too familiar to me:

 

Lol, misunderstood what you said, I agree with the general meta on Thane. I disagree with 'the wolf' though, it reads as a continuation of 'teh mafia' started by Tress and thus a deliberate use of words and not an unconscious use.

ah i see. i'm still leaning town on him but i'm a little more scared now. i'll be watching him carefully.

Sure. MAYBE Sili is just "working together," as he says. But something about that doesn't feel natural if Sili is assuming BFG is scum.

 

But the other thing that bothers me is the same thing I just busted Sili for:

Sili, given 2 mafia who are you most likely to tinfoil on at the moment?

Here, BFG is assuming Sili is Town. That's why I said earlier that it felt like at least one of them knew the other's alignment. And it's not like BFG really went after Sili. That whole page reads like a limp distancing argument. And that's in my minus column for BFG. This isn't really something I was prepared to talk about but it seems as though the cat's out of the bag so let's make it public and discuss...

 

 

He made it seem like he was comfortable enough leaving his argument about the link between BFG/you as tone.  I pressed for further information, and he obliged.  That's by no means locks him in as town, but him being willing to work with me gives him a little bit of credit.  He's displaying a similar thought process to me ("tinfoil" vs "suspicion")*

 

 

 

And his argument about linking you makes sense.  You named BFG as a scum read...immediately after you agreed with her reads.  You seem to have taken her suspicion of Thane to heart ("I'm more scared of him now").  I don't expect players to immediately write off anything their suspects say, but if you're that in sync with her, why should she be a scum read?  Is everything she's saying a TMI-based read that she's gifting us?

 

Can you explain the bolded?

 

 

IIRC you had just given some reads.  I think they were on Cass and me being town and the quote suggests you were wary of Thane, but I'd have to go back and check to make sure.  Sili made a post that was like "I agree with this", and immediately after pointed you out as a scum read.  Or lean.  Or whatever term he used, since they aren't the same thing.

 

In any case, it just seemed backwards that he would see eye-to-eye with you and let your reads influence him but still view you negatively.  Only way it makes sense if his thought process was "BFG's scum, but I'll trust who she's town reading, because she KNOWS they're town".

[BFG]

@Clov - I'm trying to clear up the details that don't make sense.

 

As of the end of Day 2 Thane and Tress moved up my list, which means I'm misclearing you, Cass or Thane.

 

One more question (for now)... you had a town read on Yates because he was willing to explain further on request, but in his response to me, which was before your reply he refused to explain his town read on you or Tress.

So 2 things:

Did his different treatment of you and me mean anything?

Given his previous in thread explanation for town reading you was that this was town!Clov approach but he doesn't know your mafia game, weren't you worried about his reasoning?

[BFG]

 

 

 

 

Sili - Here's where I'm at IRT Yates...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You claim she's a scum lean but you treat her as Town. Do you not recall this discussion?

You didn't, as far as I can tell, imply anything like that.

 

Not to make this into too big of a deal but, what?? You claim you called BFG a scum suspect. I acknowledge that. I read it. It's pretty clear. Then you go on to respond to BFG throughout all of Page 7 in a tone that suggests [to me] you already know she's Town. [Granted; tone reading is a skill I'm trying to hone.] So when you claim I never "commented" on the fact that you called BFG a scum read, you are missing the fact that it is implied that I'm commenting on it when I ask BFG what she thinks about you treating her like you know she's Town. This question only really makes sense if I already know that you called her scummy and thus your tone made the question pertinent given your stated read. Follow?

 

You eschew,

 

I'm waiting for my scum list to town tell, then I'll start over by adjusting my expectations and rereading.

 

Yeah. Pretty much. I actually kind of wait for ANYONE to Town tell to a degree I recognize so I can focus my scum hunting elsewhere. I kind of pride myself on not Town tunneling and think I've done a pretty decent job of late. That's how I accomplish that feat. But what's the point of this statement [accusation?]?

 

 

From your quoted excerpts, coded blue. I had bfg as scum by poe. It was not a strong stance and I was looking for reasons to change my mind. I imply this by the quote you left out and my inclusion of clov as a scum lean.

What did I leave out? It's possible I misunderstood something or wasn't following your train of thought...

 

You promised you would go into detail how I treat Bfg as town. The most I think you can say is we cooperate to meet an ends, and that's pretty much all I got from reading thrice. You'll have to help me.

Best laid plans of mice and men. I'm just going to call it "tone" rather then spend the 1000 words it would take to explain why that appears to be the case.

 

The point is linking players to me is a good part of your content, and so I ask, how is insinuating scum partners without case building early day 1 without a single flip conducive to hunting scum?

I was being cheeky with you and Cass. Really, I was trying to coax a reaction out of you two, as you already suspected. Cass fell for it and I think her reaction was on point. So she got the first Equestria Town Carrot. Your response is automagically void because you knew what I was doing and admitted to it.

 

Your tone with BFG, given your stated opinion of her alignment, struck me ass odd and is a completely separate event. It's just coincidence, really, that it happened to be you. Again. Or, maybe it's not coincidence so much as simple math.

 

It's pure tinfoil right?

See? You did it again. Now you are treating ME like you know I'm Town. It can't be "tinfoil" unless you know I'm Town.

 

Like, say I flip Scum, what are you going to do - lynch bfg because we worked together for a page? From a villager's point of view (e.g. mine) it seems frivolous and maybe destructive depending on the roster's gullibility, because I could very well be in anti-spew and as a matter of fact, scum treating a player like town usually means that player is town.

 

Like jmm has been doing for me.

 

And you say I've been doing for bfg.

I agree with the bold. If you were to flip scum, I would think that would clear me, BFG, and Cass [to a lesser degree]. At least it would weigh favorably in my evaluation of BFG and Cass's alignments.

 

 

 

I don't really get this impression at all from their interactions.  There is something that stood out to me, but I'm hoping you can give an example or explain what you mean before I show it.

As I told Sili, it's mostly tone. Let me see if I can pull up a quote or two that really emphasizes what I mean...

 

Okay, here's I think the exchange that felt too familiar to me:

 

Lol, misunderstood what you said, I agree with the general meta on Thane. I disagree with 'the wolf' though, it reads as a continuation of 'teh mafia' started by Tress and thus a deliberate use of words and not an unconscious use.

ah i see. i'm still leaning town on him but i'm a little more scared now. i'll be watching him carefully.

Sure. MAYBE Sili is just "working together," as he says. But something about that doesn't feel natural if Sili is assuming BFG is scum.

 

But the other thing that bothers me is the same thing I just busted Sili for:

Sili, given 2 mafia who are you most likely to tinfoil on at the moment?

Here, BFG is assuming Sili is Town. That's why I said earlier that it felt like at least one of them knew the other's alignment. And it's not like BFG really went after Sili. That whole page reads like a limp distancing argument. And that's in my minus column for BFG. This isn't really something I was prepared to talk about but it seems as though the cat's out of the bag so let's make it public and discuss...

 

 

He made it seem like he was comfortable enough leaving his argument about the link between BFG/you as tone.  I pressed for further information, and he obliged.  That's by no means locks him in as town, but him being willing to work with me gives him a little bit of credit.  He's displaying a similar thought process to me ("tinfoil" vs "suspicion")*

 

 

 

And his argument about linking you makes sense.  You named BFG as a scum read...immediately after you agreed with her reads.  You seem to have taken her suspicion of Thane to heart ("I'm more scared of him now").  I don't expect players to immediately write off anything their suspects say, but if you're that in sync with her, why should she be a scum read?  Is everything she's saying a TMI-based read that she's gifting us?

 

Can you explain the bolded?

 

 

IIRC you had just given some reads.  I think they were on Cass and me being town and the quote suggests you were wary of Thane, but I'd have to go back and check to make sure.  Sili made a post that was like "I agree with this", and immediately after pointed you out as a scum read.  Or lean.  Or whatever term he used, since they aren't the same thing.

 

In any case, it just seemed backwards that he would see eye-to-eye with you and let your reads influence him but still view you negatively.  Only way it makes sense if his thought process was "BFG's scum, but I'll trust who she's town reading, because she KNOWS they're town".

 

Ignoring Silk's sequence of reads which read differently to me I guess because real time. I read that as you saying Sili knew (making him mafia) I had TMI (making me mafia) on Thane (making him mafia) which made no sense. Your response looks a little better.

[BFG]

Anyways, we're out to dinner for a bit. I'll start on ISO's tonight

[Clovdyx]

@Clov - I'm trying to clear up the details that don't make sense.

 

As of the end of Day 2 Thane and Tress moved up my list, which means I'm misclearing you, Cass or Thane.

 

One more question (for now)... you had a town read on Yates because he was willing to explain further on request, but in his response to me, which was before your reply he refused to explain his town read on you or Tress.

So 2 things:

Did his different treatment of you and me mean anything?

Given his previous in thread explanation for town reading you was that this was town!Clov approach but he doesn't know your mafia game, weren't you worried about his reasoning?

 

Both of those are things that SHOULD have stood out to me but didn't.  I'm guessing I overlooked his difference in approach from you to me because I wasn't very trusting of you really early on, myself.  Sort of a confirmation bias thing.

 

For him not knowing my scum game... yeah, I can't really say anything there.  Should have set off a red flag but didn't.  Just a bad play on my part.

[Niniel]

Clove (1) - Thane

 

Not voting: Tress, BFG, Clov, Cass

 

 

With 5 alive it takes 3 to lynch.

 

Deadline is Saturday 9 PM CET. http://www.timeandda...msg=Deadline D2

 

 

My dear ponies, I have to go to bed early today. See you all tomorrow. 

[Cass]

Hey all, got some sleep and should be able to post most of my catchup questions/responses during ponylette's nap today (soon) yey!

 

Cass,

- When you were rereading considering that Sili might be town were you re reading the thread or via. ISO?

- I also asked you why you had Clov as a mafia suspect when you were agreeing with what he said? Yet when you responded to Clov it sounded like you were reading him as town after all?

- Both, often I needed the context of thread to try and work out what he was saying - why?

- I was/am paranoid about the possibility of Clov subtly setting me up as a Wolf, and I think I've explained that several times (can't remember if it was specifically in relation to a question you asked me directly or not, sorry if I missed something ) I'm not sure what you mean by 'it sounded like you were reading him as town' - at least not in the earlier game when I was more concerned about the Clov-Sili interactions feeling pretty strongly to me like something was off. As far as I can remember I was generally fishing for more from him because my gut feel had me uncertain even though I could understand the logic of what he said. I don't see how that suggests I was reading him as Town. Can you explain/give examples of what you mean?

[Thane Vakarian]

i'm here.... and yeah, i think i've said my thing... willing to discuss though

[Niniel]

Good morning! Lovely day! Except that it will be a crazy day at work. Luckily my work is mostly fun but it means that I won´t be here until later today. 

[Cass]

Hey-hey pony people!

I am back and hunting scum (re-reading again from beginning of D2; tonight's plan is to start again and answer questions as I find them/go along). Sorry for being slanky and cranky last couple of days, piled too much onto my RL plate and then sacrificed sleep for fun, it's a thing I do 

 

Anyway, moving on!

[Cass]

Hey-hey pony people!

I am back and hunting scum (re-reading again from beginning of D2; tonight's plan is to start again and answer questions as I find them/go along). Sorry for being slanky and cranky last couple of days, piled too much onto my RL plate and then sacrificed sleep for fun, it's a thing I do 

 

Anyway, moving on!

[Cass]

[v]Sili[/v]

 

I think i got fooled D1. Been re-reading some after N1, and yeah, you don't make sense to me. 

 

 

ignore Thane, really?

 

Yates: i thought Sili a possible wolf candidate early D1. His tone and general posting improved, that's why he went down my list of suspects. Right now, he's absolutely everywhere. He's not making sense at all to me. Usually, i can get where he comes from, but here.... nope. I think he's a good one for today

Thane, if you're here, what specifically bothered you/wasn't making sense? What made you think that you'd been 'fooled' D1, enough that you would vote?

[Thane Vakarian]

i'm here, at work, so bear with me.