[Basic]: Be Nice Mafia

BFG · January 13, 2015

I would say that's a good cake, but you don't have me on there :p

Niniel · January 13, 2015

"I saw this wonderful cake and I just couldn´t help myself. I´ll leave the party but I hope to be back to make up to you. Maybe I can buy an even bigger cake?"

Moar caek???

*The Princess has left the party*

:wub:

BFG · January 13, 2015

I'm caught up, although I was skimming the last few arguments, since I already had spoilers :laugh:

I'm out for dinner now and I'll start rereading after.

Short story, I'm feeling significantly happier about Tress :wub: I'm also happier that Thane is more likely town, so I need to revisit everyone.

Cass I don't think you addressed this - when you're rereading do you ISO or reread in full?

Thane Vakarian · January 13, 2015

i'll be off for the night soon, work is nearly done. Very happy with how D2 ended. Cyas all tomorrow :happy:

Sili Quirrels · January 13, 2015

Peek clov

Niniel · January 13, 2015

Dear ponies, it´s time for your very tired mod to go to sleep. I wish you all a good evening/night/morning. See you tomorrow. :)

BFG · January 13, 2015

Since there are bits already bolded or coloured - my query is highlighted in bold and green.

Clov below you define tinfoil as switching from a *strong* town read to thinking they're mafia, yet earlier you respond to Cass using her definition, which reading between the lines is another word for paranoia. At this stage Cass has said 'partial mindmeld wrt Sili but she's still watching you. In her reads post covering you she says she could just be tinfoiling. When you respond you say she's just tinfoiling/paranoia but at this stage she hasn't expressed a town read on you, certainly not a strong one. How does that fit in with your later definition?

<<<deleted>>>

Here, he's viewing the interactions between Sili and you with a similar mindset of my own. You can probably justify the tinfoil discussion as semantics if you want, but I think there's some substance to it. If you come into a thread and immediately view somebody as scum, is that tinfoiling? IMO no - because you're not reading them as town. If I was to start worrying about someone like Cass - that is, somebody I've been strongly supporting the entire game - without a major change, THAT would be tinfoil.

For you to approach Sili the way you did, it made it seem like you had a considerably stronger stance on his alignment than you should have. I think you answered well enough to lower my suspicions, but obviously Yates saw the same thing I did* so I get the feeling he's trying to make the same sort of conclusions I am.

<<<deleted>>>

<<<deleted>>>

Massive quote chopping in the one below.

- Picks up the 'pressure' on Sili. Uses Sili's 'read' of me as the base:

Valid but ... *shoves on tinfoil hat*... parts 'fit' my current theory that Sili and Clov are W-W, and my concern that I'm being set up by Scum again.

- Says he's confused as to how Sili can take a hard stance on my alignment based on my first post.

Agree with this, but then

- Asks why I'm 'incapable' of making that post as scum?

My opening being null is a valid point in theory, but in practice I don't like that he uses the word 'incapable' here, in a tone that suggests he's saying I'm actually 'capable' of making that post as scum. Same potential as before. Scum casting doubt on my alignment based on 'questions' of my ability. Sili 'brushes this off' by saying 'she's not incapable?'. Tinfoily as all bollocks? Maybe. Either way, I don't like it.

- Pushes harder at Sili for saying 'All my reads are tentative of course' so early on, and questions the caveat Sili put on his read of me compared to others.

This actually came across as Town to me (and was the part I was referring to when I mentioned the partial mind-meld with Clov).

- Talks about the 'relevance' of their 'different' opinions and the fact that he's considering Sili might be scum.

Ok, but slightly off. Feels kind of fake. He say's he'd rather 'try to judge' Sili on his reads than on 'meaningless posts' from the first page, but did judge him there. And then agrees that 'miscommunication' doesn't make someone scum and (?over) explains the possibility that Sili's PM may have made him scum and that it's his job to figure that out. Appeals for Town cred by essentially explaining stuff that is rather obvious, and then associating himself with 'everyone's' likely reasoning (bold in spoiler).

Questions me directly

- Says he's not sure how me being set up as scum by scum would work.

- Asks me what I'm thinking/to explain.

Maybe I wasn't overly clear in my initial statements to Sili, but I found Clov asking for explanations on this odd because i)at the end of the last game, I thought it was pretty obvious that this had been one of scum's main ploys when it came to me, and ii) I distinctly remember Clov commenting on the DT/after the game. I kind of made these points in my response (bold in the spoiler). He hasn't posted since asking me the initial question, so I'm still waiting to see what comes up in his response to my explanation.

Other

Pretty much null

- Jokes in response to Yate's first post

Seemed purposefully flippant, but not necessarily scummy.

- Answers jmm's question about the number of scum likely to be in this game

Says two. Initially I took this as Town/null, and nobody else experienced has contradicted the answer so it's probably correct, but, just to dot i's and cross t's can the mod/other experienced players please confirm this is right, please?

@ Clov

It's not much to go on yet, but already I'm reading your posts with a scummish lean, especially in relation to Sili/points raised by Sili. At this point you seem to be the second most likely wolf to me. I know I haven't played a proper game with you and could just be tinfoiling/reading you all wrong so I'm interested to know your thoughts/figure this out further.

- What are your responses/reactions to the above?

- What is your current read on Sili, and why?

Red - Well, yeah, that would be the implication there. I think your opening post was pretty null, so the way Sili presented his thoughts on it seemed strange - I didn't feel there was anything that was alignment indicative so him implying you would have had to get massive Mafia (alignment, not the game) experience to make it as Mafia was off. Bold red behind it though is a bad conclusion, though. I'm not "casting doubt" on your alignment, and my stance had nothing to do with your ability. I was casting doubt on what appeared to be a strong read off nothing.

As for the rest of it, honestly, most of it seems to be paranoia/tinfoiling. You and I seem to have been seeing the thread the same way early on. From your POV, I can understand (and appreciate) some concern that maybe I'm trying to side with you or something, but I think it's a little early to worry about that.

Section highlighted in blue is something that stood out to me as more than just tinfoiling. If you feel it felt fake, I can't really do/say anything to refute that. You're wrong about me judging him based off the first page fluff, though. My read from him in post #29 is based on him

1) moving on from a presumable joke vote of BFG

2) his "vibes"

Effort isn't much to go on, but for the first few hours of the phase, I can appreciate somebody trying to get down to business. Like I said, it wasn't very strong, but it was a better option that making a guess based on initial posts and mod-directed spam.

Now I'm feeling worse about him. His justification for reading you as town as early as he did seems based off nothing, and his explanation on reading jmm just doesn't make sense to me. It doesn't seem like he's reading the same thread I am.

Sili Quirrels · January 13, 2015

side-note, if clov is scum it explains why yates went at me so hard.

Sili Quirrels · January 13, 2015

it explains why he had no strong feelings on my yates' tunnel, it justifies my op reading, and i've had a bad feeling about him today.

BFG · January 13, 2015

Would make a few people GOAT Clov readers - you, Cass, Thane, Jmm were all suspicious of him early on

BFG · January 13, 2015

Anyways I'm off to bed, it's nearly midnight here, but that stood out from the first 5 pages or so.

Clovdyx · January 14, 2015

I don't know, maybe I'm biased here, but her posts seem like she SHOULD have been reading me as town. She had one solid complaint about what I had posted, which was me asking Sili for insinuating she couldn't make her opening as scum, so she started to be concerned I was setting her up. Even though that wasn't remotely possible by what I had said. So she ignores multiple things I said that she agreed with?

Sili Quirrels · January 14, 2015

Nah i dont know clov that well. He did well to convince me he was town.

Clovdyx · January 14, 2015

it explains why he had no strong feelings on my yates' tunnel, it justifies my op reading, and i've had a bad feeling about him today.

What is this Yates tunnel you keep referencing?

Sili Quirrels · January 14, 2015

Wolf.

Sili Quirrels · January 14, 2015

Ggclov?

Clovdyx · January 14, 2015

Ggclov?

Nope.

Sili Quirrels · January 14, 2015

Kay

Clovdyx · January 14, 2015

Who are you going to look at after me?

Clovdyx · January 14, 2015

That's for everyone, not JUST Sili.

Cass · January 14, 2015

I don't know, maybe I'm biased here, but her posts seem like she SHOULD have been reading me as town. She had one solid complaint about what I had posted, which was me asking Sili for insinuating she couldn't make her opening as scum, so she started to be concerned I was setting her up. Even though that wasn't remotely possible by what I had said. So she ignores multiple things I said that she agreed with?

I wouldn't say 'ignored' I would say 'decided not to tinfoil on.'

I think that decision will have to change now though. Logically, your defense of Yates could be plausibly sus, Even though it didn't seem too off to me at the time - you have more experience than me and seem less prone to over-paranoia, and potentially like you play the game hunting Town, not scum. However, although I didn't have much more than wary/uneasy gut to go on against him, I could never come up with anything myself about his play that reassured me he was not scum. At the time, I may have been prone to accepting your defense of him because I felt rather good about you.

But now? What if I was wrong??

I had other people creeping up my scummy list, but now I have to double my work and go back, comparing them to you.

This is why I don't like clearing people likely Town...

Sili Quirrels · January 14, 2015

That's for everyone, not JUST Sili.

Here's where i'm at i guess:

You're 70% wolf.

Bfg 20% wolf.

Thane 9% wolf.

1% random error.

Sili Quirrels · January 14, 2015

There aren't many worlds I don't vote you out of the gates tomorrow but i'll try to keep an open mind.

Cass · January 14, 2015

Also, FWIW I don't have a lot of time for mafia today and I'm operating on very little sleep so I *reminds self* should not stay up all night tonight.

I pulled out a heap of stuff to respond to/question last night as I read through from beginning of Day 2 with a fine tooth comb, and was going to go through responding and posting at the end of the re-read, but then Tress went and dropped her bombshell (which, ironically, was something I spent a while in the re-read trying to figure out) and for obvious reasons that just never happened.

I'm out for the rest of the afternoon, will be back again posting proper responses later tonight.

Cass · January 14, 2015

That's for everyone, not JUST Sili.

Here's where i'm at i guess:

You're 70% wolf.

Bfg 20% wolf.

Thane 9% wolf.

1% random error.

I don't do maths, so I'm not going to agree on percentages, but I find your list here currently matches the order of my suspicions. Excluding you.

Would you mind elaborating - in a way I'll understand - the reasons you have for those reads and percentages?

Please?

[Basic]: Be Nice Mafia

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