[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

[Tommyrod]

Vote Count D3.01:

Tress (2): AJ [#2932], Darthe [#2947]
Deslami (1): Deslami [#2907]
Rags (1): Dicehaslice [#3027]
Dice (1): Hallia [#3048]

Not Voting (6): Cass, Nynaeve, Pralaya, Thane Vakarian, TheRagnarok, Tress

At the gallows: Tress

Reminder: players not voting at EOD will be voting for themselves.


 

[Cass]

Cass the big issue I have with you currently is that you had Kivam as a high scum read but sustained others above him when it came to voting priority. You being on the wagon at EOD is a point in your favor but I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that Kivam was lauding you so highly because you were essentially the apprentice in his Sith regime. With support from players like Yates and Kivam I think it would be relatively easy for a new player to construct good posts.

This is a fair call I guess, from a Town perspective. Realistically, I can't really rebut with anything the Town can trust 100%. As much as it sucks I get that, and that the only thing I can do is try and explain -honestly- my thoughts and actions. I don't know that I can do that fantastically on my phone (omg this phone and office work thing sucks! I'm only up to this post), but I'll try. All I had on Kiv initially was a hunch I was being played - buddies, right? Although that felt wrong, until I found a point to single out as a legit slip-up, I had nothing directly obvious against him. He was 'nice' to me. DPR and Wom (and Yates) however all implied the same things, but what they did differently was come at me witha hostile approach, OBVIOUSLY not answering questions etc rather than just sticking around then with loopy logic like Kiv. At EoD I was still really really uncertain about that, you can see it in the things I'm trying to get across to Wom, I didn't like the idea of rushing that voir (tbh I was gonna vote Verbarm til Wom started, then if people couldn't convince me his behaviour made sense as Town I was gonna vote him) but Wom's pressure indirectly led to me pinpointing where I actually think Kiv messed up (as highlighted) and that's when I finally decided to go with my gut and logic and cast my vote, so I guess I/we owe him thanks. Even at that point I was petrified I'd made the wrong decision (see previous about have not been keeping up with recently quieter people like Krak). I don't like missing things, especially if it ends up meaning that I'm wrong. So that's what happened there, from my honest point of view.

 

I don't know how I can convince everyone that in doing this myself (is not that impossible to believe though, look at all the 'game' holes I'm digging, even if I'm good at clearing up things with a lot of words). Does anyone know if Wolves are Allowed to continue participating in their private chat after they are killed? Cos if not, that might be one point I can suggest might help convince you that I'm conducting all of this myself. FYI actually, my mentor and Tom have 'gone dark'on me for the past 2 RL days. They're either trying to prove a point/teach me a lesson about not being so insecure or they got sick of my 22/7 newbie 'what's this abbreviation?' and my fretting about whether what I was doing/had done was right. Or both. Also, true to what I stated in the beginning when this mentor thing came up, I never asked and they never answered anything on the latter either, btw. Or my question about the purpose of a CFD either, yesterday... (Grr at you boys, Grr lovehate your style.

 

So yeah. Wordy once again and I've doesn't way too long away from desk to do so but there you go - everything's on the table.

[Cass]

*'buddied' not 'buddies' re Kiv. Thank-you, autocorrect on phone. That's perfect. *headdesk*

[Andrej]

Deslami (1): Deslami [#2907]

 

[Cass]

*been way too long from desk...

 

*cries*

[Andrej]

AJ you've really grown a lot lately. How do you feel about a nyn Lynch today

 

Choo choo.

[dicetosser1]

 

 

Dice howling ITT. Im astonished that in that reads list post he said he thought I was SK because I ticked him off. Dice do you remotely see how this makes you look #squirming?

Do you remotely see how i spoke the truth as it was at the time? You p'd me off and that made me look at you badly. im not squirming. I have no reason to squirm.

look you being an ass about it doesn't change that I was right in coming at you for saying things that didn't make sense. Additionally your feelings have nothing to do with my alignment. if they did I'm confident that des and I would be mafia every game. I'm currently taking the time to talk with you and figure you out instead of jumping straight pushing that you die 4 the mistakes you've made on thread.

 

 

however my feelings DO make a difference to how I read you Darthe. I know that and thats why i acknowledged it.

[Darthe]

I get that Dice, I'm more fussing right now than anything because you're not doing a good job of distinguishing your intent from the way you present your statements.  I can tell that and I don't want to misread you.  With town up this much we have the luxury of being a bit lenient right now but not enough that you can keep muddling my (and others I assume) read on you.

 

 

Cass the big issue I have with you currently is that you had Kivam as a high scum read but sustained others above him when it came to voting priority. You being on the wagon at EOD is a point in your favor but I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that Kivam was lauding you so highly because you were essentially the apprentice in his Sith regime. With support from players like Yates and Kivam I think it would be relatively easy for a new player to construct good posts.

This is a fair call I guess, from a Town perspective. Realistically, I can't really rebut with anything the Town can trust 100%. 

 

 

The skill in this game comes from getting past the fact that nothing is guaranteed.

 

Nyn is someone that doesn't make much sense to lynch today, has posted mostly well and cased a lot and that I keep getting drawn back to wanting to vote her.  [unvote][v] ##Nyn [/v]  I'm going to try and make a case for this but not atm.

[Tommyrod]

How's this game going

[Andrej]

Depends on which side you're on Tom the Tom.

 

Darthe I'll entertain a Nyn wagon but I'm content to hold off for now until more weigh in.

[Andrej]

I love that no matter what essentially any and every wagon is likely Town driven this phase. I'm looking forward to everyone weighing in with where they think the best direction for today is.

[dicetosser1]

id want to see the case on nyn

[Cass]

The only thing I 'have' on Nyn at the moment, without having my notes, is our obvious difference in communication styles with great opportunity for misunderstanding, my early game uneasiness on her and a more recent sense of potential 'buddying', starting when I highlighted concerns about her stance on VerBarm and perceived relationship with Thane, and asked for her VerBarm ISO/ultimate opinion. None of that is solid and for all intents and prepares I see her as 'following' along. I have no history or gut on this to help me interpret either way.

[Cass]

WWhat's everyone's stance (and reasoning) on Thane now?

[dicetosser1]

for me thane = town

[Andrej]

I would rather you explain the intent behind your question first, Cass.

 

Are you suspicious of him?

 

In fact I would appreciate it very much if you'd list your current suspects. What do you think of my post above about isolating those 5 for today's lynch?

[Andrej]

This is preemptive but as of right now I'm fairly confident I have the game solved.

 

I think the SK resides between Nyn/Pral

 

I think the Wolf RB resides between Cass/Tress

 

I'd love to see Nyn/Tress being the lynch/vig targets for today and if both flip town then I would line those next two up.

 

I feel reasonably confident that none of Darthe, Despot, Hallia, Dice or Thane aren't Town. Rags I'm less confident on but I reread his ISO earlier and I thought a lot of his points were good as if his instincts were solid.

 

@Darthe - how clean was Rags in that Champs game? I suggest you check his ISO as well to see what I mean now that we have half of the roster dead. He's pretty dead on with a lot of his posts.

[Cass]

Sneaking posts at 'work'.

 

Top picks in massive post from this AM (sorry too hard to link etc on phone, will highlight later if required?).

 

In a nutshell, yes, I am suspicious of Thane. Have been since first 'reads' post, (p. 41) ESPECIALLY since Kiv ' s last recap - when he bolded something about it having 'content.' Seemed like he was making it sound like a big deal. Still not sure if just buddying/misassociation/WIFOM all three, who knows. But that's what triggered my next line of thought/look into VerBarm, Thane and Nyn as possibly more susceptible. Posted big explanation somewhere in last 2 RL days, definitely needs more looking into before in comfortable with any sort of conclusion on either player. Can reference OP tonight again if needed also.

 

FYI Hope this is clear enough AJ? Hate posts like this (without references/links) cos makes it so easy for miscommunication/unwarranted doubt to occur. Your post 'sounds ' a little false polite to me, you got a specific problem you want to try hash out (with me)?

[Cass]

Lol s'ok just saw your post, explains your tone :)

[Cass]

I really don't recall anything to clear Dice or Thane, and reasons why I'm sus on them in particular are in the post I mentioned. What are your reasons for feeling so confident they're Town?

[Cass]

(Back to work)

[Andrej]

Lol s'ok just saw your post, explains your tone :)

Indeed :)

 

Be careful now, you might just prove yourself to be an apt 'tone reader' which would boggle poor Kivam's mind considering his high praise of you.

[Andrej]

Also fwiw I would lynch Tress over you at this juncture. I just think how Kivam linked himself to you is hard to ignore and although you have plausible deniability for your actions I still think the way you handled your voting is suspect.

[Cass]

@ AJ Fair logic call I guess, although I personally don't like it (obviously)...

 

For what it's worth, I find those things about my 'case' undeniably sus-looking as well (and I hate it, but really can't disprove anything there, so it's null).

 

The only explanation that I have (knowing that I'm Town) is it that the association was a clever ploy on Kiv ' s behalf, on all sides: buddies me up (somewhat effective for a good while there), freaks out the Town AND gives the Wolves something to push... which is why (on a gut level) I'm uneasy with Nyn and, to a degree Thane - cos it feels like they're unnaturally friendly in some comments and may be playing the same game (links to come tonight). Either of these may be miscommunication, obviously, and for that reason I'm also keeping my eye on Dice (although suspicion is lower there due to lower level of interaction) and why I'm recognising that I haven't done my homework on the others - to remind me that they're there because (for example) I had no idea/decent wolf read on Krak and his being wolf shocked me nearly as much as DPR being legit Town last night. True story, I've had my work cut out for me from today.

 

But yes, I feel the 'tone' of your posts with me has changed since I mentioned DPR, Wom and VerBarm voting for you last night... Why?

 

And regardless of any other player's opinion on inferring tone from text, I tend (strongly) towards ENFP in my approach to the world and interactions... and 'tone' is what tipped me off on Kiv initially (before my logic managed to catch up) so *grins* for me, so far it works well enough :)

 

Why were all those non-wolves voting for you (Anyone???)? Was it for SK or Scum suspicion, and did it make much sense?

 

(Will also try and chase this up tonight if noone gets to it before).

[Andrej]

Why were all those non-wolves voting for you (Anyone???)? Was it for SK or Scum suspicion, and did it make much sense?

 

This isn't a bad question. I honestly think a big part of it was favoritism towards Kivam. If you look at my wagon, everyone that was on it could be considered within the 'clique' of DM old timers who played here when Kivam/DPR were relevant figure heads.

 

Prior to the lynch Kivam began doing a lot of posturing type posts where he beckoned that those who wanted him to live should vote me. If you recall, he was voting Verbarm at the time, but when they expressed disinterest in voting him (save for self preservation) as the lynch his tactic switched to pushing me again. Barm followed, which I can't really fault him for. I think Barm and I lack experience together but I feel if it were up to Verb solely he wouldn't have voted me. I could be wrong here, but that's my impression as I think Verb understands me more than Barm does as a Mafia player (understandably).