[Standard] 11/10 Top Tier Vanilla+ Game Thread

[Krakalakachkn]

Why are we talking about this? I'm not going to base my read on Thane on what he rolled in recent games and the fact that he got mislynched. Either we need to learn to read him better or he needs to adjust his play to be more readable. Or both. So lets put previous games aside cause they have no bearing on what he rolled this game.

 

I'm basically gonna try and understand where you're coming from, Thane, and make my own conclusions. But yeah, drop the previous games commentary. 

 

This likely comes from town Nyn, imo.

[Tommyrod]

Vote Count D1.3:

 

Verbarm (2): Kivam [#140], Arsis [#149]

Thane (2): Sili [#8], Verbarm [#150]

Deslami (1): Darthe [#18]

Darthe (1): Deslami [#19]

Sili (1): AJ [#67]

 

Not Voting (13)

 

At the gallows: Verbarm

[Stelio Kontos]

'Sup

 

Checking in from work; I see that early day 1's here are much like other places -- lots of sound and fury signifying nothing.  Those are not exactly my specialty.

 

Only thing that's comment-worthy so far is that I think Barmacral and Darthe are making a mountain out of, well, not even a molehill, more like maybe a grain of sand, regarding Leelou's "that post is role-neutral for me" post.  I don't know if such a post is actually role-neutral for Leelou, but saying it out loud is almost certainly is (if anything it's slightly villagery for Leelou because it shows a level of critical thinking about how other people are perceiving him/her). 

 

I have no idea what that means for Barmacral and Darthe, because I don't know how likely they are to latch onto pretty random stuff in the early hours of day 1 (and I think it's early enough in the game that even having tendencies to push/not push in that way early on is basically meaningless anyway).

[Arsis]

I just don't understand why it was brought up. The fact that he got mislynched a lot isn't meta. No one is referring to anything he usually does as town/scum. It's just being said that people often misread him.... so what? Am I supposed to try to read him and then choose the opposite alignment? No. I'm gonna do my best to read him based on his content and hope that his actions reflect his alignment. And if he keeps playing in a way that comes off as sketchy... then he's gonna continue being mislynched. But that's neither here nor there.

The fact that he's an easy day 1 mislynch isn't relevant? That maybe some scum would pressure him because they know he'll look bad? How isn't that relevant?

[Yates]

Best way to read Thane is to be interacting with him realtime. That's his element as town and harder for him to hide his scumness.

 

Like two games ago i was all against lynching him (you know where you were scum with Tommy and Leelou) for these very reasons.

Csarmi is on point this game. The bold is exactly what I used to Town read Thane in the last game. And I didn't even have to be the one interacting with him there. It's just the way he responds to challenges in thread in real time that give you the read. Basically, it's a stream of consciousness sort of thought process that you see in his posts. His willingness to put out partially thought out reads is indicative of him just figuring things out and not trying to further an agenda. This is something I figured out a little too late the last time I mislynched him in Firefly.

 

I see a LOT more Town Thane here, fwiw.

 

i don't remember which game it was, but someone called me the new Blackhoof for being mislynched so often D1...

That was either the end of Firefly or ongoing. Don't let it get to you. Just post your thoughts like you did last time. You'll be fine if you're Town and outted if you're scum. So no worries.

[Krakalakachkn]

Thane lynch D1 is a lazy lynch.

[Krakalakachkn]

@Verb

 

What's your angle with Thane?

[Arsis]

An easy target gets pushed seriously on page 2 and that makes me question the push. Why he's an easy push is 100% relevant day 1. It's less relevant as the game goes on. I'm not advocating giving him a pass.

[Nynaeve]

 

I just don't understand why it was brought up. The fact that he got mislynched a lot isn't meta. No one is referring to anything he usually does as town/scum. It's just being said that people often misread him.... so what? Am I supposed to try to read him and then choose the opposite alignment? No. I'm gonna do my best to read him based on his content and hope that his actions reflect his alignment. And if he keeps playing in a way that comes off as sketchy... then he's gonna continue being mislynched. But that's neither here nor there.

The fact that he's an easy day 1 mislynch isn't relevant? That maybe some scum would pressure him because they know he'll look bad? How isn't that relevant?

 

 

Yes, it's irrelevant to me. I don't know what he rolled this game. He could easily use this line of lynchbait to coast through, as he has in the past when he rolled scum. It's HIS job to be 100% transparent so the rest of us can read him properly. My point is that when I assess his content properly then his previous mislynches won't factor in. All I care about is his content in this game. End of story.

[Yates]

I just don't understand why it was brought up. The fact that he got mislynched a lot isn't meta. No one is referring to anything he usually does as town/scum. It's just being said that people often misread him.... so what?

It's the same thing I brought up about Hally recently. Certain players are kept around as lynch bait. Hally is [was?] one and Thane is another.

 

I don't think he's going to completely change the way he plays. So instead you have to look at his meta and understand what is a Town tell and a scum tell FOR HIM. It's the same thing you do for anyone else you are more familiar with and the reason you defer to Leelou on a Verb read, for example.

 

I think Thane pointing out how often he is mislynched is his way of saying "you guys don't get me." And that's fair.

[Nynaeve]

With that said, putting aside the previous games talk, I haven't seen anything in Thane's content that bothers me thus far.

[Nynaeve]

 

I just don't understand why it was brought up. The fact that he got mislynched a lot isn't meta. No one is referring to anything he usually does as town/scum. It's just being said that people often misread him.... so what?

It's the same thing I brought up about Hally recently. Certain players are kept around as lynch bait. Hally is [was?] one and Thane is another.

 

I don't think he's going to completely change the way he plays. So instead you have to look at his meta and understand what is a Town tell and a scum tell FOR HIM. It's the same thing you do for anyone else you are more familiar with and the reason you defer to Leelou on a Verb read, for example.

 

I think Thane pointing out how often he is mislynched is his way of saying "you guys don't get me." And that's fair.

 

 

Yeah, after the last game I'm not really gonna defer to Lee ever again  

[Thane Vakarian]

so, the way i see it, this is what's happening: i feel flattered about all the attention, but it also worries me. Wolves could easily support me here, and when i flip town, gain towncred for doing so.

 

I am certainly NOT asking for a pass; let me try to play the game with you and see where we get. If you deem me scummy, then i failed, easy.  

 

Nyn, i understand your concern. I probably would mention it too if another player would 'go for meta'. Just let me try to get you to know me, or, as i said earlier, allow me to give you insight

[Thane Vakarian]

can't really jump ITT as i want, @work and it's busy... sorry

[Barmacral]

thanks for answering  

 

Now, how do you feel about the other players? I ask this to get to know your way of thinking, i doubt we ever played together before. 

 

We haven't. I'm just back from a multi-year break.

 

Still formulating my opinion on most. Liking Arsis, not liking Darthe.

[Nynaeve]

I have to go eat, I'll be back in a bit.

[Thane Vakarian]

Stelio, i'm looking forward to getting to know you as a player. I believe it's also our first game together. 

 

I do see some people mentioning Darthe... interesting. 

[Barmacral]

@Verb

 

What's your angle with Thane?

 

That vote was all me, Verb hasn't even mentioned to me his thoughts on him.

 

That said I'm feeling better about Thane now that I've seen some real gameplay. Definitely finding my interactions with him less scummy, and did not know about the every game scum meta previously. [v]##unvote[/v]

[Verbal32]

 

 

Thane joking and being jovial is not a scum tell for him. He tends to need time to warm up and feel comfortable.

 

Right, but he was joking and being jovial about beer and stuff MUCH later than I would have expected it to exist.  I was suspicious of him as a result, and he was town.  So.......yeah.

It was to Barm actually. We cross posted.

 

Best way to read Thane is to be interacting with him realtime. That's his element as town and harder for him to hide his scumness.

 

Like two games ago i was all against lynching him (you know where you were scum with Tommy and Leelou) for these very reasons.

 

 

Hmm.  I have an alternate way of looking at it.  I think he has a penchant for saying scummy things while in real-time, and that is what gets him lynched.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why are we talking about this? I'm not going to base my read on Thane on what he rolled in recent games and the fact that he got mislynched. Either we need to learn to read him better or he needs to adjust his play to be more readable. Or both. So lets put previous games aside cause they have no bearing on what he rolled this game.

 

I'm basically gonna try and understand where you're coming from, Thane, and make my own conclusions. But yeah, drop the previous games commentary.

How do you make meta reads on someone without the actual meta?

I'm not saying you can't use meta. I'm saying I don't like him reiterating his past mislynces as if it's any indication on his current alignment. Yes, people were wrong about him in the past. So what do you do? You correct yourself accordingly to be more readable, you don't sit on your butt and whinge about it. The sympathy card doesn't fly with me... and he did coast as scum in his last scumgame because he has a name of being lynchbait.

He commented on other people talking about it though. I think I'm the one who brought it up and verbal agreed with me then Thane commented on it. Unless I missed him mentioning it before. This looks to me like scum coming down super hard on something silly for no reason to look town. Taking a hard stance on something like that to try to look good without actually having to scum hunt.

 

 

^ agreed

 

 

 

 

@Verb

 

What's your angle with Thane?

 

I don't have one.

[Verbal32]

@Barm - unvote tag, dude.

 

[ unvote ] without the spaces

[Sili Quirrels]

13 pages. guys.

[Thane Vakarian]

welcome back Sili

[Thane Vakarian]

and, we still need some players to check in i think

[Stelio Kontos]

Stelio, i'm looking forward to getting to know you as a player. I believe it's also our first game together. 

 

I do see some people mentioning Darthe... interesting. 

 

Good to be here.  (I think?)

 

From what little I have gathered of Darthe (which consists of talking to Tom pregame and half-assedly skimming a couple games) he seems like the type to get out over his skis -- which is why I'm not especially interested in dissecting exactly how seriously I should be taking the line of inquiry.

[Thane Vakarian]

He's a player that can help town well if town, and can hide well as wolf. Interesting player, to put it like that.