[Advanced] Kronos and Kaylee's Firefly Mafia Won

[Sili Quirrels]

i'm also not good at giving up in half-measures

[csarmi]

Yes it was very frustrating I know. I think Tommy went out of the line by making you post insults too.

[csarmi]

You even interacted with people realtime and they still didn't catch on. Meh. We was stupid.

[csarmi]

Meh we needed more Wombat D2. He always comes with common sense as town when needed.

[Sili Quirrels]

tommy was an ass and everyone was fools. thanks for understanding selami 

 

by the way, how did you know there was a ventriloquist? you were surprisingly quick on the uptake.

[Sili Quirrels]

like quick enough that i thought you were actually a cop until i died and saw the real list.

[Sili Quirrels]

Meh we needed more Wombat D2. He always comes with common sense as town when needed.

i want to see this happen.

[Sili Quirrels]

of course, if wombat ever does make it to d2, he's obviously scum.

[Clovdyx]

 

 

 

D2 would've gone vastly different without that role imo.

 

But it's done and over with now.

 

D2 would also have gone vastly different with a little more common sense imo.

 

 

I already apologized for costing town the victory.  Will GOAT next time.

 

 

I don't think you cost the town victory, Clov. I think town lost the game together (yay? team effort? lol). Or, well, I don't think any one person could be blamed for losing the game. On principle, I wish you hadn't self-hammered, but I think you would've been lynched anyway, in the end. I'm not saying it was completely inevitable, but the numbers were close by that point, it only took a couple of townies wanting to lynch you, and we had that.

 

(That said, really, people, stop with the self-hammers. I get to play like 5 games a year these days. Don't do this to me! :D)

 

I really don't know why people get so frustrated with games these days and give up. Like, take a break, if you need it. That's one of the reasons I don't play game after game after game anymore - even if I had the time, I would end up getting frustrated and go all emo over the game. I'm not saying everyone needs to take a break once in a while, but some people do.

 

Anyway, I enjoyed the game. Great job modding, Kaylee and Tress (and Kronos). I do get some of the frustration over the post-controller role, but I also think town let themselves be distracted by it too easily. I don't think it was bastard or made the game unwinnable for us.

 

I wish I could've been around more on Day 3 to fight the Clov lynch, although I don't know that it would've done any good. I don't really have enough clout to lead a town, or the personality for it, anyway :P And I would have had us lynch Hallia anyway, which wouldn't really have changed things.

 

 

 

If I thought I could have said ANYTHING to fight it, I wouldn't have self hammered.  I basically needed every single town player to vote my candidate, which just wasn't happening.  I consider myself a reasonably good player, but Despot flipping as the Guardian Angel definitely ripped away what little town equity I had going for me.  Of course, it's my own fault for getting in a situation where my trust was dependent on a claim.

[csarmi]

tommy was an ass and everyone was fools. thanks for understanding selami 

 

by the way, how did you know there was a ventriloquist? you were surprisingly quick on the uptake.

I'm using my brains sometimes, that's how. Also I had a town read on you by then -that might have helped.

 

I saw that kind of role used in two of my games, one quite recent. That must have helped too.

 

And if I had more time to think I'd probably have picked up on the votes being yours too - I was dumb not to do so.

[csarmi]

 

 

 

 

D2 would've gone vastly different without that role imo.

 

But it's done and over with now.

 

D2 would also have gone vastly different with a little more common sense imo.

 

 

I already apologized for costing town the victory.  Will GOAT next time.

 

 

I don't think you cost the town victory, Clov. I think town lost the game together (yay? team effort? lol). Or, well, I don't think any one person could be blamed for losing the game. On principle, I wish you hadn't self-hammered, but I think you would've been lynched anyway, in the end. I'm not saying it was completely inevitable, but the numbers were close by that point, it only took a couple of townies wanting to lynch you, and we had that.

 

(That said, really, people, stop with the self-hammers. I get to play like 5 games a year these days. Don't do this to me! :D)

 

I really don't know why people get so frustrated with games these days and give up. Like, take a break, if you need it. That's one of the reasons I don't play game after game after game anymore - even if I had the time, I would end up getting frustrated and go all emo over the game. I'm not saying everyone needs to take a break once in a while, but some people do.

 

Anyway, I enjoyed the game. Great job modding, Kaylee and Tress (and Kronos). I do get some of the frustration over the post-controller role, but I also think town let themselves be distracted by it too easily. I don't think it was bastard or made the game unwinnable for us.

 

I wish I could've been around more on Day 3 to fight the Clov lynch, although I don't know that it would've done any good. I don't really have enough clout to lead a town, or the personality for it, anyway :P And I would have had us lynch Hallia anyway, which wouldn't really have changed things.

 

 

If I thought I could have said ANYTHING to fight it, I wouldn't have self hammered.  I basically needed every single town player to vote my candidate, which just wasn't happening.  I consider myself a reasonably good player, but Despot flipping as the Guardian Angel definitely ripped away what little town equity I had going for me.  Of course, it's my own fault for getting in a situation where my trust was dependent on a claim.

 

But it didn't and I fought for you man. Why didn't you fight it too? At that point I'd have done anything to save your ass up to and including lying, you just had to not hammer.

[csarmi]

I saw tons of games on DM with multiple healing roles. I think way over half of the advanced games do. I've even played in a BASIC game with two doctors!

[csarmi]

They were pushing complete and utter bull.

[csarmi]

Yes I suppose I'm quite mad at you. If I went out of the way to save you, the least you could do is not do the mafia's job and self-hammer.

 

But oh well.

[Tommyrod]

Sili, you had to be bapped

[Nynaeve]

They were pushing complete and utter bull.

 

Clov wasn't playing his usual townie game. His posts in general, him slanking off after his claim and then rolling over after Des flipped all seemed like defeated scum. I've never seen Clov play like this as town so It seemed more likely that he was scum.

 

You need to stop declaring everything that doesn't coincide with your opinion as BS. Des' flip wasn't the only reason Clov got lynched. His doc claim was the only reason he wasn't getting lynched, basically. Which means he wasn't acting like an obvious townie, as far as I'm concerned. Tommy might have had his own agenda in going after Clov, but I didn't. I legit was reading him as scum. And if I had to do it all over again I would have done the very same thing.

[Nynaeve]

Another thing you don't realize is there are always multiple options to every situations. EVERYTHING is possible but at the end of the day you have to make a call. You might go according to your gut, I go according to what's more probable logic wise. As far as I'm concerned it's more likely for there to be one protective role than multiple ones. As far as I'm concerned it's more likely NOT to have a bastarized role in an advanced game. Ergo I went with what seemed more probable. After Silli flipped, I legit thought the whole vote controlling thing and the tracker claim was some sort of gambit Silli was trying out cause he thought Des was scum but since he's new, he didn't have the clout to lead a lynch. But yeah, at the end of the day you take the content into consideration along with what seems more probable to you... and you make a call. Clov accumulated too much -EV in my eyes.

 

In any case, I get that you're more of a gut player than a logic player, but that doesn't make other people's approach any less valid and it shouldn't be dismissed or labaled as BS just because it doesn't make sense to you. You might have been right in some instances this game. Next time you're gonna be wrong. That's how gut works. Towards the end of the game you were starting to read me as scum, despite the obvious effort I put into the game. Again, logic vs gut.

[Nynaeve]

My point is I spent hours on ISOs and given everything a ton of thought and while, sure, I was wrong on some of my reads... I don't appreciate my actions being labaled as stupid or BS. At the end of the day I did my best and that's all that should matter.

[Nynaeve]

As an added note, I seldom give flavor weight in my decisions. So anyone that was surprised about me not assuming there should be a doc just because there's a doc character in show... really doesn't know how I play at all.

 

I might muse over flavor but at the end of the day I won't make decisions based on it. As a mod I always mix around characters and avoid making the obvious connections between characters and roles. Since I have no idea what other mods choose to do and I'm not a fan of gaming the mod... it's just not something I'm ever gonna rely on. I think it serves more as a distraction scum can use than actually being beneficial to town. It all boils down to a haunch.

 

The only time I ever remember semi relying on flavor was in a Star Wars game in JN where everyone seemed to be claiming characters from the new trilogy and one of the scummies (ie Arsis) claimed a character from the old trilogy. But that was seriously sticking like a sore thumb.... so it was impossible to ignore. But again, this was in addition to him acting incredibly scummy. So it was the icing on the cake and hardly the reason I thought he was scum.

[csarmi]

@Nyn - your actions and reads wasn't BS.

 

But

 

1) Despo's flip does NOT mean there wouldn't be a doc in the game. Not in an advanced game on DM. Look up games if you like, what I selected during the game as an example wasn't even a rare one). Maybe Clov wouldn't know that and Sili wouldn't either. But most would.

 

2) A Guardian Angel role does NOT mean doctor on DM at all, I wasn't just speaking nonsense when I said it would probably be a bodyguard-type of role... that's my impression from DM games.

 

3) Flavour-wise a doc role is all but guaranteed in this setup. I'm usually against flavour speculations but there are some undeniable facts that might hold. You can tinfoil on that on LyLO, but surely not earlier.

 

4) Flavour-wise the monk doesn't make sense as a plain doc role.

 

5) Despo would hard CC. Like hell he would

 

6) You do NOT lynch an uncc'd doc period, not when you got other suspects and you aren't at LyLO yet. It was always going to be a bad play.

 

So yes, DM-meta wise, flavour-wise and common sense-wise it was totall and utter BS to lynch Clov there. That don't make your reads wrong. That don't mean Clov wasn't off.

[csarmi]

And yea I know you spent a lot of hours on the game and yes you played well and was an obvious townie. You done your best.

[csarmi]

And Nyn you are not the only player. You are just one player. People are different.

 

But there is a reason that lynch went through and that's because mafia managed to push an utter BS reasoning through and that could only ever work if vocal, knowledgable players were in fact mafia. Like they were here. You were town, but for you it wasn't evident.

 

We had 7 townies alive at that point however. Alanna spoke up. I spoke up. You did your piece.

 

What were the other four doing again?

[Andrej]

I was voting Hallia

[Nynaeve]

@Nyn - your actions and reads wasn't BS.

 

But

 

1) Despo's flip does NOT mean there wouldn't be a doc in the game. Not in an advanced game on DM. Look up games if you like, what I selected during the game as an example wasn't even a rare one). Maybe Clov wouldn't know that and Sili wouldn't either. But most would.

 

2) A Guardian Angel role does NOT mean doctor on DM at all, I wasn't just speaking nonsense when I said it would probably be a bodyguard-type of role... that's my impression from DM games.

 

3) Flavour-wise a doc role is all but guaranteed in this setup. I'm usually against flavour speculations but there are some undeniable facts that might hold. You can tinfoil on that on LyLO, but surely not earlier.

 

4) Flavour-wise the monk doesn't make sense as a plain doc role.

 

5) Despo would hard CC. Like hell he would

 

6) You do NOT lynch an uncc'd doc period, not when you got other suspects and you aren't at LyLO yet. It was always going to be a bad play.

 

So yes, DM-meta wise, flavour-wise and common sense-wise it was totall and utter BS to lynch Clov there. That don't make your reads wrong. That don't mean Clov wasn't off.

 

1. No one said it wasn't possible that there was more than one protective role in the game. It was said that added to Clov's pre-existing scummy behavior, his claim, which was the only reason he managed to escape the noose.... was starting to seem sketchy. His behavior post claim made him look even worse. Adding all that up spelled scum in my book. 

 

2. I don't really care what's done on DM. Mafia wiki said it was a variation of a doc, ergo that's what it means to me.

 

3. I don't care about flavor. This is not a point I'm going to argue. Never gonna rely on it and certainly not use it to clear someone.

 

4. Again, I don't give flavor weight.

 

5. LOL  Des would totally do it. Just like when Cory/AJ hydra viewed Leelou/Hallia as scum N1 and didn't breath a word till later on to see what they'd do. People do these plays to find their teammates. And Cory said that's how they cleared me... cause I started casing Leelou/Hallia. It's a very plausible play. And Des had Clov on his scum list which to me seemed obvious that he was on to him.

 

6. I disagree. Scum false claim and if you find possible holes in their story + heavily scummy and pingy content... I would lynch.

[Nynaeve]

My huge breaking point was prolly when AJ got NKed. That was like.... great... the one player who still had his head firmly on his shoulders was gone.