Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

[Basic]TRON Mafia Game-Day 4


Xthrax

Recommended Posts

Posted

Yes and no, we need meta on you not to think you're immediate scum because of you weird playstyle in relation to DM.  After we've gotten that done though, we should start using basic scumhunting logic.

 

Again, more conversation directed at meta and "playstyle" instead of observation of the action in this game.  

 

FTR...I've played here consistently for over two years.  Plenty of source data should you or Tommy want to read those.  To rely on sample size of one game (the most recent yes) does not equate to a good analysis of my personality profile.

 

My problem is he want the assumptions of other rather than his own observations.  This allows a player to later excuse (disown) the conclusion when the analysis turns out wrong.

  • Replies 2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply
Posted

 

 

 

 

Salami, what's the difference between his town and scum games? How do you tell? And I mean you personally.

Meta is one of the worse ways to hunt. No more accurate than most assumption based theories and applied to human behavior easy to manipulate. I realize we are in the early stages of this game and there is little other evidence to draw a conclusion but that's how this game rolls.

Meta as a crutch is likely bad but it works as a supplement and for certain players who are laughably bad as scum it can be a near perfect tell. But you realize you're saying Salami shouldn't be town reading you, right? Not sure what your point is. I'm trying to get him to help me understand you since you refuse to talk to me or participate meaningfully yet he thinks you're town.

I cannot speak for Salami and stop putting words in my mouth. Salami is reading me correctly. I am town.

 

My point is: you've done little other than try to discern my meta and then offer your own meta as a defense when your play comes across as sketchy. Not the best tactics.

 

You'd learn more about people through observation than assumptions especially the assumptions of others. I guess using assumption of others could give a player an out when the villager flipped. A player could argue...it wasn't my assumption but player X says his meta is this...lynch him instead. Just leads to more bickering and less observations.

 

Finally, you may label my play however you wish but I see your attempt to control the narrative with each and every post. "Refuse to talk...participate meaningfully". Nice work. False and futile but nice work.

How do you see yourself as helping to solve the game? When prompted, your responses are dismissive and your criticism of my play is best described as fearmongering. Stating my observations of your behavior are "false" and "futile" is a stonewall defense that doesn't help me understand your thought process and more importantly won't help anyone else understand your perspective. Let's say you're town -- based on your play, how is anyone to know? Your bravado is more likely to alienate you, which is -EV in a team based game.

Posted

Also, now that Lenlo flipped town, I'm starting to try and look at why there were only some very small trains.  Generally mafia would see a train like Lenlo's and slowly start pushing it.  Though that did happen at the end, I was a little confused on why it didn't happen earlier.  So I do support Csarmi's logic that the other major trains were likely town.

 

The unusualness of the buildup of the trains makes me think that most of the people that had voting pressure on them are not scum.  There maybe 1 of the people who were voted that is actually scum, and that person was probably not one of the people getting the most attention.  So who were the people getting the most bad attention yesterday?

 

TG

BFarmi

NotBob

Drunk Tank

 

I'm guessing that some of the people that were thought to be town were probably mafia, or at least some of the people not getting as much attention, so here's everyone else in the game besides the above

 

Darthe - I noticed some soft foses on him, but I think only one person ever voted him.

 

Vos - Vos and I had a little fight in the beginning, but after that, no one has really FoSed Vos that I know.  If he's mafia, he played it well, getting attention off of him before the lynch trains started, small as they were.  However, he didn't really seem to want to get rid of the attention, so he still looks somewhat good.

 

Tommy - TG has mentioned some of the problems Tommy has been having with overeagerness to clear himself, but Tommy has given some good reasons on why he has done so.  Plus, not really afraid of the attention.

 

Clov - Clov really hasn't done as much to get out there as others have.  Seems town, but hasn't put out strong polarizing opinions, could be mafia.

 

Nynlia - I understand that they're both busy, but again, the fact that they haven't done anything outstanding in terms of opinions, where they have ones that stand out against the general game flow, is not related to the amount that they post.  Plus I don't get why a bunch of people meta clear them since I'm not really too good with meta clear.

 

Mynd - Once again, he's not been afraid of attention, and for all the reasons before, I still strongly townread him.

 

So if we look at the people who haven't been getting a lot of attention and haven't risked getting a lot of scummy attention, then we are left with Darthe/Clov/Nynlia.

 

Lets say my name was Mynd.  I'd be pretty comfortable right now claiming dreamer and saying at least one of the above was scum.

Posted

 

Yes and no, we need meta on you not to think you're immediate scum because of you weird playstyle in relation to DM.  After we've gotten that done though, we should start using basic scumhunting logic.

 

What's so weird about his playstyle?

 

Trolling and joking for a little longer than other players (which causes serious players to FoS him) and then a quick switch to becoming serious, which is sometimes seen as scummy.

 

 

Yes and no, we need meta on you not to think you're immediate scum because of you weird playstyle in relation to DM.  After we've gotten that done though, we should start using basic scumhunting logic.

 

Again, more conversation directed at meta and "playstyle" instead of observation of the action in this game.  

 

FTR...I've played here consistently for over two years.  Plenty of source data should you or Tommy want to read those.  To rely on sample size of one game (the most recent yes) does not equate to a good analysis of my personality profile.

 

My problem is he want the assumptions of other rather than his own observations.  This allows a player to later excuse (disown) the conclusion when the analysis turns out wrong.

 

No I get what you're saying, I'm saying meta should be used to direct the logic and analysis of the actions in this game in the right direction.  Its basically a safety to make sure we're not casing things that you always do as town or mafia.

Posted

 

 

Yes and no, we need meta on you not to think you're immediate scum because of you weird playstyle in relation to DM. After we've gotten that done though, we should start using basic scumhunting logic.

Again, more conversation directed at meta and "playstyle" instead of observation of the action in this game.

 

FTR...I've played here consistently for over two years. Plenty of source data should you or Tommy want to read those. To rely on sample size of one game (the most recent yes) does not equate to a good analysis of my personality profile.

 

My problem is he want the assumptions of other rather than his own observations. This allows a player to later excuse (disown) the conclusion when the analysis turns out wrong.

This doesn't make sense. I'm trying to garner information on your alignment by asking other players for their experiences with you and their perception of your play in this game. Both are valid. Both are relevant. I'm trying to understand why I should read you as town; you're acting like I'm doing the opposite. If anything, this would put ME in a bad position if I were scum by coaxing people into convincing me you're town and then pushing your lynch. I can't blame anyone else for that, so I have no idea what your final point was meant to convey or how it applies to me.

Posted

 

 

 

 

Salami, what's the difference between his town and scum games? How do you tell? And I mean you personally.

Meta is one of the worse ways to hunt. No more accurate than most assumption based theories and applied to human behavior easy to manipulate. I realize we are in the early stages of this game and there is little other evidence to draw a conclusion but that's how this game rolls.
Meta as a crutch is likely bad but it works as a supplement and for certain players who are laughably bad as scum it can be a near perfect tell. But you realize you're saying Salami shouldn't be town reading you, right? Not sure what your point is. I'm trying to get him to help me understand you since you refuse to talk to me or participate meaningfully yet he thinks you're town.

I cannot speak for Salami and stop putting words in my mouth. Salami is reading me correctly. I am town.

 

My point is: you've done little other than try to discern my meta and then offer your own meta as a defense when your play comes across as sketchy. Not the best tactics.

 

You'd learn more about people through observation than assumptions especially the assumptions of others. I guess using assumption of others could give a player an out when the villager flipped. A player could argue...it wasn't my assumption but player X says his meta is this...lynch him instead. Just leads to more bickering and less observations.

 

Finally, you may label my play however you wish but I see your attempt to control the narrative with each and every post. "Refuse to talk...participate meaningfully". Nice work. False and futile but nice work.

How do you see yourself as helping to solve the game? When prompted, your responses are dismissive and your criticism of my play is best described as fearmongering. Stating my observations of your behavior are "false" and "futile" is a stonewall defense that doesn't help me understand your thought process and more importantly won't help anyone else understand your perspective. Let's say you're town -- based on your play, how is anyone to know? Your bravado is more likely to alienate you, which is -EV in a team based game.

 

 

I observe...I post my thought...I vote...how else?

 

I detect you just do not like my observations on your play...fine.

 

The game is young.  Stop tunneling and post more observations.  I'll try to do the same.

Posted

@NB - Trying to control the game flow is not alignment indicative for Tommy

@Tommy - Trollling is not alignment indicative for NB

 

 

you're both pretty

 

Posted

 

 

 

 

 

 

Salami, what's the difference between his town and scum games? How do you tell? And I mean you personally.

Meta is one of the worse ways to hunt. No more accurate than most assumption based theories and applied to human behavior easy to manipulate. I realize we are in the early stages of this game and there is little other evidence to draw a conclusion but that's how this game rolls.
Meta as a crutch is likely bad but it works as a supplement and for certain players who are laughably bad as scum it can be a near perfect tell. But you realize you're saying Salami shouldn't be town reading you, right? Not sure what your point is. I'm trying to get him to help me understand you since you refuse to talk to me or participate meaningfully yet he thinks you're town.
I cannot speak for Salami and stop putting words in my mouth. Salami is reading me correctly. I am town.

 

My point is: you've done little other than try to discern my meta and then offer your own meta as a defense when your play comes across as sketchy. Not the best tactics.

 

You'd learn more about people through observation than assumptions especially the assumptions of others. I guess using assumption of others could give a player an out when the villager flipped. A player could argue...it wasn't my assumption but player X says his meta is this...lynch him instead. Just leads to more bickering and less observations.

 

Finally, you may label my play however you wish but I see your attempt to control the narrative with each and every post. "Refuse to talk...participate meaningfully". Nice work. False and futile but nice work.

How do you see yourself as helping to solve the game? When prompted, your responses are dismissive and your criticism of my play is best described as fearmongering. Stating my observations of your behavior are "false" and "futile" is a stonewall defense that doesn't help me understand your thought process and more importantly won't help anyone else understand your perspective. Let's say you're town -- based on your play, how is anyone to know? Your bravado is more likely to alienate you, which is -EV in a team based game.

I observe...I post my thought...I vote...how else?

 

I detect you just do not like my observations on your play...fine.

 

The game is young. Stop tunneling and post more observations. I'll try to do the same.

I'm a tunneler by trade, and I'll throw that right back atcha.

 

Do you at least understand my problem with what you've put in the thread so far? Are you analyzing behind the scenes and are the type who keeps his reads close to the chest because he doesn't want to tip off scum? Maybe. I've seen those before. Are you just at a loss with the game so far? Maybe, but you've played with some of these guys before right? Are you tunneling on me because you're town who thinks he's seeing something shady in me or because you're scum and I became a consensus target around the time I voted you for no participation? How do I know? You're not giving us information to read you off of, not commenting on enough of the thread. One liners and jabs do not sway me. Unexplained votes do not sway me. Telling me not to tunnel you when it's exactly what you did to me will not sway me. But open communication and dialogue might.

Posted

The unusualness of the buildup of the trains makes me think that most of the people that had voting pressure on them are not scum.  There maybe 1 of the people who were voted that is actually scum, and that person was probably not one of the people getting the most attention.  So who were the people getting the most bad attention yesterday?

 

TG

BFarmi

NotBob

Drunk Tank

 

Is this list correct? Pretty sure Drunk Tank didn't have any votes on him. You could have a valid point here but I'd readjust the list to reflect it. I think a couple of people were tied with 2 votes before Lenlo's train grew. I'll look it up in a minute.

Posted

 

Official Vote Count-Day 1
 
BFArmi-(2/7)-Darthe, Vos, 
TG-(1/7)-Mynd
RandA lThor-(1/7)-Lenlo 
Lenlo-(2/7)-Drunk Tank, RandA lThor
Tommy-(1/7)-NotBob
Clov-(1/7)-Nynlia
NotBob-(2/7)-Clov, Tommy
Darthe-(1/7)-BFArmi
 
Not Voting(1/12)-TG
 
12 Alive, takes 7 to Lynch
 

 

 

This is the vote count before the shift in Len's train. Later on Mynd moved away from TG to Lenlo. Salami and Notbob followed later.

Posted

Also, now that Lenlo flipped town, I'm starting to try and look at why there were only some very small trains. Generally mafia would see a train like Lenlo's and slowly start pushing it. Though that did happen at the end, I was a little confused on why it didn't happen earlier. So I do support Csarmi's logic that the other major trains were likely town.

 

The unusualness of the buildup of the trains makes me think that most of the people that had voting pressure on them are not scum. There maybe 1 of the people who were voted that is actually scum, and that person was probably not one of the people getting the most attention. So who were the people getting the most bad attention yesterday?

 

TG

BFarmi

NotBob

Drunk Tank

 

I'm guessing that some of the people that were thought to be town were probably mafia, or at least some of the people not getting as much attention, so here's everyone else in the game besides the above

 

Darthe - I noticed some soft foses on him, but I think only one person ever voted him.

 

Vos - Vos and I had a little fight in the beginning, but after that, no one has really FoSed Vos that I know. If he's mafia, he played it well, getting attention off of him before the lynch trains started, small as they were. However, he didn't really seem to want to get rid of the attention, so he still looks somewhat good.

 

Tommy - TG has mentioned some of the problems Tommy has been having with overeagerness to clear himself, but Tommy has given some good reasons on why he has done so. Plus, not really afraid of the attention.

 

Clov - Clov really hasn't done as much to get out there as others have. Seems town, but hasn't put out strong polarizing opinions, could be mafia.

 

Nynlia - I understand that they're both busy, but again, the fact that they haven't done anything outstanding in terms of opinions, where they have ones that stand out against the general game flow, is not related to the amount that they post. Plus I don't get why a bunch of people meta clear them since I'm not really too good with meta clear.

 

Mynd - Once again, he's not been afraid of attention, and for all the reasons before, I still strongly townread him.

 

So if we look at the people who haven't been getting a lot of attention and haven't risked getting a lot of scummy attention, then we are left with Darthe/Clov/Nynlia.

 

Lets say my name was Mynd. I'd be pretty comfortable right now claiming dreamer and saying at least one of the above was scum.

I like most of this. Generally widespread wagons on D1 indicate no scum was in serious danger, though the odd deadline could be a factor. I disagree with clearing those four outright solely because they remained wagons. I think TG and Salami are likely townies but I have no love for the others. Once day breaks I think your list of those three subdued-on-D1 players make good candidates for pressure. I think of those three, Nynlia is most likely to be town, primarily for Nyn's trademark snark and the way she had zero self consciousness when I called her out on lurking early in the game. I still want to say Clov is town but I didn't care much for his defense of Darthe, which has been like his only contribution for the last ~36 hours.

Posted

 

 

 

Official Vote Count-Day 1

 

BFArmi-(2/7)-Darthe, Vos,

TG-(1/7)-Mynd

RandA lThor-(1/7)-Lenlo

Lenlo-(2/7)-Drunk Tank, RandA lThor

Tommy-(1/7)-NotBob

Clov-(1/7)-Nynlia

NotBob-(2/7)-Clov, Tommy

Darthe-(1/7)-BFArmi

 

Not Voting(1/12)-TG

 

12 Alive, takes 7 to Lynch

 

Deadline-http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140724T1715&p0=438&msg=End+of+Day+1&csz=1

 

This is the vote count before the shift in Len's train. Later on Mynd moved away from TG to Lenlo. Salami and Notbob followed later.

I thought I remembered Drunk being a wagon for a while with 2 votes. Can you pull up an older VC? I would but I'm on my phone.

Posted

 

 

 

 

 

 

Salami, what's the difference between his town and scum games? How do you tell? And I mean you personally.

Meta is one of the worse ways to hunt. No more accurate than most assumption based theories and applied to human behavior easy to manipulate. I realize we are in the early stages of this game and there is little other evidence to draw a conclusion but that's how this game rolls.
Meta as a crutch is likely bad but it works as a supplement and for certain players who are laughably bad as scum it can be a near perfect tell. But you realize you're saying Salami shouldn't be town reading you, right? Not sure what your point is. I'm trying to get him to help me understand you since you refuse to talk to me or participate meaningfully yet he thinks you're town.
I cannot speak for Salami and stop putting words in my mouth. Salami is reading me correctly. I am town.

 

My point is: you've done little other than try to discern my meta and then offer your own meta as a defense when your play comes across as sketchy. Not the best tactics.

 

You'd learn more about people through observation than assumptions especially the assumptions of others. I guess using assumption of others could give a player an out when the villager flipped. A player could argue...it wasn't my assumption but player X says his meta is this...lynch him instead. Just leads to more bickering and less observations.

 

Finally, you may label my play however you wish but I see your attempt to control the narrative with each and every post. "Refuse to talk...participate meaningfully". Nice work. False and futile but nice work.

How do you see yourself as helping to solve the game? When prompted, your responses are dismissive and your criticism of my play is best described as fearmongering. Stating my observations of your behavior are "false" and "futile" is a stonewall defense that doesn't help me understand your thought process and more importantly won't help anyone else understand your perspective. Let's say you're town -- based on your play, how is anyone to know? Your bravado is more likely to alienate you, which is -EV in a team based game.

I observe...I post my thought...I vote...how else?

 

I detect you just do not like my observations on your play...fine.

 

The game is young. Stop tunneling and post more observations. I'll try to do the same.

I'm a tunneler by trade, and I'll throw that right back atcha.

 

Do you at least understand my problem with what you've put in the thread so far? Are you analyzing behind the scenes and are the type who keeps his reads close to the chest because he doesn't want to tip off scum? Maybe. I've seen those before. Are you just at a loss with the game so far? Maybe, but you've played with some of these guys before right? Are you tunneling on me because you're town who thinks he's seeing something shady in me or because you're scum and I became a consensus target around the time I voted you for no participation? How do I know? You're not giving us information to read you off of, not commenting on enough of the thread. One liners and jabs do not sway me. Unexplained votes do not sway me. Telling me not to tunnel you when it's exactly what you did to me will not sway me. But open communication and dialogue might.

 

 

I conceded the first point when I said "I'll try to do the same".

 

I understand you do not like how I've approached this game...nothing new there...I have several players here whose play style does not meet how I prefer to see people play (they know who they are). 

 

I usually keep my reads close in the early stages...I've focus attention on you because you've set off numerous scum pings on my radar...you actually remind me of another I use to play with...another who tries to control the narrative...

 

Really do not care how you interpret my game play...it's how I roll...if the town found me unhelpful...or hurtful to town they will lynch me...you can continue to advocate my lynch or not...the town will ultimately decide.

 

Still early...plus it's night...not sure the value of continuing this conversation now.

Posted

 

 

Official Vote Count-Day 1
 
BFArmi-(2/7)-Darthe, Vos, 
TG-(1/7)-Mynd
RandA lThor-(1/7)-Lenlo 
Lenlo-(2/7)-Drunk Tank, RandA lThor
Tommy-(1/7)-NotBob
Clov-(1/7)-Nynlia
NotBob-(2/7)-Clov, Tommy
Darthe-(1/7)-BFArmi
 
Not Voting(1/12)-TG
 
12 Alive, takes 7 to Lynch
 

 

 

This is the vote count before the shift in Len's train. Later on Mynd moved away from TG to Lenlo. Salami and Notbob followed later.

 

 

I was hoping for more suspiciousness here, but no one else did anything.  Salami and Notbob's vote on Lenlo can be argued and dismissed as self-preservation, as NB even says as much.  I moved from TG to Lenlo because he was my #2 and I felt the most confident of the three mini-trains that he would flip scum. 

 

I'm curious as to why your vote remained squarely on Clov since it was clear that train was not leaving the station.

Posted

I was hoping for more suspiciousness here, but no one else did anything.  Salami and Notbob's vote on Lenlo can be argued and dismissed as self-preservation, as NB even says as much.  I moved from TG to Lenlo because he was my #2 and I felt the most confident of the three mini-trains that he would flip scum. 

 

I'm curious as to why your vote remained squarely on Clov since it was clear that train was not leaving the station.

 

 

Why was it clear? There was loads of time till the deadline when I placed my vote on Clov. And I wasn't around when the deadline hit.

 

Clov is currently at the top of my scum list. I would have settled for DT too but since everyone is being so accommodating to newbies lately, I decided it wasn't worth the argument. There are a couple of other people that were wary about Clov, like TG. Was hoping they'd switch to him. Since there was no train with an abundance of votes, I was hopeful. 

Posted

 

Also, now that Lenlo flipped town, I'm starting to try and look at why there were only some very small trains. Generally mafia would see a train like Lenlo's and slowly start pushing it. Though that did happen at the end, I was a little confused on why it didn't happen earlier. So I do support Csarmi's logic that the other major trains were likely town.

 

The unusualness of the buildup of the trains makes me think that most of the people that had voting pressure on them are not scum. There maybe 1 of the people who were voted that is actually scum, and that person was probably not one of the people getting the most attention. So who were the people getting the most bad attention yesterday?

 

TG

BFarmi

NotBob

Drunk Tank

 

I'm guessing that some of the people that were thought to be town were probably mafia, or at least some of the people not getting as much attention, so here's everyone else in the game besides the above

 

Darthe - I noticed some soft foses on him, but I think only one person ever voted him.

 

Vos - Vos and I had a little fight in the beginning, but after that, no one has really FoSed Vos that I know. If he's mafia, he played it well, getting attention off of him before the lynch trains started, small as they were. However, he didn't really seem to want to get rid of the attention, so he still looks somewhat good.

 

Tommy - TG has mentioned some of the problems Tommy has been having with overeagerness to clear himself, but Tommy has given some good reasons on why he has done so. Plus, not really afraid of the attention.

 

Clov - Clov really hasn't done as much to get out there as others have. Seems town, but hasn't put out strong polarizing opinions, could be mafia.

 

Nynlia - I understand that they're both busy, but again, the fact that they haven't done anything outstanding in terms of opinions, where they have ones that stand out against the general game flow, is not related to the amount that they post. Plus I don't get why a bunch of people meta clear them since I'm not really too good with meta clear.

 

Mynd - Once again, he's not been afraid of attention, and for all the reasons before, I still strongly townread him.

 

So if we look at the people who haven't been getting a lot of attention and haven't risked getting a lot of scummy attention, then we are left with Darthe/Clov/Nynlia.

 

Lets say my name was Mynd. I'd be pretty comfortable right now claiming dreamer and saying at least one of the above was scum.

I like most of this. Generally widespread wagons on D1 indicate no scum was in serious danger, though the odd deadline could be a factor. I disagree with clearing those four outright solely because they remained wagons. I think TG and Salami are likely townies but I have no love for the others. Once day breaks I think your list of those three subdued-on-D1 players make good candidates for pressure. I think of those three, Nynlia is most likely to be town, primarily for Nyn's trademark snark and the way she had zero self consciousness when I called her out on lurking early in the game. I still want to say Clov is town but I didn't care much for his defense of Darthe, which has been like his only contribution for the last ~36 hours.

 

I'm not cleraing those outright either, which is why I said minimum of 1 and not 2 for the three names I posted.  I just think its less likely that they are mafia then I thought before, and they're on my townreads now.  That's a mutable position though.

 

Nyn snark is there, but last game it was there too, I'm pretty sure that's just Nyn as a person lol, not alignment indicative.

 

Also, I thought for sure DT had a bw at some point too, but I guess not.  Then he goes on the other list, but again, he wasn't really afraid of pressure or attention, so I'd lean town on him as well.  Of course with all the lean towns I have, one of thems almost assuredly scum.

Posted

Nyn snark is there, but last game it was there too, I'm pretty sure that's just Nyn as a person lol, not alignment indicative.

 

Yep

Posted

 

 

 

Official Vote Count-Day 1

 

BFArmi-(2/7)-Darthe, Vos,

TG-(2/7)-Mynd, Tommy

RandA lThor-(1/7)-Lenlo

Lenlo-(2/7)-Drunk Tank, RandA lThor

Tommy-(2/7)-NotBob, TG

 

Not Voting(2/12)- Clov, Nynlia

 

12 Alive, takes 7 to Lynch

 

Deadline-http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140724T1715&p0=438&msg=End+of+Day+1

Woot I'm lock clear as per Randian Wagon Theory

 

lol read the above, not lock clear, but you are on my townreads list.

Posted

I've just realized that your reads depend on time and events. It can be written as a function of them: R(T, E). Yea, we're getting very scientific over there with BFG.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...