[Basic]TRON Mafia Game-Day 4

[Tommyrod]

Wish you guys had consolidated onto NB. Not sure what you see in him. Salami. Len was pretty null on tone, apparently his petulance is a town tell for him. Add it to the file.

 

Spread wagons throughout the day suggest low scum wagon participation. People like Drunk, NB, Darthe -- those not feeling around for pressure points and reactions.

[Nynaeve]

To reference a previous mafia game that shall not be named, I noticed that Dawn (who was mafia) seemed a lot more confident and her posts made a lot more sense than normal.  I FOS'd her as to being coached by fellow mafia players because....she made too much sense.  Although she denied it, sure enough....she was mafia.  Granted, I think I did more damage to the town than the mafia did in that game, but still, I was right.  People tend to post differently when they have other people in their ear.

 

That's a terrible example, actually. She was mafia but she wasn't coached. I spent most of the time conveniently forgetting she was in our team lol  So the conclusion was correct, I guess, but the reason was false. Plus Dawn is not new to DM anymore so I don't see how this is related.

[Nynaeve]

I completely disagree, btw. In my opinion DT exhibited quite a bit of familiarity until he got stumped. 

[Nynaeve]

Wish you guys had consolidated onto NB. Not sure what you see in him. 

 

That's a terrible thing to say!

[Tommyrod]

 

 

 

 

@Rand, @Mynd - how do you guys feel about Drunk?

He seems to be keeping pace with the game alright. I was hoping he would have answered my question by now seeing as he was just here. I wanted his response BEFORE I moved my vote to Lenlo to try and see where he tried to steer me. He hasn't really done anything scummy that others haven't already done in this game. Not unvoting Lenlo could mean that he is mafia with NotBob and you (or one of the two of you); however, he strikes me as not only new to the culture here at DM but obviously working alone, therefore not on anyone's mafia QT.

Mynd,

 

What makes you think this?

If Drunk Tank was on a mafia QT, I would think he'd be getting advice from other players on how to blend in better with the rest of us. Maybe I'm reading too much into him, but his posts don't seem coached. If a new to DM player acted more comfortable than he/she should, I would suspect them to be mafia with others who are more familiar with DM to be whispering in his/her ear. His posts strike me as one who is making his own cases and not really working with anyone else.

 

I guess I would expect a DM outsider who is playing his/her first mafia game here to either act exactly like an outsider (as he seems to be) or act all too comfortable here (like one who has a mafia QT would do).

 

To reference a previous mafia game that shall not be named, I noticed that Dawn (who was mafia) seemed a lot more confident and her posts made a lot more sense than normal. I FOS'd her as to being coached by fellow mafia players because....she made too much sense. Although she denied it, sure enough....she was mafia. Granted, I think I did more damage to the town than the mafia did in that game, but still, I was right. People tend to post differently when they have other people in their ear.

 

Or play mafia like me and ignore the Mafia QT until you have to apologize for getting the whole team screwed.

Yes and no. Yes I agree his approach would be unusual for scum as I mentioned earlier in the game. No I don't think it's innately clearing for him given he failed to develop at all. His reads lists were not explained. His vote on Lenlo was bad and never reconsidered. In one word, his approach has been passive. I'm also not convinced he's actually an outsider, but that's my personal tinfoil based on the previous game he linked to.

[Tommyrod]

I completely disagree, btw. In my opinion DT exhibited quite a bit of familiarity until he got stumped.

Yeah, I saw that too.

 

I'm gonna need to run to the store for more Reynolds wrap.

[csarmi]

Wish you guys had consolidated onto NB. Not sure what you see in him. Salami. Len was pretty null on tone, apparently his petulance is a town tell for him. Add it to the file.

 

Spread wagons throughout the day suggest low scum wagon participation. People like Drunk, NB, Darthe -- those not feeling around for pressure points and reactions.

Look up NB's games and you'll see. I really can't tell you - show you maybe but I won't have the energy to sit down and grab posts from games for you.

 

He is very hard to read, but what I've seen so far I associate with his town game. Len's been nullish yes and I still gold that he can be read on day two the best by how he follows up on his game.

[Tommyrod]

Salami, what's the difference between his town and scum games? How do you tell? And I mean you personally.

[csarmi]

Ooooooooh. THIS is horrribad!

 

 

@Rand: scum team if Len flips town?

This smells like a post setting us all up for Len to actually flip town. It is as if BeefArmi already knows who the scummies and townies are.

I'll be around. Not very happy with a Len lynch but it could be worse I suppose. BFG is also up, but she can only access the QT now cause her net is horrible at work.

Another set up for a townie Lenlo lynch post. "I'm not happy with this......" If Lenlo flips scum, would you still not be happy with it?

We can still do the right thing and lynch scum!Darthe?

So, lynching Lenlo is the wrong thing how?

 

Beefarmi, your last minute posts just before deadline seem a bit frantic.

 

From my POV as a townie, if Lenlo flips town on D1, it isn't gonna crush our game. Sure, it sucks to lose a townie, but we will at least get some good info on a very muddled D1 vote count. Besides, he's my second scummy read at this point and I stand behind my reasons for voting him. I would have rather lynched TG because scumbad; however, my #2 scumbad being lynched and his alignment revealed, either way, will help me consolidate my previous reads better.

 

I am wary of anyone who goes out of their way to post how they don't agree with the lynch but they are humbly and regretfully lynching them for the greater good. Those people are usually scumbads trying to explain why they have a vote on a player they know will flip town BEFORE they do.

This sounds genuine.

[csarmi]

Salami, what's the difference between his town and scum games? How do you tell? And I mean you personally.

I dunno if I can put that into words. He's trolling in a different way. I'm no expert reading him. Gut says town here. A very light green pile.

[Tommyrod]

 

Salami, what's the difference between his town and scum games? How do you tell? And I mean you personally.

I dunno if I can put that into words. He's trolling in a different way. I'm no expert reading him. Gut says town here. A very light green pile.

Okay. Corollary question: which players here do you feel more confident in reading and where do you stand on them given the info that Len was town?

[Myndrunner]

 

To reference a previous mafia game that shall not be named, I noticed that Dawn (who was mafia) seemed a lot more confident and her posts made a lot more sense than normal.  I FOS'd her as to being coached by fellow mafia players because....she made too much sense.  Although she denied it, sure enough....she was mafia.  Granted, I think I did more damage to the town than the mafia did in that game, but still, I was right.  People tend to post differently when they have other people in their ear.

 

That's a terrible example, actually. She was mafia but she wasn't coached. I spent most of the time conveniently forgetting she was in our team lol  So the conclusion was correct, I guess, but the reason was false. Plus Dawn is not new to DM anymore so I don't see how this is related.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

@Rand, @Mynd - how do you guys feel about Drunk?

He seems to be keeping pace with the game alright. I was hoping he would have answered my question by now seeing as he was just here. I wanted his response BEFORE I moved my vote to Lenlo to try and see where he tried to steer me. He hasn't really done anything scummy that others haven't already done in this game. Not unvoting Lenlo could mean that he is mafia with NotBob and you (or one of the two of you); however, he strikes me as not only new to the culture here at DM but obviously working alone, therefore not on anyone's mafia QT.

Mynd,

 

What makes you think this?

If Drunk Tank was on a mafia QT, I would think he'd be getting advice from other players on how to blend in better with the rest of us. Maybe I'm reading too much into him, but his posts don't seem coached. If a new to DM player acted more comfortable than he/she should, I would suspect them to be mafia with others who are more familiar with DM to be whispering in his/her ear. His posts strike me as one who is making his own cases and not really working with anyone else.

 

I guess I would expect a DM outsider who is playing his/her first mafia game here to either act exactly like an outsider (as he seems to be) or act all too comfortable here (like one who has a mafia QT would do).

 

To reference a previous mafia game that shall not be named, I noticed that Dawn (who was mafia) seemed a lot more confident and her posts made a lot more sense than normal. I FOS'd her as to being coached by fellow mafia players because....she made too much sense. Although she denied it, sure enough....she was mafia. Granted, I think I did more damage to the town than the mafia did in that game, but still, I was right. People tend to post differently when they have other people in their ear.

 

Or play mafia like me and ignore the Mafia QT until you have to apologize for getting the whole team screwed.

Yes and no. Yes I agree his approach would be unusual for scum as I mentioned earlier in the game. No I don't think it's innately clearing for him given he failed to develop at all. His reads lists were not explained. His vote on Lenlo was bad and never reconsidered. In one word, his approach has been passive. I'm also not convinced he's actually an outsider, but that's my personal tinfoil based on the previous game he linked to.

 

You are right, it shouldn't clear him.  It does bother me that he was around for the deadline and refused to 1) answer my question and 2) consider changing his vote.  I'm having a hard time reading anyone as town in this game.  Maybe I've grown too paranoid or being too obtuse about who qualifies as slightly town, but dammit everyone in this game so far has done something to make me read town and something that makes me read scum. 

 

Putting myself in Drunk Tank's shoes as I read his posts, I can see a new to DM player responding the way he has.   His recent actions (or inactions) have me a bit concerned.

 

You should see my tinfoil crown and suit of armor.  Still, just because a theory may seem wild and off-base, it doesn't make it untrue. 

[Myndrunner]

 

Salami, what's the difference between his town and scum games? How do you tell? And I mean you personally.

I dunno if I can put that into words. He's trolling in a different way. I'm no expert reading him. Gut says town here. A very light green pile.

 

 

I just want to point out that Csarmi has called Not Bob a very light green pile.  heh heh.

[csarmi]

I'm confident in our Nyn/Hally read (I think I can read Hally's tone and BFG started feeling much better about Nyn around the time I started feeling confident in town!Hally - initially we'd both been wary of them). In the longterm I think I could tell a Nyn!scum but not sure cause I didn't really meet one (one that was fully engaged playing that time).

 

I'm fairly confident I'm not misreading Darthe here. Whether I can read him in general... maybe? Tending to be right on him.

 

The rest are hard.

 

I think you (Tommy) are town, reading through the thread I've often felt you saying my thoughts (mindmeld).

 

I think NotBob's town and the scum were in no real danger in being lynched hence the low trains. That's my level 0 take on it. I hope BFG will have the time for a good vote analysis (we are quite important in this position cause we've been one of the 2-sized trains and we have our alignment). I'm wrecked for today, took home early from work and gonan rest now.

[Myndrunner]

And I was supposed to also address Nyn two posts ago and forgot.  Dang it.

 

You can't help but influence Dawn's decisions in that game.  Her gameplay was different because she was mafia, coaching or not.  She had other players backing her  up and, whether it was your intention to or not, reading your thoughts on the mafia qt, I am sure it helped her make better posts.  Like it or not, truth is she had to be influenced by your posts in one way or another just by being a part of the qt.

 

That's the axiom of all mafia games.  The mafia know who they are and that they are scum.  They tend to act differently when mafia. 

 

Which is why this game is driving me nuts.   Can I vote like 10 people at once tomorrow?

[Nynaeve]

I just want to point out that Csarmi has called Not Bob a very light green pile.  heh heh.

 

xD

[Myndrunner]

I'm confident in our Nyn/Hally read (I think I can read Hally's tone and BFG started feeling much better about Nyn around the time I started feeling confident in town!Hally - initially we'd both been wary of them). In the longterm I think I could tell a Nyn!scum but not sure cause I didn't really meet one (one that was fully engaged playing that time).

 

I'm fairly confident I'm not misreading Darthe here. Whether I can read him in general... maybe? Tending to be right on him.

 

The rest are hard.

 

I think you (Tommy) are town, reading through the thread I've often felt you saying my thoughts (mindmeld).

 

I think NotBob's town and the scum were in no real danger in being lynched hence the low trains. That's my level 0 take on it. I hope BFG will have the time for a good vote analysis (we are quite important in this position cause we've been one of the 2-sized trains and we have our alignment). I'm wrecked for today, took home early from work and gonan rest now.

 

You see, this is what I am talking about right here!!!!   Right when Csarmi has me leaning town with him, he goes and posts this crap.  Seeing that he was, in fact, one of those trains, he is implying that none of them (including himself) were scum.  Then he backs off that comment's validity by saying its only his "level 0" take on it.  

 

Part of me says "Of course, the scum don't want to commit to any of those lynches because when the flip town, the would be on every ones radar."  Reads town.

 

The other part of me says "These are the things scum say after they avoid a lynch.  Remember how desperate Salami was right before deadline? Why didn't he choose NotBob?  Why did he seem sure Lenlo would flip town?"  Reads scum.

 

Bloody Goatnuggets, I have become my own Hydra!!!

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

Salami, what's the difference between his town and scum games? How do you tell? And I mean you personally.

 

Meta is one of the worse ways to hunt.  No more accurate than most assumption based theories and applied to human behavior easy to manipulate.  I realize we are in the early stages of this game and there is little other evidence to draw a conclusion but that's how this game rolls.

 

  

[csarmi]

Level 0 take as in I didn't have time to analyse it or talk it over with the Brains of our Hydra (bow you know what B means in BFG)

[Tommyrod]

Mynd, your introspection and self conflict reads as very townie to me, or at least a convincing emulation of that inner struggle.

 

I think Salami is town, if that helps you.

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

 

Salami, what's the difference between his town and scum games? How do you tell? And I mean you personally.

I dunno if I can put that into words. He's trolling in a different way. I'm no expert reading him. Gut says town here. A very light green pile.

 

 

i lol'd

[Tommyrod]

 

 

Salami, what's the difference between his town and scum games? How do you tell? And I mean you personally.

Meta is one of the worse ways to hunt. No more accurate than most assumption based theories and applied to human behavior easy to manipulate. I realize we are in the early stages of this game and there is little other evidence to draw a conclusion but that's how this game rolls.

 

Meta as a crutch is likely bad but it works as a supplement and for certain players who are laughably bad as scum it can be a near perfect tell. But you realize you're saying Salami shouldn't be town reading you, right? Not sure what your point is. I'm trying to get him to help me understand you since you refuse to talk to me or participate meaningfully yet he thinks you're town.

[RandA lThor]

 

 

 

 

@Rand, @Mynd - how do you guys feel about Drunk?

He seems to be keeping pace with the game alright. I was hoping he would have answered my question by now seeing as he was just here. I wanted his response BEFORE I moved my vote to Lenlo to try and see where he tried to steer me. He hasn't really done anything scummy that others haven't already done in this game. Not unvoting Lenlo could mean that he is mafia with NotBob and you (or one of the two of you); however, he strikes me as not only new to the culture here at DM but obviously working alone, therefore not on anyone's mafia QT.

Mynd,

 

What makes you think this?

If Drunk Tank was on a mafia QT, I would think he'd be getting advice from other players on how to blend in better with the rest of us. Maybe I'm reading too much into him, but his posts don't seem coached. If a new to DM player acted more comfortable than he/she should, I would suspect them to be mafia with others who are more familiar with DM to be whispering in his/her ear. His posts strike me as one who is making his own cases and not really working with anyone else.

 

I guess I would expect a DM outsider who is playing his/her first mafia game here to either act exactly like an outsider (as he seems to be) or act all too comfortable here (like one who has a mafia QT would do).

 

To reference a previous mafia game that shall not be named, I noticed that Dawn (who was mafia) seemed a lot more confident and her posts made a lot more sense than normal. I FOS'd her as to being coached by fellow mafia players because....she made too much sense. Although she denied it, sure enough....she was mafia. Granted, I think I did more damage to the town than the mafia did in that game, but still, I was right. People tend to post differently when they have other people in their ear.

 

Or play mafia like me and ignore the Mafia QT until you have to apologize for getting the whole team screwed.

Yes and no. Yes I agree his approach would be unusual for scum as I mentioned earlier in the game. No I don't think it's innately clearing for him given he failed to develop at all. His reads lists were not explained. His vote on Lenlo was bad and never reconsidered. In one word, his approach has been passive. I'm also not convinced he's actually an outsider, but that's my personal tinfoil based on the previous game he linked to.

 

To Mynd's point: That makes sense, but I'm not sure how much having fellow teammates would help him blend in to DM.  If he's played mafia before, then he already has his own playstyle, and he'll probably keep playing that way, since its hard to change it really fast.  Plus, blending into DM takes awhile, not really something that's immediately taught.

 

Salami, what's the difference between his town and scum games? How do you tell? And I mean you personally.

He does the same trolling and short posts and so on as town and scum, you just have to look at his logic and what he's doing, and then use classic scumhunting tecniques to see whether thats helping or hurting town.

 

The way he plays though he does appear to generally be helping town even as scum, so its a little hard to read him, you have to look at the more subtle things he's doing.  For example, when he was SK in the last game I played with him, he saved me from getting lynched by bringing up information on my role, which generally only town would do.

 

 

Salami, what's the difference between his town and scum games? How do you tell? And I mean you personally.

 

Meta is one of the worse ways to hunt.  No more accurate than most assumption based theories and applied to human behavior easy to manipulate.  I realize we are in the early stages of this game and there is little other evidence to draw a conclusion but that's how this game rolls.

 

  

 

Yes and no, we need meta on you not to think you're immediate scum because of you weird playstyle in relation to DM.  After we've gotten that done though, we should start using basic scumhunting logic.

[Nynaeve]

Yes and no, we need meta on you not to think you're immediate scum because of you weird playstyle in relation to DM.  After we've gotten that done though, we should start using basic scumhunting logic.

 

What's so weird about his playstyle?

[鲍勃不是我的名字]

 

 

Salami, what's the difference between his town and scum games? How do you tell? And I mean you personally.

Meta is one of the worse ways to hunt. No more accurate than most assumption based theories and applied to human behavior easy to manipulate. I realize we are in the early stages of this game and there is little other evidence to draw a conclusion but that's how this game rolls.

 

Meta as a crutch is likely bad but it works as a supplement and for certain players who are laughably bad as scum it can be a near perfect tell. But you realize you're saying Salami shouldn't be town reading you, right? Not sure what your point is. I'm trying to get him to help me understand you since you refuse to talk to me or participate meaningfully yet he thinks you're town.

 

 

I cannot speak for Salami and stop putting words in my mouth.  Salami is reading me correctly.  I am town.  

 

My point is: you've done little other than try to discern my meta and then offer your own meta as a defense when your play comes across as sketchy.  Not the best tactics. 

 

You'd learn more about people through observation than assumptions especially the assumptions of others.  I guess using assumption of others could give a player an out when the villager flipped.  A player could argue...it wasn't my assumption but player X says his meta is this...lynch him instead.  Just leads to more bickering and less observations.

 

Finally, you may label my play however you wish but I see your attempt to control the narrative with each and every post.  "Refuse to talk...participate meaningfully".  Nice work.  False and futile but nice work.