[Advanced] Red Wedding Mafia - Post Game, MakersMark

[Tommyrod]

AJ, you may be right about Verb. Someone said he slanks on D1, but I remember him still being interested in D1 discussion in a previous game. Hoping to see some chutzpah from him today.

 

I guess I'll re-read, shouldn't be too bad, the thread is about 50% spam I think

[Tommyrod]

Oh, and why a janitor? It creates infinite WIFOM. If DesBat has a PR, scum can claim it easily. But it also casts doubt on future claims, because... what if it was DesBat's role?

It's sneaky good fun.

[Andrej]

The biggest thing that I remember was Tina's vote on the Red wagon post-claim from D1. It bothered me then, I'm gonna grab it and bring it up actually.

 

Their quietness doesn't sit well. I know a lot will say that usually Verb doesn't get too involved D1, but even after his 'catch-up' he had nothing to add which isn't a good sign IMO.

[Andrej]

Oh, and why a janitor? It creates infinite WIFOM. If DesBat has a PR, scum can claim it easily. But it also casts doubt on future claims, because... what if it was DesBat's role?

 

It's sneaky good fun.

 

My thoughts exactly.

[Tommyrod]

This game is mafia versus town.  There are five mafia.  They have safe claims.  They win by outnumbering the town.  Town wins by eliminating all mafia.  There is no tomfoolery in this game.

This confirms there's no third party (therefore no SK)... I think.

[Andrej]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Red your reasoning for continuing to vote me makes approximately zero sense. You have an apparent scum suspect in Mish yet you are voting me "for reactions." The reactions you're getting are from probtownies who recognize this is my obvtown game.

Try again.

 

red - mutli taskign and casing multiple people is good.

 

you're reaction to a single vote is scummy.  you've done nothing scum hunting wise, you've only had cheerleading support for the case building on Mish, and you blatantly wagon a person with the longest train with no other reason than OMGUS and people are defending you.

 

to quote Hamlet's mother "the lady doth protest too much, me thinks,"

 

blue - the only perosn i trust in this game is myself.

 

pink - meta isn't a good defense and i dont buy it, nor do i use it to determine the scumminess ot towness of a person. 

 

green - nah i'm good.

 

 

This is garbage.  You've completely destroyed the credibility of your vote on Tommy, so any reactions you get from it are null.  Why aren't you voting Mish?

 

 

the vote itself and the reactions to the vote are independent.  the defense of tom started before i had a chance to explain my vote as people saw AJ calling it a joke vote and assumed thats what it was.

 

as for not voting Mish, a few reasons.

 

- reactions i'm getting from my current vote

-  deadline is far enough off, so no real reason to move my vote imo. 

- moving my vote would be seen more like trying to cover my ass than apply pressure on Mish,

- we need more than just two trains and two cases (if you could call the case agaisnt me a case) going on, i'd really like to see a third train tbh and a few more cases.

 

but i get your point womby and heres a question for you.  why do you still have your vote on me considering your intital vote was a reaction test?   (n/m i sa where you changed yer vote,  yay for the vote thingy deciding to work today.  )why aren't you also casing Mish and others?  why are you defending Dawn?   

 

 

Also, I think you guys are a bit too harsh on Dawn atm.  She rolled mafia her first two games, so her town game probably isn't that developed yet.  She's a quick learner, but I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt atm.

 

mafia is a game of hard knocks. you learn best by learning from your failures.  this is no reason, imo, to go easy on a person.  if her mistakes aren't pointed out to her and she doesn't get pressure over them, how can she grow as a player and evovle her game

 

 

 

 

I brought up Des because he is acting to seriously out of meta it's worrying. He usually comes in big, with tons of quotes and immediatly sets himself up as town leader. Here, he threw a half-hearted FoS at Red, and then starting nattering about off-topic stuff. I noted it and I want to see what he says about and how he acts next time he gets on. If he doesn't pick it up, I'll be all over his game.

 

 

This is lame btw, especially because I have almost four times the content Des does and you just got through telling us how we should be looking at both heads of a hydra.

 

 

bold - which is a surprise in itself.

 

 

 

you seem rather intent on sweeping it back under the rug.  makes me really curious as to why that is and what your true motive was for doing it in the first place.

Do I? Is that why I called you out on it rather than ignore it - the way everyone else has? So let me ask you this; what do *YOU* think is my motivation for claiming vanilla so early? Do you think I'm trying to draw a night action by claiming I have no night action? What has me curious is your response to what should have been a fairly innocuous post when read in context.

Let me ask you straight up - do you think early claiming is alignment indicative?

 

 

blue - i'm not gonna WIFOM with you on this.  only you know what your true motivation was   

 

 

as for the other, not necessarily, but i question it none the less

 

 

You´re vote on Tom was initially because you thought he claimed a bad character. First - I think it was clear that he didn´t claim that character. Second - why would he claim a bad character at all? Third - I don´t even remember that person being at the Red Wedding. In short, this must be a fabricated reason to vote. 

 

Now, you keep your vote on him because you want to see others reactions? What kind of reactions have you gotten so far?

 

"moving my vote would be seen more like trying to cover my ass than apply pressure on Mish,"  - 

 

So Mish is still you´re biggest suspect even though you are voting Tom?

 

"we need more than just two trains and two cases (if you could call the case agaisnt me a case) "

 

I definitely think there is a case against you, a good one. It looks like you´re just trying to brush it off, just like when you said that Tom´s vote is a simple OMGUS vote.

 

 

Unvote. Vote Red.

 

 

 

This was right before Red claimed, I had that mixed up. This doesn't look as bad as I had originally thought... but basically she is just repeating what others have already said about Red and agreeing with them. Easy sheep vote potential here, sort of null though.

[Myndrunner]

EWBOP: It isn't just that you are suggesting different or other possibilities. It is that you are suggesting things that are so FAR OUT that it stretches credibility that they would come from a townie POV. It's nothing personal, but you are serving as a big distraction IMO.

 

Fair enough.  I'll back off.  Some folks reactions were quite antagonistic so I felt like I was onto something.  I never felt it was personal.  If it is indeed distracting, I'll back off.

 

I have to remember that I haven't played this game in a long while, as opposed to most of you.  I also don't have the time and energy that I used to have when I played regularly.  What I was suggesting made sense to me, (the hydra thing still does) but I will drop it.  I've apparently a lot more rust on my blade than I thought, hence the outcome of the Ancient Civs game. ;)

 

Anyways, I'm ET and I am a VT.  I'm gonna step away for a bit and come back later with fresh eyes. 

[Nynaeve]

Mynd always thinks outside the box. It's not what's bothering me.

 

What bothers me is his suggestion that scum shot Nolder to thin out our two top suspects so Mynd would get speedlynched today. Assuming Mynd is town, scum would just step aside and let us do the work for them. Weren't there like two attempts to speedlynch Mynd on day 1? It's not like any encouragement was needed. Not to mention that they would happily let us waste a lynch on Nolder.

 

It mostly looks like you're worried that now that Nolder is out of the picture you're pretty much screwed.

 

 

Besides... since when do you take things personally, Mynd? :P

 

 

 

Nyn

[Tommyrod]

Mynd, I am not trying to be mean when I say your posting started out funny and has since given me a headache. I definitely would appreciate if you stuck to basics instead of coming up with this "gadgeting" as Des called it. Your current rhetoric serves as a distraction and clouds your own attempt at gamesolving... and by that I mean it makes it difficult for me to discern whether you truly believe what you're saying or are just trying to stir up trouble. I've met anti-consensus players before, but not this far off the reservation. You're in the ocean.

[Tommyrod]

Mynd always thinks outside the box. It's not what's bothering me.

 

What bothers me is his suggestion that scum shot Nolder to thin out our two top suspects so Mynd would get speedlynched today. Assuming Mynd is town, scum would just step aside and let us do the work for them. Weren't there like two attempts to speedlynch Mynd on day 1? It's not like any encouragement was needed. Not to mention that they would happily let us waste a lynch on Nolder.

 

It mostly looks like you're worried that now that Nolder is out of the picture you're pretty much screwed.

 

 

Besides... since when do you take things personally, Mynd? :P

 

 

 

Nyn

Is that what he was getting at? That's even worse than what I thought.

[Nynaeve]

That's what I understood.

 

 

 

 

Nyn

[Tommyrod]

@Darthe, what kinda drinks you like? I got wine, wine, wine in front of me and the best, wine in front of him.

Janitor breadcrumbs!

[Nynaeve]

My take is that the mafia targeted Nolder based on DesBat's scum list.  Guess who is second on that list?  Me.  I'll bet Desbat was part of the scum team, took out Nolder counting on a speed lynch on myself on D2. 

 

 

That's what it sounds like to me. He points out he's second on the list. He claims Desbat is scum who put him on that list on purpose. Then they take out Nolder... so he gets speedlynched on day 2.

 

 

 

 

Nyn

[Tommyrod]

 

My take is that the mafia targeted Nolder based on DesBat's scum list.  Guess who is second on that list?  Me.  I'll bet Desbat was part of the scum team, took out Nolder counting on a speed lynch on myself on D2. 

 

 

That's what it sounds like to me. He points out he's second on the list. He claims Desbat is scum who put him on that list on purpose. Then they take out Nolder... so he gets speedlynched on day 2.

 

 

Nyn

 

 

That's either some top tier paranoid logic or some bottom barrel B.S. I've never seen a scumteam throw away mislynches to secure another lynch. It doesn't happen.

[Tommyrod]

well lads, ladies, gents and wombats i'm off to bed.  i got 3 hours last night and a calc exam tomorrow so aduie and fare thee well till the morrow breaks and the song birds sing to thee fair graces.

 

anon and adue i say, anon and fare thee well

 

*bows out*

 

I always like these "here's my upcoming schedule and scumscuses for being gone" posts. Nobody cares. It just makes you look self conscious (in a scummy way).

[Nynaeve]

Well here's my issue. Mynd BSes a lot with his theories, but they're well thought out. I'll give him that. Even when I don't agree with him, which I often don't.

 

What he did there with his own interpretation of the two deaths looks like Mynd flailing :P 

 

 

 

 

Nyn

[Tommyrod]

Greetings. This game looks promising.

 

If this isn't some sort of running gag then I dislike this OP from Cloud. The game did not look promising at the time. It was spam.

[Andrej]

 

 

Get better, Zanube! 

 

 

In the last vc my vote apparently wasn´t´counted. IDK if I voted wrong or if Darthe didn´t see it.

 

##Unvote. Vote Red

 

Except for my previous reasons: I don´t like the betting part. It is outside the spirit of the game. Not sure why you brought it up. 

 

I must say that I don´t actually understand all of Yates posts. Could be bad English comprehension but I think I understand everyone else so far. For example, I don´t understand the nk part. 

 

 

I´m so sorry for not being active enough. I´ve had a really tough weak at work and yesterday I worked in the evening as well. My daughter is going to a disco in two hours so I will catch up then. 

I don't know why but this really made me laugh. A disco? 

 

:D Yes. And on top of it, it´s a masquerade. As a good daughter she is dressed up as a medieval lady. 

 

 

Nyn - we have played together before. As far as I can remember - DPR´s alt game and some other game where you was replaced. I think we played in some when I was new as well. 

 

I would rather lynch Red since I have a scum read on her. I´m not sure where I stand on Mistress but I´m leaning town. The most scummy about them was the first post by Mish, who then kind of handed it over to Tress. But since then I think they have looked town. Not that it has anything to do with alignment but I know that Mish is like me, when we are sick we can´t play very well and she (like I) would never lie about rl. 

 

A few thoughts other thoughts:

 

Without saying too much why (because I´m in a hurry) I´m suspicious of Nolder and Mynd. I don´t like Nolder´s play. I get what he is saying about games with many players. I tend to sign up for smaller games nowdays myself. But I don´t see how that has anything to do with his play. As Des/AJ said, first he follows their vote and then he argues with them. It´s also something about his game that is weird. I really can´t put a finger on it but it seems like he is playing another game than the rest of us. Ehm... I really can´t explain it better right now. 

 

I don´t like Mynd´s fencesitting on Red. I find it odd that Red would claim a town character while being another town character. If that was the case I think she would have waited with her reveal. I also don´t like the hydra hunt. 

 

 

 

These get a little better with the new information.

 

1st quote: Tacks on the betting thing Red mentioned as another reason to vote her, which really shouldn't indicate alignment IMO. Sort of pseudo-policy lynch material that I often find scum pushing because they can justify it easily. No likey.

 

2nd quote: Gives a little insight to Tina's sus list at the time. Still thinks Red is a good lynch (claimed PR at this point), buys the Mish claim (conftown), lists Mynd and Nolder as her next 2 biggest scum reads. These look easy to me considering the flak they were catching from other players already. Nolder is now confirmed town and Mynd has claimed VT (not that I believe necessarily, but it's something to weigh in this analysis).

 

##unvote vote Verbalina

[_CLOUD]

I believe that DesBat was Night Killed and their body was cleaned up afterwards, and Nolder was shot by a Vig. I have noticed that Mynd can’t stop talking about his love for Hydra’s and his posts since the start of this Day phase were seriously bad.

 

This assumption only works if you read DesBat's actions as pro-town. I don't see how DesBat was townie enough to be targeted. There are far more town-seeming players to target than DesBat.

I assume from reading this post that you didn’t have a town read on DesBat. What was your opinion about them and who are your town reads?
 

My take is that the mafia targeted Nolder based on DesBat's scum list. Guess who is second on that list? Me. I'll bet Desbat was part of the scum team, took out Nolder counting on a speed lynch on myself on D2.

Lynching you or Nolder woudn’t have required a lot of work so I think it’s safe to assume that Nolder wasn’t killed by the mafia. I don’t like it how you are trying to clear yourself by fearmongering about his death. DesBat was obvtown and like Yates said there is no way that the Janitor would have targeted them if they actually Night Killed Nolder.

 

So, DesBat was the mafia kill then. And a Janitor in play. Are we to assume then that DesBat was town?

 

.....

##vote Mynd

 

 

 

 

 

If DesBat was the NK, then you are trying to story-tell the mafia night kill. You are also justifying why both of you are alive before anyone else asked this question. Very interesting....you are asking us to assume quite a bit yet my hydra theory, founded in logic and probability, is somehow alien and strange.

You are also asking us to assume that DesBat was town despite his coroner, and yet Cory asks us to PAFO on why there is no coroner.

Gonna need more explanation of where you were going with this or how you thought this post was helpful for gamesolving. What is "story-telling" the NK? Why were you trying to spread doubt about DesBat being town?

 

Storytelling the NK is what scum do to spin what happened to push what the scum want the town to think. Two players die and the scum post things like "Well, obviously he was night killed because.....X and the other must be a VIG kill because......Y" Its a way for the scum to try and get everyone buying into the agenda before anyone else has a chance to analyze it. Especially when something surprises them.

 

Just to be crystal clear: you mean exactly what you were doing after the N1 writeup?

 

What are you talking about?

 

 

He is calling you out on your hypocrisy regarding the storytelling thing.

[Tommyrod]

AJ: I'd be curious to see who was taking similar lines regarding suspects at the time. I think a lot of players had a similar suspect list to Tina's, including myself. I don't remember many players being discussed yesterday. You know, hydras and all. Makes it easy to hide in that pool if necessary.

I think you're on to something. We've got a lackluster Tina performance and an absentee Verb performance. Reading Tina isn't really my forte, but if Verb comes in and starts posting about the game, I can probably discern his alignment after our last game together.

[Tommyrod]

Cloud: I don't disagree with your vote or what you're saying. There's one issue though, if Mynd does end up being town, we've burned another day on players being bad. I'd like to see you analyze some other players. VerbTina, Krak, Dawn, Lenlo, perhaps.

[Darthe]

Official Vote Count:

Mynd (4/9): Cory, Tommy, NyanCat, Megaloud

Verbalina (1/9): CrayJay

 

Not Voting (12/16):

Krak, Len, X, Dawn, Jack, Verbalina, Halleeloujah, Dice, Zanube, Red, Mynd, Yates

 

68 Hours til Night

[Nynaeve]

Verbal will prolly only show tomorrow. He's not big on weekend posting. Family time and all.

 

 

 

Nyn

[Tommyrod]

Hellooo all!!

 

This game looks very interesting......

 

Cop detected. You're welcome, mafia.

[_CLOUD]

 

Greetings. This game looks promising.

 

If this isn't some sort of running gag then I dislike this OP from Cloud. The game did not look promising at the time. It was spam.

 

 

Dude before joining this game I played in AJ's Mistborn game which is being hosted in Thak. The activity in this game was a godsend after waiting for what seemed like ages for people to post in that one (no offense AJ).