[Advanced] Red Wedding Mafia - Post Game, MakersMark

[Yates]

I'm hoping nobody goes #FullDarthe this game

[WWWwombat]

 

Changed my story how? Show plz.

This is the moment when you changed your story:

 

I'll spell it out for you Mynd.

 

I haven't checked the game all day. Decided to catch up before going to bed. Saw it had twelve pages, wasn't exactly looking forward to going through that while tired. Jumped to the last page to check the mood of thread. Was happy it was still jokes, no need for serious brain activity before bedtime. Decided to post picture I just saw in my tmblr feed. Capiche?

 

 

And it's just Mish, or Mistress if you prefer

 

Didn't say that, Mynd. Said I was reading the thread before going to bed. Takes me a while to get ready, so reading and replaying to the game in the meantime.

 

But now im done with all that. So see ya all tomorrow.

 

This is bad. Striking a nerve with Mish is null and you know it. And nudging Red while voting Mish is doubly bad.

I’m well aware that Mish is an emotional player but there is a difference between being easily riled up and doing a lousy job at defending yourself. She was trying to divert attention away from herself and onto X for an opening post that didn’t stick out to me in any kind of way, and now she is defending herself by pointing out how nobody has said anything about Tress while she has yet to write her first game related post. And as for me nudging Red while voting Mish: I only have one vote dude. If I had two I would have voted both of them because as I have already explained I find both of them scummy and creating competing trains would be a good idea.

 

 

Fair enough.  You can be town for now.

 

 

##unvote

##Vote Mishtress

[Darthe]

Say something about me!

 

 

I'd also like to hear Mish say something that isn't about Xthrax, Tress, or herself.

 

 

[Tommyrod]

AORN I think Red > Dawn >> Mish

[Red2111]

 

 

Red your reasoning for continuing to vote me makes approximately zero sense. You have an apparent scum suspect in Mish yet you are voting me "for reactions." The reactions you're getting are from probtownies who recognize this is my obvtown game.

 

Try again.

 

red - mutli taskign and casing multiple people is good.

 

you're reaction to a single vote is scummy.  you've done nothing scum hunting wise, you've only had cheerleading support for the case building on Mish, and you blatantly wagon a person with the longest train with no other reason than OMGUS and people are defending you.

 

to quote Hamlet's mother "the lady doth protest too much, me thinks,"

 

blue - the only perosn i trust in this game is myself.

 

pink - meta isn't a good defense and i dont buy it, nor do i use it to determine the scumminess ot towness of a person. 

 

green - nah i'm good.

 

 

This is garbage.  You've completely destroyed the credibility of your vote on Tommy, so any reactions you get from it are null.  Why aren't you voting Mish?

 

 

the vote itself and the reactions to the vote are independent.  the defense of tom started before i had a chance to explain my vote as people saw AJ calling it a joke vote and assumed thats what it was.

 

as for not voting Mish, a few reasons.

 

- reactions i'm getting from my current vote

-  deadline is far enough off, so no real reason to move my vote imo. 

- moving my vote would be seen more like trying to cover my ass than apply pressure on Mish,

- we need more than just two trains and two cases (if you could call the case agaisnt me a case) going on, i'd really like to see a third train tbh and a few more cases.

 

but i get your point womby and heres a question for you.  why do you still have your vote on me considering your intital vote was a reaction test?   (n/m i sa where you changed yer vote,  yay for the vote thingy deciding to work today.  )why aren't you also casing Mish and others?  why are you defending Dawn?   

 

 

Also, I think you guys are a bit too harsh on Dawn atm.  She rolled mafia her first two games, so her town game probably isn't that developed yet.  She's a quick learner, but I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt atm.

 

mafia is a game of hard knocks. you learn best by learning from your failures.  this is no reason, imo, to go easy on a person.  if her mistakes aren't pointed out to her and she doesn't get pressure over them, how can she grow as a player and evovle her game

 

 

 

 

I brought up Des because he is acting to seriously out of meta it's worrying. He usually comes in big, with tons of quotes and immediatly sets himself up as town leader. Here, he threw a half-hearted FoS at Red, and then starting nattering about off-topic stuff. I noted it and I want to see what he says about and how he acts next time he gets on. If he doesn't pick it up, I'll be all over his game.

 

 

This is lame btw, especially because I have almost four times the content Des does and you just got through telling us how we should be looking at both heads of a hydra.

 

 

bold - which is a surprise in itself.

 

 

 

you seem rather intent on sweeping it back under the rug.  makes me really curious as to why that is and what your true motive was for doing it in the first place.

Do I? Is that why I called you out on it rather than ignore it - the way everyone else has? So let me ask you this; what do *YOU* think is my motivation for claiming vanilla so early? Do you think I'm trying to draw a night action by claiming I have no night action? What has me curious is your response to what should have been a fairly innocuous post when read in context.

 

Let me ask you straight up - do you think early claiming is alignment indicative?

 

 

blue - i'm not gonna WIFOM with you on this.  only you know what your true motivation was   

 

 

as for the other, not necessarily, but i question it none the less

[Tommyrod]

It's cool Red. Just ignore me. NP.

 

Who would you be voting for if not me?

[Yates]

as for the other, not necessarily, but i question it none the less

And THAT is where I take umbrage with your current tact. If it isn't alignment indicative - something you are stating you agree with - then what's the point in harping on it? The claim has been made. It is in clear text for all to see. It will be found in a search. It is not alignment indicative at this point in time. So where's the beef?

[Red2111]

 

as for the other, not necessarily, but i question it none the less

And THAT is where I take umbrage with your current tact. If it isn't alignment indicative - something you are stating you agree with - then what's the point in harping on it? The claim has been made. It is in clear text for all to see. It will be found in a search. It is not alignment indicative at this point in time. So where's the beef?

 

 

why shouldn't i question something that i see as being a quesitonable move.  the claim itself is not indicative of the alignemnt, no.  but the reaction to being questioned about it can be.

 

its like Schrödinger's cat 

 

until i question it, the act itself is both scummy and not scummy.  i only find out which itis when i open the box and in this case i open the box by questioning it.

[WWWwombat]

 

 

the vote itself and the reactions to the vote are independent.  the defense of tom started before i had a chance to explain my vote as people saw AJ calling it a joke vote and assumed thats what it was.

 

 

What?  That makes no logical sense.  If something is a reaction to something else, then they are causally linked and therefore cannot be independent.

[WWWwombat]

 

 

as for the other, not necessarily, but i question it none the less

And THAT is where I take umbrage with your current tact. If it isn't alignment indicative - something you are stating you agree with - then what's the point in harping on it? The claim has been made. It is in clear text for all to see. It will be found in a search. It is not alignment indicative at this point in time. So where's the beef?

 

 

why shouldn't i question something that i see as being a quesitonable move.  the claim itself is not indicative of the alignemnt, no.  but the reaction to being questioned about it can be.

 

its like Schrödinger's cat 

 

until i question it, the act itself is both scummy and not scummy.  i only find out which itis when i open the box and in this case i open the box by questioning it.

 

 

It's not like that at all.  A more apt comparison would probably be Bayes' Theorem.  Additional information changes the posterior probabilities.

[Songstress]

Having some annoying computer issues this morning - monitor on my desktop is old and dying, and wouldn't turn on at all this morning (at least hasn't in almost 3 hours of waiting for it)... Laptop hasn't been turned on in a couple of months and needed updates and now wants me to reboot like now if not sooner.  Made some notes in our Hydra QT so I can reference them from whichever computer (or my phone) later on.

 

Copy/pasting quick hits on the happenings that have stood out to me, without a full re-read or a batch of ISOs a lot of people will be left out for sheer "I don't remember" value... have to get ready for work after this so the next 10 hours my ability to respond will be limited.

 

2. Desbat (Wombat/Des) - Leaning mafia... Wombat started out voting Red, then nudged trains on both Red/Mish,then soft defended Mish against Cloud, called Cloud's reasoning bad, then sheeped Cloud's vote. Also not fond of his decision to extend the D1 noob pass to Dawn's 5th game. Right now I'm reading it as mafia deciding to defend someone who is likely to be lynched at some point and flip town. Want to vote here.

 

3. Nolbat

4. Krak

5. MegaLoud (Amega/Cloud) - I can see Cloud as potentially mafia. Would like to see a DesBat flip before gong that route.

6. Crayjay (Cory/Andrej) - gut says town lean, I haven't seen anything yet that stands out as suspicious.

7. Lenlo

8. X - Null, I didn't read the opening post as anything significant.

9. Dawn - I think her confusion is probably genuine enough, but she does need to learn to start taking a stand. Being wrong doesn't mean you're mafia. Avoiding giving opinions on others does read like mafia. Gut tells me she's town, because I think ScumBat is more likely to defend her as town than as a teammate.

10. Jack

11. Princess Verbalina of Kindelbury (Verb/Tina)

12. Halleeloujah (Leelou/Hally)

13. Dice

14. Zanube

15. Red - Likes to nitpick/overblow small things to make cases throughout the game. I usually have a hard time seeing her as town because I can't tell if she's misinterpreting things as scum tells or intentionally misrepresenting them. I've rarely played with her as mafia but I do recall one game, and it took a long time to figure it out. If DesBat is mafia, then Red is probably town.

16. Nyankat (Nyn/Kat) - I read Nyn as genuine so far, slight town lean.

17. Mynd - likes to nitpick/overblow small things to start cases and get games started. Typically will jump on others who follow along with his weak case. Waiting to see where he goes next since the train he started has grown substantially, and Red is a competing train.

18. Tommy - getting a town gut read on him. If mafia I think it'll be obvious later as he plays town leader and leads everyone right off the cliff.

19. Yates - Claimed Tytos Blackwood, VT - apparent gamestarter joke, he's a bold player and not afraid to draw attention to himself as mafia. Null read, will re-evaluate later.

 

##unvote

##vote DesBat

[WWWwombat]

That being said, reaction are only as useful as the things people are reacting to.  If you do something completely arbitrary just to get reactions, you're not going to catch very many scum.  This may sound weird coming from me, but almost none of my moves are arbitrary even if I don't explain them at the time.

[WWWwombat]

Having some annoying computer issues this morning - monitor on my desktop is old and dying, and wouldn't turn on at all this morning (at least hasn't in almost 3 hours of waiting for it)... Laptop hasn't been turned on in a couple of months and needed updates and now wants me to reboot like now if not sooner.  Made some notes in our Hydra QT so I can reference them from whichever computer (or my phone) later on.

 

Copy/pasting quick hits on the happenings that have stood out to me, without a full re-read or a batch of ISOs a lot of people will be left out for sheer "I don't remember" value... have to get ready for work after this so the next 10 hours my ability to respond will be limited.

 

2. Desbat (Wombat/Des) - Leaning mafia... Wombat started out voting Red, then nudged trains on both Red/Mish,then soft defended Mish against Cloud, called Cloud's reasoning bad, then sheeped Cloud's vote. Also not fond of his decision to extend the D1 noob pass to Dawn's 5th game. Right now I'm reading it as mafia deciding to defend someone who is likely to be lynched at some point and flip town. Want to vote here.

 

3. Nolbat

 

4. Krak

5. MegaLoud (Amega/Cloud) - I can see Cloud as potentially mafia. Would like to see a DesBat flip before gong that route.

 

6. Crayjay (Cory/Andrej) - gut says town lean, I haven't seen anything yet that stands out as suspicious.

 

7. Lenlo

 

8. X - Null, I didn't read the opening post as anything significant.

 

9. Dawn - I think her confusion is probably genuine enough, but she does need to learn to start taking a stand. Being wrong doesn't mean you're mafia. Avoiding giving opinions on others does read like mafia. Gut tells me she's town, because I think ScumBat is more likely to defend her as town than as a teammate.

 

10. Jack

 

11. Princess Verbalina of Kindelbury (Verb/Tina)

 

12. Halleeloujah (Leelou/Hally)

 

13. Dice

 

14. Zanube

 

15. Red - Likes to nitpick/overblow small things to make cases throughout the game. I usually have a hard time seeing her as town because I can't tell if she's misinterpreting things as scum tells or intentionally misrepresenting them. I've rarely played with her as mafia but I do recall one game, and it took a long time to figure it out. If DesBat is mafia, then Red is probably town.

 

16. Nyankat (Nyn/Kat) - I read Nyn as genuine so far, slight town lean.

 

17. Mynd - likes to nitpick/overblow small things to start cases and get games started. Typically will jump on others who follow along with his weak case. Waiting to see where he goes next since the train he started has grown substantially, and Red is a competing train.

 

18. Tommy - getting a town gut read on him. If mafia I think it'll be obvious later as he plays town leader and leads everyone right off the cliff.

 

19. Yates - Claimed Tytos Blackwood, VT - apparent gamestarter joke, he's a bold player and not afraid to draw attention to himself as mafia. Null read, will re-evaluate later.

 

##unvote

##vote DesBat

 

No scum reads except for me.  Yet you essentially agree with me on Dawn.  Seems legit.

[WWWwombat]

Also, the complete hedge on AmegaCloud is kinda lol.

[Songstress]

You're still my favorite marsupial. Also, you gotta start somewhere.

[Tommyrod]

Tress, that's a lot of associative reads based around the idea that DesBat is scum.

[WWWwombat]

Notice the logically fallacious D2 associative reads that are being set up here:

 

 

1.  Wombat scum implies Dawn town.

2.  Wombat scum implies Red town.

3.  Wombat flips town.

4.  Oh well I was wrong about Wombat so I must have been wrong about Dawn/Red

[WWWwombat]

Tress, that's a lot of associative reads based around the idea that DesBat is scum.

 

legit freaked out

[Yates]

why shouldn't i question something that i see as being a quesitonable move.  the claim itself is not indicative of the alignemnt, no.  but the reaction to being questioned about it can be.

 

its like Schrödinger's cat 

 

until i question it, the act itself is both scummy and not scummy.  i only find out which itis when i open the box and in this case i open the box by questioning it.

 

You are skirting the fundamental question once again - what makes it a "questionable move?" By your current logic EVERY STATEMENT is "like Schrödinger's cat." Also, I don't think that means what you think it means - but that's besides the point.

[WWWwombat]

FWIW, I don't get your claim Yates, but besides that you seem town, so you're still in a superposition of all possible alignments imo.  Slight skew towards town maybe.

[Songstress]

Notice the logically fallacious D2 associative reads that are being set up here:

 

 

1.  Wombat scum implies Dawn town.

2.  Wombat scum implies Red town.

3.  Wombat flips town.

4.  Oh well I was wrong about Wombat so I must have been wrong about Dawn/Red

 

Associative, schmassosiative.  You're my strongest read ATM.  Without going back and doing a full re-read or a bunch of ISOs, this is what I've got, mostly gut impressions but it's legit.

[Red2111]

 

 

 

the vote itself and the reactions to the vote are independent.  the defense of tom started before i had a chance to explain my vote as people saw AJ calling it a joke vote and assumed thats what it was.

 

 

What?  That makes no logical sense.  If something is a reaction to something else, then they are causally linked and therefore cannot be independent.

 

 

you claimed that  the reactions were null because of the reason behind the vote.

 

i'm merely stating that in this case the reactions are not null becuase the reactions were based on the vote itself (was assumed to be a joke vote via AJ's comment and saw as distancing from Mishtress) and not the reason for the vote (possible character claim of the Goat).

 

 

 

 

 

as for the other, not necessarily, but i question it none the less

And THAT is where I take umbrage with your current tact. If it isn't alignment indicative - something you are stating you agree with - then what's the point in harping on it? The claim has been made. It is in clear text for all to see. It will be found in a search. It is not alignment indicative at this point in time. So where's the beef?

 

 

why shouldn't i question something that i see as being a quesitonable move.  the claim itself is not indicative of the alignemnt, no.  but the reaction to being questioned about it can be.

 

its like Schrödinger's cat 

 

until i question it, the act itself is both scummy and not scummy.  i only find out which itis when i open the box and in this case i open the box by questioning it.

 

 

It's not like that at all.  A more apt comparison would probably be Bayes' Theorem.  Additional information changes the posterior probabilities.

 

 

to me it is, because the act of the premature reveal in thsi context exists both as a scummy act (premature reveal with no pressur at all) and not scummy act (coudl be a joke). 

 

i can either leave the box closed and wonder about it.

 

or i can quesiton it to find out the answer (and actually start scum hunting and not spamming)  i chose this option.

 

 

 

 

5. MegaLoud (Amega/Cloud) - I can see Cloud as potentially mafia. Would like to see a DesBat flip before gong that route.

 

 

9. Dawn - I think her confusion is probably genuine enough, but she does need to learn to start taking a stand. Being wrong doesn't mean you're mafia. Avoiding giving opinions on others does read like mafia. Gut tells me she's town, because I think ScumBat is more likely to defend her as town than as a teammate.

 

15. Red - Likes to nitpick/overblow small things to make cases throughout the game. I usually have a hard time seeing her as town because I can't tell if she's misinterpreting things as scum tells or intentionally misrepresenting them. I've rarely played with her as mafia but I do recall one game, and it took a long time to figure it out. If DesBat is mafia, then Red is probably town.

 

 

 

##unvote

##vote DesBat

 

 

all three of these ping because of the thing they have in common.  you're linking us all with desbat.  i greatly dislike linkage. 

 

 

That being said, reaction are only as useful as the things people are reacting to.  If you do something completely arbitrary just to get reactions, you're not going to catch very many scum.  This may sound weird coming from me, but almost none of my moves are arbitrary even if I don't explain them at the time.

 

most of the the time what i do in games is not arbitrary either Womby.  sometimes what i do and say is misunderstood, yes, but not arbitrary.  i have my reasons.

[Songstress]

EBWOP: Also, I dislike the fact that you're implying my reads are going to flip on Red and Dawn based on your alignment.

 

This is my impression right now.  If the gods see fit to bless me with a DesBat flip while I'm still alive, everything else is subject to revew.  

 

I also note you didn't mention Cloud in there.  That's the one that's really tied to your alignment. Hmm.

[WWWwombat]

 

Notice the logically fallacious D2 associative reads that are being set up here:

 

 

1.  Wombat scum implies Dawn town.

2.  Wombat scum implies Red town.

3.  Wombat flips town.

4.  Oh well I was wrong about Wombat so I must have been wrong about Dawn/Red

 

Associative, schmassosiative.  You're my strongest read ATM.  Without going back and doing a full re-read or a bunch of ISOs, this is what I've got, mostly gut impressions but it's legit.

 

 

That's kind of the point.  You don't really have any strong reads that aren't based on the assumption that I'm scum.  You also haven't explained why you find my actions that you've highlighted scummy.

[WWWwombat]

EBWOP: Also, I dislike the fact that you're implying my reads are going to flip on Red and Dawn based on your alignment.

 

This is my impression right now.  If the gods see fit to bless me with a DesBat flip while I'm still alive, everything else is subject to revew.  

 

I also note you didn't mention Cloud in there.  That's the one that's really tied to your alignment. Hmm.

 

I did mention it.  I called it a "complete hedge."