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[Advanced] Twilight Mafia Game over - Mafia win

Leelou

By Leelou
in DM Mafia Games

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Tommyrod Grand Master

Tommyrod

Posted
Posted

Re: future planning, I'm not saying you're doing it here.

I'm having trouble following you. Can you make me one of those top-down lists? Your current reads.

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Verbal32 Spam Master

Verbal32

Posted
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Posted

 

 

Yeah, if Tina and Hallia end up being scumbras I'll be fairly rustled. I'm not sure Hallia has the cojones, though.

 

Why not?  If properly coached through the process, anybody can do it.  Like.....if somebody wanted to walk them through each step - it is easy.

 

Actually, from what I know of you.........you would be a good candidate to assist them in this manner.  I would, too - I love to plan stuff as scum and be a few steps ahead.  Also another reason why I'd sooner offer myself as lynch before a No Lynch.

 

Because it's Hallia. I don't think she's a particularly provocative scummer, he M.O. is to lurk and avoid detection for as long as possible.

 

Yes, someone could be coaching her, but I'm not crossing that bridge before I have to.

 

 

You are pigeon-holing yourself into a belief re: Hallia that can and will eventually bite you in the @$$.  Why not today?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Re: future planning, I'm not saying you're doing it here.

I'm having trouble following you. Can you make me one of those top-down lists? Your current reads.

 

 

Good.  I still need to ISO a couple players (like Pralaya), so I'll get back to you on a reads list.

Tommyrod Grand Master

Tommyrod

Posted
Posted

You are pigeon-holing yourself into a belief re: Hallia that can and will eventually bite you in the @$$.  Why not today?

I'm not being closed minded nor are my reads inflexible. But from a gameplay perspective, she's claiming some kind of investigator. At this point we have 3? claimed investigators, and while there's a nonzero chance that one of them is lying... I'm not sure Hallia fake claims that in a spot where neither she nor Tina are in imminent danger of being lynched.

BFG Spam Master

BFG

Posted
Posted

Vote Count

 

Dice (4) - Hallia, Tommy, Tina, Dawn

Lenlo (1) - Clov

Pral (3) - Darthe, Dice, Lenlo

 

not voting - Des, Verbal, Pral

 

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch

 

Deadline Monday 5 pm EST

 

 

Any errors in the VC are mine with apologies!

dawnflower8 Veteran

dawnflower8

Posted
Posted

 

 

Dawn, any thoughts on these new and exciting developments?

What new and exciting developments are you speaking of?

 

The claimfest. I'm wondering what you're currently thinking. Any thoughts, really. Just mash that keyboard.

 

Well, people could easily fake claim, so I'm not sure I trust all the claims.

And I might as well add to it. As you probably guessed, I'm vanilla.

Tommyrod Grand Master

Tommyrod

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

Dawn, any thoughts on these new and exciting developments?

What new and exciting developments are you speaking of?

 

The claimfest. I'm wondering what you're currently thinking. Any thoughts, really. Just mash that keyboard.

 

Well, people could easily fake claim, so I'm not sure I trust all the claims.

And I might as well add to it. As you probably guessed, I'm vanilla.

 

I would have guessed you're hiding a PR, actually  :tongue: 

 

In the future, when you're a vanilla, sometimes it helps to soft hint at being a PR or play some mind games to appear like you've got one so you draw a night kill. I saw Hallia accomplish this nicely in the JK9 game. Sometimes when I'm a PR I claim vanilla to give scum a tough choice whether to kill me as a pesky townie or go PR hunting first. 

 

But that stuff can wait, for now you just have to blab as much as you can, especially if there's no reason to keep you around from a power perspective. 

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Verbal32 Spam Master

Verbal32

Posted
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Posted

 

 

 

 

Dawn, any thoughts on these new and exciting developments?

What new and exciting developments are you speaking of?

 

The claimfest. I'm wondering what you're currently thinking. Any thoughts, really. Just mash that keyboard.

 

Well, people could easily fake claim, so I'm not sure I trust all the claims.

And I might as well add to it. As you probably guessed, I'm vanilla.

 

I would have guessed you're hiding a PR, actually  :tongue: 

 

In the future, when you're a vanilla, sometimes it helps to soft hint at being a PR or play some mind games to appear like you've got one so you draw a night kill. I saw Hallia accomplish this nicely in the JK9 game. Sometimes when I'm a PR I claim vanilla to give scum a tough choice whether to kill me as a pesky townie or go PR hunting first. 

 

But that stuff can wait, for now you just have to blab as much as you can, especially if there's no reason to keep you around from a power perspective. 

 

 

Doesn't that run contrary to the advice you offered her in the first sentence?  Off topic, I know.

Clovdyx Spam Master

Clovdyx

Posted
Posted

Does anybody know the exact time day phase ends?  There are some things I'd like to discuss.

 

NVM.  Thought Leelou said noon today, rather than 5.  Gives us a few hours, so if anybody wants to discuss, I'm interested to hear why:

 

-we're lynching somebody whose main argument for them was "We should CFD on him", and "Lynching for Wagonments"

-everybody has felt the need to claim today, including two vanillas? (seems like a half-hearted attempt to clear themselves of being a vig target without doing work IMO)

-we're ignoring blatant pressing for role info.

-at least three people have said they're more comfortable lynching somebody else but still voted for Dice

dawnflower8 Veteran

dawnflower8

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

 

 

Dawn, any thoughts on these new and exciting developments?

What new and exciting developments are you speaking of?

 

The claimfest. I'm wondering what you're currently thinking. Any thoughts, really. Just mash that keyboard.

 

Well, people could easily fake claim, so I'm not sure I trust all the claims.

And I might as well add to it. As you probably guessed, I'm vanilla.

 

I would have guessed you're hiding a PR, actually  :tongue: 

 

In the future, when you're a vanilla, sometimes it helps to soft hint at being a PR or play some mind games to appear like you've got one so you draw a night kill. I saw Hallia accomplish this nicely in the JK9 game. Sometimes when I'm a PR I claim vanilla to give scum a tough choice whether to kill me as a pesky townie or go PR hunting first. 

 

But that stuff can wait, for now you just have to blab as much as you can, especially if there's no reason to keep you around from a power perspective. 

 

 

Doesn't that run contrary to the advice you offered her in the first sentence?  Off topic, I know.

 

It is basically saying the opposite of the advice.

 

And I bet I'm going to be NK'ed soon.

Tommyrod Grand Master

Tommyrod

Posted
Posted

 

Does anybody know the exact time day phase ends?  There are some things I'd like to discuss.

 

NVM.  Thought Leelou said noon today, rather than 5.  Gives us a few hours, so if anybody wants to discuss, I'm interested to hear why:

 

-we're lynching somebody whose main argument for them was "We should CFD on him", and "Lynching for Wagonments"

-everybody has felt the need to claim today, including two vanillas? (seems like a half-hearted attempt to clear themselves of being a vig target without doing work IMO)

-we're ignoring blatant pressing for role info.

-at least three people have said they're more comfortable lynching somebody else but still voted for Dice

 

Seems like you're talking about me without actually addressing me. I can't speak for everyone else, but at the very least you're understating or willfully misrepresenting my reasoning for why Dice is scum. As for my claim -- I don't have anything that can save me -- so no idea how you conclude I'd be less of a vig target when I don't have a mechanically clearing role. If anything, it's the opposite.

 

Your last point is the one that's worth discussing. I'll own the Dice lynch, I have no issues with that, he probably is scum. Why are you still parked on Lenlo? Don't think he's on the table for today.

Darthe Spam Master

Darthe

Posted
Posted

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dawn, any thoughts on these new and exciting developments?

What new and exciting developments are you speaking of?

 

The claimfest. I'm wondering what you're currently thinking. Any thoughts, really. Just mash that keyboard.

 

Well, people could easily fake claim, so I'm not sure I trust all the claims.

And I might as well add to it. As you probably guessed, I'm vanilla.

 

I would have guessed you're hiding a PR, actually  :tongue: 

 

In the future, when you're a vanilla, sometimes it helps to soft hint at being a PR or play some mind games to appear like you've got one so you draw a night kill. I saw Hallia accomplish this nicely in the JK9 game. Sometimes when I'm a PR I claim vanilla to give scum a tough choice whether to kill me as a pesky townie or go PR hunting first. 

 

But that stuff can wait, for now you just have to blab as much as you can, especially if there's no reason to keep you around from a power perspective. 

 

 

Doesn't that run contrary to the advice you offered her in the first sentence?  Off topic, I know.

 

It is basically saying the opposite of the advice.

 

And I bet I'm going to be NK'ed soon.

 

 

Worst thing you said all game.  

 

WTL Dawn now.

 

##Unvote vote Dice

Clovdyx Spam Master

Clovdyx

Posted
Posted

 

 

Does anybody know the exact time day phase ends?  There are some things I'd like to discuss.

 

NVM.  Thought Leelou said noon today, rather than 5.  Gives us a few hours, so if anybody wants to discuss, I'm interested to hear why:

 

-we're lynching somebody whose main argument for them was "We should CFD on him", and "Lynching for Wagonments"

-everybody has felt the need to claim today, including two vanillas? (seems like a half-hearted attempt to clear themselves of being a vig target without doing work IMO)

-we're ignoring blatant pressing for role info.

-at least three people have said they're more comfortable lynching somebody else but still voted for Dice

 

Seems like you're talking about me without actually addressing me. I can't speak for everyone else, but at the very least you're understating or willfully misrepresenting my reasoning for why Dice is scum. As for my claim -- I don't have anything that can save me -- so no idea how you conclude I'd be less of a vig target when I don't have a mechanically clearing role. If anything, it's the opposite.

 

Your last point is the one that's worth discussing. I'll own the Dice lynch, I have no issues with that, he probably is scum. Why are you still parked on Lenlo? Don't think he's on the table for today.

 

 

1.  Des was the one who said we should run a CFD on Dice, even before you voted for him.  Then yes, you voted for him to Wagon.  This was seemingly before your long catch up isos of several players.  It appears like you made up your mind before you really got a chance to figure out where you stood on him.

 

2.  I'll include you.  I'll also include Lenlo (who I'm still voting, remember), Des, and Dawn.  Tina roleclaimed to save herself from being lynched, so I can understand her reasoning.  Darthe's claim was a snowball effect from the fact he took the vote of his biggest scum candidate. 

 

3. You and Verbal both look awful for it, IMO - he especially looked awful after he seemingly tried to justify his pressing of Hallia.  There's nothing he could have said that wouldn't be role fishing?  Then leave it alone.  Hallia said she was 99% positive Tina was town - either read into that what you will, and decide if you believe her or not, or leave it up in the air.  Why risk exposing a power role for that extra 1% of certainty you can't really have until you see her alignment?

 

4. 

 

##Unvote Tina

 

##Vote Dice

 

For wagonments. Yeah my epic read never happened. I have let you all down. I'm sorry. Let's try to converge upon a wolf before EOD but I need to do work work first, then I can do #work.

 

By your own admission, you're just wagonning him with no real reason.  To your credit, you later went back and established your justification after the fact. 

 

 

 

Yeah, I probably should, since I seem to be the only person with Darthe as a top suspect besides Despo...and he hasn't even voted yet.

I'd rather lynch Hallia than Dice, but I don't think that's that much of a possibility at this point so I think I will Vote Dice. He's been acting scummy lately. Might change this vote to Lenlo, though, but I think it's more likely Dice will get lynched.

 

 

Dawn would rather vote Hallia - the original person pushing Dice - who hasn't wavered off his lynch during this time.  I don't see how you can be comfortable with lynching them both in a game of this set up. 

 

Both Verbal and Tommy should get a time out. I could easily vote one of them if people want to join me. 

 

I was about to vote Dice before Verb and Tom started to question Hallia in a way that makes it look that they are role fishing. 

 

But okay... going after who I wanted first.

 

Unvote. Vote Dice. 

 

Tina is cool lynching Tom or Verbal if she gets extra support.  Then she ends up lynching the person who Tom is pushing.  The point about Verbal/Tom rolefishing is absolutely true, so kudos to her for identifying that.  But I don't get STILL voting.  She went from not cool with lynching because of their behavior, to fine with it, in the course of a minute?

 

 

Worst thing you said all game.  

 

WTL Dawn now.

 

##Unvote vote Dice

 

 

Wat.

Tommyrod Grand Master

Tommyrod

Posted
Posted

@ Clov: maybe it's because I'm used to playing on 2+2 where wagon-stacking is a used tactic because people tend to vote-unvote very frequently and you can catch people in a slip if you leave wagons open for them at EOD, but I'm of the mind that daring scum to expose themselves by increasing the numbers on a wagon is valid play. I wouldn't do this on a wagon I suspected was very obviously town, but when it comes to people in the gray zone, it can provide useful information for late game.

 

I had already decided Dice was on the table prior to my ISO case purely from POE and not remembering he was in this game, which tends to be a bad sign. I find it's often those background floaters who aren't making a splash that tend to be scum. I think I mentioned this.

 

Re: Hallia, the confidence with which she responds to my query lets me figure out if she's bluffing or has conviction behind her statements because they're true. Players from the prior game I was just in should remember this, town Hallia has chutzpah, has confidence, even if correct. Scum Hallia does not. I thought we were looking at scum Hallia, but she didn't balk, so it's likely town Hallia, and if she's got a mechanically clearing reason to absolve Tina of guilt, that helps me take Tina off the table and makes POE / tinfoiling less annoying. I don't care if it looks like I'm PR hunting; she was not being subtle.

 

I think you're caught up in WaFia tells. This is DM, people are a little less bulky with their play here.

Tommyrod Grand Master

Tommyrod

Posted
Posted

We've been mindmelding all game.

Noted. I think I've played more games with Clov than you or anyone else here, and I still don't know how to approach reading him because he's aggressive and persnickety in either role. His last post soft pushing me sure caught my attention.

Clovdyx Spam Master

Clovdyx

Posted
Posted

@ Clov: maybe it's because I'm used to playing on 2+2 where wagon-stacking is a used tactic because people tend to vote-unvote very frequently and you can catch people in a slip if you leave wagons open for them at EOD, but I'm of the mind that daring scum to expose themselves by increasing the numbers on a wagon is valid play. I wouldn't do this on a wagon I suspected was very obviously town, but when it comes to people in the gray zone, it can provide useful information for late game.

 

I had already decided Dice was on the table prior to my ISO case purely from POE and not remembering he was in this game, which tends to be a bad sign. I find it's often those background floaters who aren't making a splash that tend to be scum. I think I mentioned this.

 

Re: Hallia, the confidence with which she responds to my query lets me figure out if she's bluffing or has conviction behind her statements because they're true. Players from the prior game I was just in should remember this, town Hallia has chutzpah, has confidence, even if correct. Scum Hallia does not. I thought we were looking at scum Hallia, but she didn't balk, so it's likely town Hallia, and if she's got a mechanically clearing reason to absolve Tina of guilt, that helps me take Tina off the table and makes POE / tinfoiling less annoying. I don't care if it looks like I'm PR hunting; she was not being subtle.

 

I think you're caught up in WaFia tells. This is DM, people are a little less bulky with their play here.

 

The problem I have with lynches like this is that I don't see how you look at all of the votes we've gotten so far (especially with the context they were placed) and come to the logical conclusion that this is a clean wagon.  I'm willing to overlook one or two bad votes, but the majority of votes on Dice right now made me shake my head.  Given the numbers right now, I don't see any reason that scum would be bussing a teammate to the point of a successful lynch.  With the assumption that at least one  - and very likely more than one - mafia member is on this lynch, I'm concluding that Dice has a significant probability of being town.

 

 

 

We've been mindmelding all game.

Noted. I think I've played more games with Clov than you or anyone else here, and I still don't know how to approach reading him because he's aggressive and persnickety in either role. His last post soft pushing me sure caught my attention.

 

Wasn't meant to be that soft.

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