[Basic] Christmas Mentors & Maffia

[Nolder]

 

Nolder & BFG, what do you guys think of this angle?  Do you think it's valid, or should I drop it?

 

I still think Tommy, Krak, or Hoof is scum. In my experience when you're scum and giving reads you generally name at least one of your scumbuddies as scum.

 

I think it holds true in most cases, unless someone is intentionally trying to use the common metagame tactic against town.

He's the lowest on my list for scum but Krak keeps coming up every time for everyone else.

 

I want to see his defense at least before just going with the flow.

[Tommyrod]

Let's just stick to basics. We know there's at least 2 left so it can't be that hard. Who has had the scummiest behavior? Hardest logic to follow, most opportunistic lynch votes, avoiding being on wagons, dodging questions, that sort of thing.

[Tommyrod]

Was Leelou going hard after anyone during D2?

Sorry if someone already answered me but I didn't see it when I skimmed today's posts. Because I think we have three possibilities for the NK:

 

1) Power role hunting

2) Leelou was on to someone

3) Leelou specifically avoided talking about the mafia, making her a nice clean kill

 

If someone could drudge up some posts from Leelou that would support 2 or 3 that would be helpful.

[peacesells]

VoteCount Day01#17

 

 

01 - Peace: -> Elf -> Golden

02 - Cloud: -> Elf -> Turin -> Hoof -> Turin -> Nolder -> NULL -> Krak -> Golden

03 - Krak: -> Cloud -> Hoof -> NULL

04 - GoldenEyes: -> Elf -> Via -> NULL -> Nolder

05 - TommyRod: -> Peace -> Turin -> Hoof -> NULL -> Nolder -> Hally -> Golden

06 - Leelou: -> Nolder -> Hally -> Nolder -> Golden

07 - Theodora: -> Golden

08 - Elffern: -> Peace -> NULL -> Nolder -> Golden

09 - Hally: -> Golden -> Nolder -> NULL -> Krak

10 - BFG: -> Golden -> NULL -> Nolder

11 - Via: -> Golden

12 - Nolder: -> Hally -> NULL -> Theo

13 - BlackHoof: -> Peace -> Nolder

14 - Turin: -> Tommy -> NULL -> Krak -> Golden

 

 

 

Golden - 8 - Peace, Thea, Via, Turin, Tommy, Leelou, Cloud, Elf

Nolder - 3 - BFG, Hoof, Golden

Krak - 1 - Hally

Theo - 1 - Nolder

 

Not voting: Krak

8 to lynch.

Deadline: 2013-12-29, 20:00 GMT - this is final, no extension will be given

Countdown: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20131229T21&p0=50&msg=ChristmasMM-D1

 

That's a lynch. Scene incoming.

 

 

That's a lynch!

 

Day 2 Final Count

 

Krak (1) - Elf

Hally (7) - Tommy, Hoof, Peace, Krak, Key, Leelou, Cloud

Peace (1) - Nolder

Elf (1) - Hally

 

Not voting: BFG, Via

 

To  answer Tommy's first question.  Hoof is the answer. 

 

Not on Goldens lynch.  Was on Hally's lynch.  Has been opportunistic all game. 

[peacesells]

Let's just stick to basics. We know there's at least 2 left so it can't be that hard. Who has had the scummiest behavior? Hardest logic to follow, most opportunistic lynch votes, avoiding being on wagons, dodging questions, that sort of thing.

 

That's the question I was refering to.

[peacesells]

VOTE HOOF

[Tommyrod]

Yeah, being on Nolder instead of Golden doesn't look too hot in retrospect; nor does following me quickly onto Hallia; mafia would know Hallia was town, easy lynch. Bah. Going back to my earliest notes, which I think will provide the best detail now that several alignments are known. Let's peruse:

 

 

Weak opening in #8 and #11. I'm not a fan of the cthulu jokey stuff. Post #51 just reeks of bullpoop trying-too-hard-to-be-harmless stuff. He outright ignores any attempts at discussing the game so far. He's still spammy in #85, but what pings me about this is his comment "normally you would be on the money" regarding him being scummy. Who the hell writes a comment like this? It's too self conscious. Votes Hallia right off the bat in D1 #92 for literally no reason. Really stupid. But what's stupider is how this reinforces the spam-party that Theo, Hoof, and Hally are having now. I'm finding it to be a little too... comfy. More spam in #102. The spam is pinging me harder now. 

 

Disappears until #281 and opens with suspicion on Cloud for back-flipping on his scum read on Elf... even though that argument took up a third of the thread and was very organic. This looks like a lousy excuse to keep suspicion on Cloud. Then in that same post, defends Elf by attacking Goldeneye's vote. Well, which is it? I haven't seen Hoof defend Elf before this, so it seems like a good way to put suspicion on just about everyone involved. As he continues to do when he FOS on Peace and then votes for him. So Hoof basically appears, put suspicion on everyone involved, and then leaves. Haha, wtf? 

 

And then when I make that post about low-posters being suspect... he reappears to defend himself and put suspicion on Dan. I *hate* that because Dan has zero posts, so he can't be anything but null at this point. Scum love to push mislynches onto inactives because they're easy targets. Big ping. Says one of Cloud or Peace are mafia... well no poop, you're voting for Peace? Why say "one of?" 

 

---

 

Blackhoof finally starts posting in a meaningful way in #383. He’s got town reads on Tom, Elf, and thinks one of Cloud or Peace is scum. Okay. Another MQ post in #407 that thinks Peace is scummy. Seemingly continues to ignore how Cloud achieved satisfaction with Elf’s defense and uses Cloud’s questioning of Elf as “tunneling” justification to keep Cloud a suspect, but the logic behind that just isn’t there. Pingworthy. Calls out Nolder again for mentioning Krak as a scum read… this would be okay if multiple people hadn’t already done so. Feels like a bit of a followy post overall, not producing new content, and ignoring events that have already transpired within the game. This could bring Hoof back into scum territory.

 

Biggest points against Hoof from early game:
-Spammy opening, possibly a buddying attempt
-Voted Hallia D1 for no reason
-Snipes Cloud for changing his mind about Elf (who we know isn't a mason), but ignores the reasoning for why Cloud changed tact
-The way he attacked Golden for voting Elf is weird... considering he just got mad at Cloud for NOT attacking Elf, and Golden was scum, this could be huge
-Despite being mad at Golden and Cloud he votes for Peace at the time
-Pushes suspicion onto a player with 0 posts

-He later continues ignoring the way Cloud and Elf achieved resolution

-Makes a me-too "hey Nolder why did you mention Krak" comment that had been made repeatedly by others at that point

-Voted Nolder over Golden D1, then followed onto Hallia immediately D2

 

So we've got a history of opportunistic attacking here, an odd interaction with Golden, and reasoning that can't be followed. 

 

From what I understand of the current game:
-Continues opportunistic lynching
-Continues to have difficult to follow reads

 

Sounds like a good way to start the day to me. If there's been some substantial data in the last 3-4 days that helps him, let's hear about it, because this certainly looks bad.
 

##Vote Hoof

[Andrej]

Vote Count 3.2

 

Krak (2) - Hoof, Cloud

Hoof (2) - Peace, Tommy

 

Not voting: Krak, Key, Via, Nolder

5 to lynch.

 

Reminder: Precede your votes with two hashtags: ##

[Tommyrod]

Last I saw of Krak, he had moved into null territory, Nolder being town makes him a less likely suspect to my eye since I had them linked. Has anything changed that would make Krak a heavier suspect than Hoof? I see Hoof is voting for Krak. 

[peacesells]

AJ counted it, but I voted with the wrong format for this game.  Gonna fix that now.

 

##VOTE HOOF

[Nolder]

Well I know what side that puts me on.

 

##Vote Krak

[Tommyrod]

Well I know what side that puts me on.

 

##Vote Krak

 

*sigh*

 

If we're town we should work together. Opposing the lynch because you don't trust Peace is a bit foolhardy IMO; Peace took a hard stance against Golden back in #305, so I doubt they are scum-scum. I don't even know what it is about me that you don't like. But don't be stubborn just for the sake of being stubborn. If you really think I'm mafia then let's hash it out. I don't think Peace is mafia, and I don't think you are mafia -- so it would help if we came a consensus. 

[peacesells]

Well I know what side that puts me on.

 

##Vote Krak

 

If I voted Krak..would you vote Hoof?

[Andrej]

Vote Count 3.3

 

Krak (3) - Hoof, Cloud, Nolder

Hoof (2) - Peace, Tommy

 

Not voting: Krak, Key, Via

5 to lynch.

[csarmi]

@Cs - I haven't voted anyone today I don't think.

you're right, sorry, forgot to delete it when copy-pasting from yesterday

[Nolder]

 

Well I know what side that puts me on.

 

##Vote Krak

 

*sigh*

 

If we're town we should work together. Opposing the lynch because you don't trust Peace is a bit foolhardy IMO; Peace took a hard stance against Golden back in #305, so I doubt they are scum-scum. I don't even know what it is about me that you don't like. But don't be stubborn just for the sake of being stubborn. If you really think I'm mafia then let's hash it out. I don't think Peace is mafia, and I don't think you are mafia -- so it would help if we came a consensus. 

 

I don't trust you either. And not to rehash it all again but I disagree that he took a hard stance on Golden.

Btw this whole post is just one AtE. Not exactly a great starting point to convince me to switch sides on this.

 

 

Well I know what side that puts me on.

 

##Vote Krak

 

If I voted Krak..would you vote Hoof?

 

Good question. I don't know.

Hoof is like Krak in that he's only on my town list because I don't believe there's room for a neutral zone anymore.

 

Personally I'd rather get out of what I see as the middle and lynch you, clearly scum.

But I need people who agree with me and unfortunately not enough do.

Why must life be so hard?

[peacesells]

Because your read is wrong and you are tunneling with a grudge. 

[Nolder]

You've acted scummy all game.

[_CLOUD]

Lol

[_CLOUD]

We don't have to wait before the deadline hits to decide on a lynch you know.

[keyholder21]

We also have no deadline at current, so we have no need to rush.  Why are you trying to hurry the process up?  

 

 

 

 

@ AJ - you missed BFG in your not voting list :).

[Nolder]

He's done that a couple times this game.

Could be we all have a really bad read on him and he's scum.

But considering that would make pretty much all of us dead wrong in our reads and that it is an amateurish move to nudge a speed lynch I think it's more likely he's just bored or impatient.

[peacesells]

I don't have a town read on Cloud.

[keyholder21]

He's done that a couple times this game.

Could be we all have a really bad read on him and he's scum.

But considering that would make pretty much all of us dead wrong in our reads and that it is an amateurish move to nudge a speed lynch I think it's more likely he's just bored or impatient.

 

Nail on the head.

 

 

I find myself going back and forth though.  Last time I thought he was town, he was scum.  And when I think he's scum, he's town lol.  It's annoying.  

 

Hoof just always seems scummy to me.  Hope that doesn't sound like an insult Hoofie.  

 

Today, if I get a chance, I want to go back through and look at Peace and Tommy's posts.  If you'd like, I can post ISOs of them.  Just be aware it will be a ton (esp. peace's) because there has been a lot of talking by both.

[peacesells]

you can skip Nolders and my emo arguments with each if you want.