[Basic] Christmas Mentors & Maffia

[keyholder21]

The stupid search isn't working for me .

[Blackhoof]

Part 7-

 

 

 

Goddamn format shite.

 

 

Here are the two posts I tried to quote: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/86578-basic-christmas-mentors-maffia/?p=3118172 or, better yet, http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/86578-basic-christmas-mentors-maffia/?p=3118702

 

 

I give up.

 

 

 

Krak is really responding badly right now. Taking everything so personally. Does not speak well for his townness.
 
I am feeling better about Nolder

  

It's easy to single out my anger and attempt to pin me to a wall with it, but I'd love to see something about content too.

 

Not sure what to think of the anger/defensiveness.

 
He's starting to get angry because he knows that I'm right about him.
 
 
 
I have kept up with Nolder's and Peace's back and forth during this Day and I have to say that Nolder came out as the better player and townie. I haven't liked Peace's play and votes since the start of Day 2 and I'm starting to think that I was wrong about him being town. His early vote on Golden could have been a very early busvote even though I still find it unlikely. He is going on my unsure list together with Hoof.

  

If you think I get angry only as scum, then I don't think you know my play. I get angry regardless of alignment because it's usually about something not-entirely-game-related. Like the dictionary thing. Or Des. That said, I apologize for taking out an inordinate amount of anger on you. Some was warranted, but not all. That said, don't let my apology influence your play/reads. If you think it was a scum overreaction, that's fine.

 

 

 

 

 

You know what? ----- this website and it's -------- ------------ posting system. I just spent the past 2 and a half hours going through this thread and multiquoting all of Goldeneye's posts but because I missed ONE and I knew if it said anything stupid about me people would get all up in arms about it so I searched and searched through the thread over and over trying to find this one post and when I finally found it it was out of order. So I go about trying to find where it fits in and fix it but then I find out oh too many quotes can't post because guess what when someone makes a case or analysis of a mafia game they tend to use ----------- quotes so if you then quote them you hit the quote limit in like two posts and then you need to cut YOUR post up into several parts. And so I went about doing this anyway even though it is the bane of my ---------- existence. But OOOPS I cut something wrong somewhere while trying to juggle these 3+ posts of Goldeneye's quotes I'm getting ready to post and it screws up ALL the quote boxes beause whatever stupid ---------- system DM uses likes to think it's ------------- smart by "fixing" a broken quote box and just pretending the next person over said something when they didn't. ------------ this I'm rage quitting and I'm not doing it again.

Church.

 

 

 

@Cloud - I don't believe I've called you scum since Day 1. And it didn't tell me anything.

 

And am I the only one here who doesn't view skimming as a scum tell? >.>

No.

 

 

 

So I went back through Peace's posts expecting to find something condemning him, but to my surprise didn't find anything obvious. He's been pretty consistent on his reads, placed a vote on Golden and explained himself, and has picked/entered into several fights with various people. My only question is,

@Peace: do you still have scum reads on Elf?



Also, wasn't Elf replaced recently?

@Mod: would you mind updating the Original Player List with replacements?

 

 

Your'e right, I did use the word scum, but that was pretty scummy. You claimed to know what you couldn't know as fact.


Well I wasn't really testing you as much as Blackhoof, but that's moot at this point. Yes it was a bad play in that it's occupying you pretty needlessly.

 

The player list is up to date. Elf came back, apparently some wine happened to her around new year's.

Cool

 

 

 

 

##unvote
 
I need to go back and read a couple more people, but I'm starting to get a scum lean on Peace after his interactions with Nol.

Interested to see what you glean.

 

 

 

That post doesn't state what you think it states. Nice try though.

 

 

 

 

Your'e right, I did use the word scum, but that was pretty scummy. You claimed to know what you couldn't know as fact.

 
I suspected that you didn't have any good reasoning for doing what you did, and apparently I was right after all ;)

If that's your takeaway, I'm not going to argue that point anymore. This conversation is so booooooring.

 

 

 

Hoof has been pretty wishy-washy. I can't tell the exact timeline on my phone, mainly because DM doesn't do proper ISOs and the workaround method sucks, but it seems that he wasn't really suspicious of me or Hallia until other people were vocal about it. He was highly suspicious about Nolder until (I believe) you posted about Nolder being likely town. The only good part being that at least his reads aren't static.

When asked to explain his scum read on me and his vote on (Hally?), his response was "they could both be scum," which is hardly heartening.


If I'm wrong about the timeline before I get to a proper computer, please tell me.

 

 

 

 

So I went back through Peace's posts expecting to find something condemning him, but to my surprise didn't find anything obvious. He's been pretty consistent on his reads, placed a vote on Golden and explained himself, and has picked/entered into several fights with various people. My only question is,
@Peace: do you still have scum reads on Elf?

 
His vote on Golden could as easily have been a distance vote which turned in his favor after Golden got lynched.
 
What do you think about his back and forth with Nolder?

I think it'll be really funny if they're both town as Nolder called him out on D1 for causing some serious town-on-town violence several games past. I mean, it could obviously be distancing, but I'd believe that more readily if he hadn't done the same with Tommy and...Turin?

The golden vote could easily be distancing, but he gave a pretty good reason for it too. It's enough to give me pause for now.

 

 

 

 

Yes, and it appears that I'm doing an exceptionally poor job at it too.

Remind me what* your case is?

 

 

 

@Via - do you have any reads?

 

 

 

[keyholder21]

Okay, now posting at all is being weird.  Did this work?

 

Something I forgot to mention yesterday (lunch at work so I don't have time to fetch quotes, although I imagine it will be somewhere in one of Hoofs post searches above...)
 
rereading Kraks bit on Turin not thinking I was Town...  It's because of the word change.  'Only I know that at present', 'I only know that at present'.  The first is what Turin said, the second is what Krak quoted and is why he thought Turin doubted I was Town.  Whether or not Krak did it on purpose I'm undecided.
 
(Probably obvious, but it took me a while to see the difference in the meaning)

I'm still lost on how that equates to Turin not thinking you are town in Krak's eyes. Turin only said the line above after himself on that post, not after you.

[csarmi]

Ten minutes left till dawn.

[Blackhoof]

Part 8-

 

 

 

 

 

Current thoughts on the List of Players:

• 01 - Peace:  The refusal to directly state his reasons for voting elf was a bit weird but it was fairly obvious to me that he was saying that he agreed with Cloud's case against her. The snark fest with Tommy is fiesty peace. Slight town lean
• 02 - Cloud (mentored by Darthe): Severe buddying to Tommy. ("yes sir"? ) as well as chainsaw defense with regards to elf's case against Tommy. He has been quite eager to get thru D1 it appears. This is usually more evident in mafia members that have good roles they want to utilize. The "i'm excited for this game" line doesn't fly for me. When you made the comment "when are we going to lynch Turin or Hoof" there wasn't much hoofie discussion yet. I was wondering why you picked him to put in there with me. You were following Tommy onto me so that I get but why hoofie at that point? or was Darthe pulling your strings there like with the Leelou is town thing? Mafia #2
• 03 - Krak (mentored by Verb) not much here yet to me. seemed to be primarily peanut gallery type posts. Undecided.
• 04 - GoldenEyes (mentored by Despothera) his vote on elf came across as a bad Despo impersonation. Like he wanted to sound like Depso but didn't want to put in the effort to multi quote. Just looks like lazy play so far. undecided tho.
• 05 - TommyRod: Mafia #1. attempting to lead the town.  advocated the "look at inactives" it works every time. Only the SithMafia deal in absolutes. A few other things.  Is Cloud more pro-town than you are? You are constantly defending each other and working together too much.
• 06 - Leelou (mentored by Wombat) Are you still voting Nolder? You accused me of parking my vote on Tommy but you put your vote on Nolder before he even checked in. maybe hypocrisy is the new black. And if I am tunneling and trying to get him voted out for whatever reason my vote isn't parked. Added to the Tommy defender team. The little shot Night 0 could easily be a distance ploy. If Tommy is mafia like I think then she could very well be also. mafia lean.
• 07 - Theodora (mentored by Key) Only thing I recall is her early call out of Hoof for claiming Hoof... Were you serious about that? I wasn't sure if it was sarcasm or not... Undecided
• 08 - Elffern (mentored by Dap) The interaction with Tommy early was interesting. I think she was trying to say that She found Tommy pushing for everyone to play his game off. The not voting until later in the day especially on D1 is classic Dap from about 9 months ago. That she has adopted it is reasonable I guess since she has been away for a while. town lean  
• 09 - Hally (mentored by Yates) More posting please ( yates must be turning over in his grim reaper hut) Incomplete. 
• 10 - BFG - Innocent Child -Back away form the alcohol and post more please. you are the only person we know is trying to help town win so all input and thoughts are valuable
• 11 - dansyc (mentored by Kaylee) ABSENT Waiting for replacement
• 12 - Nolder: didn't like his advice to BFG. Also didn't like that he called cloud out for actively trying to get a lynch on D1. There is no such thing as pressuring without the intent to lynch. it is like saying that you are voting someone to pressure them. If the votee doesn't think that you are serious then they will just ignore your vote. Also has been fairly reasonable which is usually a sign of mafia Nolder. slight edge to mafia lean. 
• 13 - BlackHoof: was behaving with just the one silly Blackhoof post which caught Thea's attention. Leaning town still at present
• 14 - Turin (advised by Pray) Town. but only I know that at present.

 

Mafia: Tommy, Cloud, maybe nolder, maybe Leelou. 

 

Town: BFG, Turin. 

 

. 23 hour day at present. Good  Night now

 

This post is crap.

 

 

A) Feels need to include himself in reads, like we believe that he's town based on his own insistence.  I love that last part, "but I only know that at present."  That suggests two things: 1) He isn't sure he's town, and 2) He doesn't believe BFG is town.  

B) Weak read on Golden

C) Has Cloud as scum #2, and yet hates on Nolder for "calling cloud out for actively trying to get a lynch on D1" in the same post.

D) There is completely such a thing as "pressuring without the intent to lynch."  I've done it so many times that myself alone makes you as incorrect as Nixon (or whoever) when he declared Marijuana a gateway drug.  To suggest otherwise is naive at best.

 

A>1.) I am certain that I am town. I know this because it says so in my role PM. You don't have access to my role PM so you obviously don't know this=> I stated it. of course it still means nothing because I could well be lying. But it is a fact I am aware of and so included it in my thoughts list.

A>2.)  BFG is mod confirmed as town.

 

 That these are the only two names I have as town is because IMO it is too dang early to have enough of a read on anyone to say they are town. your methodology may differ. That is fine. 

 

B.) Explain. this looks like filler on your part. 

 

C.) Why is it so difficult to understand that Nolder can be wrong for saying what he said( basically that it was too early to push hard to actually lynch anyone) and Cloud can be eager to get through the day(asking for a deadline, cheerleading lynches without making further cases) The fact that Nolder uses a weak argument to try to make his case is a slight ping. As ou know mafia will make a bad case on a teammate so that it can be worked out and then they both look reasonable. Sort of like Cloud and Elf. 

 

D.) Not really. Or if it worked the target was weak. Without the willingness or at least the appearance of the willingness to follow through with the lynch of the target, "pressuring for reactions" amounts to going through the motions. Posturing. You can think that you did it but that don't make it so.

 

But I am willing to hear what everyone thinks about that topic. I encourage everyone to state your opinion. Can you apply real pressure if you are not willing to lynch someone for whatever it is you seek to apply pressure for(or at least make the person think that you are willing to lynch them)?

 

 

Bolded the bits that stand out to me.

 

Turin has some good points here.  I haven't seen anything from Turin that implies he thought I was anything but Town.  Given Goldens flip it's also strange that this is the uncertain read he asks about (see Hallia, Theo & Krak who he also has uncertain reads on)

 

 

Why in the world would Turin think you were anything but town?

 

*Edit: Oh, I see, you were referring to my post within the post.  I misread Turin and was nitpicking because I wanted to push him and thought his phrasing sounded weird.  I believe it was Via who called me out on switching two words around and she was right, so I threw it away.

 

 

His ISO on Hallia posts:

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/86578-basic-christmas-mentors-maffia/page-52?do=findComment&comment=3125651

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/86578-basic-christmas-mentors-maffia/page-52?do=findComment&comment=3125660

 

 

 

Can we get back to the game? All this back and forth is giving me a headache. Where is everyone? I feel like we haven't heard from Tommy in ages.

 

Tommy mentioned he'd be gone all weekend, so hopefully we'll see him today.

 

 

And yes, we can get back to the game.  I think Hallia is the best lynch for today, how about you?

 

 

 

We have about 15 1/2 hours left to go.

 

 

Did you ever do that case on….peace?

 

 

 

Nolder. I suggest you ask for a replacement if you can't handle the game.

 

Really?

 

 

 

 

Here are ALL of Hallia's posts in this game. Her posts are in the spoiler tag, with no comments from me (save to say what something is in reference to if it's not clear), so that everyone can make their own judgments.Part 1 
*cut out Key's ISO*

What did you conclude?

 

 

 

Oh, I'm well acquainted with that particular annoyance.

 

 

 

 

Told you guys.

Seriously?

This is my take on it.


Everyone: I wonder what will happen if we push the red button?
Cloud: we shouldn't push the red button
Majority: we should push the red button
Cloud: *pushes button, canada blows up* "see, told you."

 

 

 

 

Good luck town!

Thanks for getting your reads out and not shutting down.

 

 

 

@BFG - it wasn't a case on Nolder, I stated that clearly. It was an ISO in which I explored Nolder's actions and the actions and reactions of those attached to them. That sounds stupid, I'm sure, but my intent was to explore and I decided I have a null read. I don't think you can call that dropping a case.

 

 

 

 

done!

[BFG]

Only I know that I am Town - what Turin said and true until his flip, i.e. nobody else knows his alignment (except mafia - and there's a possibility from them that he'd be third party)

 

I only know that I am Town - when he should know that I was Town as well. You should all know 2 things, your own alignment and mine.  It would be an interesting slip from a mafia as they're used to having to fake only knowing their own alignment. However we now know that's not the case. 

 

At the moment I'm inclined to think that it wasn't done on purpose by Krak, but that says nothing about his alignment in general. 

 

Don't know if that helps

[Blackhoof]

The stupid search isn't working for me .

 

what search?

[keyholder21]

Only I know that I am Town - what Turin said and true until his flip, i.e. nobody else knows his alignment (except mafia - and there's a possibility from them that he'd be third party)

 

I only know that I am Town - when he should know that I was Town as well. You should all know 2 things, your own alignment and mine.  It would be an interesting slip from a mafia as they're used to having to fake only knowing their own alignment. However we now know that's not the case. 

 

At the moment I'm inclined to think that it wasn't done on purpose by Krak, but that says nothing about his alignment in general. 

 

Don't know if that helps

 

Ohhhhhh. Got it. lol. I are dumb.

 

 

The stupid search isn't working for me .

 

what search?

 

The search in the upper right corner of the screen. You click on the wheel, then search for that person's name on the board. It brings up all their posts. It's working now though. I guess it was just a hiccup. I'm about to post Turin's posts. There is a LOT and there are a lot of quotes, so I'm betting it takes a bunch to get it all up.

[csarmi]

...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icQ9maGJ-TA

 

Leelou was furious.

 

Everything was going so well. The party was great. Apart from that accident with the punch, the drinks and food were delicious. The party host was so lovely too... and she said there would be some surprise as well.

 

The karaoke went surprisingly well too... but what a garbage they got for music!

 

“Such a shame, she thought. I need to do something about it. I must have left some CD's in the car.”, she thought and left, notifying her companion that she'll be back soon.

 

That was the last time she was seen.

 

Leelou, Town Masons has disappeared.

 

...

 

It's day 3. There is no deadline in effect. With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

 

[You may post now]

[csarmi]

Reservred, will edit this when I get back from the meeting. Day is going on. Play on.

[Leelou]

Bah! Go Town! 

[Blackhoof]

 

Only I know that I am Town - what Turin said and true until his flip, i.e. nobody else knows his alignment (except mafia - and there's a possibility from them that he'd be third party)

 

I only know that I am Town - when he should know that I was Town as well. You should all know 2 things, your own alignment and mine.  It would be an interesting slip from a mafia as they're used to having to fake only knowing their own alignment. However we now know that's not the case. 

 

At the moment I'm inclined to think that it wasn't done on purpose by Krak, but that says nothing about his alignment in general. 

 

Don't know if that helps

 

Ohhhhhh. Got it. lol. I are dumb.

 

 

The stupid search isn't working for me .

 

what search?

 

The search in the upper right corner of the screen. You click on the wheel, then search for that person's name on the board. It brings up all their posts. It's working now though. I guess it was just a hiccup. I'm about to post Turin's posts. There is a LOT and there are a lot of quotes, so I'm betting it takes a bunch to get it all up.

 

 

ARE YOU KIDDING ME!? I just trawled all 60 pages of this monster to get Krak's posts and I could have just searched for it!

 

....lame

[Blackhoof]

Another interesting choice with Leelou.

[keyholder21]

Golden's posts, without commentary. Had to break it up a lot because of the posts he quotes.

 

Part 1 -

 

 

[says hello. Edited out to try and limit quotes]

 

 

So glad you're up...we're out of chips and hoof is running around with a tablecloth for a cape and some burnt out matches claiming to be the evil villain something-or-other.

 

The thread title threw me off. I hadn't realized we were in Day 1 til I saw the thread had gained like a million pages already. Looks like a pissing contest already? Tommy is slightly obnoxious, but I saw a preview of that in his secret circle game. I think between his and Turin's post lengths I'm going to go put on my glasses. Town reads on both. Cloud appears to be coming out a little more aggressively, but he's been lynched Day 1 in several recent games, so I'm not sure if that's a meta change or just an effort to survive Day 1, something Blackhoof seems to not be doing at all. Leaning scum on Cloud. I'm getting a townie vibe from Leelou, always Null on Peace at this point, I admit to have a hard time reading him. Nothing else as far as early reads go. I'll be around tomorrow night most likely, but probably not for the rest of the day. Merry Christmas to everyone who celebrates, or whatever your end of the year holiday happens to be.

 

My chair is awesome Des. BFG, I will take your vote as further proof of your crush on me. I approve of the crush, but not the vote.

 

Asks Darthe to forward a link, says Merry Christmas. Edited out to preserve quote limit.

 

##vote elffern

 

Because you've posted ad nauseum about why your opinion is bestest and right. I find you overly defensive, frenetic, I disagree with a substantial portion of your logic and you engage in endless whyme fryme. Even if the scum vibe I get from you is wrong, I don't find most of what you say to contribute to actual scumhunting, other than to FOS several people and then submit an OMGUS vote which you lyingly claim is based on gameplay.

 

Meh, I won't hold my breath for some deep insights in your read on me. I've come to determine you're not as good as you think you are.

 

 

 

##vote elffern

 

Because you've posted ad nauseum about why your opinion is bestest and right. I find you overly defensive, frenetic, I disagree with a substantial portion of your logic and you engage in endless whyme fryme. Even if the scum vibe I get from you is wrong, I don't find most of what you say to contribute to actual scumhunting, other than to FOS several people and then submit an OMGUS vote which you lyingly claim is based on gameplay.

Whereas you have lain quite low, this is what, your third day one post? And I'm the only person to have pointed that out as yet, unless I misremember.

 

Most of my posting has been to refute others. Obviously I think my opinion on what I did and why is right and neatest, because I know why I did what I did.

 

Heh whyme fryme, that's an interesting concept (thank you Google) , however I'm still not entirely sure why peace voted me. Perhaps I'm just being stubbornly thick, but I would still like to know, because I like knowing stuff.

 

1. If it was omgus wouldn't it be on cloud?

2. Shouldn't I have done it right away?

3. Why am I lying? Evidence please.

 

Elf, I did a skim of the thread and I gave my impressions of the players in the post before my vote. i voted you for the reasons I gave. It seems that your game strategy is not to question statements or ask for better reads, it's to ask people why they think you're scum and to justify why their game logic is wrong. That's a great way to pad your post count while essentially only trying to avoid your own lynch. I think that's scummy and unproductive. Did I say I have been the most active and best scum hunter? No, cause I've been pretty inactive. When I don't like someone's actions in a game I vote for them. If I see someone else more deserving of the vote, then I switch my vote. Your next thousand responses will be to ask why I didn't answer your questions. I won't cause I'm not interested in following instructions, just like I wasn't interested in playing Tommy's dumb opening post game at the beginning. Maybe you're a victim of my own pet peeves, I hate it when people keep repeating themselves over and over.

 

 

Golden...your reaction to my vote on you is to insult me?

Yep. I put the same amount of thought in my response as you put in your vote. Elf was upset she wasn't getting reasons for why she had votes. I gave her my reasons and you decided it was worth an aha post and a vote. I responded with the appropriate level of concern. And that wasn't an insult, it was a flippant retort. I should note that I didn't pop up and FOS someone and leave, I voted and gave what I consider valid reasons. Something you appear to endorse below.

 

No..it's not a appeal to emotion. You are misinterpreting.

 

I don't care if I get lynched. I never do if I can be useful for information gathering.

 

My point to him was, instead of just floating the idea out there, back it up with a vote. Otherwise it comes across as seeing who else will grab on.

 

 

If he feels I am scum, then he needs to vote me.

I'll get around to being constructive and posting actual reads in the morrow.

 

 

[keyholder21]

I have Turin's as well, but Golden had fewer and I was trying to get them up before night ended. Blah.

[keyholder21]

Golden, part 2 -

 

 

 

 

 

Home now, here are some thoughts. It may take a while cause of the quotes. I will likely break up this post. I did try to cut down on most of the quotes by simply noting post numbers.

 

1- Peace (52 posts)- Scum. Most of them are a sentence or two and his game is obviously to poke and prod and get responses. This is his meta, but I admit it irks me. There are several people on DM who potshot a bunch and since they are established players, expect people to defer and give extra weight to their “reads.” They use this to lecture people on how the game should be played, like he does @184. It’s WAY too easy to manipulate this expected deference by new players, but I’d be lying if I say I wouldn’t do it if I could. I fell prey to this my first game with Peace and he turned out to be the GF. Flippant responses are dickish by nature, don't hide behind lecturing other people if you;re using them, own up to it.

 

I don't care if you don't want to answer a direct question cause that's gameplay, this is not what I'm talking about here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

##vote elf

So someone said you start every game with "yo" which means you're aware of your own meta which means you're probably not a very adept player (no offense intended) since you have a gimmick to cover yourself. Why are you me-too-ing Cloud's vote without any prior commentary or justification? If anyone has the right to be second in line here, it's me. Pls explain

 

Probably because I'm not a very adept player. Really, why are you asking questions you've already answered for yourself?

 

Uh... that's the cue for you to explain your vote. Go on. We won't bite!

 

Why is it necessary to regurgitate Cloud's reasons?

 

 

 

 

This is BS. You didn't answer her and now you're trying to be too cool for school. If you don't want to answer tell someone to take a hike, you have your reasons.

 

 

 

 

## vote peace you still haven't explained why you voted for me? I don't min you voting for me, so much as not giving a reason.

 

Btw, why nolder leelou?

then you need to re-read.

 

 

 

 

"Strong scum vibe" for doing what he's doing right now in this post

 

 

 

I take what is said in game as game play. Doesn't mean I can't do the same Nolder. You are way too immature to stand on any high horse.

 

 

Strong scum vibe from Nolder for his trying to tell people how to play stance. Major scum tell.

 

 

 

His vote on me is based on meta @305, which in this game is less than worthless. His read on Theo was decent, then tries to nudge me some more saying my “going into hiding” is suspect. Well, I’m was at the beach. I was there for 2 days. I just came home and will be going to a different beach on Monday, I’m on vacation. I will participate and read as much as I can when at the beach, but you’re not going to see me posting walls of text and quotes when I’m not home. I find that hiding post like a stretch, there are plenty of people who haven’t posted much, so don’t use inactivity to justify your vote on me. In short, I think he's taking advantage of his perceived OG status here, cause he's posting, but its all lazy analysis and lecturing. For example, this quote is far below his usual standards for gameplay:

 

 

 

To anyone who reads English it's obvious Tommy is saying just that. Peace is misrepping his words and hoping Tommy will hang himself with a poor justification. It's transparent and weak because of it.

 

 

 

 

 

If you're town you can prove it to me by going after actual scum

Now that is an interesting statement.

 

 

 

you do understand the conundrum there if Turin is town, right?

Explain

 

You are implying that if he doesn't find scum then he is scum. If he is town, he is uninformed. Conundrum. Catch22. Heading down a 1 way dead end street.

 

 

 

We're voting for each other but what he's said makes sense if I turn my brain 25 degrees. So maybe he thinks he's right and I think I'm right and this is some hot town on town action. I'll let him prove his alignment to me through scumhunting but as it stands it looks like he's tunneling on me for some reason... which I do not qualify as scumhunting. QED.

 

If I'm wrong on both of ya then it's no big deal -- I'll adjust after a re-read. Every interaction is a useful interaction as far as solving the game goes. Even if I am way off, the way people respond to it will be telling later in the game

I don't disagree with anything you say here. And I think his vote on you has a lot of OMGUS influencing it. But your comments in this quote do not explain that statement you made.

 

You've basically pigeon holed him into only finding scum or else he is scum. If he is town, then he is uninformed and may lead a town lynch. Way did you make a statement that only gives one option?

 

If you meant you want to see him scumhunting, then why didn't you just say that?

 

 

 

 

 

2 - Cloud (61 posts) Null- Super bossy and I dislike it A LOT. I’ll put up the disclaimer from the start that I get aggro when anyone tries to tell me what to do and so I’m most likely biased against him cause he annoys me for the following posts. :

 

1- LMAO. Am I supposed to care what you think of her case? There are literally no words for how ridiculous this post is. Never tell me what to do. I don't know who you think you are, but you don't have credit stored in this bank, I have zero reasons to respect your reads or game and it completely colored my reading of the rest of your posts when I went to ISO. I don't know why you think you're going to "lead" the town cause I don't see a line forming to follow your sage wisdom.

2- Now that's ridiculous. We will get info from every lynch.

3- Seriously? Now you're a community organizer? <<shakes head>>

 

 

 

1

Golden, move your vote from Effie. She is town. I also have no idea what you are trying to accomplish by chasing after her in the first place after I stopped casing her.

2

Lazy votes on Hallia are lazy. We won't get any info from her lynch.

3

Is thera any chance you might consider moving your vote to Turin?

 

 

Spends around 8 posts tunneling Elf and then declares she has convinced him she’s town. That’s fair enough cause at least he’s not afraid to back down. He’s locked in on Elf, then Nolder, then Turin and I don’t like half his arguments or the logic behind them.

 

See below

 

 

 

 

I wasn't twisting, just following a possible line of thought and knowledge of possible strategies I might use if I were mafia. I kinda glad cloud disagrees, as it means I still some nice devious thought processes left

 

And the tone, that was night one, this day one, it scumhunting time

You seem a little unsure about yourself. Also, isn't it twisting when you if you read his actions by looking at what YOU might do in his place if you were mafia instead of just taking it at face value?

 

Oh and yeah, I don't think analysing first posts on day one is helpful except to give scum reads on easy lynchs

There aren't any easy lynches in this game.

 

 

 

 

This is beyond ridiculous. Trust someone to mean what they say in this game? Understand their grammar maybe (looking at you peace) but don't trust what they're saying by taking it at face value. There's not even a reason to misrep with this guy, he WANTS to believe what you say. Gameplay in this game comes from questioning reasons.

 

Theory behind this post: Scum are afraid to OMGUS.... How does this make sense? It's the easiest early game vote to distance yourself from next to a joke vote. You'll catch some flak, but you can get away with it and maybe a train starts off of your vote.

 

 

 

 

I didn't feel it was enough to vote on, but it was/is enough to poke with a stick, and also get day one going further than merry Xmas posts.

Elf is using the classic "his play was scummy but it wasn't enough to vote him" scum tactic.

 

Also what tommyrod said peace, explanation?

And also notice how she is trying to shift the attention towards to Peace who voted for her after it was already explained that his lack of reasoning isn't anything out of the ordinary. Her prod towards Peace and her later vote on him means means that she is afraid of OMGUSing me. A townie would be less self-conscious about her votes than she has been thus far.

 

 

 

 

 

Hey, you're pretty cool, disregard your read and follow me

 

I had to break this into two quotes, because otherwise it wouldn't work with all the spoiler tags.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Personal attacks after I put doubt on you isn't very Christmaslike :(

 

It's not very town like either

 

##Vote Peaceinthemiddleeast

I only agree with you about his touchy attitude in this game, but the rest is null. Do something useful and follow me on Elf instead.

 

 

 

 

This guy is all over the place. I honestly can’t tell if he’s scum or just completely clueless and trying really hard. Asks for a deadline @372, which I actually agree with as it promotes people taking the game more seriously (like me), but is generally viewed as a scum tactic, limiting time for town to discuss.

 

 

I REALLY don’t like his exchange with Blackhoof @384. It comes off as desperate for townie cred e.g. “why aren’t you giving me credit for so and so when you give hime credit for it?!” I don’t disagree with the logic there especially, but it comes off as needy and rubs me the wrong way. In short, I don't like his gameplay, but I'm unwilling to label him scum atm.

 

 

3 - Krak (23 posts) Town. Not really a ton of content, but I find a couple of his posts to address specific points and follow consistent logic when they’re substantive. It helps that I agree with his logic. @238-9, 246-7 are the posts that gave me a town read just FYI.

 

5 - TommyRod (73 posts)- Town Super annoying and over-the-top obnoxious playing style. OP analysis is absolutely laughable, I don’t care what you believe. I can deal with the cocky , but cussing on a site where it’s pretty much banned is straight garbage and it makes you look like a kid trying to impress people. If you’re town and you get kicked off DM for cussing or modkilled, that’s really selfish and weak. That said, I see him as aggressively scumhunting, even if he does spam.

 

He has one single post that's worth looking at, the rest are meh for the most part.

Analysis below is color coded

 

 

Green- Agree

Brown- This is Doo Doo (disagree)

I have added thoughts in BOLD and have cut a lot of what I consider fluff or irrelevant for my purposes here

 

Updated to be current

 

01 - Peace

The meta-aware opening of "yo" in #13. He gets snarky as poop when I question that move, and makes an art out of dodging my question for a while. Very uncomfortable with the continuation of dodging, particularly in #127 with "why is it necessary to regurgitate Cloud's reasons?" This one pings me harder the second time, because town should know why they're doing what they're doing. It should roll right off the tongue because they have an organic thought process. They develop suspicions and act on them. Yet Peace has difficulty articulating any reasoning for his vote on Elf. No bueno. This is articulated better than how I said it

 

When I ask if this is normal behavior, Cloud and Leelou both say yes. It doesn't mean I am going to give him a free pass for that, though. Peace gets uber snarky when I ask for more detail from other players on his play. Then he backtracks and says I'm very town in #151...

 

Peace attacking my "you can show me you're town by scumhunting" comment in #198 by trying to spin it as pigeon-holing Turin smells like crap on second read. I've never had someone do that to me before and it doesn't even make sense. But that aside, it stinks because Peace and Turin have had no interaction with each other yet both have defended each other... why would they both be assuming I am scum and they are town? This only makes sense if they are masons or mafia. I'm guessing the latter based on their refusal to be transparent and dissect the gameplay within the thread,

 

02 - Cloud (mentored by Darthe)

I like that Cloud was beaten into reason by Elf and calls her town in #272 so I think Cloud is my strongest town read so far. Voting for Turin is icing on the cake.

 

I don't see how she won him over. ^^^ if this is your strongest, you need to do a better job.

 

06 - Leelou (mentored by Wombat)

Leelou spot on when she says Elf is beating a dead horse and Hoof is just making consensus reads. Strong town read, like Cloud.

 

13 - BlackHoof

Weak opening in #8 and #11. I'm not a fan of the cthulu jokey stuff. Post #51 just reeks of bullpoop trying-too-hard-to-be-harmless stuff. He outright ignores any attempts at discussing the game so

 

 

 

That post and @317 are why I think he's town. I think he's misguided town obviously in some instances, but town for trying.

 

6 - Leelou (45 posts)- Town. She’s on what I’ve seen is her town meta. Most of her posts are fluff and one-liners and I always think that’s scummy, but I’ve never played with her when she’s scum, so I don’t know how she plays differently there. I did find her point about Turin possibly just disliking Tommy personally interesting @319. I don’t know that it’s likely but it’s something I hadn’t considered, which does make me lean town on her cause it shows me she’s some analysis into her reading and not just reacting to what was said. I also agree with her points @298.

 

7 - Theodora (7 posts)- Scum read. 4- fluff posts 3 actual gameplay including a terrible list of “reads.” Asking why Turin is against Tommy and Cloud was super lazy, he’s already explained at length. Out of everything in the thread she chooses to write fluff on me as the second longest paragraph of her “analysis.” Afraid with me and Despo as a team “we were lost?” You mean scum? Cause from what she says, I’m playing terribly, so you either started the game presuming I was scum, or you are scum who slipped. Either is telling. 3rd on my train at the time of her vote .

 

8- Eiffern (30 posts) Still Scum.

I dislike her whyme fryme, which seems to be a thing she likes to do. Not everyone plays the same, so it took me a sec to see her style. That said, I will vote whyme fryme when I see it because I think it is a good general indicator of defensive behavior. To answer your questions 1- not necessarily, cause Cloud doesn’t really have a lot of pull 2- I think Peace annoyed you when he refused to answer your questions 3- I believed you gave reasons you believed at the time were legit, but I don’t think they were your real reasons, so denying omgus would be a lie. You’ve spent like 80% of the game defending your play and very little doing anything else. For a moment I thought it was a gambit to trap Peace, then you unvoiced him, which means you’ve wasted most of your posts in this game just trying to remove votes from yourself and not actively scumhunting. I’ll give you a chance to help yourself though. If you can answer the following to my liking I’ll reconsider my vote, cause at this stage since we have a deadline I'm not going to just park my vote on you out of principle.

1- How has your activity this game been pro-town?

2- Do you think you have been actively scumhunting? How so?

 

9 - Hallia (8 posts)- Null leaning scum. 6 posts are fluff and 2 are just commenting on the game. There’s literally nothing to go on. She does this a lot and I think it's anti-town until she picks things up.

 

10 - BFG - Innocent Child (19 posts)

 

11 - Via- (1 post) I have nothing to say here yet

 

 

 

 

 

 

[keyholder21]

Golden, part 3 -

 

 

 

12 - Nolder (29 posts)- Scum. He’s another one that’s all over the place. I dislike nudging without voting like he does with Cloud several times but most notably @181. If you really want to pressure someone and you think they’re scummy, why not vote them to pressure more? I do like his reaction to Peace @180.

 

I'm running a bit out of steam here, I've been Iso'ing for a couple hours and it's late.

 

13 - BlackHoof (12 posts)- Town. I don't think this guy is very self-aware when he posts and I think it costs him. Suffice to say I think he's not very effective town.

 

14 - Turin (24 posts)- Scum. I understand some people are more sensitive than others, but the sensitive ones that refuse to admit they are sensitive frustrate me. I agree with Leelou here, I think Turin is looking for a reason to vote out someone he doesn't like."you suck at mafia" is not a personal attack, it is a value statement of one person's perception of anthers play within a game that is inherently subjective. I don't personally care what anyone says about me in any game and I think it's naive to believe people will not target your emotions knowing you dislike personal pressure, because it is likely to yield result. And I am personally offended by any comparison to Despo, who only aspires to the level of emo I am capable of . For all your sensitivity to personal attacks, you do seem to like calling people "poor imitations"- you may want to google irony #392, @400, @434. I actually had a town read on you until this post, which was terribad. I cut out the first half, which you can just look up if you want more context

 

 

 

2.Think about this. Who knows the alignment of more players? Town or mafia? So who is more likely to be able to point and say that someone is of a particular alignment? And having town reads that you are too confident of in early game is very dangerous. it leads to following which leads to sheeping which leads to mislynches.The other problem I have with the out of the blue "player X is town" post is that it is worthless unless you actually provide real reasons. The first problem is that you could be WRONG.. you say that player X is town, you get killed and people start thinking that since you were town and thought they were town then they are likely town. point of discussion it is fine but I try to erase those posts when I see them. Why do you think Leelou is tow or did you just make it up?

 

3. Those were only 2 examples that immediately came to mind. there are many mre if one wants to go look. The point is that if town lets the first person to jump up and wants to lead do so they are setting themselves up for failure. you need to vet your leaders first and then see where they lead. to follow blindly is foolish IMO You only have 1 vote do not give it to someone else to use. Town is a team they do not need someone telling them who to vote and who not to vote. I guess I don't like the town captain thing at all. If they are heading the wrong way and get killed town is too likely going to continue on following the last woshes of the dead leader. He must have been on the right track so mafia killed him right?

 

4. your interactions with Tommy do not seem like natural town interactions for early D1. it was too immediate and to trusting. a complete web of trust as Dap would say. Maybe it is just me but I don't trust anyone that early, that much. (well except ithi in interest of full disclosure but that is because she will be investigated and/or killed early in most games) But your other actions like the appearance of pushing the mod for a deadline which usually helps mafia work to get a mislynch and the cheerleading do not sit right. As to defending, I believe that a very big part of the "case" on me was that I was defending Peace while IMO I was pointing out that i thought the initial comment from Tommy that Peace was no very adept was very much an attack. So in the words of Rambo "they drew First Blood". then for Tommy to get huffy about Peace's retort about ego felt off. Good for the goose and good for the gander.

 

5. I thought this was D1 of a mafia game? you look for any slip that you can find. Someone I believe said that mafia was nit picking.(I find it a little odd that you use that particular phrase as that is the same phrase that Tommy has used. maybe it was set out as a talking point in your QT).So only some are allowed to do it. very well will you give me a list of who is allowed to pick nit and parse words and so forth. As well as against whom we are allowed to this to. kthx.

Nitpicking is a common word and a very appropriate one to use in that situation. This is reaching.

 

6. blow your own horn much? "I am the greatest", LOL. post count doesn't mean squat once it is at an acceptable level. And it could easily be argued that your high post count is a sign of you trying to push lynches(mislynches) and get thru to N1 so you and the rest of your team can use your given gifts. It is what you have said that makes me question your motivation. You did ask the MOD for a deadline. you have made the obligatory "when we gonna get today's lynch done?" post. So your attempt to give yourself the title greatest scumhunter is denied. especially since you are currently voting a townie. As to Nolder, I don't agree that you should try to vote merely for pressure but the point of you pushing the day along was valid IMO for the other reasons I gave not for the fact that you pushed hard on someone.

 

---

 

9. Wrong read above about you. Leelou has done some things herself to give me a mafia feel. the hanging on tothe Nolder vote well past the time it was warranted. hell even she said she wasn't trying to get him lynched. since then she has also just follwed Nolder onto a low poster in the attempt to get post out of them. This is actually the same type of activity that I decried in my opinion on Nolder. that her vote isn't really a vote to lynch but to achieve some other goal. possibly as simple as parking her vote. (which is what she accused me of BTW even tho I have been fairly adamant in my conviction that Tommy is possible mafia and bears closer watching)

FOS'ing without voting. I don't like it.

 

10. See above. Your eagerness shows by your other actions. Nolder using your hard push of a case against elf was incorrect and I stated it as such. I do find that your 180 on her is a bit odd. You were trying to convince everyone to vote her and now she is so town that you are defending her hard. On D1? it does seem a stretch. Oh and I always keep my story straight as mafia. That is why Darthe always says I'm town. lol

 

11. care to put your money where your mouth is? tell me definitively who the 3(or 4) anti-town people are right now. Tell me in order how we should vote them. Once you are wrong about someone you volunteer to be the next day's lynch. If you are as good as you think then you will either be dead in the next two nights or the game will be over quickly. If you keep going after me and agree then you will be dead tomorrow. (Here is where he calls it a martyr play and no townie would do such a thing...)

That's just pretty gross. Waiting to see how many days you could wait to NK? Cause that's how it comes off. Then straight up threatens.

This is starting to feel like flailing and for no reason at all. The dude has 1 vote on him and I picture him slowly sobbing into a paper towel.

 

12' so mafia together then? LMAO or maybe you just buddied up to him and his ego fell for it.

 

So where is the actual case on my mafianess again? it merely looks like you disagree with what I am saying about Tommy and yourself. And Leelou also. The rest is mostly you defending yourself. TBH you look a lot like me when I am mafia and Ithi is town. follow along and be good. hide in the leaders baffles. then when the mislynches add up point at him as the one leading the town astray. It is easy as long as the leader buys in. At least until you have to choose between losing a teammate for cred or disagreeing with the leader.

 

##unvote

 

give me your list if you agree to the terms

 

 

IMO that post was so much fail that I gotta put him in the scum column, cause he seems intelligent enough not to be incompetent town. I'm kinda annoyed cause I had Turin as a strong town read up until this post. Turin, do you stand by everything here? Why did you seem to go aggro all of a sudden?

 

 

 

@ Turin - I thought you didn't like it when people put themselves down as town in their read lists and stuff - or is it different because you are doing it?

 

@ Krak - you have misquoted Turin in your post at 464 - what makes it worse is that you have included Turin's post in yours. I don't know whether you have just misread, or have tried to twist Turin's words here, but tried to do it subtly by just swapping two words round

 

@ Golden - I have more than 1 post. yes I am still only in single digits I know, because I replaced in. But by saying that I have only posted once means to me you have not actually read the thread, you are putting all these opinions out there but you are actually skimming

Nice try but you're reaching. I ISO'd everyone but you because I wanted to give you a chance to post and frankly you've done nothing of value in this game. Everyone else can feel free to check their post count as well. Super shady voting on an incorrect post count though, I didn't misrep anything you said. Pathetic, I'll immediately dismiss your opinions now

 

Oh yeah and

## unvote ## vote Faux-livia

For the scummiest debut into a game

 

 

Agrro? how so? There was attitude given in my direction. I decided to give a little back. goose and Gander and all that. Could it be that my attitude was so shocking or at a different level. Possible but I don't see it that way. Trust me on this one, even if you disagree with everything else I say. I am not bothered by what is said to or about me. I do however think that sometimes responding in kind is the best way to eliminate the verbal garbage.

I found that single post to be the opposite in tone of everything you've said so far. You may have questioned people, but you came out in in what I saw as uncharacteristically aggressive. I agree that responding is the best way to "eliminate the verbal garbage" so I appreciate the post. I post reads for more than just putting my opinions out there, I like to see responses. I appreciate you taking the time to respond to the post I had an issue with, you cleared that up. And yes, I believe yours being one of my last ISOs probably got less time than it could have. That's the correct way to respond to a post, back to town read on you.

 

Oh and as for my OMGUS vote, I spent over 3 hours reading through the thread and making that post. I actually decided not to read eleavia because I consciously wanted to give her a day 1 break since she was subbing in late in Day 1 and I thought it would be unfair. It seriously pissed me off that my one conscious decision to be nice responded with a shitty comment and then voted me. I don't really care what anyone says, her reasoning was sad, she pops in to the thread, look at a random post and then make a weird comment and then disappear without contributing much. I will read and analyze what she says, but her opinions... meh.

 

My vote is currently parked out of spite.

 

##unvote

 

I really don't like the Hally train FWIW. She's scummy by inactivity basically, but I dunno how voting her makes any more sense than voting an inactive. I have repeatedly been called out for wanted to lynch in actives early, just saying.

 

## vote Nolder

 

If Nol flips town then I will start looking your way Tom, you seemed to be tunneling on him lately

 

No party can contain me.

YOU KNOW IT!

 

 

Scum rules Town drools.

 

[keyholder21]

...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icQ9maGJ-TA

 

Leelou was furious.

 

Everything was going so well. The party was great. Apart from that accident from the punch, the drinks and food were delicious. The party host was so lovely too... and she said there would be some surprise as well.

 

The karaoke went surprisingly well too... but such a garbage they got for music!

 

“Such a shame, she thought. I need to do something about it. I must have left some CD's in the car.”, she thought and left, notifying her companion that she'll be back soon.

 

That was the last time she was seen.

 

Leelou, Town Masons has disappeared.

 

...

 

It's day 3. There is no deadline in effect. With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

 

[You may post now]

 

I'll get 'em for you, partner!

[Krakalakachkn]

 

 

Only I know that I am Town - what Turin said and true until his flip, i.e. nobody else knows his alignment (except mafia - and there's a possibility from them that he'd be third party)

 

I only know that I am Town - when he should know that I was Town as well. You should all know 2 things, your own alignment and mine.  It would be an interesting slip from a mafia as they're used to having to fake only knowing their own alignment. However we now know that's not the case. 

 

At the moment I'm inclined to think that it wasn't done on purpose by Krak, but that says nothing about his alignment in general. 

 

Don't know if that helps

 

Ohhhhhh. Got it. lol. I are dumb.

 

 

The stupid search isn't working for me .

 

what search?

 

The search in the upper right corner of the screen. You click on the wheel, then search for that person's name on the board. It brings up all their posts. It's working now though. I guess it was just a hiccup. I'm about to post Turin's posts. There is a LOT and there are a lot of quotes, so I'm betting it takes a bunch to get it all up.

 

 

ARE YOU KIDDING ME!? I just trawled all 60 pages of this monster to get Krak's posts and I could have just searched for it!

 

....lame

 

 

Dude…that sucks, lol.  I was wondering why it took so many posts to contain them.

 

 

Leave the search bar empty, hit the search button, it'll take you to a "we couldn't find what you were searching for" screen, scroll down to where it says "Find Author" and enter in whomever you want to ISO, then check "Display results as posts" then hit search.

[Blackhoof]

 

...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icQ9maGJ-TA

 

Leelou was furious.

 

Everything was going so well. The party was great. Apart from that accident from the punch, the drinks and food were delicious. The party host was so lovely too... and she said there would be some surprise as well.

 

The karaoke went surprisingly well too... but such a garbage they got for music!

 

“Such a shame, she thought. I need to do something about it. I must have left some CD's in the car.”, she thought and left, notifying her companion that she'll be back soon.

 

That was the last time she was seen.

 

Leelou, Town Masons has disappeared.

 

...

 

It's day 3. There is no deadline in effect. With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

 

[You may post now]

 

I'll get 'em for you, partner!

 

 

a mason claim?

good

 

 

 

 

 

Only I know that I am Town - what Turin said and true until his flip, i.e. nobody else knows his alignment (except mafia - and there's a possibility from them that he'd be third party)

 

I only know that I am Town - when he should know that I was Town as well. You should all know 2 things, your own alignment and mine.  It would be an interesting slip from a mafia as they're used to having to fake only knowing their own alignment. However we now know that's not the case. 

 

At the moment I'm inclined to think that it wasn't done on purpose by Krak, but that says nothing about his alignment in general. 

 

Don't know if that helps

 

Ohhhhhh. Got it. lol. I are dumb.

 

 

The stupid search isn't working for me .

 

what search?

 

The search in the upper right corner of the screen. You click on the wheel, then search for that person's name on the board. It brings up all their posts. It's working now though. I guess it was just a hiccup. I'm about to post Turin's posts. There is a LOT and there are a lot of quotes, so I'm betting it takes a bunch to get it all up.

 

 

ARE YOU KIDDING ME!? I just trawled all 60 pages of this monster to get Krak's posts and I could have just searched for it!

 

....lame

 

 

Dude…that sucks, lol.  I was wondering why it took so many posts to contain them.

 

 

Leave the search bar empty, hit the search button, it'll take you to a "we couldn't find what you were searching for" screen, scroll down to where it says "Find Author" and enter in whomever you want to ISO, then check "Display results as posts" then hit search.

 

 

will do so next time :P

 

 

on reread though, Krak is looking less scummy. honestly, was that all I had on him that made me suspicious? ugh

[Blackhoof]

I really am quite wishy-washy this game

[keyholder21]

Turin's posts, without commentary:

 

part 1-

 

 

[says hello. Edited out to make room for more quotes of gameplay.]

[says Merry Christmas. Edited out to make room for more quotes of gameplay.]

 

 

 

Dammit. I spilled coffee over my keyboard.

Salutations...

 

Cloud, I think there may be an app for that

Tommy, You stated that my post was an attempt to look busy. In what way? Like I do not have much time? or that I am in fact reading what people say? or some other random meaning...

 

Lol @ DartheCloud with the town pronouncement.

 

 

Personal attacks after I put doubt on you isn't very Christmaslike :(

 

It's not very town like either

 

##Vote Peaceinthemiddleeast

 

I wouldn't be surprised if we've hit scum already

 

-Self conscious (evidenced by OP gimmick)

-Sheep voting with no discussion, expecting the wagon to take off

-Overly defensive and gets into personal attacks on Day 1 (lol)

 

Definitely the most suspicious play so far

 

Follow me to the promised land

Attempt to lead town denied...

 

 

 

 

##vote elf

So someone said you start every game with "yo" which means you're aware of your own meta which means you're probably not a very adept player (no offense intended) since you have a gimmick to cover yourself. Why are you me-too-ing Cloud's vote without any prior commentary or justification? If anyone has the right to be second in line here, it's me. Pls explain

 

Top tip: anytime you feel the need to immediately say no offense intended, you are probably saying something offensive. I would count that as a D1 personal attack

 

.Hence ===> (baguette)

 

are you the pot or the kettle?

 

 

And before this turns into my "defense" of Peace, I don't like any of the name calling that I see in some games... So can we just get back to wanting to kill each other in a civilised manner?

 

 

First of all re personal attacks. I personally do not like or tend to employ them. I do treat everything on thread as gameplay. My main point was that Tommy was being hypocritical as I believe saying someone is a poor player (i.e. you suck at mafia ) is a personal attack. to then get hurt about Peace calling him out on ego was a bit much to me. Like a nerve was struck or he was worried his ploy was failing(worse in game IMO). That he now is after me after I called him on it and am refuting his(or anyone's with the exception of BFG who is confirmed) right to lead the town at this time is anti-town in itself.

 

As to what Nolder and Csarmi have said. Fair enough. *hands over 5 more imaginary points to BG*

 

Few thoughts.

 

I forgot 2+2 was a poker forum since I only play mafia there and nothing else

 

I don't think elf is particularly scummy in her defense, it seems like something I would write, so that's good

 

Commenting on someone's play style is not a personal attack, it's precisely game related. Getting snippy about my ego qualifies as personal though

 

Darthe is an asshole

 

I have to figure out who is grinding against me due to actual dislike for my grandeur or due to being scum

 

Re: the busy question... I've noticed that mafia tend to enter the thread after having read everything and town just jumps in

 

Turin's self-conscious "not a defense" of Peace is AIDS. The way peace responded to me seemed non-bullshitty so I could swing toward this being Turin as mafia defending a townie for cred, while also indicting another townie AND leaving the floor open to later lynching Peace because of the wording suggesting Turin thinks Peace could still be mafia. Win-win mafia play.

 

##Vote Turin

 

*** Elect Tom for mayor ***

 

That is all

I doubt that anyone on here would forget that this is a fantasy novel website. Even those that just have come in to play mafia usually at least poke fun about being amongst the "geeks"

 

Something that you wrote. Maybe you did...

 

direct inrerence, but I see it as an unneeded attack and also gameplay.

 

Darthe is a lovable demented crazy man. Cloud may indeed be mafia tho.

 

Both??? The big facade is great for mafia to hide behind.

 

Why wouldn't town read the thread? That would just be lazy play. Townies should read the thread to look for slips/pings/oddities. But thank you for your clarification.

 

AIDS??? I am assuming this is a term for really bad on a site you play? but well done on taking it there. Of course I think that Peace could be mafia. I only know BFG's alignment aside from my own.

 

well, if you want to be elected then you must be asking people to vote for you... I aim to please.

 

 

##Tommy

 

 

 

I think that Tommy's entire act is just that. trying to lead the town down the primrose path. I have seen skilled players do it when Mafia and If you can get the sheep to follow it works very well.

 

 

Stick to teaching the rest of your team on your QT for now please.

 

 

And BTW, I think I said I've seen skilled players do it to great effect, not that you were doing that now. I further disagree that there is any one way to play mafia. So trying to imprint your playstyle on others is not in the best interests of the game itself. It may be in your own best interest as it makes it easier to play with others that play a similar style. You and nolder going all "sole arbiter of play" here is pinging quite loudly to me.

 

If you are not sane enough to realise where you are at any particular time then maybe you are not the best choice to follow. And it was more along the lines that you used Peace's comment about poker as a means to attempt to distract you when again you were the first to mention it. So maybe you shouldn't introduce things that you don't wish to talk about?

 

From the mouths of babes appear some of the most universal truths...

 

Carry on. I shall be out for a bit

 

 

 

Stick to teaching the rest of your team on your QT for now please.

 

 

And BTW, I think I said I've seen skilled players do it to great effect, not that you were doing that now. I further disagree that there is any one way to play mafia. So trying to imprint your playstyle on others is not in the best interests of the game itself. It may be in your own best interest as it makes it easier to play with others that play a similar style. You and nolder going all "sole arbiter of play" here is pinging quite loudly to me.

 

If you are not sane enough to realise where you are at any particular time then maybe you are not the best choice to follow. And it was more along the lines that you used Peace's comment about poker as a means to attempt to distract you when again you were the first to mention it. So maybe you shouldn't introduce things that you don't wish to talk about?

 

From the mouths of babes appear some of the most universal truths...

 

Carry on. I shall be out for a bit

I don't particularly feel like simmering down just because you tell me to :P

 

If you wanna see how I play then read my only other game on here

 

There is a method to my madness and I get there in the end, even if I lay waste to the game to do so. Soz if you don't like it.

 

I don't know what to make of your attitude ATM; it's hard for me to tell with the Stubborns

 

Maybe you actually do believe what you're espousing here. Your perspective seems odd

 

If you're town you can prove it to me by going after actual scum

 

Last first. When were you confirmed as town? BFG is the innocent Child and therefore the ONLY confirmed townie at present. So for you to go around like you are the instructor of mafia in this game where even the experienced have mentors(or advisors) is ridiculous. I have used similar tactics in a game here at least once. There was a new player game and my student vanished at the start of the game making me the player. I was able to lead the town of new folks to achieve mafia victory. I have also seen Dap employ this in the Indiana Jones game I helped(term used loosely) Ithi mod some time ago. So forgive me for not being ready to follow into lock step with you.

 

I'm not gonna stop questioning you just because you want me too either so I guess we are at an impasse *insert PB gif later maybe*

 

I have read some of the other game. meh.

 

Stubborn is a valuable trait at times. If you don't know what to make of my attitude then perhaps you are not as good as you think you are. My perspective is odd? meaning that it does not agree with yours. how wonderful. Since I think you are the most likely mafia at the moment followed by your most pro town player cloud. In reading to here I did notice a lot of chummy behavior between you including where he defended you from elf. you called him out but backed off the defending charge from seeing his vote on elf. All that does is turn it from regular defense to chainsaw defense. But you already knew that.

 

Your actions are what lead me to believe you are mafia.

 

You start out with that ridiculous OP challenge thing, like Leelou said to WOW the crowd with your skills. Then proceed to demand that town follow you to victory. You don't say a town victory tho do you? And several times you have stated that anyone that grinds against you must either not like your style or be mafia themselves. How about I just think you are mafia?

 

No one else may agree now but at least you will be looked at with a bit of scrutiny going forward.

 

 

Back to reading... trying to get caught up after holiday and being up since 1 am for work ... back to page 10

 

Current thoughts on the List of Players:

• 01 - Peace: The refusal to directly state his reasons for voting elf was a bit weird but it was fairly obvious to me that he was saying that he agreed with Cloud's case against her. The snark fest with Tommy is fiesty peace. Slight town lean
• 02 - Cloud (mentored by Darthe): Severe buddying to Tommy. ("yes sir"? ) as well as chainsaw defense with regards to elf's case against Tommy. He has been quite eager to get thru D1 it appears. This is usually more evident in mafia members that have good roles they want to utilize. The "i'm excited for this game" line doesn't fly for me. When you made the comment "when are we going to lynch Turin or Hoof" there wasn't much hoofie discussion yet. I was wondering why you picked him to put in there with me. You were following Tommy onto me so that I get but why hoofie at that point? or was Darthe pulling your strings there like with the Leelou is town thing? Mafia #2
• 03 - Krak (mentored by Verb) not much here yet to me. seemed to be primarily peanut gallery type posts. Undecided.
• 04 - GoldenEyes (mentored by Despothera) his vote on elf came across as a bad Despo impersonation. Like he wanted to sound like Depso but didn't want to put in the effort to multi quote. Just looks like lazy play so far. undecided tho.
• 05 - TommyRod: Mafia #1. attempting to lead the town. advocated the "look at inactives" it works every time. Only the SithMafia deal in absolutes. A few other things. Is Cloud more pro-town than you are? You are constantly defending each other and working together too much.
• 06 - Leelou (mentored by Wombat) Are you still voting Nolder? You accused me of parking my vote on Tommy but you put your vote on Nolder before he even checked in. maybe hypocrisy is the new black. And if I am tunneling and trying to get him voted out for whatever reason my vote isn't parked. Added to the Tommy defender team. The little shot Night 0 could easily be a distance ploy. If Tommy is mafia like I think then she could very well be also. mafia lean.
• 07 - Theodora (mentored by Key) Only thing I recall is her early call out of Hoof for claiming Hoof... Were you serious about that? I wasn't sure if it was sarcasm or not... Undecided
• 08 - Elffern (mentored by Dap) The interaction with Tommy early was interesting. I think she was trying to say that She found Tommy pushing for everyone to play his game off. The not voting until later in the day especially on D1 is classic Dap from about 9 months ago. That she has adopted it is reasonable I guess since she has been away for a while. town lean
• 09 - Hally (mentored by Yates) More posting please ( yates must be turning over in his grim reaper hut) Incomplete.
• 10 - BFG - Innocent Child -Back away form the alcohol and post more please. you are the only person we know is trying to help town win so all input and thoughts are valuable
• 11 - dansyc (mentored by Kaylee) ABSENT Waiting for replacement
• 12 - Nolder: didn't like his advice to BFG. Also didn't like that he called cloud out for actively trying to get a lynch on D1. There is no such thing as pressuring without the intent to lynch. it is like saying that you are voting someone to pressure them. If the votee doesn't think that you are serious then they will just ignore your vote. Also has been fairly reasonable which is usually a sign of mafia Nolder. slight edge to mafia lean.
• 13 - BlackHoof: was behaving with just the one silly Blackhoof post which caught Thea's attention. Leaning town still at present
• 14 - Turin (advised by Pray) Town. but only I know that at present.

Mafia: Tommy, Cloud, maybe nolder, maybe Leelou.

 

Town: BFG, Turin.

 

. 23 hour day at present. Good Night now

 

How can you know cloud isn't mafia? You say that like it is a fact.

 

Hoofie is Hoofie. He is commonly lynched D1. I think that there are reasons for it. He will say something crazy during the day and then it will be latched onto and pushed as a definite mafia tell. Lynched in error. Then the mafia all go "well it was his own fault for ..."

 

I find it odd that your main line of reasoning so far has been that if anyone disagrees with you they must obviously be mafia. No one but the mafia know who the mafia are at this point, and there are few ways for townies to know any other townies either.

 

 

So you guys gonna claim masons now? Cause if your not mafia, they have already surmised that is about the only thing that could justify your complete faith in cloud at this time as well as his in you and the banter you are throwing back and forth.

 

You have krak in your unsure pile. What did you think of his following you guys onto Hoofie?

you didn't say Cloud was your strongest town lean. you said "cloud is town. I am town", referring to yourself. That was a definitive statement. Not an opinion. You seem to be back tracking from that now. Why? As the most vocal it is most important that the town know your alignment as soon as possible. Otherwise the potential for being led astray is too high. No one is Town until they are confirmed town. lean all you want.

 

I did miss the Krak request. well done.

 

Golden, not much there yet. He says he will be more active. We will see what he has to say. The elf vote post looked like bad Despo. Maybe Des is not as adroit at puppetmastery as Darhe, lol.

 

Nolder. I mentioned how I didn't really like his "advice" to BFG. That reasonable Nolder is often mafia. (look at the Discussions forum if you want yo see unreasonable Nolder). And that I disagree with his stance that Cloud was wrong to seek a lynch of someone he thought was mafia on D1. If you don't seek to lynch then there is no real pressure. It is just posturing to look like you are interested in achieveing a lynch. Mafia are more interested in posturing as it gets them things they want.(info into town PRs, outright claims where possibly unneeded)

 

Krak looks to be taking potshots from the preiphery. His follow along vote onto Hoofie pinged. I must admit the the "player X doesn't look good right now" phrase as voting justification irks me. If you think the player is worth a vote you should be willing to say they are mafia in your opinion. Not much else has stood out to me on him. There was an odd thing he said about me but I don't remember it at the moment and am not bothered to dig thru the thread to look tbh.

 

Didnt you accuse Turin of stating I was town previously? Is that not "town hunting?"

I don't recall ever stating Peace was town.

 

 

 

Ah, Turin, you and Krak are in my gray zone like you say.

 

Turin, why against Tommy and Cloud? Please summerise it for the stupid girls like me

My opinion is that Tommy is working too hard to place himself in the town leadership position. the silly OP challenge thing. Some of the statements about follow me to victory. His statement about the low posters ALWAYS producing results. there are no absolutes in mafia. Anyone trynig to tell you otherwise is trying to sell something. So I am very leery of him. My wanting to not let him slip by without any scrutiny may have gone too far and been stoked by the poor meshing of our styles.

 

Cloud especially on reread looks to be following along with a zeal that can not be explained by the talk of town leaning. They working together and that feels off for the start of the game. Also on cloud has been the push to lynch like he wants to get to Night phase. (he pushed hard on elf, talked about people stalling and waiting for the deadline to rush vote when there was not even a deadline yet, jumped at the "lynch hoof" thing before Hoofie had even gotten the chance to hang himself) The Darthe influence here is possible but it looks weird to me.

 

Cloud and Tommy have defended each other quite a bit. moreso than a normal town pair on D1 would have a right to IMO.

 

Cloud, those were just two recent examples that came to mind as I was directly involved or watching them happen. It is a common tactic that mafia will try to employ.

 

You have become quite the bossy MCBossypants here. Telling people who they can and can not vote on D1. With all your scumhunting skills. I call shenanigans. You starting to sound like a bad Darthe impression. The Mafia Darthe too which is worse.

 

you looking more and more like Tommy's like attack dog on a leash. attacking those he points you at so he can stay looking like he is cool and above the fray.

 

 

Turin, what do you think of my case on you?

It is wrong. maybe go into it in a while.

 

 

Why do you think you can tell others what to do?

 

 

 

I would love to hear your thoughts on my case by the way. Your aggressive attitude isn't making you look any better in my eyes though

LMAO

 

 

[keyholder21]

@ Hoof - yes. Why good?

[keyholder21]

Turin's posts, without commentary.

 

Part 2 -

 

 

 

 

Yeah Blackhoof doesn't look good.

 

 

##unvote vote Blackhoof

You now all of a sudden agree with me? You didn’t respond back at me when I retorted your arguments for why I must be scum, and you kept your vote on me since then without bother to reply to anything in the game except to call me out for buddying, so your sudden switch to Hoof without explanation seems odd.

 

 

Last first. When were you confirmed as town? BFG is the innocent Child and therefore the ONLY confirmed townie at present.

I don’t agree with your argument that you can only call confirmed townies, town. Town hunting is just like scum hunting an essential part of playing mafia, and you accusing Tom of having strong town reads sounds like a cheap scum strategy.

 

So for you to go around like you are the instructor of mafia in this game where even the experienced have mentors(or advisors) is ridiculous. I have used similar tactics in a game here at least once. There was a new player game and my student vanished at the start of the game making me the player. I was able to lead the town of new folks to achieve mafia victory. I have also seen Dap employ this in the Indiana Jones game I helped(term used loosely) Ithi mod some time ago. So forgive me for not being ready to follow into lock step with you.

You are against the idea of someone leading town because you have seen it being done by the mafia twice before? You are trying to support an argument by only presenting evidence that would back up your claim; a claim which is at the same time wrong because almost every game has a player who takes up the mantle of town captain on him.

 

 

Since I think you are the most likely mafia at the moment followed by your most pro town player cloud. In reading to here I did notice a lot of chummy behavior between you including where he defended you from elf. you called him out but backed off the defending charge from seeing his vote on elf. All that does is turn it from regular defense to chainsaw defense. But you already knew that.

So you think I’m scum because Tom has a strong town read on me? I have made a lot of game related posts since the start of Day 1 and yet the best thing you could find to try and accuse me was to grab on to that one post where I appear to be defending Tommy. You can’t actively engage in scumhunting without ending up defending someone else.

 

You start out with that ridiculous OP challenge thing, like Leelou said to WOW the crowd with your skills. Then proceed to demand that town follow you to victory. You don't say a town victory tho do you? And several times you have stated that anyone that grinds against you must either not like your style or be mafia themselves. How about I just think you are mafia?

And now you are just nitpicking. I bet that if Tom said that we should follow him to achieve a town victory you would have jumped on him by saying that if he were actually town he wouldn’t have stated it like that. The OP challenge wasn’t even that big of a deal to begin with, and so far I think you have taken jokingly comments out of context, argued semantics and made mountains out of molehills.

 

 

He has been quite eager to get thru D1 it appears. This is usually more evident in mafia members that have good roles they want to utilize.

I haven't been eager to get through Day 1 at all. I have the second highest post count of any player in this game, and I have arguably been the most effective scumhunter so far. It’s interesting that you seem to agree with Nolder’s line of reasoning because you start taking a completely different stance on this topic when you talk about Nolder’s play.

 

When you made the comment "when are we going to lynch Turin or Hoof" there wasn't much hoofie discussion yet. I was wondering why you picked him to put in there with me. You were following Tommy onto me so that I get but why hoofie at that point?

Check post #283 where I give my reasoning for why I don’t like Hoof’s vote on Peace.

 

or was Darthe pulling your strings there like with the Leelou is town thing?

Darthe hasn’t been pulling my strings at all. It isn’t even allowed for a mentor to actively participate in a game. I got a town read on Leelou because she seemed to have gotten genuinely annoyed at Tom’s light-hearted comment at the start of the game, and I don’t see a reason for her to be if she were mafia.

 

Added to the Tommy defender team. The little shot Night 0 could easily be a distance ploy. If Tommy is mafia like I think then she could very well be also. mafia lean.

You only seem to have a mafia read on me and Leelou because we both think Tom is town. Your argument that everyone who has a town read on Tom is mafia themselves is within the same line of reasoning as your accusation of Tom where you call him out for thinking that everyone who disagrees with him is mafia.

 

 

Also didn't like that he called cloud out for actively trying to get a lynch on D1. There is no such thing as pressuring without the intent to lynch. it is like saying that you are voting someone to pressure them. If the votee doesn't think that you are serious then they will just ignore your vote.

I agree with the things you said here, but the reason I quoted this part is because it’s in contrast to what you said earlier when you gave your reads on me. You repeated Nolder by calling me out for being eager to get through Day 1 and now you don’t agree with him anymore. So which one is it? I advise you to stick to one story the next time you are mafia.

 

No one but the mafia know who the mafia are at this point, and there are few ways for townies to know any other townies either.

There is. It’s called being a good scumhunter.

 

So you guys gonna claim masons now? Cause if your not mafia, they have already surmised that is about the only thing that could justify your complete faith in cloud at this time as well as his in you and the banter you are throwing back and forth.

Tom and I aren’t Masons or Lovers.

 

 

##Unvote Hoof, ##Vote Turin.

 

1. Why is this here? It is just ugly... This is supposed to be my case. get Krak outta there.

 

2.Think about this. Who knows the alignment of more players? Town or mafia? So who is more likely to be able to point and say that someone is of a particular alignment? And having town reads that you are too confident of in early game is very dangerous. it leads to following which leads to sheeping which leads to mislynches.The other problem I have with the out of the blue "player X is town" post is that it is worthless unless you actually provide real reasons. The first problem is that you could be WRONG.. you say that player X is town, you get killed and people start thinking that since you were town and thought they were town then they are likely town. point of discussion it is fine but I try to erase those posts when I see them. Why do you think Leelou is tow or did you just make it up?

 

3. Those were only 2 examples that immediately came to mind. there are many mre if one wants to go look. The point is that if town lets the first person to jump up and wants to lead do so they are setting themselves up for failure. you need to vet your leaders first and then see where they lead. to follow blindly is foolish IMO You only have 1 vote do not give it to someone else to use. Town is a team they do not need someone telling them who to vote and who not to vote. I guess I don't like the town captain thing at all. If they are heading the wrong way and get killed town is too likely going to continue on following the last woshes of the dead leader. He must have been on the right track so mafia killed him right?

 

4. your interactions with Tommy do not seem like natural town interactions for early D1. it was too immediate and to trusting. a complete web of trust as Dap would say. Maybe it is just me but I don't trust anyone that early, that much. (well except ithi in interest of full disclosure but that is because she will be investigated and/or killed early in most games) But your other actions like the appearance of pushing the mod for a deadline which usually helps mafia work to get a mislynch and the cheerleading do not sit right. As to defending, I believe that a very big part of the "case" on me was that I was defending Peace while IMO I was pointing out that i thought the initial comment from Tommy that Peace was no very adept was very much an attack. So in the words of Rambo "they drew First Blood". then for Tommy to get huffy about Peace's retort about ego felt off. Good for the goose and good for the gander.

 

5. I thought this was D1 of a mafia game? you look for any slip that you can find. Someone I believe said that mafia was nit picking.(I find it a little odd that you use that particular phrase as that is the same phrase that Tommy has used. maybe it was set out as a talking point in your QT).So only some are allowed to do it. very well will you give me a list of who is allowed to pick nit and parse words and so forth. As well as against whom we are allowed to this to. kthx.

 

6. blow your own horn much? "I am the greatest", LOL. post count doesn't mean squat once it is at an acceptable level. And it could easily be argued that your high post count is a sign of you trying to push lynches(mislynches) and get thru to N1 so you and the rest of your team can use your given gifts. It is what you have said that makes me question your motivation. You did ask the MOD for a deadline. you have made the obligatory "when we gonna get today's lynch done?" post. So your attempt to give yourself the title greatest scumhunter is denied. especially since you are currently voting a townie. As to Nolder, I don't agree that you should try to vote merely for pressure but the point of you pushing the day along was valid IMO for the other reasons I gave not for the fact that you pushed hard on someone.

 

7. Was that before you lynch Hoof post? if you could quote both for me it would be appreciated. for now I will say fair enough until evidence proves otherwise.

 

8. So it was a response to one post. because she reacted to an insult. alignment would not influence her response there IMO so I have to disagree with the read and also again state that it is IMO wrong to make such a statement and base future decisions on such a thing.

 

9. Wrong read above about you. Leelou has done some things herself to give me a mafia feel. the hanging on tothe Nolder vote well past the time it was warranted. hell even she said she wasn't trying to get him lynched. since then she has also just follwed Nolder onto a low poster in the attempt to get post out of them. This is actually the same type of activity that I decried in my opinion on Nolder. that her vote isn't really a vote to lynch but to achieve some other goal. possibly as simple as parking her vote. (which is what she accused me of BTW even tho I have been fairly adamant in my conviction that Tommy is possible mafia and bears closer watching)

 

10. See above. Your eagerness shows by your other actions. Nolder using your hard push of a case against elf was incorrect and I stated it as such. I do find that your 180 on her is a bit odd. You were trying to convince everyone to vote her and now she is so town that you are defending her hard. On D1? it does seem a stretch. Oh and I always keep my story straight as mafia. That is why Darthe always says I'm town. lol

 

11. care to put your money where your mouth is? tell me definitively who the 3(or 4) anti-town people are right now. Tell me in order how we should vote them. Once you are wrong about someone you volunteer to be the next day's lynch. If you are as good as you think then you will either be dead in the next two nights or the game will be over quickly. If you keep going after me and agree then you will be dead tomorrow. (Here is where he calls it a martyr play and no townie would do such a thing...)

 

12' so mafia together then? LMAO or maybe you just buddied up to him and his ego fell for it.

 

 

So where is the actual case on my mafianess again? it merely looks like you disagree with what I am saying about Tommy and yourself. And Leelou also. The rest is mostly you defending yourself. TBH you look a lot like me when I am mafia and Ithi is town. follow along and be good. hide in the leaders baffles. then when the mislynches add up point at him as the one leading the town astray. It is easy as long as the leader buys in. At least until you have to choose between losing a teammate for cred or disagreeing with the leader.

 

##unvote

 

give me your list if you agree to the terms

 

 

 

 

Turin, what do you think of my case on you?

It is wrong. maybe go into it in a while.

 

 

Why do you think you can tell others what to do?

 

Why are you taking everything so serious? I admit that I did a Darthe impersonation a couple of times just for the fun of it, but all my moves so far have been completly game related and had no ill will in mind. I'm trying my best to gain as much info as I can to try and solve this puzzle. And I'm not Tom's "attack dog on a leash". We just happen to share the same scum read right now. Notice how I don't go after Peace while he was casing him because I have a town read on him.

 

What are you on about? I mentioned no ill will. ALL posting on thread is gameplay. it is there to be scrutinized. that is how this game works.

 

My question. is why do you think you can tell others what to do? Because you posted on thread specific instructions regarding not voting Elffern since you were no longer voting her => she must be town.

 

 

If you wish not to reply to the question or backtrack from the previous statements then just say so. no need to be defensive emotionally.

 

I am trying to find out who is mafia here as well.

 

And who is Tommy voting now? I don't think it is me anymore. So maybe you were only budding as it suited you then.

 

 

 

Turin, you really haven't played mafia with me. At all. Give actual post examples of what you find scummy from me. I leave a joke vote until I find something scummy. Hallia not posting is scummy. She hides as scum, which I posted. I posted a couple mins after nolder since I was typing up my post and didn't actually see his vote until after I posted.

Correct on the first. Not gonna go thru posts right now. maybe tomorrow.

 

Meta defense noted.

 

I find it a bit of a stretch that with everything else that has been going on in the game that the first most scummy thing you found to vote for was that Hallia, a known serial lurker, had not posted much. Hell she has been a confirmed townie and lurked all game. That to me would be like finding Despo writing a Wall of Text with infinite multi quoting and spoiler tags scummy just for the long windedness. Also the way you posted it that you were just looking to vote her to get her to come and post something felt like just the type of voting but not to lynch that I was calling Nolder out for. That he chose the same target only made it look worse.

 

Fair enough if you didn't see his post. It looks odd and I noted it.

 

 

Let's have another chat.

 

Sorry if I ask a question that's already been answered, I skimmed most of today's posts as I've been really busy in another, more hectic game.

 

Do you still feel uncomfortable about my phrasing?

 

Don't you think it's weird Turin is still chummy with you but is really antagonistic with me and Cloud? Why would you be more "clear" than either me or Cloud?

 

Your vote's been on Golden for a while, right? About half the game now, in terms of posts. I'm surprised you haven't moved onto something else considering he hasn't said much, if anything, since you attacked him... for voting Elf, right? Yet you've had your own suspicions of Elf? Is that not what you're accusing Theo of doing?

Show me being chummy with Peace please. All I was saying is that you were acting like the bully that got his nose bloodied and then declared that fighting was not good anymore and tattled to the teacher to continue on with Nolder's recess analogy. Peace was merely the other party involved. You should be happy Tommy. It is all about you. Why do you keep trying to make it about anyone else?

 

That last thing sounds funny. initiating simulation::::

 

Peace: I think you are scummy for your vote on elf Golden. I'm voting you for it.

Golden: .................silence...............

Peace: Oh well since you didn't respond I must be wrong. Let me look elsewhere. I guess I should unvote.

 

LMAO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Turin, what do you think of my case on you?

It is wrong. maybe go into it in a while.

 

 

Why do you think you can tell others what to do?

 

Why are you taking everything so serious? I admit that I did a Darthe impersonation a couple of times just for the fun of it, but all my moves so far have been completly game related and had no ill will in mind. I'm trying my best to gain as much info as I can to try and solve this puzzle. And I'm not Tom's "attack dog on a leash". We just happen to share the same scum read right now. Notice how I don't go after Peace while he was casing him because I have a town read on him.

 

What are you on about? I mentioned no ill will. ALL posting on thread is gameplay. it is there to be scrutinized. that is how this game works.

 

 

This jives not at all with your earlier gameplay.

 

WRONG...

 

I clearly stated that I did not particularly like the name calling. I also said that it is both personal attacking and gameplay. These are two separate things. As gameplay it is still there to be scrutinized. Which is what I did in pointing out what I found hypocritical on Tommy's part and his reaction to Peace coming back at him.

 

Looking back and paraphrasing cause I don't do a lot of multi quoting or note talking

 

Tommy: peace because you start the game with the same OP you are not a very adept player...

Peace: something something and you seem to have a really big ego(inferrence I drew is to say that perhaps you are not really as good as you think you are.)

Tommy: well that got personal. why you so mean Peace?

 

Tommy started the slinging of mud, Peace came back at him. Tommy got all hurt and used that to say that Peace was getting personal when IMO Tommy started it. This resulted in Tommy responding to me after I initially called him on it. Well I ain't taking no sass from no one without giving some back so Tommy got some back from me too. Now I'm buddying peace in his eyes. I say bantha poodoo.

 

 

Oh by the way. Several people are interested to know your reasoning on the hoofie situation where you followed Tommy and Cloud. It looked very much like opportunistic mafia play. ( it was even the third vote I think. we all know how bad that is, lol)

 

 

 

 

 

[keyholder21]

Turin's posts, without commentary.

 

Part 3-

 

 

 

 

 

Current thoughts on the List of Players:

• 01 - Peace: The refusal to directly state his reasons for voting elf was a bit weird but it was fairly obvious to me that he was saying that he agreed with Cloud's case against her. The snark fest with Tommy is fiesty peace. Slight town lean
• 02 - Cloud (mentored by Darthe): Severe buddying to Tommy. ("yes sir"? ) as well as chainsaw defense with regards to elf's case against Tommy. He has been quite eager to get thru D1 it appears. This is usually more evident in mafia members that have good roles they want to utilize. The "i'm excited for this game" line doesn't fly for me. When you made the comment "when are we going to lynch Turin or Hoof" there wasn't much hoofie discussion yet. I was wondering why you picked him to put in there with me. You were following Tommy onto me so that I get but why hoofie at that point? or was Darthe pulling your strings there like with the Leelou is town thing? Mafia #2
• 03 - Krak (mentored by Verb) not much here yet to me. seemed to be primarily peanut gallery type posts. Undecided.
• 04 - GoldenEyes (mentored by Despothera) his vote on elf came across as a bad Despo impersonation. Like he wanted to sound like Depso but didn't want to put in the effort to multi quote. Just looks like lazy play so far. undecided tho.
• 05 - TommyRod: Mafia #1. attempting to lead the town. advocated the "look at inactives" it works every time. Only the SithMafia deal in absolutes. A few other things. Is Cloud more pro-town than you are? You are constantly defending each other and working together too much.
• 06 - Leelou (mentored by Wombat) Are you still voting Nolder? You accused me of parking my vote on Tommy but you put your vote on Nolder before he even checked in. maybe hypocrisy is the new black. And if I am tunneling and trying to get him voted out for whatever reason my vote isn't parked. Added to the Tommy defender team. The little shot Night 0 could easily be a distance ploy. If Tommy is mafia like I think then she could very well be also. mafia lean.
• 07 - Theodora (mentored by Key) Only thing I recall is her early call out of Hoof for claiming Hoof... Were you serious about that? I wasn't sure if it was sarcasm or not... Undecided
• 08 - Elffern (mentored by Dap) The interaction with Tommy early was interesting. I think she was trying to say that She found Tommy pushing for everyone to play his game off. The not voting until later in the day especially on D1 is classic Dap from about 9 months ago. That she has adopted it is reasonable I guess since she has been away for a while. town lean
• 09 - Hally (mentored by Yates) More posting please ( yates must be turning over in his grim reaper hut) Incomplete.
• 10 - BFG - Innocent Child -Back away form the alcohol and post more please. you are the only person we know is trying to help town win so all input and thoughts are valuable
• 11 - dansyc (mentored by Kaylee) ABSENT Waiting for replacement
• 12 - Nolder: didn't like his advice to BFG. Also didn't like that he called cloud out for actively trying to get a lynch on D1. There is no such thing as pressuring without the intent to lynch. it is like saying that you are voting someone to pressure them. If the votee doesn't think that you are serious then they will just ignore your vote. Also has been fairly reasonable which is usually a sign of mafia Nolder. slight edge to mafia lean.
• 13 - BlackHoof: was behaving with just the one silly Blackhoof post which caught Thea's attention. Leaning town still at present
• 14 - Turin (advised by Pray) Town. but only I know that at present.

Mafia: Tommy, Cloud, maybe nolder, maybe Leelou.

 

Town: BFG, Turin.

 

. 23 hour day at present. Good Night now

 

This post is crap.

 

 

A) Feels need to include himself in reads, like we believe that he's town based on his own insistence. I love that last part, "but I only know that at present." That suggests two things: 1) He isn't sure he's town, and 2) He doesn't believe BFG is town.

B) Weak read on Golden

C) Has Cloud as scum #2, and yet hates on Nolder for "calling cloud out for actively trying to get a lynch on D1" in the same post.

D) There is completely such a thing as "pressuring without the intent to lynch." I've done it so many times that myself alone makes you as incorrect as Nixon (or whoever) when he declared Marijuana a gateway drug. To suggest otherwise is naive at best.

 

A>1.) I am certain that I am town. I know this because it says so in my role PM. You don't have access to my role PM so you obviously don't know this=> I stated it. of course it still means nothing because I could well be lying. But it is a fact I am aware of and so included it in my thoughts list.

A>2.) BFG is mod confirmed as town.

 

That these are the only two names I have as town is because IMO it is too dang early to have enough of a read on anyone to say they are town. your methodology may differ. That is fine.

 

B.) Explain. this looks like filler on your part.

 

C.) Why is it so difficult to understand that Nolder can be wrong for saying what he said( basically that it was too early to push hard to actually lynch anyone) and Cloud can be eager to get through the day(asking for a deadline, cheerleading lynches without making further cases) The fact that Nolder uses a weak argument to try to make his case is a slight ping. As ou know mafia will make a bad case on a teammate so that it can be worked out and then they both look reasonable. Sort of like Cloud and Elf.

 

D.) Not really. Or if it worked the target was weak. Without the willingness or at least the appearance of the willingness to follow through with the lynch of the target, "pressuring for reactions" amounts to going through the motions. Posturing. You can think that you did it but that don't make it so.

 

But I am willing to hear what everyone thinks about that topic. I encourage everyone to state your opinion. Can you apply real pressure if you are not willing to lynch someone for whatever it is you seek to apply pressure for(or at least make the person think that you are willing to lynch them)?

 

 

[says Thanks to CS and then says he's going to bed. Edited for quote limits]

 

I will respond to your intro above and number the replies to the broken up post below...

We differ on what constitutes a personal attack fair enough. I call your post a poor Despo Impersonation I beilieve. It appears that some of the players are either trying to emulate the styles of their mentors or are just absorbing some of it through the shared QTs. I have only very limited experience with you playing but you seem quite different in this game. Who knows? maybe I am reading too much into all this. But if I notice something I will mention it.

 

For the record I personally am not sensitive to personal attacks, or swearing or hearing that things I do are terribad or anything else. I think I did once get upset in a game and had to take a break for about a day. That was because a player was making attacks against a person that was not allowed to respond. So call me whatever you wish but one thing from the bottom of this post. You are seriously mistaken if you think I am crying into anything due to what anyone here says about me.

 

I do find it very odd that you could have had a town read on me, especially a strong town read on me and then had it flip to solid mafia based on this post which is primarily a continuation of the stances I have taken all game long.

 

I love irony. I believe the phrase I used was a poor "impression", meaning seeking to emulate but not quite getting there. which seems to be continuing now with your choice of several of Despo's favorite words and phrases. Maybe you really do think along similar lines. If so then just tell me I'm wrong. or stupid or whatever phrase you care to use.

14 - Turin (24 posts)- Scum. I understand some people are more sensitive than others, but the sensitive ones that refuse to admit they are sensitive frustrate me. I agree with Leelou here, I think Turin is looking for a reason to vote out someone he doesn't like."you suck at mafia" is not a personal attack, it is a value statement of one person's perception of anthers play within a game that is inherently subjective. I don't personally care what anyone says about me in any game and I think it's naive to believe people will not target your emotions knowing you dislike personal pressure, because it is likely to yield result. And I am personally offended by any comparison to Despo, who only aspires to the level of emo I am capable of . For all your sensitivity to personal attacks, you do seem to like calling people "poor imitations"- you may want to google irony #392, @400, @434. I actually had a town read on you until this post, which was terribad. I cut out the first half, which you can just look up if you want more context

 

 

 

 

 

2.Think about this. Who knows the alignment of more players? Town or mafia? So who is more likely to be able to point and say that someone is of a particular alignment? And having town reads that you are too confident of in early game is very dangerous. it leads to following which leads to sheeping which leads to mislynches.The other problem I have with the out of the blue "player X is town" post is that it is worthless unless you actually provide real reasons. The first problem is that you could be WRONG.. you say that player X is town, you get killed and people start thinking that since you were town and thought they were town then they are likely town. point of discussion it is fine but I try to erase those posts when I see them. Why do you think Leelou is tow or did you just make it up?

 

3. Those were only 2 examples that immediately came to mind. there are many mre if one wants to go look. The point is that if town lets the first person to jump up and wants to lead do so they are setting themselves up for failure. you need to vet your leaders first and then see where they lead. to follow blindly is foolish IMO You only have 1 vote do not give it to someone else to use. Town is a team they do not need someone telling them who to vote and who not to vote. I guess I don't like the town captain thing at all. If they are heading the wrong way and get killed town is too likely going to continue on following the last woshes of the dead leader. He must have been on the right track so mafia killed him right?

 

4. your interactions with Tommy do not seem like natural town interactions for early D1. it was too immediate and to trusting. a complete web of trust as Dap would say. Maybe it is just me but I don't trust anyone that early, that much. (well except ithi in interest of full disclosure but that is because she will be investigated and/or killed early in most games) But your other actions like the appearance of pushing the mod for a deadline which usually helps mafia work to get a mislynch and the cheerleading do not sit right. As to defending, I believe that a very big part of the "case" on me was that I was defending Peace while IMO I was pointing out that i thought the initial comment from Tommy that Peace was no very adept was very much an attack. So in the words of Rambo "they drew First Blood". then for Tommy to get huffy about Peace's retort about ego felt off. Good for the goose and good for the gander.

 

5. I thought this was D1 of a mafia game? you look for any slip that you can find. Someone I believe said that mafia was nit picking.(I find it a little odd that you use that particular phrase as that is the same phrase that Tommy has used. maybe it was set out as a talking point in your QT).So only some are allowed to do it. very well will you give me a list of who is allowed to pick nit and parse words and so forth. As well as against whom we are allowed to this to. kthx.

Nitpicking is a common word and a very appropriate one to use in that situation. This is reaching.

 

6. blow your own horn much? "I am the greatest", LOL. post count doesn't mean squat once it is at an acceptable level. And it could easily be argued that your high post count is a sign of you trying to push lynches(mislynches) and get thru to N1 so you and the rest of your team can use your given gifts. It is what you have said that makes me question your motivation. You did ask the MOD for a deadline. you have made the obligatory "when we gonna get today's lynch done?" post. So your attempt to give yourself the title greatest scumhunter is denied. especially since you are currently voting a townie. As to Nolder, I don't agree that you should try to vote merely for pressure but the point of you pushing the day along was valid IMO for the other reasons I gave not for the fact that you pushed hard on someone.

 

---

 

9. Wrong read above about you. Leelou has done some things herself to give me a mafia feel. the hanging on tothe Nolder vote well past the time it was warranted. hell even she said she wasn't trying to get him lynched. since then she has also just follwed Nolder onto a low poster in the attempt to get post out of them. This is actually the same type of activity that I decried in my opinion on Nolder. that her vote isn't really a vote to lynch but to achieve some other goal. possibly as simple as parking her vote. (which is what she accused me of BTW even tho I have been fairly adamant in my conviction that Tommy is possible mafia and bears closer watching)

FOS'ing without voting. I don't like it.

 

10. See above. Your eagerness shows by your other actions. Nolder using your hard push of a case against elf was incorrect and I stated it as such. I do find that your 180 on her is a bit odd. You were trying to convince everyone to vote her and now she is so town that you are defending her hard. On D1? it does seem a stretch. Oh and I always keep my story straight as mafia. That is why Darthe always says I'm town. lol

 

11. care to put your money where your mouth is? tell me definitively who the 3(or 4) anti-town people are right now. Tell me in order how we should vote them. Once you are wrong about someone you volunteer to be the next day's lynch. If you are as good as you think then you will either be dead in the next two nights or the game will be over quickly. If you keep going after me and agree then you will be dead tomorrow. (Here is where he calls it a martyr play and no townie would do such a thing...)

That's just pretty gross. Waiting to see how many days you could wait to NK? Cause that's how it comes off. Then straight up threatens.

This is starting to feel like flailing and for no reason at all. The dude has 1 vote on him and I picture him slowly sobbing into a paper towel.

 

12' so mafia together then? LMAO or maybe you just buddied up to him and his ego fell for it.

 

So where is the actual case on my mafianess again? it merely looks like you disagree with what I am saying about Tommy and yourself. And Leelou also. The rest is mostly you defending yourself. TBH you look a lot like me when I am mafia and Ithi is town. follow along and be good. hide in the leaders baffles. then when the mislynches add up point at him as the one leading the town astray. It is easy as long as the leader buys in. At least until you have to choose between losing a teammate for cred or disagreeing with the leader.

 

##unvote

 

give me your list if you agree to the terms

 

 

IMO that post was so much fail that I gotta put him in the scum column, cause he seems intelligent enough not to be incompetent town. I'm kinda annoyed cause I had Turin as a strong town read up until this post. Turin, do you stand by everything here? Why did you seem to go aggro all of a sudden?

 

1.) Nitpicking: it is a fairly common word choice, but I did notice that it was used by both of them. Do you disagree that nitpicking is a part of mafia. Not all slips will be huge. picking at that little discrepancy can produce good result in the quest to discover the mafia.

 

2.) Read to the end. If it isn't clear I will explain why I didn't vote anyone with this post. But it appears that Cloud didn't take me up on my offer.

 

3.) read it more carefully. Maybe it was because you were tired from going through all the ISOs. Cloud has been saying that he is the greatest scumhunter in the game. I said put your money where your mouth is. You pick who you want me to vote for. If you are as good as you think then either (1) mafia will get tired of dying everyday and NK him soon proving he is town with his flip, or (2) the game will be over soon because town will eliminate the mafia quickly. The caveat to the deal was that if he leads a townie lynch (like say on me) after that town flip he volunteers to be the next day's lynch. Therefore, if he accepts the deal and pushes my lynch today, he would be forced to accept his own lynch tomorrow, because I will flip town.

 

Recap:

"too intelligent to be incompetent town": this is a derivative of the too smart to be wrong=>mafia argument that Despo uses. It is an awful argument because as everyone knows. Town is uniformed so can be frequently wrong.

 

If you knew me you would know that I play a lot by feel and tone. And am a fan of the conspiracy theory. I am sometimes very right and sometimes very wrong. Sometimes in the same game. Hell sometimes in the same post. Two examples of games I was mostly right but stubbornly stuck to bad ideas I had convinced myself of were the LEGO HP mafia this year in the White Tower and Nolder's? Labyrinth game in Thrak.( I think that was last year) some of the players here may remember how right and how wrong I was in both of those games. Bottom line is everyone is wrong sometimes and we all have been fooled before.

 

Again. I don't really see how if you had me as a "strong town read" until this post that your opinion would be so changed by my continuation of the same line of reasoning and thought I have used the entire game.

 

I stand by everything I say. except typos. I don't think I made any here.

 

Agrro? how so? There was attitude given in my direction. I decided to give a little back. goose and Gander and all that. Could it be that my attitude was so shocking or at a different level. Possible but I don't see it that way. Trust me on this one, even if you disagree with everything else I say. I am not bothered by what is said to or about me. I do however think that sometimes responding in kind is the best way to eliminate the verbal garbage.

 

 

@ Turin - I thought you didn't like it when people put themselves down as town in their read lists and stuff - or is it different because you are doing it?

 

@ Krak - you have misquoted Turin in your post at 464 - what makes it worse is that you have included Turin's post in yours. I don't know whether you have just misread, or have tried to twist Turin's words here, but tried to do it subtly by just swapping two words round

That is true about the list. I normally will not include myself at all but I did it since I copied from the player list and I happened to be at the bottom. I think I did try to make it clear that my "read" on myself was based on info not available to everyone. I thought I may have even overexplained it.

 

 

Careful on Krak, someone might think you are nitpicking

 

 

 

 

So where is the actual case on my mafianess again? it merely looks like you disagree with what I am saying about Tommy and yourself. And Leelou also. The rest is mostly you defending yourself.

My case on you was built around me disagreeing with your statements and pointing out how you are trying to make a couple of players look scummy because of them. I don’t see any reason why you think someone is scummy just because he has good town reads, or is attempting to lead the town, or is working together with someone else to lynch another player, or is being eager during a mafia game. These things don’t make someone mafia because they happen in every game; they can't even be called scum tells which you shouldn't base any serious reads off in the first place, and yet they form the entire case for why you think a couple of people are scum. This is the reason why I’m suspicious of you.

 

 

In response to your argument that I was rushing through Day 1:

 

Like you said you said you can’t really pressure someone without having the intent to lynch; it doesn’t convey the same level of threat behind your actions and the person you are going after won’t feel pressured. You may think that I was trying to rush through Day 1 but I have only been aggressive in my casing to try and gain as much info as I possibly can which allows me to generate better reads. I ended up pushing for a deadline because I noticed that the activity in the thread was starting to dwindle and a deadline would force more players who were laying low to step up their game, share their reads and vote.

 

 

What are you on about? I mentioned no ill will. ALL posting on thread is gameplay. it is there to be scrutinized. that is how this game works.

 

My question. is why do you think you can tell others what to do? Because you posted on thread specific instructions regarding not voting Elffern since you were no longer voting her => she must be town.

I agree with you that all posting on thread is gameplay, but I still felt the need to point it out to you because you were getting so worked up over my playstyle.

 

I was interested in how Golden would react to my arrogant post. I never expected him to actually follow me around.

 

You are trying to have it both ways tho. you disagree with my ideas of what is reasonable on D1. I think that you should be careful about putting anyone too firmly into the town pile as it were too early in D1. I don't follow the psychobabble so maybe that is the disconnect. I say that players working in virtual lockstep at the time you and Tommy were is alarming. If for no other reason that it leaves you very vulnerable to following mafia by trusting your reads too strongly. I don't trust that much so your method is foreign to me.

 

good town reads: only time will tell if they are or not. IMO the risk is greater than the reward by allowing yourself to think anyone not MAD confirmed is town too early in the game. And early D1 is too early to me.

 

Town leader: if mafia and followed due to charisma or brute force can do irreparable damage to town. This goes back to giving town reads too early. Also. beware of the person that is looking to take that mantle from the start. Especially if they live thru a few days.

 

Eager play: mafia is more likely to attempt to push something to see if they can get an easy mislynch or at least a nice juicy claim.

 

To say these things are not mafia tells because they happen every game doesn't work for me. Maybe I have an alternate view from you but it has worked well for me in the past to find mafia. Just as you use what works for you.

 

To be fair though town players should push lynches also. I really don't have a problem about pushing people if you think they are mafia. The problem I had was basically asking for a deadline. Especially since you had already been trying to use bad consolidation voting as a reason for your push. It looked like you were trying to set the conditions for your argument. prepare the battlefield if you will. As far as prodding the MOD because of actiivity, believe it if you will, I don't so another difference of opinion.

 

 

I must be missing where I was getting worked up. whatever. I must say that I am not fond of you now saying that you made that post to Golden "for reactions" How about the one regarding the Hallia votes? My problem with doing things "for reactions" is that it damages credibility because you are backing away from direct statements you are making. So if you do it once or twice or three times, how do we know when you are actually being serious? we have to ask and then accept what you decide after it has had a chance to play in the room already. Float the idea and only stand by the ones that are popular. politician.

 

So do you refuse my offer to vote where you wish if you accept the consequences of a mislynch?

 

Well I guess cloud doesn't want to take me up on my offer. I still find him shady but that isn't going anywhere today. I guess time will tell if I am wrong again.

 

## vote Krak

 

I don't like his explanation of his Hoof vote. "for reactions" is crap. You said you got something from Tommy, Cloud and I questioning your vote. What do you think you got? It felt more like you hit the eject button when you saw people question your lack of reasoning and the other supporters switched.

 

I'll say fair enough to your critique of my Golden read. TBH he hadn't posted much to go from yet. his big giant post was after that. I can see him as mafia as well as you. I really do not like that he basically said he was going to ignore everything someone said. Not very town behavior IMO.

## unvote

 

## vote Golden

 

 

I don't really like his double flip flop on me. It smacks of fake scumhunting (I had you as town but now mafia, oh okay town again) and buddying. Which is doubly weird since I am not a likely buddy target at this point in the game.

 

I will be around today but not have a whole lot of time.

 

 

Might be able to get to reply to cloud but tl;dr version for not voting you is I had Tommy as the leader and by the time I got to you being the more likely mafia of the two it is too late in the day and your lynch is too unlikely.

 

 

 

Oh and BTW Csarmi, I actually like the VC style.

 

 

Via, Krak and Hoof are mafia. If the game is still going on then Effie is too.

 

/game

You can scrap Effie of that list because we only have 4 mafia. There is also a third party out there though.

 

Do you think in a game of 14 there will be 4 mafia and a third party?

 

Why are you so sure there are 4 mafia? with a third party player it would seem more like there would be 3 mafia.

 

Why are you so certain there is a third party?

 

If there is how can you conclude so strongly on the townies?

 

The joy of third party is being able to really scumhunt, especially a survivor. they would want to be as "town" as possible

 

I will go back and look at your post now cloud

 

 

@BFG #517:

 

 

Here I quoted the two posts that Turin wrote on page 10. Now allow me to point out I where I disagree with him.

 

 

First of all re personal attacks. I personally do not like or tend to employ them. I do treat everything on thread as gameplay. My main point was that Tommy was being hypocritical as I believe saying someone is a poor player (i.e. you suck at mafia ) is a personal attack. to then get hurt about Peace calling him out on ego was a bit much to me. Like a nerve was struck or he was worried his ploy was failing(worse in game IMO). That he now is after me after I called him on it and am refuting his(or anyone's with the exception of BFG who is confirmed) right to lead the town at this time is anti-town in itself.

 

As to what Nolder and Csarmi have said. Fair enough. *hands over 5 more imaginary points to BG*

 

Few thoughts.

 

I forgot 2+2 was a poker forum since I only play mafia there and nothing else

 

I don't think elf is particularly scummy in her defense, it seems like something I would write, so that's good

 

Commenting on someone's play style is not a personal attack, it's precisely game related. Getting snippy about my ego qualifies as personal though

 

Darthe is an asshole

 

I have to figure out who is grinding against me due to actual dislike for my grandeur or due to being scum

 

Re: the busy question... I've noticed that mafia tend to enter the thread after having read everything and town just jumps in

 

Turin's self-conscious "not a defense" of Peace is AIDS. The way peace responded to me seemed non-bullshitty so I could swing toward this being Turin as mafia defending a townie for cred, while also indicting another townie AND leaving the floor open to later lynching Peace because of the wording suggesting Turin thinks Peace could still be mafia. Win-win mafia play.

 

##Vote Turin

 

*** Elect Tom for mayor ***

 

That is all

I doubt that anyone on here would forget that this is a fantasy novel website. Even those that just have come in to play mafia usually at least poke fun about being amongst the "geeks"

 

Something that you wrote. Maybe you did...

 

direct inrerence, but I see it as an unneeded attack and also gameplay.

 

Darthe is a lovable demented crazy man. Cloud may indeed be mafia tho.

 

Both??? The big facade is great for mafia to hide behind.

 

Why wouldn't town read the thread? That would just be lazy play. Townies should read the thread to look for slips/pings/oddities. But thank you for your clarification.

 

AIDS??? I am assuming this is a term for really bad on a site you play? but well done on taking it there. Of course I think that Peace could be mafia. I only know BFG's alignment aside from my own.

 

well, if you want to be elected then you must be asking people to vote for you... I aim to please.

 

 

##Tommy

 

 

 

I think that Tommy's entire act is just that. trying to lead the town down the primrose path. I have seen skilled players do it when Mafia and If you can get the sheep to follow it works very well.

 

I only agree with Turin about the personal attack bit.

 

The rest I mostly disagree with:

 

- It looks like Turin is trying to descredit Tom because he forgot that another forum also was a poker website. Sounds cheap.

- He is implying that Elf and Tom are teammates without backing it up. Turin appears to be fond of using these comments to pressure people.

- They disagree what justifies as a personal attack and what not. I think this is fair because the matter is very subjective.

- He says that I may be mafia. You can literally say this about everyone in the game except for BFG. I see no reason why he put his "read" on me in here except to just appear to be scumhunting.

- I actually agree with his next comment that it would be a good place for his mafia to hide behind.

- I have seen a lot of townies jump into a game without having read the entire thread first. I think there is a certain pressure from the mafia team to know what is going on and they usually also inform each other of recent events through the QT.

- Another safe response by saying that Peace could be mafia, and that he only knows his own and BFG's allignment.

- Again I disagree that trying to take on the role of town captain automatically makes someone scum.

- And lastly he is giving a vague example how it all went wrong when someone was doing the thing Tommy is trying to do. Of course you shouldn't trust someone who is trying to take the lead, but you do that by actually analyzing that person's play and not just coming to the conclusion that if he is trying to lead the town he must be scum.

 

 

Stick to teaching the rest of your team on your QT for now please.

 

 

And BTW, I think I said I've seen skilled players do it to great effect, not that you were doing that now. I further disagree that there is any one way to play mafia. So trying to imprint your playstyle on others is not in the best interests of the game itself. It may be in your own best interest as it makes it easier to play with others that play a similar style. You and nolder going all "sole arbiter of play" here is pinging quite loudly to me.

 

If you are not sane enough to realise where you are at any particular time then maybe you are not the best choice to follow. And it was more along the lines that you used Peace's comment about poker as a means to attempt to distract you when again you were the first to mention it. So maybe you shouldn't introduce things that you don't wish to talk about?

 

From the mouths of babes appear some of the most universal truths...

 

Carry on. I shall be out for a bit

- He is again implying that Tom and a couple of other people are mafia in a jokingly way without backing it up with any kind of convincing argumentation.

- I agree with Turin that there isn't just one way to play mafia, and I personally find mafia as a game enjoyable because every player has a different playstyle. I however don't see how acting like the sole arbiter means that someone is again mafia. It's a null tell in my opinon.

- He is trying to discredit Tom because of his chaotic playstyle, and he is again attacking him because he forgot that 2+2 also functions as a poker site.

 

First part:

1.) Wrong I was trying to discredit Tom because he accused Peace of trying to distract him by mentioning poker when he brought up the fact that he frequents a poker website. Maybe I am in the minority in this but I wouldn't go to another site just to play more mafia unless I thought I would also enjoy other activities on the sire.

2.) my thought process is maybe a bit off here, but it was more a chance to tweak at Tommy because he struck me as a big ego player. Many of them hate to have their ego bruised. it is as follows: Tommy has big ego>Say he did co-write it on their QT>It is conceivable that he would like to get credit (at least on his QT) for tweaking town in manner like this. It is my experience that some players will do a few extra things just to have a little more fun. It is a little thing overall for me however.

3.) Fair enough

4.) It was more a matter that Darthe happened to be your mentor. Also that you were doing things(buddying Tommy mainly) that gave me a mafia feel to you.

5.) This seems a slight contradiction to me. You say that there is pressure from the mafia teammates to know what is going on and then state that the mafia will be putting out pertinent facts in the QT meaning that you don't necessarily need to read all the thread in order to jump in. The funny thing about all of this is that the situation in question (my mentioning something in your post, the immediate post before mine) did NOT require me to read anything except that post if I was on my computer at the time. So you could say that I only appeared to read the thread. wrap your head around that.

6.) Is it not true however?

7.) Not necessarily scum for trying to become town leader, but needing to be watched before giving them that title.

8.) Exactly what I wanted to do. Analyze his play and decide for myself if I thought I trusted him. there were pings initially so I chose to dig my heels in a little. My point on your play was that you were usuing the thought process of follow first ask questions later. This of course merely my opinion.

 

Second part:

1.) Purely a tweak at Tommy. He is a big boy and can obviously handle it.

2.) The tactic is used as a means to beat opposition into submission. combine the arbiter of play and the town leader in one and you have lemmings.

3.) He stated that he might not be sane> why should we follow a crazy person? the poker site thing was already addressed but you appear to have dismissed my point. so no worries.

 

It still looks to me like your main thought of why I am mafia (or thought that) was that I attacked Tommy, a player you had a "town read" on early on D1. You have since stated that you are NOT masons with him so I find it difficult to see how you are so trusting in any read from that early in the game to defend him so hard.

I don't have a lot of time so I will respond to the most important bits right now:

 

@Turin #524:

 

Fair enough. We disagree on what constitutes as scummy play and that is fine with me. I'm also not fond of posting things just for reactions and I agree with you that it makes you lose credibility which is very difficult to gain back. I however didn't say anything I didn't stand behind in my post to Golden. I do think that Effie is town, and I didn't see why he was pushing for her lynch after I backed away from her. The way that I was fishing for reactions is in the presentation of my post to him. I decided to post in an arrogant way to see how convinced he was of Effie's mafianess, but I have to admit that I didn't get any good result from him because he reacted very emotional.

 

Of course I refuse to play your little mindgame. I never said that I was the greatest scumhunter in the game. I said that I was arguably the most effective scumhunter so far, meaning that I have been hunting the most and trying my best to establish good reads. I don't think that I'm the best player in this game, not by a long shot, but I do try my best to improve my play. I say this because I can easily be wrong about my reads and following you in your game can only lead to disaster because the entire discussion would be centered around me and the mafia would have a very easy excuse to hide their votes behind my actions. You seem to be awfully sure that I will flip mafia because of your proposal to play this game which I think is very anti-town, and yet I haven't seen any good argument from you why I'm mafia or any vote on me to back up your claims.

So you do not see that just because someone is cleared in your mind that someone else might still think they are mafia? that is a very dangerous mindset for this game. It leads to disregarding what people are saying which leads to mislynches and to mafia victory. What did you think of Golden's reply? I don't think you voted him right away. I could be wrong there tho.

 

It was never a mindgame. You defended your actions in defending Tom by stating that it was your townhunting ability. That you were the most effective scumhunter in the game. Doing your best is exactly what everyone needs to do. Do you not see that in making those statements like "you can't be serious for voting Elf" or "when do we lynch Turin and Hoof" that you are giving the mafia places to hide as well? They can still be clumsy and get caught following where you lead but it aids them in their quest to stay hidden amongst the town. And since the night began you have now given a list of who the mafia are and your reasoning(some I do agree with) So you obviously are confident in your choices. So why now and not then. you seemed very confident when you gave those most recent reads. No hemming or hawwing about the possibility of being wrong.

 

Why I see you as potential mafia:

1.) extreme buddying to Tommy including chainsaw defense for him against Elf originally and then me. THIS is the main thing that bugs me. It was too soon to give this much trust to anyone without a special reason. You have denied being masons so that aint it. You can't have viewed him as town as it is D1. that aint it. it just doesn't make sense.

2.) the string of statements "for reactions" Just like I don't like Krak for saying his vote was for reactions when he followed you guys onto Hoof. Like I said before it feels like your are floating ideas and then only standing by the ones that gain traction.

 

As someone that has done a fair share of buddying on occasion, I kind of know what it looks like.

 

VoteCount Day01#14

 

 

01 - Peace: -> Elf -> Golden

02 - Cloud: -> Elf -> Turin -> Hoof -> Turin

03 - Krak: -> Cloud -> Hoof -> NULL

04 - GoldenEyes: -> Elf -> Via -> NULL

05 - TommyRod: -> Peace -> Turin -> Hoof -> NULL -> Nolder -> Hally

06 - Leelou: -> Nolder -> Hally

07 - Theodora: -> Golden

08 - Elffern: -> Peace -> NULL -> Nolder

09 - Hally: -> Golden -> Nolder

10 - BFG: -> Golden -> NULL -> Nolder

11 - Via: -> Golden

12 - Nolder: -> Hally

13 - BlackHoof: -> Peace -> Nolder

14 - Turin: -> Tommy -> NULL -> Krak

 

 

 

Golden - 3 - Peace, Thea, Via

Hally - 3 - Nolder, Leelou, Tommy

Turin - 1 - Cloud

Nolder - 4 - BFG, Elf, Hally, Hoof

Krak - 1 - Turin

 

Not voting: Krak, Golden

8 to lynch.

Deadline: 2013-12-29, 20:00 GMT

Countdown: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20131229T21&p0=50&msg=ChristmasMM-D1

 

In 8 hours and 32 minutes.

quoted to show where the VC was at the time of his posting. Hey does that mean you followed me onto voting Krak? lol