[Basic] Weasley vs Malfoy at the Ministry - Game over - Weasleys win

[Leelou]

 

Well, scum won't touch you now with all the WIFOM out there. Plus, Day 1 would be perfect to clear this all up if you are both town instead of later in the game when the numbers will be dwindling.

Now that's an anti-town agenda you're pushing there Leelou.

 

If one of us is scum, let MAFFIA worry about how to remove us and when - cause they would have to do that eventually and you know that very well.

If both of us are town, you should be happy that maffia won't shoot us.

 

Win-win?

 

Yes if we keep staying alive, the case has to be reconsidered, possibly daily. But this is surely the worst time to clear that up.

 

 

If one of you are scum, it's best for town to vote you, doncha think? And this will come up daily and distract from the game. Plus, we have 2 claims of Fred. You brought yourself into the spotlight by your play. You were not playing an overly townie game no matter how much you think you were. 

[Thorum]

Apologies and good night.

 

Votecounts and presences. Italicized people have yet to post or send a pm before night's end.

Day 1
up to and including post #374
Salami (5) - Tina, Leelou, Desp, Peace
Desp (1) - AVM
GF (1) - Dice
Not voting (5) - Mish, Verbal, Graendal, BFG, Salami

 

12 alive, so 7 votes for a lynch.  Deadline: http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20131114T21&p0=48&msg=End+of+day+1, or hammer.

 

Spelling Bee Points
5 - BFG
1 - Verbal

[_CLOUD]

@Cloud - the point is that ANYONE CAN LIE ABOUT WHETHER THEY ARE CLAIMING TRUE so that's in itself gives us nothing. That was a response to the line of thought where you asked about how I could believe AVM to be town (which I never said he did) as he did NOT say it was his real claim.

 

The point is that it does NOT MATTER. Even if he did say that, we wouldn't know whether he was telling the truth.

 

GAH

 

Can you freakin stop yelling at me?? 

 

It does matter!

 

Why would I stick my neck out and lie about my true character, while pushing for the claimed Fred's lynch?? If I were mafia I would know that he is speaking the truth and that you are both Fred and George so it wouldn't make sense to sacrifice myself after you two die.

 

 

Csarmi...gotta hand it to you.  When you decide to use aTe and a tool..you go all out.  Didn't you try this same tactic in John Snows game?

 

Anyway, why did AVM state he got a town read on you due to your QT discussions and you state there hasn't been any discussion? 

 

That's why I utterly despise using AtE as a tactic. It makes for a terrible game experience. Good point about AVM though.

[csarmi]

Csarmi...gotta hand it to you.  When you decide to use aTe and a tool..you go all out.  Didn't you try this same tactic in John Snows game?

I hate to make self-meta arguments. Go ahead and read my games where I did AtE. Show me just a single one where I was anti-town.

 

Anyway, why did AVM state he got a town read on you due to your QT discussions and you state there hasn't been any discussion?

Well I don't think he got much to go on there. The little discussion we did have there was sensible and it gave me a town lean on him too. Maybe you should ask him.

[Niniel]

I´m sure that I unvoted but to be sure. Unvote. 

[_CLOUD]

I'm starting to get really tired of this back and forth. I will be back in a hour or so.

[_CLOUD]

I´m sure that I unvoted but to be sure. Unvote. 

 

Why are you unvoting?

[csarmi]

 

@Cloud - the point is that ANYONE CAN LIE ABOUT WHETHER THEY ARE CLAIMING TRUE so that's in itself gives us nothing. That was a response to the line of thought where you asked about how I could believe AVM to be town (which I never said he did) as he did NOT say it was his real claim.

 

The point is that it does NOT MATTER. Even if he did say that, we wouldn't know whether he was telling the truth.

 

GAH

 

Can you freakin stop yelling at me?? 

 

It does matter!

 

Why would I stick my neck out and lie about my true character, while pushing for the claimed Fred's lynch?? If I were mafia I would know that he is speaking the truth and that you are both Fred and George so it wouldn't make sense to sacrifice myself after you two die.

 

I'm yelling at you cause you act like you don't even read my posts or just can't read or anything. This last one is a prime example.

I never said anything resembling your bolded, nor did I hint at anything like that.

[Niniel]

I thought that we weren´t allowed to say that we had a fake claim but I was obviously wrong. 

[csarmi]

Csarmi...gotta hand it to you.  When you decide to use aTe as a tool..you go all out.  Didn't you try this same tactic in John Snows game?

I'm not using AtE as a tool anymore by the way - I learnt better. Makes for a bad game experience and I don't like that. That's why I wanted to replace out.

[Niniel]

 

I´m sure that I unvoted but to be sure. Unvote. 

 

Why are you unvoting?

 

 

I still haven´t read past page 7. I doubt I will have the time to read the whole thread today. But I will start over and see how far I get today.

[_CLOUD]

 

 

@Cloud - the point is that ANYONE CAN LIE ABOUT WHETHER THEY ARE CLAIMING TRUE so that's in itself gives us nothing. That was a response to the line of thought where you asked about how I could believe AVM to be town (which I never said he did) as he did NOT say it was his real claim.

 

The point is that it does NOT MATTER. Even if he did say that, we wouldn't know whether he was telling the truth.

 

GAH

 

Can you freakin stop yelling at me?? 

 

It does matter!

 

Why would I stick my neck out and lie about my true character, while pushing for the claimed Fred's lynch?? If I were mafia I would know that he is speaking the truth and that you are both Fred and George so it wouldn't make sense to sacrifice myself after you two die.

 

I'm yelling at you cause you act like you don't even read my posts or just can't read or anything. This last one is a prime example.

I never said anything resembling your bolded, nor did I hint at anything like that.

 

 

You can rest assured that I have read every single one of your post, and some of them multiple times. 

 

That is a question which is aimed towards you. It isn't a defense about something that you have accused me of. Please answer the question.

[_CLOUD]

Brb.

[csarmi]

 

 

 

@Cloud - the point is that ANYONE CAN LIE ABOUT WHETHER THEY ARE CLAIMING TRUE so that's in itself gives us nothing. That was a response to the line of thought where you asked about how I could believe AVM to be town (which I never said he did) as he did NOT say it was his real claim.

 

The point is that it does NOT MATTER. Even if he did say that, we wouldn't know whether he was telling the truth.

 

GAH

 

Can you freakin stop yelling at me?? 

 

It does matter!

 

Why would I stick my neck out and lie about my true character, while pushing for the claimed Fred's lynch?? If I were mafia I would know that he is speaking the truth and that you are both Fred and George so it wouldn't make sense to sacrifice myself after you two die.

 

I'm yelling at you cause you act like you don't even read my posts or just can't read or anything. This last one is a prime example.

I never said anything resembling your bolded, nor did I hint at anything like that.

 

 

You can rest assured that I have read every single one of your post, and some of them multiple times. 

 

That is a question which is aimed towards you. It isn't a defense about something that you have accused me of. Please answer the question.

 

I accused you of nothing?

[csarmi]

But to answer your question, Cloud:

 

You can be scum with Fred as fakeclaim. In that case, this would be the perfect time for you to speak up. Cause you'd have to do that, eventually. You see, when the real Fred flips you might think you're busted on any sort of organized claim.

You can be town (not Fred) with Fred as fakeclaim. You could lie for various reasons in that case. Unlikely. Yes?

You can be town (Fred) with Fred as fakeclaim. You would be telling the truth there. But that still wouldn't clear anything up. Cause AVM could be not Fred with a Fred safeclaim and still be town. Or he could be scum.

 

Hell, for all I know, there could be several more people with Fred as fakeclaim.

 

******************************************

 

This all gave me an idea however and I guess what BFG was getting at earlier.

 

Have both you and AVM state on thread that you're Fred and you're claiming exactly what you are. In that case, one of you is sure to be lying (and given what's going on, lying about that as town would be clearly anti-town).

 

Then we could check one of you (there are various methods, the easiest is by lynching, but that's not the only one) and be sure about the other one.

 

Anyone sees a fault in that reasoning?

[csarmi]

OK, heading home, I think I'm gonna review what's been going on on the last couple of pages cause it's a bit fuzzy to me. My smartphone is fixed so i can read on my way back home. Yayz.

[csarmi]

But in this case, how is the claiming situation ANY different than it would be if there were none of these weird mechanics created for the fakeclaims?

 

Everytime someone claims we have that someone confirm whether he's claiming his true character.

If two people claim the same character and both claim they are true about that, we can just lynch one to pin the other down.

 

Just as it would have been.

 

What's the difference?

[csarmi]

In fact: what if everyone shared whether their claims are true? Wouldn't that help us in the long run?

[Leelou]

So...you want everyone to mass claim? Scummy much? 

[BFG]

AVM hasn't stated directly that his is a 'true' fake claim. 

 

The problem with lynching one to confirm the other is that half the same claims will be town-town, so lynching one claim and getting town puts the other claim at 50:50 and also that we'll run out of town too quickly using that method. 

 

If AVM says that his is a 'true' fake claim then either he or Cloud are lying, atm I'm more inclined to think it would be AVM, due to the difference in your opinion of the QT, essentially AVM uses the QT to say he thinks you're Town, you say you've not really had any conversation there. 

 

Sharing claims being good for Town or not depends on what you think were done with the Power Roles for Town.

[BFG]

I do think it would be good for Town to claim if you're in danger of being lynched, as knowledge of claims could be useful later,

[Niniel]

I read the thread and I don´t know what to think. What if Csarmi only thinks that AVM is his lover? Maybe he is in fact lover with Cloud? I think that if we should lynch any of those I would pick AVM. 

 

As usual I´m a bit suspicious of Verbal who seem to be discussing things that no one else discusses. But we´ll see. Not so sure about Leelou. I really want to lynch GF for ignoring the game completely. He checks in but doesn´t comment on anything. 

 

So vote GF or AVM? 

[Leelou]

I read the thread and I don´t know what to think. What if Csarmi only thinks that AVM is his lover? Maybe he is in fact lover with Cloud? I think that if we should lynch any of those I would pick AVM. 

 

As usual I´m a bit suspicious of Verbal who seem to be discussing things that no one else discusses. But we´ll see. Not so sure about Leelou. I really want to lynch GF for ignoring the game completely. He checks in but doesn´t comment on anything. 

 

So vote GF or AVM? 

 

Then why would Salami and AVM have a QT? 

[csarmi]

So...you want everyone to mass claim? Scummy much?

What's scummy about that?

[Niniel]

I don´t know. I´m  a bit confused. Before we started I just thought it would be obvious to have Fred and George as the lovers. Town + town. But Csarmi claims to be George and Cloud claims to be Fred. I don´t think Cloud would do that as mafia. So that leads to the thought that both Cs and AVM are mafia but no one else has claimed lovers. But why would Thorum make the lovers scum + town. It doesn´t make sence theme wise. That is why I wondered if he is messing with the QT. But that would be bastard modding so I take that back. I just don´t know.