Quality Discussion Thread

[metalisticpain]

There are so many problems with the battle scenes I honestly don't know where to begin. Inane strategies, numbers off, channelers powered down or flat out non-existent. Further much of the fighting seemed like a video game where waves of bad guys are basically fodder. It turned into battle porn and huge sections of it could have been cut out without losing a single thing.

 

Cutting the battle porn would lose the chaos of Tarmon Gai'don, it would lose the desperation I read into the scenes. The soldiers unrealistically fighting for hours, and hours with no strength then rallying because it was that or die. The emphasis on the human spirit to go against all odds again and again.

 

Thats at least how I read the scenes. Maybe thats just my style. I dont bean count, I dont map out the strategies and movements on the map provided. I am looking for the pulse and feel of the conflict. I can overlook and forget about the numbers and tactics without it pulling me out of the book.

[Suttree]

In retrospect, "The Gathering Storm" proved to be the high point of this little experiment. At that point the series needed a a bit of a kick in the ass, and "Knife of Dreams" moved things along just enough to make that possible. I remember having some minor problems with TGS but I honestly can't remember it being all that bad. The cracks didn't start to show until "Towers of Midnight" (which had to wrap up just as much as the final book) and they became chasms in the first half of "A Memory of Light" and came damn close the crashing the whole series. The second half was good enough to save everything, but for awhile I was staring at the pages in horror.

Good call jj. Spot on.

[Ryrin]

In retrospect, "The Gathering Storm" proved to be the high point of this little experiment. At that point the series needed a a bit of a kick in the ass, and "Knife of Dreams" moved things along just enough to make that possible. I remember having some minor problems with TGS but I honestly can't remember it being all that bad. The cracks didn't start to show until "Towers of Midnight" (which had to wrap up just as much as the final book) and they became chasms in the first half of "A Memory of Light" and came damn close the crashing the whole series. The second half was good enough to save everything, but for awhile I was staring at the pages in horror. 

Exactly. The first half of AMoL almost made me cry for how disappointing it was.

[Balefire to da face!]

 

You're essentially arguing that Brandon should have finished in nearly half the space?

Sanderson didn't want the books split into three so obviously he thought he could have done it in less. The bloat is there, Brandon for whatever reason would not/could not use ellipsis to move the action along. Add to that all the filler in these three books and yes, RJ could certainly have done it in 1 book split into two WH size volumes.

 

 

*Rubs temples*

 

No matter how many times you say it, it doesn't make it any less ridiculous.

 

When you say two volumes the size of WH, lets be clear that is well under 500,000 words. At 238k, you are talking about a total word count not all that much bigger then The Shadow Rising by itself. A novel which is already arguably the most fluid, action packed novel in the entire series. Which makes it a pretty good control for what Jordan could do in nearly 400,000 words at his best.

 

The sheer content in TGS/ToM/aMoL dwarfs that of TSR. The amount of movement is magnitudes greater. And perhaps most daunting of all is that not only are there probably twice as many big story arcs to deal with, the amount of side arcs that Brandon HAD to address had virtually no parallell in The Shadow Rising.

 

To be fair, The Shadow Rising is 100,000 words, or about 20%, shorter. I don't really think that makes up for it, though.

 

The Shadow Rising has three main arcs.

 

- Rand/Mat/Moi/Egwene in the Waste

 

- Elayne/Nyn in Tanchico

 

- Perrin in the Two Rivers.

 

The Brandon trilogy has....

 

- Mat from Altara to the Tower of G

 

- Rand's descent and VoG

 

- Egwene's unification of the Tower, purging of the Black Ajah, and Seanchan attack.

 

- Perrin's acceptance of leadership, forging of Mah-Hammer, and misc(

 

- Buddha Rand to the sealing

 

- The four Generals fail, Mat picks up the baton

 

And I think that's being extremely generous as far as that last one goes. Since that itself could easily count as 2 or 3 more major arcs(with the Kandori theater being a major one, as well as the bundling everything that happened with the Seanchan up into it). I am more then happy to grant that Perrin's small part in TGS and poor use in aMoL can be combined with his awesomeness in ToM as one arc.

 

The only ones I think you could complain about are my splitting up of Rand's two main arcs, and counting Mat from Altara to Tower of G as their own major arcs. But I argue that the two arcs of Rand are huge by themselves and deserve to be seen as such. And that seperating Mat's arcs is more then fair considering I am already throwing so much into the second one!

 

So by my count, we've got at least twice as many major arcs in the Brandon trilogy are TSR. At the absolute barest minimum you could merge the Rand and Mat arcs and still have 4 vs. 3. But that's not really fair, considering that if you look at the two, my partitions of arcs from the Brandon trilogy are all at least as meaty as any of the three from TSR, if not more so

 

Of course, that's not really where things look worst for your assertion. It really breaks down when you consider the amount that actually happens in the books. And also the amount of side arcs touched upon.

 

The first is a good gauge of what Jordan and Brandon could do with roughly the same raw material. The second a good gauge of just how stacked the deck was against Brandon.

 

Put simply, in one of his most acclaimed books, which casual fans and hardcore fans alike generally rank 1st or 2nd, and very few ever rate out of the top 3 Jordan took FOUR HUNDRED PAGES just to get out of the Stone of Tear. There were some big scenes in there, no doubt. Like the Finns, the Bubble of Evil, and what not. But I went to do a detailed break down of what it looked like.....and believe me, there wasn't much substance.

 

The "Prologue" of The Shadow Rising(I've always thought it was strange TSR is the only book that doesn't have a Prologue) is Min showing up at the Tower, tipping Elaida, and telling Suian about the coming violence.

 

Dain entering the Two Rivers.

 

And Suroth monologuing.

 

For 50 pages.

 

And this was BEFORE the Prologues "got out of control"

 

It's well crafted. It's captivating. It's the best book in the series(imho). But it's still nearly 400,000 pages of much, much less substantively happening than in the Brandon trilogy.

 

 

Alright, lets just do the bare minimum and see what Jordan is going to do in 1,200 pages when he can barely get our heroes out of the Stone in 400......

 

 

- Move Mat from Altara to the Tower of Genji with a scene for Verin to do her thing and also move them to Camlyn to get the Band in place there.

 

- Have Cadsuane spank Semi, leading to Semi chaing Rand. True Power. Cuenny Rand, etc.

 

- Get Egwene to her dinner meeting with Elaida. This is a big one here, because after the sheer amount of pages that 7-11 smothered us with over the Tower/Rebel story it is hard to fathom how Jordan even comes close to resolving it as succinctly as Brandon.

 

- Get Gawyn out of his rut and into the rebel camp.

 

- Get Rodel out of Arad Doman and into the Borderlands.

 

- Get Avi to Rhuidean.

 

- Rand's descent requiring some time to simmer.

 

- The first meeting of Dark Rand an Tuon.

 

- Rand's attack on Natrim's Barrow

 

- The Seanchan attack on the White Tower.

 

- Verin's meeting with Egwene.

 

- Veins of Gold.

 

- Perrin fights Slayer.

 

- Perrin/Whitecloak arc

 

- Perrin/Egwene TAR arc

 

- Avi's trip in the way forward machine

 

- Mat goes in and rescues Moi.

 

- Rand saves Maradon

 

- Mat sets up Dragons

 

- Mat gets the gholum

 

- Bloodknives fun

 

- Perrin makes Mah-Hammer

 

- Assorted Elayne jackassery that I simply refuse to believe Brandon would have done unless the outline, and thuse Jordan himself, were planning on doing it.

 

- Logain and company retake the Black Tower

 

- The Field of Merrilor/Dragon's Peace

 

- The four different battlefronts.

 

- Setting up Mat as overall commander

 

- Rand's second meeting with Tuon.

 

- Rand vs. DO

 

- Demandred arc.

 

Average those out over 1,200 pages....and each one would get about the amount of space as Min arriving at the Tower, Dain taking a Ferry, and Suroth monologuing. Personally, I think most, if not all, of them deserve more then that.

 

There is a lot of stuff in there that I left out.

 

The need for various background and build for the Prologues with assorted Forsaken scenes. The need for in depth Aes Sedai scenes to untangle the mess from 7-11. The need for quite a few of those stories to simmer to get their desired effect.

 

I just don't see how you get TSR+20% out of that. If you count each book in the Brandon trilogy as roughly equal in raw content(which I wouldn't say aMoL is, but not terribly far off) I don't see how you fit the entirety of what happened in The Gathering Storm into a space the size of Jordan not even getting them out of the Stone.

 

Even ignoring Jordan's verbose style. I don't see how you claim that the books could or should have been done in that amount of space.

 

If you're working with 1,200 pages, how much does the Tower reunification get?

 

How much does Dark Rand get?

 

How much does Perrin Slayer, dreamspike, White cloaks get?

 

How much does Genji get?

 

How much time does the Dragon's Peace get? How much time do you set up the four captains so that Mat can slide in?

 

How much time do you give The Last Battle when he does?

 

How much time do you give Rand vs. DO?

 

How much time do you give the Black Tower fix?

 

How much does the amazing Rhudiean trip get?

 

How about all the pieces that need to fall into place?

 

 

 

So yeah, I still find your faith in Jordan baffling. It borders on blind worship if you truly believe he could have finished the series in under 500,000 words.

[Suttree]

A ton of wasted typing there. To claim I of all people who has been constantly up front about RJs skills and have not put him on a pedestal in the slightest, has "blind worship" is patently absurd. Further don't call me out as the one thinking it. People are in almost universal agreement on this point. If space was at such a premium how so you account for the appalling amount of bloat and filler? Jordan could be very concise when needed and when focused such as TSR the pace and use of space could easily have done what we are all suggesting. This book fell so far short of what is going on with other authors In fantasy right now it is depressing. You can continue to live a fantasy world if you want but again Brandon didn't want the split and agrees it could have been shorter. Sure you know better though.

 

Also I find it very disingenuous the way you try and lowball space with your guesstimate. 1 book two volumes easily...even if they both needed to be slightly longer than WH, but that of course is entirely beside the point. You have to be willfully ignorant to claim Brandon manages space wisely in these last three books. It is honestly laughable that you think more the majority of those things listed were properly handled and the correct length. Bottom line you scoffed at the assertion RJ could have done it I less. Than you moved the goalposts focusing in on a very specific number. Splitting hairs in that man we doesn't help your side, and doesn't take away from the overall point being made.

[jjstraka34]

I'm not sure what to make of that long post, but I want to copyright the term "assorted Elayne jackassery" and put it on a t-shirt or something....

[Balefire to da face!]

 

 

 

Also it is hilarious that you would throw a back handed insult at RJ's AS names given the D&D style absurdity of naming in AMoL.

 

 

I don't have a problem with the names. I can see where a couple of Brandon's name's grate. Though like most things, it's blown out of proportion to a great degree and quite funny when derided Brandon names like Hessalem and Fortuona turn out to be Jordan's.

 

I was more poking fun at the fact that the concise Jordan turned books 7-11 into something of an extended game of "lets see how many Aes Sedai names you can possibly frickin remember!

 

Bottom line RJ was very concise when he needed to be, where we are in the story arc accounts for the increased pace as much as anything(it's not as if it's some huge skill of Brandon's) and it's insulting that you are seeming to suggest RJ would need another author to step in and finish the "mess" you are claiming things had become. KoD showed he knew where he was going. End of.

 

 

I don't think I suggested Jordan needed another author to come in and finish the series. Others in the thread have said it, but I didn't say it and I am not suggesting it.

 

I like a lot of what Brandon has done with the series, but I am not blind to the problems. In fact, after the glaring mistakes and problems with aMoL, I can say without a doubt that if I had my choice, I would take Jordan over Brandon. The good stuff of TGS and ToM somewhat balance their timeline and tone issues. But whatever the hell happened with aMoL, I would have rather had it in the hands of Jordan.

 

But lets be clear. Who I want, or who I even think would have been best to finish the series is a separate argument from the length. None of it changes the fact that it's ridiculous to think Jordan could have finished in less pages then Brandon. Much less an absurd number like 480,000 words.

[jjstraka34]

Let's say we cut out 300 pages of the initial 4 front battle in AMoL (which I think most of us can agree is f'n pointless). Substitute in some actual substance at Merrilor and with Tuon and Rand. Give Moiraine something to do. Not have characters make world-altering decisions faster than I make menu choices in a drive-through. All this would have helped tremendously.

[jjstraka34]

We wouldn't be so critical if the books didn't mean alot to us. I started reading this series when I was 10 years old. It's been with me through every up and down in my life. I'm more than entitled to have an opinion about it.

[Venaliter]

 

Overall - a trainwreck of a book in my opinion; probably the worst one in the entire series for many reasons.  But despite the problems, it's a train wreck that still manages to deliver for me.  I put the book down deeply satisifed and thoroughly glad that we got an ending.

Well said.

[jjstraka34]

I agree, well said....

[Bluedust9]

The book didn't live up to my two decades of anticipation. Therefore, instead of critically think, I call this book a bust. It didn't conform to my 2 decade old expectations, so [removed] it. 1/5 stars if that.

[Joanna63]

We wouldn't be so critical if the books didn't mean alot to us. I started reading this series when I was 10 years old. It's been with me through every up and down in my life. I'm more than entitled to have an opinion about it.

 

And I think that we are all grateful for Brandon finishing the series, it was brave of him to take on such a task. Sure, there are things we hoped would be elaborated on and things we hoped would be resolved in this book, so it's a bit disappointing that they werent resolved - I mean, we've been reading this series for years/decades and waiting excitedly for the next instalment of the story, especially this one. I'm not really sure how I feel about the book its self yet, I felt exhausted reading it and it wasnt what I hoped, however Im not sure what that would have looked like either :) Need to do a reread.

[Bluedust9]

 

We wouldn't be so critical if the books didn't mean alot to us. I started reading this series when I was 10 years old. It's been with me through every up and down in my life. I'm more than entitled to have an opinion about it.

 

And I think that we are all grateful for Brandon finishing the series, it was brave of him to take on such a task. Sure, there are things we hoped would be elaborated on and things we hoped would be resolved in this book, so it's a bit disappointing that they werent resolved - I mean, we've been reading this series for years/decades and waiting excitedly for the next instalment of the story, especially this one. I'm not really sure how I feel about the book its self yet, I felt exhausted reading it and it wasnt what I hoped, however Im not sure what that would have looked like either :)

 

He shouldn't have done it. Burn the notes, I'd rather have no ending than an ending I didn't like. I matter more than anyone so what the hell, why didn't I get everything I wanted? 1/5 like I said is generous.

[Balefire to da face!]

A ton of wasted typing there. To claim I of all people who has been constantly up front about RJs skills and have not put him on a pedestal in the slightest, has "blind worship" is patently absurd. Further don't call me out as the one thinking it. People are in almost universal agreement on this point. If space was at such a premium how so you account for the appalling amount of bloat and filler? Jordan could be very concise when needed and when focused such as TSR the pace and use of space could easily have done what we are all suggesting. This book fell so far short of what is going on with other authors In fantasy right now it is depressing. You can continue to live a fantasy world if you want but again Brandon didn't want the split and agrees it could have been shorter. Sure you know better though.

 

Also I find it very disingenuous the way you try and lowball space with your guesstimate. 1 book two volumes easily...even if they both needed to be slightly longer than WH, but that of course is entirely beside the point. You have to be willfully ignorant to claim Brandon manages space wisely in these last three books. It is honestly laughable that you think more the majority of those things listed were properly handled and the correct length. Bottom line you scoffed at the assertion RJ could have done it I less. Than you moved the goalposts focusing in on a very specific number. Splitting hairs in that man we doesn't help your side, and doesn't take away from the overall point being made.

 

 

Sinces splitting the paragraphs doesn't seem to be working for me, I'll number them.....

 

1. I don't see much bloat, no. I covered some of it in my original post. I am halfway into TGS and the only bumps I've seen are Gawyn. Which, as I said, I don't think is Brandon's fault and doubt highly Jordan could have resolved any quicker considering that Jordan didn't get around to it himself for the 7 books that Gawyn was hanging from Elaida's nuts for absolutely no good reason other then apparently he likes having angry, channeling man haters for bosses. And Hinderstap, which I will repeat again that I agree Brandon endulged himself too much in. But also say that some page count was required to set him up for ToM.

 

What bloat am I supposed to see? The scenes where Avi puzzles over the Wise Ones test? The interrogation of Semi? The interaction of Suian and Bryne?

 

No. Just no. I do not accept those as bloat. I do not accept quality character growth for characters we care about as bloat in a series where we have endured so many PoV from so many useless characters.

 

 

 

2. Wait...it was your goalpost! If you don't want to to laugh at 500k, then don't give me a figure of 500k.

 

Look, you can claim that I am drawing unfair comparisons. But the fact is all you are doing is blindly asserting things. All you have said is that Jordan could have finished the series in half the word count as Brandon because "he could be concise when he wanted to be".

 

Well boy howdy. Pardon me, or anyone else who's read a Jordan dress description, who doesn't take your word for it.

 

We'll never know for sure what might have been. That's life. But comparing these things is a much better way of speculating then simply asserting "Jordan could be concise".

 

Were all of my bullet points worth 50 pages whoever wrote them? No some of them were just to point out that THINGS needed to happen, even if relatively small. You only need to reach so many payoffs and climaxes per 100 pages before you realize the sheer volume of stuff that needed to happen needed more then 1,200 pages to contain it all.

 

As far as I am concerned, it's a bad argument that Jordan could have finished in the same space as Brandon. It is an absurd argument that he could have finished in half. I don't think anyone could, and Jordan was verbose even when he was being concise!

 

Tell me, if you think so many of the things I listed didn't deserve space.....compare what happened in KoD's to it. That seems to be your personal benchmark of what Jordan could do when he set his mind to it. 315,000 words of pure forward momentum, right? Over 3/5ths of the length that you think the entirety of the Brandon trilogy could have been.

 

Here, I'll get you started....

 

Perrin rescued his damn wife.

 

Elayne got the damn throne.

 

 

Now fill that in with about about 10 more events from KoD that are on the level of Rand's descent, unifying the Tower, Perrin's Slayer/Whitecloak/TAR battle arc, Mat's Genji arc. Mats Seanchan/Merrilor arc. The four generals arc. Rand vs. DO,  the Black Tower arc. and feel free to throw in some smaller stuff like gholum, Seanchan attack, Avi's trip to Rhudean, Gawyn arc, and so on.

[Bluedust9]

My problem is the book didn't address things in the way I wanted, so it's really pretty bad.

[jjstraka34]

Pretty thick sarcasm, and for the record I thought the ending was just fine, and I'm not even particularly upset at any unresolved plotlines. My main issue is some of the stylistic choices that got us to that point, and it's hard to deny that the first part of this book had some severe flaws.

[Joanna63]

 

 

We wouldn't be so critical if the books didn't mean alot to us. I started reading this series when I was 10 years old. It's been with me through every up and down in my life. I'm more than entitled to have an opinion about it.

 

And I think that we are all grateful for Brandon finishing the series, it was brave of him to take on such a task. Sure, there are things we hoped would be elaborated on and things we hoped would be resolved in this book, so it's a bit disappointing that they werent resolved - I mean, we've been reading this series for years/decades and waiting excitedly for the next instalment of the story, especially this one. I'm not really sure how I feel about the book its self yet, I felt exhausted reading it and it wasnt what I hoped, however Im not sure what that would have looked like either :)

 

He shouldn't have done it. Burn the notes, I'd rather have no ending than an ending I didn't like. I matter more than anyone so what the hell, why didn't I get everything I wanted? 1/5 like I said is generous.

 

:) lol

[Bluedust9]

 

 

 

We wouldn't be so critical if the books didn't mean alot to us. I started reading this series when I was 10 years old. It's been with me through every up and down in my life. I'm more than entitled to have an opinion about it.

 

And I think that we are all grateful for Brandon finishing the series, it was brave of him to take on such a task. Sure, there are things we hoped would be elaborated on and things we hoped would be resolved in this book, so it's a bit disappointing that they werent resolved - I mean, we've been reading this series for years/decades and waiting excitedly for the next instalment of the story, especially this one. I'm not really sure how I feel about the book its self yet, I felt exhausted reading it and it wasnt what I hoped, however Im not sure what that would have looked like either :)

 

He shouldn't have done it. Burn the notes, I'd rather have no ending than an ending I didn't like. I matter more than anyone so what the hell, why didn't I get everything I wanted? 1/5 like I said is generous.

 

:) lol

Annie you are too sane for this site, either become like me and he who comes with the bong and laugh it off, or else you'll become a crazy person. :( Fantasy books are fantasy!

[Suttree]

Balefire go back and read how it happened. You said "For those who actually claim Jordan could have finished in less pages then Brandon......I still think that is one of the most asinine things I have ever seen obviously intelligent people ever utter." I was throwing out 1 book two volumes as a suggestion and didn't meant to latch on to any hard word count. You then focused on the "WH" part and moved the goal posts from your original statement. The point being Jordan stated he could do it in much less, Brandon didn't want the books split, and now that it is finished we can clearly see the structural problems do to the split. 

 

Far from just saying Jordan could be "concise" I have already giving numerous examples over the last three days. I have talked about Jordan's strong use of ellipsis, something that Brandon seemed unable to do. It actually fits perfectly in-line with his seeming inability to trust the reader and "tell don't show style". It could have and should have been much shorter. The books would have been far stronger for it.

 

Also I'm not sure you get the difference between filler and bloat.

[Balefire to da face!]

Pretty thick sarcasm, and for the record I thought the ending was just fine, and I'm not even particularly upset at any unresolved plotlines. My main issue is some of the stylistic choices that got us to that point, and it's hard to deny that the first part of this book had some severe flaws.

 

I actually liked the beginning of the book. I thought the Black Tower arc started alright, and I loved the Dragon Peace scenes despite what others have said.

 

I thought it came off the rails when it tipped the captain complusion scheme too early and then kept hinting way too long. And I got just plain bored when it turned into a Trolloc snuff film. Much like the curse of easily accessible internet porn, I fear aMoL may have rendered me unable to get excited over a Trolloc fight ever again.

 

I also have some big problems other do. Moiraine played not much of a role. Abrupt, just so, plot wrap ups like Alanna, Min, and Faile.

 

But upon reflection, I just feel a sense that Brandon got bogged down in the details of the battle, and just didn't have fun writing "the good stuff.

 

I didn't have a problem with the way Hurin and Bashere died. I thought that added to the story at the time. But it seems to me, if you build up this amazing world......why not have fun tearing it down?

 

I thought it would have been cool to have a few detached scenes were much smaller Trolloc raiding parties hit places like the Two Rivers, Tear, etc. Not only would it have been fun, and a great way to give a nod to some characters, it would have helped the fact that a three front war was borderline tame for the war to end all wars.

 

I can think of countless little ways that things could have been improved. We never got a Dobraine PoV, did we? Why not a quick PoV where he dies bravely in battle with the thought of keeping his oath to the very end. It would have been a nice nod to so many who wondered at such a strange character.....an honorable Cairihan who kept his oath!

 

We never got to see a PoV from a snapping Warder, have we? Wouldn't that have been a perfect way to send out Bryne instead of just on his shield? Have him musing on everything he's lost. Morgrase, Camlyn, his command....but determined to do what he can. *Snap* And charging Trollocs.

 

As I said in my original post. There were many of these characters that I think could have made the book feel more complete with extremely small amounts of space And if we were going to get sooooo much battle. I think it could have been better battle

[Razumikhin]

Quality is a tricky one for me, since I don't really care for either Jordan or Sanderson as writers, though I certainly love the story that Jordan developed. But I did want to comment on the 'could Jordan have done it quicker' thing.

 

One difficulty I'd imagine Sanderson faced is that it is far harder for him to cut something from RJ's notes than for Jordan himself to do it. For Sanderson to do so is to explicitly go against the record of Jordan's wishes, and we'd have no way of knowing if Jordan would have changed those wishes in the writing. This could easily lead to a longer novel, since Sanderson would not only have to include everything, but might also feel forced to add even more scenes to link things together.

[Venaliter]

My problem is the book didn't address things in the way I wanted, so it's really pretty bad.

I'd say the book addresses things that didn't make sense...Fain, The Horn of Valere, Black Tower, Moraine...Just awful writing.

[Bluedust9]

 

My problem is the book didn't address things in the way I wanted, so it's really pretty bad.

I'd say the book addresses things that didn't make sense...Fain, The Horn of Valere, Black Tower, Moraine...Just awful writing.

 

Whoa dude. I agree with Fain. But Olver and the Horn is one of the greatest things I've ever read.

[Balefire to da face!]

Balefire go back and read how it happened. You said "For those who actually claim Jordan could have finished in less pages then Brandon......I still think that is one of the most asinine things I have ever seen obviously intelligent people ever utter." I was throwing out 1 book two volumes as a suggestion and didn't meant to latch on to any hard word count. You then focused on the "WH" part and moved the goal posts from your original statement. The point being Jordan stated he could do it in much less, Brandon didn't want the books split, and now that it is finished we can clearly see the structural problems do to the split. 

 

Not really.

 

Considering that the beginning of my post, that was addressed to someone else, that YOU THEN QUOTED, was the about the "basically half the space"

 

You chose to quote the part specifically about the "basically half" in your original post instead of my latter part which you are quoting now.

 

You then went on to say in, put simply, that you thought the trilogy could have been done by RJ in half the words.

 

I am not changing the goal post at all.

 

I was talking to someone else entirely, you quoted me, and set your own goal post. It really doesn't matter what I said, you're the one that picked it up and ran with it.