Month of the Greats: What Constitutes Greatness (Discussion)

[Gudrean]

wonderful examples Cindy!!! yes a truly enlightening experience I'm sure, I too have longed to just take off into a mountain range and never look back, to be free of all confines and have no strings...I would settle, however with living off the grid with my family in a nice valley with a stream and a lake and some forests and mountains to climb. To grow all our own food and make everything we need....a farm would be nice for me too =) okay rambling off topic again!!  

 

I too struggle with hate. I know it's wrong to hate and I want to love everyone and everything but alas I can't seem to stop hating things, even if it's just for a bit and then I'm back to my loving self, but I AM a work in progress.

[WildTaltos]

It is not inherntly wrong to hate - but I gues that is just diference in ideaolgies, esepcily those taht somehow atach metaphysicl qualities to animal emotiins.

[Gudrean]

In my paradigm animals, humans, and life in all the kingdoms are equal in every way. All life is sacred. Emotions are what feed either the ego or the soul, and hate feeds the ego and love feeds the soul. 

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

I'm not sure any emotion can be deemed right or wrong in itself, and hatred has certainly led to some great acts.

 

for me, though... following a natural inclination, acting on the impulse of hate, or on any impulse... is not greatness of spirit.

 

I think that lies in struggling against internal as well as external demons, not allowing oneself to take the path of least resistance. like st Augustine, who struggled with his demons and sought salvation but not today. his greatness was in that struggle even more than in his "salvation." my demons don't even have to tempt me, all they need to do is look in my direction and I will act to appease them, just to avoid the inner conflict. I don't even try to wrestle with them most of the time, I preemptively feed them to get them to be quiet. not greatness. very not.

 

but more than that... hate, though easy to find... and natural for most of us... is a destructive force even when used for good. it destroys us from within. and we can't hate if we truly recognize our kinship with every other creature on earth. unless we hate ourselves, which is probably the most destructive, and least great, thing we can do.

 

I do that, so I get it, and I fail every day to empathize with other humans enough to love them. and I often hate, if briefly. no greatness there, maybe not wrong, but... not great.

 

someone who lives on this planet, and sees the same things I do, and still loves and does not hate, who can find after a lifetime of ... this... something positive in every person, every event... has found something of greatness. IMO.

[Gudrean]

Very well put Cindy, I LOVE your honesty and insight.

[WildTaltos]

The ego is al-importnt in my religon, thuogh perhaps paradoxicaly at tiems subjgated to the will of the gruop, but generaly makin such a concesion is seen to enhance yuor honour and therfore reward the ego - so proably why hate is thn not seen as a repulsive thing, becuse it may be useed to serve the sellf, thuogh it comes with caution becuse there is recognitin it can muddle the thuoghts, as any powerful emotin, and hence maek the person act in an interst that ultimately didn't enhancce their honour or serve their purposes. Some of uor greatst heros in legend an myth acted in hate and achived great thinngs thereby with litle to no cost to thmselves, as exibited by the slaughtres that are gloriously recounted, whther of gods or men, in the texts. I am alwys very confusd then with outsidre claims that hate is self-destrctive - it can be, but so cn any othre excesive emotion when continusly generated, even intens happines if it reinforcs you to abus in harmful pleasuers constanly. I know vry hateful peple who do not seem to hate themslves, and only a fw of thm have evrre come to harm, and onl becuse they let their hate blind thir reason and did soemthin serious that made thm vulnerble to severe reprimnd by others. Recognisin genetic origins I do nit see as relatin to hate at all - rage is a natural emotin among highre animals, a way to reacct to perceivd enmies, whiel hate is merly a sustaind form of anger particulur to humans, who haev the mental capcity to continue viewin a certainn object, evn when removed, with anger becuse it ofends their physicl or mental aspects - a thret to them, evn if it is but a fantsy and it not truly a threat, but percption, even if wronng, oftn becoems reality in an animal whos main asset an preocuption is its complex mind, such as in humanns.

[Gudrean]

Do you want to talk about someone you find to be of great honor as a substitute to great soul then? I am fine with that, but I would like to keep our focus on people that are "Greats" 

[AesSedaiGuy]

Great Spirit/Soul ... For me Malcolm X had a great spirit/soul. I "get" Malcolm X on a very deep level. What he wanted for himself, for his people, for his country for the world was unappreciated and because of his personal journey, often misunderstood or overlooked.

 

I also think the Dalai Lama is a great spirit/soul.

 

Jane Addams and Cornel West are also great souls that resonate with me.

[AesSedaiGuy]

On a personal level, someone I have met who is a person of Great Spirit or Great Soul is The Wild Taltos.

 

While he may be misunderstood at times and underappreciated, to me he has always exhibited a greatness of soul. Not only is he able to endure hardships and lifelong challenges; but he has taught himself an amazing amount of knowledge and information. Finally, he is an amazing soul because of the purity with which he sees the world and people. He sees the world and people with a degree of honesty and open heart that is astounding. His approach may not always be the most inviting, but his objective and rational are usually water-tight and usually exhibit a degree of naive purity, awe and genuineness that is rare, raw and unrefined. I'm partial, I know. But I also know him, I know. :)

[WildTaltos]

thankk you fionnchathán

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

very nicely put, ASG.

[Senexx]

All of us

 

All of us that face adversity and continue on

 

All of us that face adversity and continue on and with luck overcome those burdens.

[Wren of the Brown]

Resilience is nice.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

I get knocked down, but I get up again?

 

nah. I wallow and wait for...

 

no.

 

no greatness here.

[Gudrean]

Cindy, just because you have a refreshing honesty about who and what you are does not mean you have no greatness. There are a lot of people who have faults that they either do not see or will not own, so a person who truly knows them self and all their strengths and weaknesses and is able to openly share them with others is in a sense great  for allowing others to see the perfect imperfection that is human nature. In a sense you are helping others to be more real and to stand in front of that mirror and truly reflect. 

 

I'll not speak for others here, but in the short time since I have been reading your posts, you have gone from someone I knew little to nothing about and I assumed you were a bit negative, to someone who has taught me a lot about myself and about human nature. Your greatness comes in a form that is easily overlooked and misunderstood, but one that is so very needed, especially in these times when people are so worried about what others will think or say that they are rarely "real" about who they really are and what they truly feel about a situation or person. So I say Thank you, Thank you Cindy for being you and for being my teacher. You ARE appreciated and you are an important part of DM!!!

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

thank you, that's very kind of you to say, and I appreciate it.

 

I won't argue though I could.

[Gudrean]

LOL

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

[Senexx]

see the perfect imperfection that is human nature

 

 

Wow you do get it!

 

When I say to be perfect is to have flaws, others argue that's the definition of imperfection and it is - but that's not my idea of perfect.

 

I wish I had better words to explain this.

[Wren of the Brown]

I'm reading your meaning of "perfect" to be closer to "blessing" or maybe even something like "astounding blemish." Sure, the blemish is unsightly when viewed in it's own negative light but, when taken as part of a larger whole, you can't help but be amazed that here is this amazing experience and, regardless of whatever else we might say about it, the article would be woefully incomplete without the blemish. In the same way that freckles are skin blemishes that have come to be equivalent to innocence, our individual flaws make us great, not because they are there to torment us but that we have it in us to overcome them - what is gained in triumph is worth far more than what would naturally be present. A perfect world is worth far less than a world of adversity because there is no opportunity for triumph. It's pre-ordained greatness, and because it is the average, commonplace experience, what was great or ideal in perfection is merely... Mediocre.

 

Or maybe I'm bloviating out of my nutmeg trap.

[Gudrean]

Thx Senn  

 

I'm feeling it Hiarth 

[WildTaltos]

why evn talk abuot perfectin or imperction if there is no suchh thng as a perfct type of personality except in hummn and socil imagianton, an ideal taht the particilur society hs workd uot as waht evryone shuold conform to but in relity it almos nevre exists? waht im understnding as imperfction as people aer using are jus diffrences betwen peoplle that soemtimes (or lot of tiem) makes thm do soemthing that was harmfull to oneself or deviaets them from stndards of social beauty - whiel I can undrstand the physicl aspect bein called an imperfction, becuse most popeple can hold in common taht a hueg wart or a bustd nose isnt the most atractive thng in the world, such thngs taht may unconsciusly render as bad genes or disease evn if it was not causd by anythng genetic or patholgical, moral and intelectul paragons come in all shaeps and sizes acros cultuers, ther canot be one definitte perfct type even if ther aer soem common traitts betwen the ideal of a clustre of cultures, so I tennd to aviod perfect and imprefect when talkng abuot differnces derived from the socail psychoogy becuse there is no standdard "perfect" taht everyoen can relate to and moerover the variouus perfect standrds generally doesnt have basiss in reality (unles yuor religous or cultural persuasin is to belive so, but I wont go into that).

[Gudrean]

oops wrong thread

[Gudrean]

Okay for the last week of the thread I would like to go into the darker side of greatness! So let's discuss all those "great" and powerful, extreme and grandiose!!!

[Gudrean]

well it's the last couple days, does no one have a darker side to greatness they would like to discuss?