[Advanced] The Dresden Files Mafia - Game Over - Ed loses, Verbal wins

John McClane · April 6, 2013

The Bob character seems pretty closely aligned to Harry. There is that bit about there having been an Evil Bob, as I mentioned above, so it's possible Bob was a character up for grabs like a recruitable symp. I dunno.

Susan was literally a reporter, but it looks like she turns vampire and Harry has to kill her at some point.

I think it's more likely that there are 1-2 scum teams, or a scum team + a SK. All those killing roles being on the anti-town side, plus having a non-town roleblocker, and suddenly it doesn't seem so unbalanced to have a cop, watcher and 2 reporters all aligned to town. I mean, as we've seen with the reporters, they aren't purely a pro-town role. We lynched Ishy because we doubted his results, we are doubting one of either Booboo or Ed. So it's not an in ordinate amount of bolstered strength for town, because of the natural wifom that is generated by the reporters. Plus, they out power roles. LOL

John Snow did a good job with these reporter characters, they could go either way based on limited knowledge of them and what I can find on wiki.

Can someone weigh in... is a Denarian the same as a vampire? Like, who are Harry's primary adversaries in the books?

Susan Rodriguez

Species: Vampire (Red Court, deceased)

Occupation: Former reporter for The Arcane, Dresden's ex-girlfriend, agent for the Fellowship of Saint Giles

Susan was a reporter who covered supernatural events for The Midwestern Arcane tabloid newspaper. She began soliciting Harry for information on wizards and odd occurrences in Chicago. The two began a romantic relationship in Fool Moon that unofficially ended when Susan was bitten by Bianca in the third book Grave Peril. Susan was a half-vampire (and remained so until she fed on a human (see "Changes"), with enhanced strength, speed, recovery abilities, and narcotic saliva (a Red Court vampire's self-titled 'Kiss').

Harry had been having trouble saying "I love you" to Susan, and only blurted it out when she went into vampiric bloodlust. Susan recovered somewhat after hearing that. She was captured by Bianca and used as a hostage, but was rescued by Harry. She leaves Chicago, and is asked by Harry to marry him. She refuses due to the dangers of her half-vampiric nature, although she still loves him.

She joined the Fellowship of St. Giles, an organization for those who have been harmed by vampires, who carved a magical binding/tattoo into her skin. The binding warns her by changing colors when she reaches the limits of her control. Harry and Susan officially parted ways after the events of Death Masks. As of White Night, Susan is still in South America working against the Red Court as a member of the Fellowship. Lara Raith is astonished that Harry's true love for her is still active enough to make him toxic to White Court vampires.

Susan returns in Changes, surprising Harry with the news that they have a daughter, Maggie.^[1] She kept Maggie's existence a secret from Harry and placed her with a foster family in order to protect her and give her a chance at a normal life. Maggie, now eight years old, has been kidnapped by the Red Court to be sacrificed in a powerful blood curse that will kill every living member of her bloodline, including Ebenezar McCoy (Harry's grandfather). As the ritual is about to begin, Susan's colleague Martin apparently reveals himself as a traitor to the Order and causes her to lose control of her vampiric nature, part of his secret plan to strike at the Red Court. Harry tricks her into giving in to her blood lust, and she kills Martin and becomes a full Red Court vampire. He then kills her on the sacrificial altar, triggering the blood curse against the Red Court and wiping out the entire group. The Leanansidhe promises to treat Susan's body with respect and honor, and to take Harry to her burial site whenever he wishes.

Susan is only present in one episode of the television series adaptation of the books, the episode "Storm Front." She is portrayed by Rebecca McFarland and is somewhat different from the Susan of the novels. She is blonde, rather than Hispanic in appearance, and is a reporter for a mainstream publication. She is shocked to discover magic and demons are real, rather than trying to uncover their existence as part of her job.

"Bob"

Species: Air elemental (spirit of intellect)

Bob is an air spirit of intellect who resides in a human skull owned by Harry. Before him, Bob was owned by Justin DuMorne, and before DuMorne, a powerful necromancer by the name of Heinrich Kemmler. According to Jim Butcher, "Etienne the Enchanter picked it (Bob's skull) up on the cheap, back in medieval France, and skulls weren't exactly uncommon. Etienne himself probably had it for the reason that so many writers and sages had skulls hanging around--to make their office look cooler. Etienne, though, is the one who originally laid out the enchantment on the skull to enable it to be a little home-away-from-home for Bob, and he's been passed down, wizard-to-wizard, ever since."

Bob is a massive repository of magical knowledge, in to which he allows Harry to tap between wisecracks and attempts to be allowed out of his skull. Because of Harry's inability to use modern electronic information storage devices and his limited helpful contacts with supernatural knowledge, Bob is an invaluable asset to Harry. At some point he had gained the disfavor of Queen Mab, an event he constantly refers to when dragged into the Nevernever. Part of his personality and memory inherited from Kemmler (mostly dealing with necromancy) has been locked away to keep Bob benign. In Ghost Story, Bob reveals that he amputated the portion of himself that contained memories from Kemmler, resulting in the creation of a blue skull shaped creature dubbed Evil Bob. Harry apparently gave him the name Bob, the only name that the spirit has had.

According to Luccio, in Small Favor, it is stated that Bob was a "Mini-Archive," but the wardens had destroyed him, when Kemmler was destroyed. In actuality, DuMorne—a Warden at the time, but already at least planning to turn traitor—did not destroy Bob and took the skull into his possession, whence it then passed to Harry after the two dueled. While Harry did not seem to know how dangerous the White Council considered Bob, he has not revealed his possession of the air spirit to many people, and then only out of absolute necessity without going into detail what he is.

Bob's personality seems to change depending on who has possession of his physical skull. With Harry he is somewhat lazy, wise-cracking, and more than a little lecherous. When allowed to remember being kept by Kemmler, he became out-right murderous and spiteful, nearly killing Harry but for limitations Bob begged Harry to make before ordering him to remember. When stolen by a necromancer, Bob became largely cold and business-like, simply giving information as needed, but returning to his personality under Dresden upon being dropped. Changes in his personality are accompanied by a change in his eye color, such as being orange when owned by Dresden but red when remembering Kemmler, or blue when he was in the hands of a necromancer. Moreover, when wounded (probably by colliding with a ward) his eyes turned purple.

Bob has said he has no real gender per se as he has no corporeal form and is an air spirit. In response to this, Harry asked why he acts like a perverted old man, enjoying trashy romance novels, pornographic magazines and the like. Bob replied that women are so graceful and beautiful as to be on an entirely different plane from men (before Harry sarcastically adds "And they have boobies", which Bob gleefully echoes).

When allowed out of his skull, Bob is susceptible to attack and will be harmed by sunlight. He can also possess living beings, often riding within Harry's cat, Mister, as both a protection from daylight and to be less obvious than an orange cloud of lights.

In Ghost Story, Bob is in the care of Waldo Butters; the two first met in Dead Beat. However, his eye color and personality have remained more or less unchanged from his time with Harry. Butters uses Bob's light to be able to see Harry's spirit. Harry later enters the skull and perceives Bob's "home" as a fully loaded bachelor pad with a gigantic television, a high-tech stereo system, and a huge collection of video game consoles. During this scene, Bob is given a human form which Harry describes as resembling James Dean.

In the TV adaptation, Bob is the ghost of a damned warlock, rather than a spirit of intellect, and appears in human form, played by Terrence Mann. For details of this character, see Bob (Dresden Files).

John McClane · April 6, 2013

Only character I can't account for on wiki is Anna Ash, AVM's character. She does show up in other searches though. Is she so minor of a character that she'd be a named used as a safe-reveal for viewed scum?

John Snow · April 6, 2013

Ape, I said no major spoilers. Edit and remove posts 1250-1251

John McClane · April 6, 2013

Ape, I said no major spoilers. Edit and remove posts 1250-1251

Whu?

I don't know what you mean by no major spoilers, I'm doing research on the theme - and sharing my findings so that they can be discussed. I think it's very viable and consider you asking me to take proof points off the table a form of bastard modding.

Can I hide/show them? Or leave the part that I bolded?

I'm not a fan of this... at least I'm effing playing for eff sake.

John Snow · April 6, 2013

Copying and pasting entire wiki entries has spoilers, and some people on DM still may read the series. At the very least put them in spoiler tags.

John Snow · April 6, 2013

And, research as it may be, it would be like me telling you that

Harry Dies

in Harry Potter. It's really not cool to the people who haven't finished the series yet.

John Snow · April 6, 2013

Also, to keep the game spoiler free, I'm using the characters pretty much as you meet them. So all that really matters is probably the 1st paragraph or so. And I definitely won't use something that is a significant change that happens later on.

John McClane · April 6, 2013

Also, to keep the game spoiler free, I'm using the characters pretty much as you meet them. So all that really matters is probably the 1st paragraph or so. And I definitely won't use something that is a significant change that happens later on.

Updated my posts, thank you for that clarification.

So it seems Susan 'as you meet her' is a reporter. Bob 'as you meet him' is Harry's, and the history of him having belonged to a bad guy is back-filled throughout the books?

John McClane · April 6, 2013

I'm sure this is a mod induced PR due to his behavior earlier.

Good guess. Is that a common practice here?

I had a spontaneous post restriction on D1 too, I had to compliment someone in every post...

Nolder · April 6, 2013

I can't help you with any of those questions. I don't know anything about the show. I don't know what kind of weapon he would use or how good he is.
It's a book series not a show.

Dresden files is a show too.

Oh...huh I guess it is. My bad. Didn't know it got turned into a show.

Sorry Tina.

John McClane · April 6, 2013

I can't help you with any of those questions. I don't know anything about the show. I don't know what kind of weapon he would use or how good he is.
It's a book series not a show.

Dresden files is a show too.

Oh...huh I guess it is. My bad. Didn't know it got turned into a show.

Sorry Tina.

Nolderp. Help me figure this out will ya?

peacesells · April 6, 2013

UNVOTE.

Ape has convinced me. And..I think he understands this could be a numbers game at this point.

Nolder · April 6, 2013

What are we trying to figure out?

ed2funy · April 6, 2013

I´m going to have a kids free days with my bf so I won´t be here today. Will be back tomorrow morning.

Go get him, girl.

:laugh:

Whoa. Peace, what's with the major 180?

peacesells · April 6, 2013

Cause he gets it even though he doesn't want to admit it. It's a numbers game. I'm willing to wait one more day for him to realize it. As long as we lynch from the pool of players I described earlier I'm happy.

John McClane · April 7, 2013

Cause he gets it even though he doesn't want to admit it. It's a numbers game. I'm willing to wait one more day for him to realize it. As long as we lynch from the pool of players I described earlier I'm happy.

Spoken like a pansy who didn't get his way.

I can appreciate that you think you've got it figured out, honestly. However, there are still too many unresolved variables to show my hand and assume it can't unravel. Mafia is always a numbers game, so you aren't actually making a point by repeating that over and over. You are stating the obvious.

I won't show my hand until I can guarantee victory for the town. I cannot do that right now, no matter how hard you sell "the numbers game" because your position is short-sighted and doesn't consider potential mechanics that may exist that would create an opening for scum to turn this around. I won't risk that until I know it won't matter.

You can make a move on someone else whenever you want... who in your pool do you feel has the best case against them? Why not put some of your energy into influencing the scum hunt rather than pushing this crap on me?

peacesells · April 7, 2013

Tglems and Lenlo are my biggest suspects.

Tglems looking for easy pickings and lenlo for doing nothing all game. Lynch either of those 2 and I'm happy.

John McClane · April 7, 2013

Official Vote Count:

Tina(1): Kat

Ed(2): leelou, AVM

Len(2): Ed

~~Ape(1): Peace~~

Peace(3): Ape, TGlems, Hybrid

Boo(1): Nol

Kat(2): Tina, Boo

Not Voting: Turin, Lenlo, Verbal, AVM, Rand, Peace

Sorry guys..was at work

UNVOTE.

Ape has convinced me. And..I think he understands this could be a numbers game at this point.

The above reflects what is current, or at least it should.

D1 Final Vote Count:

Nol(1): Ishy

Ishy(2): Len

Crusher/Rand(1): Darthe

Csarmi(11): Hybrid, Ape, BooBoo, AVM, ed, peace, dap, nol, leelou, tina, verbal

AVM(1): TGlems

Not voting:

Darthe, ~~Song~~/Turin, Vambram, Kat, ~~Crusher/~~Rand, Csarmi

D2 Final Vote Count:

Boo(2): Peace, Verb

Ishy(8): Leelou, Nol, Hybrid, Tina, Rand, Vam, Ishy, Kat, Ape

Vam(1): AVM

Ed(1): Boo

Not voting:

TGlems, ~~Song~~/Turin, Lenlo, Ed

John McClane · April 7, 2013

Tglems and Lenlo are my biggest suspects.

Tglems looking for easy pickings and lenlo for doing nothing all game. Lynch either of those 2 and I'm happy.

Edited to add quote from pee smells!!!

I filled in the above based on assuming that Ed and Booboo are both town, and all of their results are legit.

Notable observations:

Lenlo was 1/4 people not voting csarmi on D1. Darthe and Ishy were both town, Lenlo and TGlems both not voting Ishy. Lenlo was camped out on Ishy. On D2, when Ishy was being run up. Lenlo avoided that train. Right now, Lenlo has had plenty to say, but has avoided being on a train. Lenlo was also one of the first to balk at my bluff on having a guilty on Tina. Like I said earlier, it's possible scum was so geeked up that they knew I was full of shit that they failed to recognize how it would look calling my bluff, rather than following it.

TGlems was voting AVM who played a scummy enough D1 to warrant being viewed by myself and by Booboo. TGlems wasn't on anyone by the end of D2, I'd have to revisit who he was voting before that lynch. Today he's been extremely logical, and is currently voting Peace, after Peace made a run at the uncountered cop.

Of the two I would vote Lenlo before TGlems.

On D2, when people moved off of Booboo and onto Ishy, there was a pause in Ishy's train at which point AVM and I started pushing a train on Vambram, who was scum as we now know. As he and I pushed Vambram, we saw Tina, Rand and Vam make a hard push back to Ishy. I want to re-read those posts exactly, but the one that really rings scummy to me is the one from Rand. I'm telling you, it is a sign of scum getting greedy when they vote a train on a townie and talk more about lynching the leader of that train (in this case me) than they do about why they are voting that townie they just voted for. It is a subconscious error for scum, one that I've made and caught many scum on. They know a townie is about to be lynched, and they almost never can ignore the opportunity to line up suspicion on the poor schmuck townie that is leading the lynch.

Of the 3 people that re-ignited the Ishy train on D2 (Tina, Rand, and Vam) I would vote both Rand before Tina. I also want to re-read Kat and Hybrid from that stretch.

Turin is an immediate threat, having done nothing in the game. So far he said he'd catch up and post, and hasn't. Gotta give him a chance.

I notice now, in a pivotal time, that Rand and Lenlo are staying off trains. Surely waiting to see where things go. I like a vote on either of them.

I'm also growing weary of Nolder. I thought since about Page 2 of the game he was cratering on me to "hide in plain sight" as we call it as a power role. At this point, I don't know what to make of his play. It seems to ignore things we know about the game, like his case on Booboo. That said, I've seen Nolder insist he's got someone pegged as scum despite all facts saying otherwise. The other thing here is that Booboo is scum, and Nolder's making a clear-cut distancing move... just in case Booboo is the lynch. It also allows Nolder to stay off the grid. Part of my suspicion of this is that on D2, when I voted Booboo, Nolder goaded me in to voting Ishy. I've seen Nolder go far out of his way to save a scummate before. So on D2 he didn't want me to vote Booboo when all we knew was that Booboo was playing scummy, but today despite Booboo now being an uncoutered "Bob" character, Nolder insists on voting Booboo for scummy play. Seems highly contradictory. Random reason to vote Nolder is that he brought up a symp on like the 3rd page of the game, and tried to set a fake trap on me, perhaps to remove me from the game early because historically I read him well as scum. Not so much this game though, lol.

Rand, Lenlo and Nolder would make good lynches right now. I'd also vote Turin just to remove the variable that Song never once contributed. I don't want to have to deal with that at endgame.

Unvote

Vote Nolder

I think if Nolder flips scum, we have our answer on Booboo.

I think during night we vote for who Tina should shoot, and who Ed, Booboo and I view. If Nolder flips scum, we can have Tina shoot Booboo immediately.

IF Tina doesn't play ball, we end her immediately tomorrow, remove the non-townie that she will have exposed herself as, share our investigative results and then forge ahead with a lynch on Verbal (who was doing a little bit of wink-wink, nod-nod with Booboo earlier in the game). We may have to revisit AVM too. I'm very concerned with his character being so far out on the fringe of relevancy in these books, sounds like a potential safe-reveal for scum. AVM played D1 like he wanted to be viewed, it sure worked on drawing me in. He could be a Godfather, especially in a game where scum would need a counter-balance for 2-3 investigative roles.

John McClane · April 7, 2013

Tglems and Lenlo are my biggest suspects.

Tglems looking for easy pickings and lenlo for doing nothing all game. Lynch either of those 2 and I'm happy.

By the way, investigation proof roles and safe-reveals for scum are why I don't simply agree that this is a "numbers game" that we can wrap up by tomorrow. You argued with me with the passion of a dead-wrong townie, and expressed the bitterness of being shut down like one. I've been on that side plenty of times, I know what it sounds like.

I don't think scum would have stuck their neck out this far on such an easily de-bunked theory. I may be wrong, but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt for today.

Tyler Glembo · April 7, 2013

Peace gets some pressure and backs off voting the cop, backs off getting the cop to reveal who he investigated, backs off trying to get the town PRs to come out.

Peace, you are trying to explain why you changed your vote, but what about everything else?

peacesells · April 7, 2013

I've explained my position Tglems. You have your vote on me. Good enough. Move on.

John McClane · April 7, 2013

Peace gets some pressure and backs off voting the cop, backs off getting the cop to reveal who he investigated, backs off trying to get the town PRs to come out.

Peace, you are trying to explain why you changed your vote, but what about everything else?

^^^ committing to a position, regardless of how it'll make him look if wrong.

I've explained my position Tglems. You have your vote on me. Good enough. Move on.

^^^ evasive

This is what concerns me, peace, you've driven hard at illogical points, but left yourself and out, and have subsequently back-pedalled each time when you couldn't get traction. I'm not sure I'm bought into that being town play.

TGlems is pushing what he believes in, he's not very concerned with "selling" it, he's more "pointing it out and frustrated others don't see it the way he does". That's how I get as town when I think I've got scum in my crosshairs.

You've been floating theories and seeing what kind of push-back and/or traction you get. And, as I said, back-pedalling. I don't often do that as town, but I do it all the time as scum though.

And here you are STILL not casing anyone else. You fit right into my description of Rand and Lenlo above, but you've just stayed out in full view while basically seeing where this day goes, or where you can push it.

peacesells · April 7, 2013

John, I've had no influence on anyone this game.

I believe it's a numbers game. I thought you were being scummy and not even accepting it as a strong possibility so I pressured you. You've convinced me that it's not because you are scum that you aren't accepting it. You are just being willful imo.

Tglems. I STILL THINK ITS A NUMBERS GAME!! THAT'S MY POSITION.

Vote people in that pool..you'll find 4 scum. I'm in that pool of players too..btw.

Nolder · April 7, 2013

I'll respond to your case in depth tomorrow if I have time Ape but before I go to bed I'd just like to point out that you're doing exactly what I do when I get convinced I have scum.

You're looking at the game and finding evidence to fit your theory rather than looking at the evidence and seeing where it points.

As you were happy to point out to me yesterday just because you pushed Ishy down on your list didn't mean you were counting him out or delaying his lynch.

Likewise just because I wanted to lynch Ishy first doesn't mean I was protecting Jif. And now you're putting me in a lose-lose scenario where if I'm not voting him it's because we're scummates and if I am voting him it's distancing. Kinda lame but whatever.

All I can do now is vote who I think is scum and hope for the best.

[Advanced] The Dresden Files Mafia - Game Over - Ed loses, Verbal wins

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