Comparing Dune and WoT

[DragonSpawn]

Well I read both series and one thing that stabbed me in the eye was the amazing similarities between the two in the bases of character buildup and storyline. Especially in the beginning of the WoT series.

 

 

1) Paul Atreides is the prodigy of millenia's gene breeding projects, unknown even to the ones running it. He has the ability to see through the past and see the memories of all his ancestors, and even the memories of his future children. He can look into the past, present and future at the same time. Normally only certain women, Bene Gesserit, a witch order that lives on a secluded planet possess such ability (but only to see their females they are related to in the past). The Bene Gesserit are infamous for interfering in Imperial politics much like the Aes Sedai. Even the character make up is the same; arrogant, haughty, have a longer lifespan, often have a contempt for men.

 

2) The Aiel vs Fremen.

 

As you guys might know the Aiel history I will write down the Fremen history;

 

In the times of the old empire during the total war with Omnius during the Butlerian Jihad they were slaves. They fled to Arrakis during an uprising, meeting there some fellow runaway slaves. Out of the meek slaves, became the most feared and best troops in the Imperium. Due to the harsh desert climate and hard ways of life.

It is the Fremen which bring Paul Atreides from a castaway outlaw Duke to become the future Emperor. They claim him their Messiah.

 

Anyone else seeing the similarity? Meek slaves, become the best warriors in the current existence of the times. Both decry the main character as their Messiah. Both build the core of the main characters military forces. Both hold the key to the deeper understanding of the characters self (Paul through drinking the holy water from the sietch deep in the desert and so can see into himself, Rand by going to Rhuidean deep in the desert so he can see his past and himself).

 

 

The characters of Rand and Paul also seem similar. The only major difference I can find, both of their personalities exhibit similar thoughts and weaknesses. Is that Paul is treated with more respect, while with Rand any woman is free to slap him without fear of retribution.

 

 

 

 

Did anyone else notice any similarities I overlooked?

 

Also as a side note, did anyone else read the full Dune series?

 

Also as another side question, are there any more character construct aspects of Dune you would like to see implicated into WoT? Such as a gene breeding programme started to bring out the strongest channeler, or other such constructs?

[Cybertrolloc]

Careful, Herbert didn't hide his liberal agenda as carefully as Jordan does (especially the rambling bits in God Emperor) ;) I'm also sure that others here have read Dune (it usually makes the top X lists here), just as I'm sure others also think the prequel books are garbage and many unspeakable things should happen to Kevin Anderson and Herbert's son for inflicting them on us.

 

(Paul through drinking the holy water from the sietch deep in the desert and so can see into himself, Rand by going to Rhuidean deep in the desert so he can see his past and himself).

It's more prosaic than that in Dune, check out how Jessica manipulates the Fremen when she and Paul first meet them (all that Missionaria Protectiva stuff).

 

Generally I find homages ok, I might find something else decent to read after all. Especially because the two series deal with a lot of similar themes, there's going to be some correspondence. But the story of Dune is wrapped around the political commentary (spice = petroleum in case you missed it), which is something Jordan doesn't have to deal with in writing a pure story and having an objective evil (Rand as messiah isn't the same as Paul as messiah). So put me down for there being similar thematic elements, but not much in the way of direct parallels.

[SinisterDeath]

I find Wot and Dune to be much closer then WoT and Lotr comparisions.... I read part of the first Dune book... seen both movies mind you.... I had to do a 'book report' a few years ago, but didn't have anywhere near enough time to finish the book so I had to read some scrib notes to do the report.... Anyways Im still meaninig to pick it up and finish it....

[DragonSpawn]

I find Wot and Dune to be much closer then WoT and Lotr comparisions.... I read part of the first Dune book... seen both movies mind you.... I had to do a 'book report' a few years ago' date=' but didn't have anywhere near enough time to finish the book so I had to read some scrib notes to do the report.... Anyways Im still meaninig to pick it up and finish it....[/quote']

 

I agree. WoT seems a shade closer to Dune then Lotr.

 

Going a bit offtopic, but to explain a bit more about Dune. It is insightful and in some people's eyes a bit critical of religion (in particular religious institutions).

 

One of the themes of the book, is that religion to some degree is the strongest weapon. Paul fit the prophecies of the indigenous peoples perfectly. Also it leaves some things open to interpretation which I like. It is never stated whether Paul himself in the end actually believed himself to be the Messiah, or merely used the status bequeathed on him for his manipulation.

In the first book, dependence on one natural resource for the functioning of soceity is also criticized. The Spice, being the replacement to petroleum. It is a substance found on only one planet, but it is what gives the power for instant travelling, increasing someone's lifespan, and increasing someone's powers of perception (i.e increasing the thought processes).

Also once one is addicted one has to keep taking it, even in minimal amounts or one dies of a painfull spice withdrawal. Since the whole space travel was dependent on it, all Bene Gesserit addicted to spice (needed to enhance their powers), and most nobility as well, Paul through controlling it and threatening to cull soceity of it forced the Emperor's abdication and his own ascent.

 

 

But most interestingly I find in the next book Dune Messiah, Paul starts doubting on the bloody path he has initiated, also after an assassination attempt he loses both eyes but is still able to see. He becomes the blind man who can still see (remember he is prescient, he can see the future, the past and the present; so he sees each footstep he does before it actually happens). Out of a complex set of reasons, that are too long to write down Paul abdicates and leaves the throne to his two twin children with his sister Alia as regent until they come of age.

Since he was too weak to follow the path that was chosen to him by his prescience, his son was forced to take the role his father should have done. Bringing humanity to the greatest war, Dune's version of the last battle. So that the remnant of the remnants of humanity, spread so far into the outmost reaches of multiple galaxies so as that it is never possible to destroy the human race, or enslave them to one substance like spice again. Leto the god emperor through his enforced peace ensured that humanity kept reproducing and increasing in gigantic size, and with his death and the end of his 3000 year reign turmoil broke out and the great war began until all had fled into another galaxy, gone into hiding, been killed or fought successfully for their survival.

 

One of the reasons I like WoT is because it borrowed some of Dune's philosophy. Philosophy and observations are Dune's strongpoints, it doesn't go into such great detail as WoT, and from Herberts original 7 books it spans roughly over a 10,000 year period, meaning that although one character keeps reappearing in all novels, the rest stick mainly to one, maximum 2 books.

[KwizatsHaderach]

Yep!

I see the similarities as well.

The Aes Sedai mirror BOTH the Bene Geserit and the

Honored Matres. Also note that the Aes Sedai are terrified of a Male Aes Sedia and want to control him. The Bene Geserit were looking for (Kwizatz Haderach ) A male bene geserit that they could control.

 

Yes the Aeil are similar to the Fremen - there's also a word usage that's close. The fremen called the worms Sha'hulud (Later on Shaitan - for the tyrant) the word Shai'tan appears in Jordan's work as an evil creature as well.

 

Also the game played in the royal city nearly mirrors Frank Herberts "Wheels within wheels".

 

Any other similarities that you see ?