Flying with the Power

[vegetattack15]

Pretty simple idea. You get two channelers, they each lift each other with air and move together, any other ideas?

[Gentled Ben]

You could try using cables of Air to attach to objects and swing or pull yourself on them, like Tarzan or Spiderman. I guess you could wrap Air around you so that you "attach" it to yourself, and make wings or helicpter rotors out of it or something, too. Maybe that requires too much dexterity and/or concentration in the weaving, or perhaps it would simply be too exahausting to maintain. There's probably a way, as it's been shown that Aes Sedai don't know everything, but we would have no way of knowing if, through our speculation, we had found a way to do it.

[SBoydW]

yeah not. It's not possible vegg. Even it your theory could work.. they may go 5 feet? it's not feasable.

[Guest Wynne Jessal]

yeah not. It's not possible vegg. Even it your theory could work.. they may go 5 feet? it's not feasable.

 

Not saying I agree or disagree' date=' but if you're going to flat out say something isn't feasible, you should provide some reasoning behind your statement.

 

I think there [i']would[/i] be limits to how high you could lift a person, and probably how far, depending on your strength as a Channeler. If the ratio of how long you can hold a person up with Air and how far horizontally you can move them is in relation to how high you could lift them vertically, it would probably not be worthwhile. Maybe you could fly from one side of town to another... Egwene could only lift the two Atha'an Miere about 20-30 feet (?) about the river before she maxed out.

 

Besides, why would you need to fly if you could Travel?

[Thor]

I'm still holding on to my energy conversion argument.

[Gentled Ben]

That sounds interesting. Is there already a thread for it?

[vegetattack15]

not possible? sounds like what Nyn heard before she healed stilling. Sounds like what Rand would have been told(of course Im assuming this part) if he told people his plan of healing Saidin. Just a thought. By the way I like the harness of air idea. Harness each other with air and perpetuate movement. Im no physics major by any stretch but I like the possibilities.

[SBoydW]

Think about the amount of energy that is required to lift a person. When Nynave, Rand and all them were in Far Madding, and Nynave had to lift Rand and Lan into that building where they got ambushed by Fain, That act of lifting them consumed almost all of the power she had stored in her little power well. So I know that Nynave has more power than what was in that power well, but the fact is, is that it consumes a lot of energy to lift another person, then to sustain that lifting power, and then to move the other person in a way that could be considered flying.... it's ridiculous. NOT FEASABLE, especially since travellinf ahs been re-discovered. Yes maybe someone could "fly" with your theory but not far enough to call it flying.

[SBoydW]

Not saying I agree or disagree, but if you're going to flat out say something isn't feasible, you should provide some reasoning behind your statement.

 

This had already been deeply disscused on another thread.. I didn't feel like having to type it all again. Guess I should have known better. :|

[RobertAlexWillis]

Not to mention that two people can't lift each other for the same reason you and I can't grab arms and lift each other up. Try it. Get a friend, you grab his arms, he grabs your arms, and lift. Did you go anywhere?

 

One person, or a group of people, can lift another person/people, with enough of the Power. But its more levitation than flying. And two people could not lift each other.

 

Just my opinion.

[bhthomas88]

you could always wrap them in a bubbule of air and catapult them.anyways i thought age of legends people couldnt fly either so they made the flying car things,but they also said you cant be healed from stilling either so who knows

 

in another note since you cant lift yourself with the power for very long can you pull your self.like get in a wagon and use a weave of air instead of horses and just pull your self along

[RobertAlexWillis]

Just to settle all the strange new concoctions we're going to get:

 

Is there probably a way to create some sort of construct with the Power that will allow you to fly? Probably, yes. Is as simple as "Up, up, and away" ? No. Is it worth the amount of Power and risk it would take? No. So for all intents and purposes, there is no practical was to fly with the Power.

[Thor]

I still feel it is possible, just that RJ doesn't want to boher with it.

 

Superman converts solar energy into his own potential energy which he can use to fly and do other stuff. Why can't channelers also store energy and fly?

[vegetattack15]

Im not saying its more efficient than Traveling, just that there must be a way to do it. Also don't you all think a birds eye view of a battlefield would be a huge advantage?

 

How about this, create an wings made of air and attach the weave to your back. Is it possible do you thing to tie it off with regular movements? I.E. the beat of the wings.

[SBoydW]

I still feel it is possible, just that RJ doesn't want to boher with it.

 

There is. In the Age of legends there were such things as Sho'Wings(sp?). But since that was the age of legends nobody currently in the books would know what that is or know how to build/operate it if they did.

 

So it is possible, just not gonna happen in the books.

[Gaul]

I still feel it is possible

 

 

Yea it is like what SB posted... they had that wing thing plus there was a phrase from TDR moiraine saying"Atleast he didn't rediscover how to fly or become invisable from the Age of Legends" or something like that. I think its either after the skirmash at his camp or after he balefired

[Thor]

I don't think showings are actually flying, they seem more like planes or some hovercars to me.

 

When we say flying, we mean like superman or neo flying.

[RobertAlexWillis]

How about this, create an wings made of air and attach the weave to your back. Is it possible do you thing to tie it off with regular movements? I.E. the beat of the wings.

 

Any flight that depends on beating wings would rip a human apart. Thats why birds have chest muscles that are so huge in relation to the rest of their bodies.

 

The most energy efficient way we;ve been able to discover to "fly" is using the method used in airplanes (shaped wings create pressure differences a high speed that create lift under the wings). The amount of energy needed to make a frame like that, and provide it with sufficient thrust, would force even Rand to use at least an angreal. Its simply not practial.

 

Are there situations in which flying is better than Travelling? Yes, like the one mentioned about having an overhead view of a battlefield. But is it worth the amount of Power it would take, when there are other options available? No. It is possible, but not practical.

 

When we say flying, we mean like superman or neo flying.

 

In that case, I feel perfectly comfortable saying no, you cannot do that with the Power.

 

Superman converts solar energy into his own potential energy which he can use to fly and do other stuff. Why can't channelers also store energy and fly?

 

Because Superman is even less realistic than channeling. If a human body (and channelers are human) stored that much energy, it would explode. Human skin doesn't have enough surface tension to contain that kind of pressure.

[Thor]

Who says the human body will explode? And you don't need to store that much to be able to fly anyways.

 

I bet it's takes less energy to fly than to explode for excess energy.

 

(yes, I know Ashaman make people explode all the time, but they are actually using air/earth/fire to blow people up, not stuffing energy into the victim.)

[RobertAlexWillis]

Who says the human body will explode?

 

Physics.

Reality.

Lots of things.

 

And you don't need to store that much to be able to fly anyways.

 

Huh? Where did you get THAT notion? Flight require large amounts of energy, relative to the human body's storage capacity. Enough force to accelerate your body mass "up" at more than 9.8 m/s2

 

I bet it's takes less energy to fly than to explode for excess energy.

 

Thats completely irrelevant. Releasing energy to explode people is totally different from storing it and releasing it in a controlled manner to let them fly. And besides, you're wrong anyway. An explosion that will completely destroy a human body will only throw it a couple hundred feet in the air at most. Thats hardly "Up, up, and away".

 

Containing energy sufficient to lift a human body cannot be done by the human body itself. The "Superman" theory takes into account the fact that Superman's body can withstand pressures much greater than a normal human's (if they bothered to think it out that much). Rand (or any other channeler) can't get shot in the chest and have it bounce off, or punch holes through steel with his fists. The human body is not meant to "contain" or "store" that kind of energy. Plus, how are they going to release it?

[Thor]

Energy doesn't need to be stored all at once, accumulation = input - output.

 

So long as you keep releasing the stored energy, you won't explode. So long as you keep taking in energy, you can keep flying. This can be done by actively channeling.

[vegetattack15]

RobertAlexWillis:

You posted earlier something to the effect of grab a friend have them grab you and lift, did you go anywhere?

 

I don't really think that's an appropriate analogy for channeling. Sense when can Egwene Physically grab someone and lift them ten-fifteen feet over her head. Which brings me back to my original post. Ok so the further a person gets, the more difficult it is to maintain your hold on them, right. So, if you lift each other with air, and stay close you should be able to achieve tandem flying, even if your not controlling your own movements. Of course, this would require a certain level of trust. Small because if you drop your partner, obviously your taking a ride, too.

 

Maybe im just confused with the physics aspect, some of you guys who post in here have super intelligent theories I would never think of or understand completely on stuff I can't even remember happening in the books, though I have read the entire series 10 plus times. I just don't understand what the problem with lifting each other with air would be.

[SBoydW]

So, if you lift each other with air, and stay close you should be able to achieve tandem flying

 

Yes, Maybe you could get each other into the air. but then move the other person and them move you would require so much energy you just wouldn't go very far. And then add the fact that most Aes Sedai/Asha'man could lift a person and sustain it much longer than a few seconds anyway.

 

Sense when can Egwene Physically grab someone and lift them ten-fifteen feet over her head.

 

Egwene is much stronger than your typical Aes Sedai, same with Rand and the Asha'man.

 

I just don't understand what the problem with lifting each other with air would be.

 

I don't think there neccesarily is problem with that, just that it wouldn't last long enough to be called flying.

 

[SBoydW]

Energy doesn't need to be stored all at once

 

Let's say you need "X" amount of energy to propell your self into the air and then sustain flight. If you don't draw "X" amount of energy to begin with then when you release what energy you did draw you would go up and then just fall, if you go up at all.

 

The problem is that if you draw "X" amount of Energy boom.

 

This can be done by actively channeling

 

Correct me if I'm wrong. But I think that you're trying to call Energy and The Power the same thing. Meaning you use the One Power as your energy soucre to fly.

 

That's not how it works. Drawing the Power uses your energy. Human bodies just can't sustain it. And if most Aes Sedai/Asha'man tried to draw enough of the power at once to propell themselves into the air it would either a)kill them or b)burn them out. Then they definatley aren't going anywhere.

 

So people let's just sitck with Traveling. Flying is impractical for the charecters in the books.

[Thor]

If One Power is not energy then what is it? Anything that exist is energy, in one form or another.

 

And also, you only need a small amount to take off and accelerate, after you reach a certain speed, you don't need more energy to maintain a constant speed. So it is perfectly possible though I don't see anyone in randland figuring it out in one book.

 

And as I said times and again already, Travelling leaves a massive residue that can be easily tracked, flying won't be trackable.

 

I don't recall anyone opening a gateway with inverted weave, correct me if I forgot and tell me where to reread.