Prologue Through to the End of the Epilogue--Full Book Discussion.

[Luckers]

They can if they want to, or not, as they choose, in as little or as great a detail as they care to. This board exists for them, after all. Those without the book are simply guests, and ones who should be cautious about how demanding they get for information.

[MattTaz]

 

can people who have actually read the book respond to this thread now?

 

If ever there is a thread to do it in, this is it!  :)

sorry mate, just wanted to know what you meant by Perrin being mind-raped? And Logain almost being physically raped. Sounds a bit heavy for WoT

[Terez]

*

[sfinbar]

Perrin mind raping: probably means someone(thing?) subverting him to their will in the world of dreams . . . or a roofie.

 

Probably not the second one.

[dfchang]

 

 

can people who have actually read the book respond to this thread now?

 

If ever there is a thread to do it in, this is it!  :)

sorry mate, just wanted to know what you meant by Perrin being mind-raped? And Logain almost being physically raped. Sounds a bit heavy for WoT

Sorry I was being a bit graphic there.

 

Perrin was the victim of Compulsion by Lanfear.   And Logain was almost Turned by Taim with the 13x13 ring.  Later he tries to go up against Demandred and basically gets his ass handed back to him, barely escaping with his life.

 

Hope that clarifies.

[dfchang]

An interesting one: 

 

Rand at the end can't channel saidin or the True Power (obviously) to light his pipe.

 

So he THINKS his pipe on fire and it happens.   Obviously I'm missing something but how the heck is he able to do that?  This is in the real world by the way as far as we can tell.

[Terez]

deus ex machina

[dfchang]

May I ask if it made sense with everything else that was going on and if it was otherwise done well?

 

I've always absolutely hated the body-swap theory and so I'm hoping that it will be written in a manner that will make it at least acceptable to me. :c

 

Well . . . not whole lot of details go in to this in this book at least.  The groundwork has presumably been set in earlier novels with the link established between Moridin and Rand when they crossed streams of balefire.  Also the increasingly obvious bond between them, etc.   Then the prophecy of a "fake" husk from Min's viewing.

 

All of this suggested to me pretty strongly that some sort of "body swap" had to be the answer. 

 

Also intuitively and from a common sense point of view, it must be so.  Rand has lost a hand, branded twice, tattooed, wound in side, etc, etc.  It would be a lot "cleaner" to give him a new body as part of his "rebirth" when he lives again so to speak.

 

HOW this is done is unknown except that Alivia helped with the process.  How she would know to do this, I don't understand personally.

 

Both Rand and Moridin's bodies are alive when they stumble out of Shayol Ghul but as they try to save Rand, Rand's body gets weaker and weaker and Moridin's body stronger and stronger.

 

There's a lot that just doesn't make sense here.

 

No one is going to notice that Moridin's body is gone the next day? 

 

Moiraine our resident Karaethon Cycle expert who is quoting that smack line for line at the Fields of Merrilor earlier ISN'T going to remember the part of the prophecy of him living and dying twice?

 

It's a cute ending for Rand but it seems a little simple that he could just get away with that.  I guess I'd always subscribed to the body swap theory but wanted a little more detail and also a little more cleverness in how that particular heist was pulled off.

[MattTaz]

 

 

 

can people who have actually read the book respond to this thread now?

 

If ever there is a thread to do it in, this is it!  :)

sorry mate, just wanted to know what you meant by Perrin being mind-raped? And Logain almost being physically raped. Sounds a bit heavy for WoT

Sorry I was being a bit graphic there.

 

Perrin was the victim of Compulsion by Lanfear.   And Logain was almost Turned by Taim with the 13x13 ring.  Later he tries to go up against Demandred and basically gets his ass handed back to him, barely escaping with his life.

 

Hope that clarifies.

cheers mate thanks, geez old demandred sounds a badarse :)

That Rand ending sounds very cool as well

[Terez]

 

May I ask if it made sense with everything else that was going on and if it was otherwise done well?

 

I've always absolutely hated the body-swap theory and so I'm hoping that it will be written in a manner that will make it at least acceptable to me. :c

 

Well . . . not whole lot of details go in to this in this book at least.  The groundwork has presumably been set in earlier novels with the link established between Moridin and Rand when they crossed streams of balefire.  Also the increasingly obvious bond between them, etc.   Then the prophecy of a "fake" husk from Min's viewing.

 

Min never had a viewing of a fake husk, and we don't know what caused the bond between them. Brandon discouraged the assumption that it was the stream-crossing.

[Ithaca]

Haha, I may have worded that question poorly. I wasn't really asking in a sense of 'is there evidence to back it up?' - I've known about the theory for quite a while and much of the evidence behind it makes sense, much as I didn't want it to happen - but more in a sense of 'was it suitably epic?'

 

It sounds a bit confusing and not particularly clear, from what I'm hearing on this thread, so I'm not sure how happy I'll be with that ending - guess I'll find out for myself on January 8th, though. c:

 

Thanks for the information,

[azrael.1289]

Thanks dfchang for answering the questions.

 

So, basically Rand survives in Moridin's body and rides off into the sunset with only Min, Avi and Elayne being the wiser and everyone else thinking he is dead? Dunno what to think about it.

[dfchang]

 

 

May I ask if it made sense with everything else that was going on and if it was otherwise done well?

 

I've always absolutely hated the body-swap theory and so I'm hoping that it will be written in a manner that will make it at least acceptable to me. :c

 

Well . . . not whole lot of details go in to this in this book at least.  The groundwork has presumably been set in earlier novels with the link established between Moridin and Rand when they crossed streams of balefire.  Also the increasingly obvious bond between them, etc.   Then the prophecy of a "fake" husk from Min's viewing.

 

Min never had a viewing of a fake husk, and we don't know what caused the bond between them. Brandon discouraged the assumption that it was the stream-crossing.

I stand corrected.  I was confused, it was actually Egwene's dream from ACoS:

 

• Logain, laughing, steps over something onto a black stone. It looks like Rand's body, but when she touches his face it breaks like paper puppet.

Coupled with Min's viewing that Alivia would "help Rand die" in Winter's Heart as well as another of her viewings in ACoS:

 

• Rand - "I saw you and another man. I couldn't make out either face, but I knew one was you. You touched, and seemed to merge into one another, and....one of you dies, and one doesn't."

I become strongly convinced that some sort of body swap was probably in order.

 

Didn't know about Brandon Sanderson's info, that's good to know as well.  It does raise the question if the streams crossing wasn't the cause why then the increasing similarities that was underscored again and again from tGS onward?

 

I mean, we didn't really even SEE Alivia do anything, is there any foreshadowing at all about her KNOWING this type of stuff?  Isn't this kind of hard to do other than the Dark One transmigrating souls? 

 

Everybody acts like it's not that big of a deal but shouldn't it be?  Was that one of the questions Rand asked in the realms of the Aelfinn?  Did Min figure this out along with how to use Callandor as a trap?

[dfchang]

Thanks dfchang for answering the questions.

 

So, basically Rand survives in Moridin's body and rides off into the sunset with only Min, Avi and Elayne being the wiser and everyone else thinking he is dead? Dunno what to think about it.

Don't get me wrong, this book will knock your socks off.  Thematically and emotionally you will be VERY satisfied.

 

The rest are all these annoying little details that uber geek/nerd fans tend to ask.

 

Cadsuane sees him and figures it out immediately.

 

Nynaeve is suspicious as hell.

 

The Wonder Girls know of course because of the bond . . . but they do a rather horrible job of covering it up in my opinion.  All 3 of them display no emotional signs at all, no overt signs of grief or pain which raises the eyebrows of even relative strangers like those in attendance at Rand's final funeral byre.  You would think ANY Aes Sedai not to mention someone as sharp as Moiraine would be immensely suspicious that NO SIGN of a broken bond manifests in the three.

 

Should I mention by the way that Rand has a saa in his eye in the fixed shape of a Dragon's Fang?  Ummm . . . good luck getting room and board for chopping some firewood with THAT there.  LoL WTF?? 

[Terez]

Don't get me wrong, this book will knock your socks off.  Thematically and emotionally you will be VERY satisfied.

 

I wasn't, for several reasons.

[dfchang]

deus ex machina

 

But surely you're not satisfied by that?  Is this little puzzle just one of the things we're supposed to have fun with or is there some sort of hidden clue or explanation for this we can tease out with careful reading and analytical thinking? 

[dfchang]

 

Don't get me wrong, this book will knock your socks off.  Thematically and emotionally you will be VERY satisfied.

 

I wasn't, for several reasons.

 

 

I'd be interested to hear them if you care to share them.

[Terez]

I will, when the book is out.

[Terez]

Just to clarify, there were certain parts of the end I liked, in concept if not in delivery, and don't read that as an attempt to say 'Brandon did it wrong' because I'm pretty sure it's mostly RJ I was disappointed with. I'll go into more detail when I review the book. I just didn't want people to have the impression that it the ending was universally loved. Part of it is the burden of knowing the difference between Min's viewings and Egwene's dreams, etc. I'm sure a lot of people will love it.

[GuyangMao]

Should I mention by the way that Rand has a saa in his eye in the fixed shape of a Dragon's Fang?  Ummm . . . good luck getting room and board for chopping some firewood with THAT there.  LoL WTF?? 

 

Well Min does say that the Dragon's Fang will turn into a celebration of victory or whatever instead of the mark of the Dark One, at some point in ToM.  Though I'd guess he'd try to keep that hidden still.

[Inkor]

Can I ask why Rand can't channel in the end?

[Luckers]

Can I ask why Rand can't channel in the end?

 

A question I would like answered as well.

[MattTaz]

just another one if i may - Is Mat's General ability decisive in the LB? Is he up against Demandred? Does the Hov come into play

and does Tuon meet her revered ancestor?

[bigdoug1971]

I've been lurking a little bit, and wishing I had the book now. So many questions, and so much excitement waiting for the last book. I refuse to ask questions or demand information from those blessed with an advanced copy. After reading some of the posts I have mixed feelings about what to expect.....If what I've read about Egwene is true, then I'll be very happy about that and disappointed it didn't happen sooner. If what I've read that was hinted about the "body swap" theory, I have a feeling I'm going to be extremely disappointed and let down. I read an earlier post, either from Luckers or Terez, that said the ending won't be satisfactory for everyone. Even without the book, or reading another spoiler, I'm sure that statement will be absolute truth. Cannot wait for January 8th!!!

[azrael.1289]

 

 

Can I ask why Rand can't channel in the end?

 

A question I would like answered as well.

 

 

 

I take it that it's made clear he can't channel but not why? That's strange.