We know Everything we need to Know for Tar'mon Gai'din by the end of TDR

[DaoineSidhe]

I must give some credit to sleepinghour for reminding me of this in his post in, oddly enough, the Brandon Sanderson debate thread.

 

We all know how much RJ LOVED his foreshadowing.  It is his use of foreshadowing, to where you reading a book is almost like solving a puzzle, that is one of WoT's greatest achievements.  And I would go so far as to say that we know almost all of the key parts of the Tar'mon Gai'din in the foreshadowing just in the first three books.  Some examples:

 

Spring Pole in Emond's Field:

Singing and dancing about the Spring Pole.  They always did it, but no one knew why...  First you have the proto-cover that seems to allude to this, and even without that, every time I re-read tEotW, this little aside sticks out more and more to me as being significant.  Could be me reading into it a bit, but the comment is so off-pace with the rest of the narrative surrounding it, it seems significant.

 

"No one can be so long in the Shadow that they cannot be reclaimed to the Light" (I know, not exact wording, but everybody knows the line)

Fain or a Forsaken returns to the Light, and is key in victory.  I know, many disagree with this, but hey, it's my theory! :P

 

Min seeing Broken Crown over Perrin

Bashere and Tenobia are dead.  Perrin will be King.

 

The Eye of the World as a Well

This Well of clean Saidin wasn't just sitting around to protect the Banner and the Horn, it was Significant.  I tend to like the idea of a well being needed to avoid the taint counter-stroke.

 

Horn of Valere:

The climax of tGH was only one tiny part of a preview of what the LB will be like.  The Heros are linked to the Dragon, and while they will even the odds, Rand is still the one who is key.

 

Ishamael's Strategy against Rand through 1st 3 books is a microcosm of the meta strategy seen throughout series.

Ishamael starts by trying to control Rand, make him a tool for the Shadow.  His tactics are intimidation and derision, but same goal: Rand on the dark Side.  We see this come to fruition in tGS, in which many of the plot points were originally designed for the last book.  In addition, Ishamael finally tries for Brute Force, and it fails him.  The Shadow will eventually try to overpower Rand, but at that point it will be too late.

 

Lan's ride at Tarwin's Gap/Raising Malkieri flag:

pointed out by sleepinghour, although the foreshadowing there is from New Spring

 

I know there are more, but its getting kind of late, and can't remember anymore off the top of my head.  But you get the idea.  The foreshadowing in other books is important, and adds depth to future events, but it's early on that you get the key foreshadowings about the end.  Afterall, RJ didn't know how long the series was going to be, early on, he thought it would be significantly shorter, so it makes sense that the early foreshadowing would focus heavily on the key end parts that were already known.  As the series expanded, later books could include foreshadowing of events only one or two books in the future more, and focus less on the LB foreshadowing.  Thoughts?

[condonmc]

I must give some credit to sleepinghour for reminding me of this in his post in, oddly enough, the Brandon Sanderson debate thread.

 

We all know how much RJ LOVED his foreshadowing.  It is his use of foreshadowing, to where you reading a book is almost like solving a puzzle, that is one of WoT's greatest achievements.  And I would go so far as to say that we know almost all of the key parts of the Tar'mon Gai'din in the foreshadowing just in the first three books.  Some examples:

 

Spring Pole in Emond's Field:

Singing and dancing about the Spring Pole.  They always did it, but no one knew why...  First you have the proto-cover that seems to allude to this, and even without that, every time I re-read tEotW, this little aside sticks out more and more to me as being significant.  Could be me reading into it a bit, but the comment is so off-pace with the rest of the narrative surrounding it, it seems significant.

 

"No one can be so long in the Shadow that they cannot be reclaimed to the Light" (I know, not exact wording, but everybody knows the line)

Fain or a Forsaken returns to the Light, and is key in victory.  I know, many disagree with this, but hey, it's my theory! :P

 

Min seeing Broken Crown over Perrin

Bashere and Tenobia are dead.  Perrin will be King.

 

The Eye of the World as a Well

This Well of clean Saidin wasn't just sitting around to protect the Banner and the Horn, it was Significant.  I tend to like the idea of a well being needed to avoid the taint counter-stroke.

 

Horn of Valere:

The climax of tGH was only one tiny part of a preview of what the LB will be like.  The Heros are linked to the Dragon, and while they will even the odds, Rand is still the one who is key.

 

Ishamael's Strategy against Rand through 1st 3 books is a microcosm of the meta strategy seen throughout series.

Ishamael starts by trying to control Rand, make him a tool for the Shadow.  His tactics are intimidation and derision, but same goal: Rand on the dark Side.  We see this come to fruition in tGS, in which many of the plot points were originally designed for the last book.  In addition, Ishamael finally tries for Brute Force, and it fails him.  The Shadow will eventually try to overpower Rand, but at that point it will be too late.

 

Lan's ride at Tarwin's Gap/Raising Malkieri flag:

pointed out by sleepinghour, although the foreshadowing there is from New Spring

 

I know there are more, but its getting kind of late, and can't remember anymore off the top of my head.  But you get the idea.  The foreshadowing in other books is important, and adds depth to future events, but it's early on that you get the key foreshadowings about the end.  Afterall, RJ didn't know how long the series was going to be, early on, he thought it would be significantly shorter, so it makes sense that the early foreshadowing would focus heavily on the key end parts that were already known.  As the series expanded, later books could include foreshadowing of events only one or two books in the future more, and focus less on the LB foreshadowing.  Thoughts?

Good stuff..

[jsbrads]

Perrin won't be king of Saldea, if anyone, it would be Faile as Queen.

 

There is tons of foreshadowing and I like it, but in no way does that give away the story.

Did you expect Rand to find Meirin in Tel rhoid? I have a theory about how she will help rand seal the prison.

besides for nynaeve who is the other woman with Rand in the circle? maybe that seachan woman?

So Rand will die, but live again, but how?

How will the happily ever after be depicted in the last chapter?

 

I'm ready to read the last book, the only concern I have is that the last book won't answer enough questions, not that there is nothing for it to reveal

[sleepinghour]

Perrin won't be king of Saldea, if anyone, it would be Faile as Queen.

 

Perrin will be Faile's co-regent. There have been lots of hints that something peculiar was up with the "broken crown," and we finally got an explanation in ToM's glossary:

 

Saldaea: A nation in the Borderlands. Its capital is Maradon, and its royal palace is known as the Cordamora (from the Old Tongue for "Heart of the People"). It is ruled by a king or queen, and is a hereditary monarchy. The Crown High Council, also known as the Council of Lords, advises and assists the monarch in administering the nation. The husband or wife of a Saldaean ruler is not simply a consort, but an almost co-equal ruler.

 

Also, when Egwene and Perrin first meet Elyas in TEotW, Egwene makes up a story that they're both from Saldaea, and Perrin says...

 

“From Saldaea, eh?” Elyas said when she was done.

Perrin nodded. “That’s right. We thought about seeing Maradon first. I’d surely like to see the King.”

[bigdoug1971]

I've enjoyed a lot of the foreshadowing in the books. Sometimes, you don't evemn realize it until it comes up again.

 

Mat's ashandeiri. No reason for him to have it, but it got him out of Finnland. Noal is Jain Farstrider. Nyneave healing death.

 

Lots of good stuff to come in the last book!!!

 

[Orderofolde]

The Eye of the World as a Well

This Well of clean Saidin wasn't just sitting around to protect the Banner and the Horn, it was Significant.  I tend to like the idea of a well being needed to avoid the taint counter-stroke.

I was reviewing the scene of Rand exploring his ancestor's memories of the breaking and the scene where Callandor is observed the Aes Sedai are speaking of two men who will come to them the next day, it is obvious that these are two "Who are newly raised and thus less prone to the madness than the others" are all a part of the party that created the Eye as LTT's banner was also spread across and falling off the table while Callandor lay atop it.  I am wondering if it wasn't just concentrated Saidin, but Saidin intertwined with Saidar.  The women Aes Sedai all died from the taint as they used themselves as filters for the taint to create that pool of the One Power.  I am wondering if the quest for finding a new power source that both could use that led to the bore being drilled eventually led them to discover some way of working the link to where not only was Saidin preserved for the Last Battle, but somehow made more potent with Saidair in it as well.  We see the healing of the Forsaken drawing on it, and the power doesn't really do that.  Rand smote an entire army of trollocs in Tarwin's Gap, traveled, and did all kinds of other things with it.  It was and likely is the largest and most powerful well known to exist.  

 

Take into account that we have Ashamen and Rand who have felt Saidar, and women who through linking can feel Saidin and how it is so contrasting to the power that they know.  Surely the Aes Sedai were able to figure out how to blend the power of both male and female halves to create a whole and true One Power that is equal in strength to the DO's own True Power.  What else could possibly seal the bore if not both the male and female half, which is why the taint happened and the patch wasn't effective.  When it is done correctly, tens if not hundreds of thousands of years will pass and the DO will be forgotten of, soldiering will be forgotten of, and swords will be a game where no one knows its origin.  With both the Chodan Kal destroyed, Rand has Callandor, but the women have...what, Vora's Sa'angreal?  It just isn't equal.  Nimbus of power, blasting Raken out of the sky for a few hours, snapping open A'dam it's great and all powerful, but pales beside Callandor. 

[Orderofolde]

What is it with multi-posts lately? Please delete.

[Ferdawoon]

The Eye of the World as a Well

This Well of clean Saidin wasn't just sitting around to protect the Banner and the Horn, it was Significant.  I tend to like the idea of a well being needed to avoid the taint counter-stroke.

I was reviewing the scene of Rand exploring his ancestor's memories of the breaking and the scene where Callandor is observed the Aes Sedai are speaking of two men who will come to them the next day, it is obvious that these are two "Who are newly raised and thus less prone to the madness than the others" are all a part of the party that created the Eye as LTT's banner was also spread across and falling off the table while Callandor lay atop it.  I am wondering if it wasn't just concentrated Saidin, but Saidin intertwined with Saidar.  The women Aes Sedai all died from the taint as they used themselves as filters for the taint to create that pool of the One Power.  I am wondering if the quest for finding a new power source that both could use that led to the bore being drilled eventually led them to discover some way of working the link to where not only was Saidin preserved for the Last Battle, but somehow made more potent with Saidair in it as well.  We see the healing of the Forsaken drawing on it, and the power doesn't really do that.  Rand smote an entire army of trollocs in Tarwin's Gap, traveled, and did all kinds of other things with it.  It was and likely is the largest and most powerful well known to exist.  

 

Take into account that we have Ashamen and Rand who have felt Saidar, and women who through linking can feel Saidin and how it is so contrasting to the power that they know.  Surely the Aes Sedai were able to figure out how to blend the power of both male and female halves to create a whole and true One Power that is equal in strength to the DO's own True Power.  What else could possibly seal the bore if not both the male and female half, which is why the taint happened and the patch wasn't effective.  When it is done correctly, tens if not hundreds of thousands of years will pass and the DO will be forgotten of, soldiering will be forgotten of, and swords will be a game where no one knows its origin.  With both the Chodan Kal destroyed, Rand has Callandor, but the women have...what, Vora's Sa'angreal?  It just isn't equal.  Nimbus of power, blasting Raken out of the sky for a few hours, snapping open A'dam it's great and all powerful, but pales beside Callandor. 

Saidin and Saidar can Never be mixed. That is one of the fundamental parts of the One Power. We see how Rand use a conduit of Saidar to funnel Saidin into Shadar Logoth, and that way cleanse the Taint. if there was any way that the two halves could have mixed, that would have been a nightmare. Taint slipping over to the female half of the Power instead of into Shadar Logoth?

it is also said many times that the One Power is Saidin and Saidar. Working together but at the same time also locked in a constant struggle.

 

I believe you are right in that they used themselves as filters to cleanse the taint from the Saidin they put into The Eye, but in no way could they merge the powers.

it is said that men and women working together could accomplish great feats that could not be done with only one half of the power, but that is when in a link. Not by actually mixing the powers.

But maybe I just missunderstood your statement.

 

Also, the Forsaken (Aginor?) drawing upon The Eye did not regenerate due to The Eye, but due to the True Power from the Dark one. Dont have the link to the interview-Database here atm but pretty sure there is RJ talking about it somewhere in there.

 

He also mention, at the same time, that the fact that Rand channel Light and Power during that episode is important. So maybe the Well had another effect on Rand?