Seanchan and the AoL

[thisguy]

One thing about that Moir quote.

 

You cant take it as truth. She believes it true, but she is AS herself. That what the Tower preaches, but the Children of the Light hold the opposite stance. The Children are no more darkfriends than the AS, even if they have an irrational hate.

 

Good point. Also, as I've said, Moir tells Rand in her note not to trust the AS. There's only a years time between the two points (maybe slightly more) and she had almost no contact with them. Siuane before her stilling says she only received to letters from Moir, the last being from Tear.

 

All avaialable evidence in world and auhtor q& as shows it to be true. They have been the main force for three thousand years and they have a different mandate than any other group. Again they are the only reason anyone even rememebrs a LB is coming. They saved the world in the breaking, Trolloc Wars etc. This is indisputable it is simply the history that RJ wrote. We know for fact it is not simply dogma such as the CoL preach.

 

At this point this is unbelievably furstrating. Why will you not listen every time I say "Btw who has ever claimed they are perfect. From the start I said there are good, bad and average ones just like the rest of the world. They can not be held to a different standard.". I have posted that over 3 times now and you keep ignoring it so yes everytime you keep saying I claim they are infallible or the only force for good that is a straw man.

It is NOT a straw man when you raise them being the main bulwark against the shadow for three thousand years every time someone questions them. It's not. I raise a point about why they're fallible and you say the same thing over and over. That's not my fault.

 

It is also indisputable that every one of the Great Nations (the 10) fought the DO. Aridhol did, too. If you don't like my perspective, find a way to change it. But, you simply posting the same thing over and over is not going to work.

[thisguy]

As for the use of exotics on Seanchan. My guess is that would have to be AS doing. If that is, seems they did a great job fighting the minion's of the DO over there for all of their faults. Seems like the AS on Rand's side of the world screwed with Hawkwing, then an ex AS really screwed with Hawkwing, and then foreign AS put the nail in the coffin.

 

You are patently absurd. End of.

You use that term a lot with people, I've noticed. I don't think you know what it means, really.

 

No, it's not absurd. As far as we know, there's no way for a non-channeler to reach the mirror worlds. IF the exotics were used to destroy all the trollocs and what-not over in Seanchan, that's AS doing.

[Suttree]

As for the use of exotics on Seanchan. My guess is that would have to be AS doing. If that is, seems they did a great job fighting the minion's of the DO over there for all of their faults. Seems like the AS on Rand's side of the world screwed with Hawkwing, then an ex AS really screwed with Hawkwing, and then foreign AS put the nail in the coffin.

 

You are patently absurd. End of.

You use that term a lot with people, I've noticed. I don't think you know what it means, really.

 

No, it's not absurd. As far as we know, there's no way for a non-channeler to reach the mirror worlds. IF the exotics were used to destroy all the trollocs and what-not over in Seanchan, that's AS doing.

 

Yeah us lit majors usually have trouble with those distinctions.

 

As has been proven to you, the channelers on that side of the ocean where pre -WT. They hold no connection to modern AS and exterminating a few shadowspawn is no the same as holding the shadow at bay for 3,000 years. It is patently absurd.

 

Let's make this simple. The channelers in Seanchan and the Land of the Mad Men have no connection to the WT AS. They are totally separate groups.

[roocifer]

This is too good lol

[thisguy]

As for the use of exotics on Seanchan. My guess is that would have to be AS doing. If that is, seems they did a great job fighting the minion's of the DO over there for all of their faults. Seems like the AS on Rand's side of the world screwed with Hawkwing, then an ex AS really screwed with Hawkwing, and then foreign AS put the nail in the coffin.

 

You are patently absurd. End of.

You use that term a lot with people, I've noticed. I don't think you know what it means, really.

 

No, it's not absurd. As far as we know, there's no way for a non-channeler to reach the mirror worlds. IF the exotics were used to destroy all the trollocs and what-not over in Seanchan, that's AS doing.

 

Yeah us lit majors usually have trouble with those distinctions.

 

As has been proven to you, the channelers on that side of the ocean where pre -WT. They hold no connection to modern AS and exterminating a few shadowspawn is no the same as holding the shadow at bay for 3,000 years. It is patently absurd.

 

Let's make this simple. The channelers in Seanchan and the Land of the Mad Men have no connection to the WT AS. They are totally separate groups.

 

You say that a lot, too. Being a lit major. I graduated years ago Cum Laude as a lit major and was nominated by my University to try for a Fulbright Scholarship. So, anyway....

Did I say that they were connected to the white Tower? No. I just said they were AS. Why did I say they were AS? Because, what you posted said that they were AS. It didn't say channelers. You are patently absurd.

[Suttree]

It is also indisputable that every one of the Great Nations (the 10) fought the DO. Aridhol did, too. If you don't like my perspective, find a way to change it. But, you simply posting the same thing over and over is not going to work.

 

You fail to listen to evidence that is your problem mate. I have given you more than enough quotes and corrected you numerous times since you have joined DM. This entire discussion is unbelievably noobish. It is canon that they have been the main force holding the shadow at bay, It is indisputable. Btw you still have not aknowledged that I stated they are mixed bag long ago.

 

As was mentioned earlier in this thread. Mabreem who founded the 10 Nations compact was AS. Many of the Queens of those 10 Nations were AS. Rashima Kerenmosa who made all the important miltary and diplomatic overtures which resulted in the decisive Battle of Maighande was AS.

 

Edit: Fulbright? That is very impressive. Where did you study?

[thisguy]

This is too good lol

Yeah, it's a bit of all right.

[thisguy]

It is also indisputable that every one of the Great Nations (the 10) fought the DO. Aridhol did, too. If you don't like my perspective, find a way to change it. But, you simply posting the same thing over and over is not going to work.

 

You fail to listen to evidence that is your problem mate. I have given you more than enough quotes and corrected you numerous times since you have joined. This entire discussion is unbelievably noobish. It is canon that they have been the main force holding the shadow at bay, It is indisputable. Btw you still have not aknowledged what that I stated they are mixed bag long ago.

 

As was stated earlier in this thread. Mabreem who founded the 10 Nations compact was AS. Many of the Queens of those 10 Nations were AS. Rashima Kerenmosa who made all the important miltary and diplomatic overtures which resulted in the decisive Battle of Maighande was AS.

Yeah, that is true. When did I say the AS didn't do anything right? Never did. You make it sound like they fought the Shadow all by themselves. There's a reason why the whole world is distrustful of Aes Sedai, and it has more to do than the men going insane over 3000 years before. "It's canon" It's a book of fiction and people in the actual fictional world would probably find fault with what you're saying.

[thisguy]

Here's a good question for you, do you think Hawkwing would see much of a difference between Tower AS and the rest?

[Suttree]

Yeah, that is true. When did I say the AS didn't do anything right? Never did. You make it sound like they fought the Shadow all by themselves.

 

I never have once claimed or made it sound like that. I thank you to stop continiously misrepresenting me. "Main" force, does not mean "only" force by any stretch of the definition.

 

Still interested in where you did your undergrad as well?

 

Yes per RJ it is canon. Not sure why you feel the need to claim it is a fictional book? The events in world support the claim that the WT has been the "main" force to hold the shadow at bay for 3,000 years. Without them the fight would already be lost and no one would remember the LB.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_(fiction)

[thisguy]

Yeah, that is true. When did I say the AS didn't do anything right? Never did. You make it sound like they fought the Shadow all by themselves.

 

I never have once claimed or made it sound like that. I thank you to stop continiously misrepresenting me. "Main" force, does not mean "only" force by any stretch of the definition.

 

Still interested in where you did your undergrad as well?

I went to more than one school. I also have a graduate degree. My first school was the University of Delaware.

Now, I've seen you get very upset with someone when they attacked your logic (wasn't me) and I've seen you turn around and do the same to others.

 

So, here's the deal, the AS were and are a bulwark against the Shadow. They've also failed miserably many times, they've also trained DFs, they've also allowed DF to represent the Tower, they've divided up and killed each other, they've screwed up a lot. The whole bulwark thing does not change any of that, and more.

[thisguy]

No, Sutt, the whole book, tWoT series is ficitional. As a lot of people seem to feel to one degree or another the same way I do about the AS, both in the book and outside of the book, I fail to see what your problem is with me questioning their motives.

[Suttree]

I went to more than one school. I also have a graduate degree. My first school was the University of Delaware.

Now, I've seen you get very upset with someone when they attacked your logic (wasn't me) and I've seen you turn around and do the same to others.

 

 

Yeah I got upset when shortkut falsely attacked it in getting personnel. Others jumped in to point out how badly he was wrong in his assessment .That is very different than proving someone wrong. The two are not comparable.

 

So, here's the deal, the AS were and are a bulwark against the Shadow. They've also failed miserably many times, they've also trained DFs, they've also allowed DF to represent the Tower, they've divided up and killed each other, they've screwed up a lot. The whole bulwark thing does not change any of that, and more.

 

Which I have never once disputed. You on the other hand continue to zig zag and change your point based on how the conversation flows.

 

When did AS divide up and kill each other btw? You have accepted at least that the BA is a separate organization at this point correct?

 

That is great about University of Delaware btw. It's a top 100 school I believe. I went to UCSB...lucky to have some incredible people there as well.

[thisguy]

I went to more than one school. I also have a graduate degree. My first school was the University of Delaware.

Now, I've seen you get very upset with someone when they attacked your logic (wasn't me) and I've seen you turn around and do the same to others.

 

 

Yeah I got upset when shortkut falsely attacked it in getting personnel. Others jumped in to point out how badly he was wrong in his assessment .That is very different than proving someone wrong. The two are not comparable.

 

So, here's the deal, the AS were and are a bulwark against the Shadow. They've also failed miserably many times, they've also trained DFs, they've also allowed DF to represent the Tower, they've divided up and killed each other, they've screwed up a lot. The whole bulwark thing does not change any of that, and more.

 

Which I have never once disputed. You on the other hand continue to zig zag and change your point based on how the conversation flows.

 

When did AS divide up and kill each other btw? You have accepted at least that the BA is a separate organization at this point correct?

 

That is great about University of Delaware btw. It's a top 100 school I believe. I went to UCSB...lucky to have some incredible people there as well.

Ummmm.... when Elaida took over. If a BA agent is being treated by the Tower as AS they are AS.

 

The original discussion we had was about AS in general. The next one was about the BA. The only part of my argument that has been changed at all is that the Forsaken were not AS. However, they show that AS, even when they were at their best, are not infallible and I will question them and their motives constantly. Sorry.

 

As for the school: good for you and good luck. I fail to see what any of that has to do with discussions here.

[Suttree]

As for the school: good for you and good luck. I fail to see what any of that has to do with discussions here.

 

?

 

When you mentioned you had the same major I was just curious as to where you went. I finished school a while back as well. How do you think I can afford to post here during the day? I'm in the office of course! ;)It doesn't have to be all AS debate does it?

[Knivy]

Suttree, Id like to argue that the borderlands are the main force against the shadow, not the Tower. I think you have even said they dont have the numbers to. The Greens do what they can, with the occasional blue and brown, but outside the Trolloc wars, I dont believe that their main goal has been defense against the shadow. Unless you view them like the Children, hunting darkfriends wherever they are (kinda funny, right?). They do what they can, but it isnt enough to deem them the "main" force.

 

Just because individual sisters cant lie, the Tower most definitely does. They proclaim their greatness and blot out their mistakes just like any other organization does. And where do we know that the AS are the only ones who know about the last battle? The Seanchan do, and they "have no connection to AS" before the invasion, No doubt the borderlanders do as well.

 

Unless youre making the point that they wouldnt know without foretelling, which I will concede.

 

 

And AS have had several rebellions, where they undoubtedly killed one another, in the Secret Histories.

[thisguy]

As for the school: good for you and good luck. I fail to see what any of that has to do with discussions here.

 

?

 

When you mentioned you had the same major I was just curious as to where you went. I finished school a while back as well. How do you think I can afford to post here during the day? I'm in the office of course! ;)It doesn't have to be all AS debate does it?

fair enough. I have just seen you bring that up quite a bit. I apologize.

[thisguy]

Suttree, Id like to argue that the borderlands are the main force against the shadow, not the Tower. I think you have even said they dont have the numbers to. The Greens do what they can, with the occasional blue and brown, but outside the Trolloc wars, I dont believe that their main goal has been defense against the shadow. Unless you view them like the Children, hunting darkfriends wherever they are (kinda funny, right?). They do what they can, but it isnt enough to deem them the "main" force.

 

Just because individual sisters cant lie, the Tower most definitely does. They proclaim their greatness and blot out their mistakes just like any other organization does. And where do we know that the AS are the only ones who know about the last battle? The Seanchan do, and they "have no connection to AS" before the invasion, No doubt the borderlanders do as well.

 

Unless youre making the point that they wouldnt know without foretelling, which I will concede.

 

 

And AS have had several rebellions, where they undoubtedly killed one another, in the Secret Histories.

I agree. If the Borderlands didn't have their s@#% together, Randland would be no more.

[Suttree]

Suttree, Id like to argue that the borderlands are the main force against the shadow, not the Tower. I think you have even said they dont have the numbers to. The Greens do what they can, with the occasional blue and brown, but outside the Trolloc wars, I dont believe that their main goal has been defense against the shadow. Unless you view them like the Children, hunting darkfriends wherever they are (kinda funny, right?). They do what they can, but it isnt enough to deem them the "main" force.

 

Just because individual sisters cant lie, the Tower most definitely does. They proclaim their greatness and blot out their mistakes just like any other organization does. And where do we know that the AS are the only ones who know about the last battle? The Seanchan do, and they "have no connection to AS" before the invasion, No doubt the borderlanders do as well.

 

Unless youre making the point that they wouldnt know without foretelling, which I will concede.

 

 

And AS have had several rebellions, where they undoubtedly killed one another, in the Secret Histories.

 

I guess it would depend on the time frame and how you define it. Taken as a whole over the three thousand years including them pulling the world out of the breaking and the trolloc wars then there is no comparison. If you count recent years? Well we know a winter of heavy raiding was almost unheard of since the Trolloc Wars. Does beating back raids here and there surpass what AS have done?

 

As for Moiraines claim that AS are the reason people even remember the last battle, AS would certainly be responsible for the world knowing during Hawkwings time. Luthair carried that knowledge over with him. So yeah the root of it came from the WT and how they pulled together after the breaking to preserve knowledge. In addition she has dedicated her life to the DR and fighting the Shadow. Don't you think she would have studied and knows better than anyone exactly what the AS have done?

 

There are certain crucial junctures where the world would already have been finished without them. That is part of why I view them as the major force for all that they are flawed.

[Knivy]

Okay, I respect that. Dont agree, but respect it.

[Mr Ares]

]If one commits a crime, one is a criminal from the time the crime is committed, not from the time one is convicted. Even if one is never convicted, never even suspected, one is still a criminal. When an AS is stripped of stole and staff, that is when she is formally acknowledged as no longer being part of the order. It doesn't mean that she did not forfeit the right to call herself AS before then, even if she did so unbeknownst to the AS order. When the church excommunicates someone, the excommunication is caused by the action, whether or not the church issues a formal acknowledgement of one being excommunicated. By joining the Shadow, they have forfeited the right to be called AS. They have, in effect, resigned as AS, even though they haven't announced it. As Egwene said, a vote from a BA sitter is not valid.

 

Yes, there are deficiencies in the WT's policing of those that call themselves AS. Elaida is not Black. The WT could claim credit for the good she did, but must also accept blame for the bad she did. Alviarin is Black. The WT can claim no credit for any good she might have done in her time, but nor are they to blame for the bad she did, except insofar as she was acting under the orders of the WT. Suttree is not trying to claim the AS only get credit for the good stuff, which is what shortkut tried to present his position as. He is claiming that they do not get the blame for BA - they can still take the blame for bad choices made by the WT itself. That is a rather more reasonable position. Evil done by the WT belongs to the WT, evil done by the BA belongs to the BA. The WT, as a failed institution, might not have done enough to police their own organisation, and in doing so allowed to BA to take root there. They are not to blame for the BA's actions, they are responsible for trying to root them out.

Your argument is completely philosophical and not realistic. A criminal is only a criminal because of laws to begin with. Laws are manmade. Men have to enforce the laws. A cop who breaks the law in a manner where he can lose his badge is still a cop until tried and convicted. Same with the AS.

Until BA have been formally kicked out of the AS, they are AS.

My argument may be philosophical, but that does not imply that it is wrong. Until BA have been formally kicked out, they are still recognised as AS. There is a difference between perception and reality. Yes, there is still a perception of them as still being AS, but that is not the reality. Simply repeating your cop analogy doesn't further your point, especially as I provided a counter-analogy, of people lsoing ststus despite lacking formal acknowledgement of that loss of status. In fact, a good chunk your post doesn't address my point at all - only your last and first sentences. Does being seen as an AS make one an AS? Does being seen as an AS by AS make you an AS? I would say no to both. If people - including AS - see you as an AS, they will extend to you the respect and privileges they would normally extend unto the AS, but that doesn't change the reality of what you are. If, by becoming a BA, you forfeit the right to call yourself BA, then that right is forfeited even if people are not aware of you having forfeited the right - you are merely claiming as your right things which are not.

 

Here's the big sticking point - they are accountable for their actions. They do nothing to root out or discover BA within their ranks even though they've suspected them being there. They've trained darkfriends to become Aes Sedai

We have little knowledge of the WT's actions over huge chunks of their 3,000+ years of history. They might not have done anything recently, but that is not to say they have done nothing in the past. Now, most of them do not suspect the existence of the BA. Those who do haven't, for the most part, been in a position to do a lot about it. Moiraine, for example, could not dedicate herself to the BA hunt. Cadsuane tried to stop them but was unable to. Most lack the power to carry out a true search for them. Those that do lack the evidence that such a thing is needed. The BA hunters had both the power to do so, and the suspicion, and therefore were able to begin making inroads into finding them, but were limited in what they could do.

 

Not to mention, if the Tower sends out an AS on a mission and that AS ends up being BA and they do "bad" things while on that mission, whose fault is it?

First and foremost, it is the fault of the person responsible for doing the bad things. The idea of personal responsibility would not allow us any other conclusion. The WT might incur some degree of responsibility for putting them in a position they were unsuited for, but it is the individual, not the Tower, who has done the bad things in question, and they were not done on the orders of the WT. If you do something bad, it is your fault.

 

Yes, and a Senator who was known to be a traitor wouldn't be Senator. But, people get away for their entire lives sometimes breaking the law and get to keep their jobs. It doesn't matter what would happen, it matters what does happen. If it rained enough my crops wouldn't die.. it didn't rain, they are dead. Obviously, there are members of the BA who have lived their entire lives as AS. That means, they are AS. If I play for the Yankees but really would rather be a Met, I'm still a Yankee, unless I quit or get kicked out. What you are talking about is a matter of principle, not reality.

No, what you are talking about isn't reality, what you are talking about is perception. BA are perceived as AS. In reality they are not AS.

 

Look at the Three Oaths, not one oath swearing to defend the light. Don't you find that odd? I think RJ did this purposely. You're supposed to not know if you can trust the AS or not. There are very few AS that don't have something fishy about them - that we get to know somewhat. They even hide their knowledge of the OP from each other. Don't you find that odd?

No and no. To the second question, secrecy is not particularly odd. To the first, the reason to swear an Oath to defend the Light would be to counter a belief that the AS weren't serving the Light, in much the same way as the existing Oaths were put in place to help restore trust in a failing institution. You worry that the AS will lie to gain power - so they swear they will not lie. You worry they will use the OP to destroy their enemies, so they make themselves unable to. Unless there was already a widespread worry that AS were not serving the Light, the need for an Oath to do so does not exist. Further, such an Oath would be so vague as to be meaningless.

[Ashaman Kovan]

They've done bad things, stupid things, good things and smart things. There is room for improvement, yet without them the world would have been doomed a long time ago. End of discussion? XD

[Knivy]

They've done bad things, stupid things, good things and smart things. There is room for improvement, yet without them the world would have been doomed a long time ago. End of discussion? XD

Weeeeellllll if you go with the "without them" situation, there wouldn't be this problem in the first place... ;)

[thisguy]

There's a difference between perception and reality but when the organization that makes you AS says that you are AS, you are AS. The organization has changed what makes a channeler an AS more than once. If the organization says you are then you are.

[thisguy]

]If one commits a crime, one is a criminal from the time the crime is committed, not from the time one is convicted. Even if one is never convicted, never even suspected, one is still a criminal. When an AS is stripped of stole and staff, that is when she is formally acknowledged as no longer being part of the order. It doesn't mean that she did not forfeit the right to call herself AS before then, even if she did so unbeknownst to the AS order. When the church excommunicates someone, the excommunication is caused by the action, whether or not the church issues a formal acknowledgement of one being excommunicated. By joining the Shadow, they have forfeited the right to be called AS. They have, in effect, resigned as AS, even though they haven't announced it. As Egwene said, a vote from a BA sitter is not valid.

 

Yes, there are deficiencies in the WT's policing of those that call themselves AS. Elaida is not Black. The WT could claim credit for the good she did, but must also accept blame for the bad she did. Alviarin is Black. The WT can claim no credit for any good she might have done in her time, but nor are they to blame for the bad she did, except insofar as she was acting under the orders of the WT. Suttree is not trying to claim the AS only get credit for the good stuff, which is what shortkut tried to present his position as. He is claiming that they do not get the blame for BA - they can still take the blame for bad choices made by the WT itself. That is a rather more reasonable position. Evil done by the WT belongs to the WT, evil done by the BA belongs to the BA. The WT, as a failed institution, might not have done enough to police their own organisation, and in doing so allowed to BA to take root there. They are not to blame for the BA's actions, they are responsible for trying to root them out.

Your argument is completely philosophical and not realistic. A criminal is only a criminal because of laws to begin with. Laws are manmade. Men have to enforce the laws. A cop who breaks the law in a manner where he can lose his badge is still a cop until tried and convicted. Same with the AS.

Until BA have been formally kicked out of the AS, they are AS.

My argument may be philosophical, but that does not imply that it is wrong. Until BA have been formally kicked out, they are still recognised as AS. There is a difference between perception and reality. Yes, there is still a perception of them as still being AS, but that is not the reality. Simply repeating your cop analogy doesn't further your point, especially as I provided a counter-analogy, of people lsoing ststus despite lacking formal acknowledgement of that loss of status. In fact, a good chunk your post doesn't address my point at all - only your last and first sentences. Does being seen as an AS make one an AS? Does being seen as an AS by AS make you an AS? I would say no to both. If people - including AS - see you as an AS, they will extend to you the respect and privileges they would normally extend unto the AS, but that doesn't change the reality of what you are. If, by becoming a BA, you forfeit the right to call yourself BA, then that right is forfeited even if people are not aware of you having forfeited the right - you are merely claiming as your right things which are not.

 

Here's the big sticking point - they are accountable for their actions. They do nothing to root out or discover BA within their ranks even though they've suspected them being there. They've trained darkfriends to become Aes Sedai

We have little knowledge of the WT's actions over huge chunks of their 3,000+ years of history. They might not have done anything recently, but that is not to say they have done nothing in the past. Now, most of them do not suspect the existence of the BA. Those who do haven't, for the most part, been in a position to do a lot about it. Moiraine, for example, could not dedicate herself to the BA hunt. Cadsuane tried to stop them but was unable to. Most lack the power to carry out a true search for them. Those that do lack the evidence that such a thing is needed. The BA hunters had both the power to do so, and the suspicion, and therefore were able to begin making inroads into finding them, but were limited in what they could do.

 

Not to mention, if the Tower sends out an AS on a mission and that AS ends up being BA and they do "bad" things while on that mission, whose fault is it?

First and foremost, it is the fault of the person responsible for doing the bad things. The idea of personal responsibility would not allow us any other conclusion. The WT might incur some degree of responsibility for putting them in a position they were unsuited for, but it is the individual, not the Tower, who has done the bad things in question, and they were not done on the orders of the WT. If you do something bad, it is your fault.

 

Yes, and a Senator who was known to be a traitor wouldn't be Senator. But, people get away for their entire lives sometimes breaking the law and get to keep their jobs. It doesn't matter what would happen, it matters what does happen. If it rained enough my crops wouldn't die.. it didn't rain, they are dead. Obviously, there are members of the BA who have lived their entire lives as AS. That means, they are AS. If I play for the Yankees but really would rather be a Met, I'm still a Yankee, unless I quit or get kicked out. What you are talking about is a matter of principle, not reality.

No, what you are talking about isn't reality, what you are talking about is perception. BA are perceived as AS. In reality they are not AS.

 

Look at the Three Oaths, not one oath swearing to defend the light. Don't you find that odd? I think RJ did this purposely. You're supposed to not know if you can trust the AS or not. There are very few AS that don't have something fishy about them - that we get to know somewhat. They even hide their knowledge of the OP from each other. Don't you find that odd?

No and no. To the second question, secrecy is not particularly odd. To the first, the reason to swear an Oath to defend the Light would be to counter a belief that the AS weren't serving the Light, in much the same way as the existing Oaths were put in place to help restore trust in a failing institution. You worry that the AS will lie to gain power - so they swear they will not lie. You worry they will use the OP to destroy their enemies, so they make themselves unable to. Unless there was already a widespread worry that AS were not serving the Light, the need for an Oath to do so does not exist. Further, such an Oath would be so vague as to be meaningless.

 

There's worry in the Tower that they're not serving the light. I don't agree. How would it be a counter? It would cement that they are serving the light. That makes no sense.