The One power

[joeron bigelow]

I haven't really been able to find this answer in the wikis unless i missed it.

 

But in simple words - is using the one power more like

 

a: "Bending" the elements as Aang of "Avatar" fame does it?

 

or

 

b. whatever it is that Goku does with his Spirit Bomb and Kamehameha?

 

 

I think I got confused because Mat's amulet blocks the power from touching him, but doesn't block the "results" of the power touching him.

 

But shouldn't lightning and fire be "the power?"

 

I'm making lightning out of thin air - which is making it with the power I would think - so therefore its a bolt of lightning power, and Rahvin shouldnt have been able to bolt Mat's ass in FoH.

 

If you can direct me to another website or a link that give this answer, it would be appreciated.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Hmm, a difficult question. The only thing that I can think of that would explain it in any depth would be the 2nd chapter of the World of the Wheel of Time. http://encyclopaedia...uide/index.html (the first one)

 

TO give a short answer, it is more like Aang and element-bending. But instead of the person actually doing it, it is done through the use of the OP.

 

In effect, the OP is more like a lighter, than an actual fire. (if that makes any sense)

 

It allows things to be created without actually physically having the things there.

[A Rant Lord]

Yeah basically it means balefire (for example) can't touch him. A table thrown at him will hurt. Now your question is a good one. Things to be considered here firstly are your questions: Is lightning real nature power lightning, or is it weaves of the OP? Secondly if it is weaves of the OP, Mat being hit directly shouldn't hurt him, if it hits the ground 1 meter before his feet, that'll probably do the trick. Does anybody know if this has been asked in an interview or something?

[ickis_87]

the way I see the one power is more of both but nether. If you take into account that channeling heightens the senses to o.t.t limits maybe it's closer molecular deconstruction and reconstruction. basically following the rules of alchamy but without the equivelant trade rule and more of a personal cap rule.

 

so in answering the question if molecules have been changed to form fire, lightning water etc, they'd have no effect, but if you picked up a fire, water or re-directed lightning then it would take effect.

 

of course this is my personal theory. it's just how i've pictured it being used

[Vardar]

I haven't really been able to find this answer in the wikis unless i missed it.

 

But in simple words - is using the one power more like

 

a: "Bending" the elements as Aang of "Avatar" fame does it?

 

or

 

b. whatever it is that Goku does with his Spirit Bomb and Kamehameha?

 

 

I think I got confused because Mat's amulet blocks the power from touching him, but doesn't block the "results" of the power touching him.

 

But shouldn't lightning and fire be "the power?"

 

I'm making lightning out of thin air - which is making it with the power I would think - so therefore its a bolt of lightning power, and Rahvin shouldnt have been able to bolt Mat's ass in FoH.

 

If you can direct me to another website or a link that give this answer, it would be appreciated.

 

I can answer the lightning one. There are two types of lightning used in the story, One like the Seanchan use, direct weaves (Similiar to fireballs) which is Air and Fire I believe Eggy said, and one where the Channeler summons clouds and pull lightning from there. This isn't a direct weave more of an AOE type thing. That's what Mat hit with, and what Rand/Avi/Eggy did during the big Aiel battle. It's less draining than doing direct lightning weaves. (The books touched upon those weaves briefly in different sections.)

[Gristle]

I find this an interesting question, because the descriptions of the power being used seem to change depending on what's being done.

 

Most of the descriptions describe the need for a "weave" pattern to be created before something tangible happens. So, it's not just a matter of imagining a fireball - there's a pattern you have to create that will result in a fireball. At the same time, though, people frequently use threads of the power to directly touch things and it has an effect. Picking up things with air, heating things with fire, etc. Because of this, I've never been sure what you can/can't do directly with threads of the power versus needing a weave.

 

There also doesn't appear to be much correlation between direct use of the power and actual physics. I'm thinking of this compared to the Belgariad, where if you lifted something heavy it would push you down as if you were doing it by hand. Lifting heavy things doesn't seem to impart an equal & opposite action on the channeler, Rand's power-wrought sword cut through bodies and armor with virtually no resistance, etc. At the same time there are clearly physical limits (weight does matter for some reason, you can't lift yourself, bridges have a maximum length, etc) but I don't think it's 100% clear what they are or why.

 

I've always wondered - if there's little to no physical resistance, and no opposite effect on the channeler, why don't OP users just create gigantic blades and cut through entire armies in one swipe? Why go through all the trouble to create fireballs, deathgates, etc when it seems you could just create a huge blade and just sweep it through the army at will?

[Knivy]

AS fighting has always seemed a little weak to me. A fireball does virtually nothing, while just a plain fire could be a thousand times more effective. Just make a cage of air+a spark inside+everyone dead.

[Luckers]

I haven't really been able to find this answer in the wikis unless i missed it.

 

But in simple words - is using the one power more like

 

a: "Bending" the elements as Aang of "Avatar" fame does it?

 

or

 

b. whatever it is that Goku does with his Spirit Bomb and Kamehameha?

 

 

I think I got confused because Mat's amulet blocks the power from touching him, but doesn't block the "results" of the power touching him.

 

But shouldn't lightning and fire be "the power?"

 

I'm making lightning out of thin air - which is making it with the power I would think - so therefore its a bolt of lightning power, and Rahvin shouldnt have been able to bolt Mat's ass in FoH.

 

If you can direct me to another website or a link that give this answer, it would be appreciated.

 

I can answer the lightning one. There are two types of lightning used in the story, One like the Seanchan use, direct weaves (Similiar to fireballs) which is Air and Fire I believe Eggy said, and one where the Channeler summons clouds and pull lightning from there. This isn't a direct weave more of an AOE type thing. That's what Mat hit with, and what Rand/Avi/Eggy did during the big Aiel battle. It's less draining than doing direct lightning weaves. (The books touched upon those weaves briefly in different sections.)

 

Actually this is incorrect, as I pointed out on the aMoL spoiler board. Whether the weave involves creating the lightning from scratch or utilizing existing charged electrons in the atmosphere (as Eggy/Rand/Avi did when using existing clouds), it is still an indirect weave. In both cases the channeler is using the One Power to provide the energy needed for the electrons to make the leap to ground themselves--and in the case of using existing cloud formations this is easier as the channeler has to provide less energy--but in both cases the lightning bolt--the thing that does the damage--is not being maintened directly by the Power--ergo not a direct effect in either incarnation.

 

A direct effect is if the One Power is needed to sustain the effect--a fireball, for instance, is a direct effect weave. Without the weave there to sustain it the fireball would disipate. Electrical weaves are indirect weaves--once the the Power has given the electrons energy, it need not be present for the effect to occur. Throwing a rock is much the same--once the Power has lent the rock kinetic energy, it need not be there for the effect to continue.

[bbarrett90]

I've always viewed the OP as manipulation of the elements, as the types of power would suggest. They correspond to different parts of nature, and involve controlling a different "substance." RJ knew that matter is energy, and that's what the OP is essentially. i can see this being an easy way to base his system of magic. The following relations are what I can come up with.

 

Earth = control of solid matter

Water = control of liquid matter

Air = control of gaseous matter

Fire = control of atomic vibrations/thermal energy (essentially that's all thermal energy really is, atomic vibrations)

Spirit = control of Electromagnetic radiation.

 

So I think that it's closer to bending from avatar. The OP doesnt create earth, or create air, it manipulates it. In the WoT series humans have evolved to a point where they dont need to understand the physics behind what they're manipulating in order to be able to channel, it's "natural" to them. So when a channeler uses air to bind or lift something, what they're doing is using the one power to create molecular bonds between the air molecules that are part of the thread, and these bonds are what makes the air seem solid.

 

It makes me think of the physics lesson in i believe it was TGS, when aviendha tries to put out the fire from the guy who spontaneously combusted, and i think it was bair or someone who said "you have to use the pressure and flow of the water itself to do what you just did" or something like that, cant remember exactly. just makes me laugh, because the people from the driest place in randland know about fluid mechanics...

[XoMeltdownoX]

I haven't really been able to find this answer in the wikis unless i missed it.

 

But in simple words - is using the one power more like

 

a: "Bending" the elements as Aang of "Avatar" fame does it?

 

or

 

b. whatever it is that Goku does with his Spirit Bomb and Kamehameha?

 

 

I think I got confused because Mat's amulet blocks the power from touching him, but doesn't block the "results" of the power touching him.

 

But shouldn't lightning and fire be "the power?"

 

I'm making lightning out of thin air - which is making it with the power I would think - so therefore its a bolt of lightning power, and Rahvin shouldnt have been able to bolt Mat's ass in FoH.

 

If you can direct me to another website or a link that give this answer, it would be appreciated.

 

I can answer the lightning one. There are two types of lightning used in the story, One like the Seanchan use, direct weaves (Similiar to fireballs) which is Air and Fire I believe Eggy said, and one where the Channeler summons clouds and pull lightning from there. This isn't a direct weave more of an AOE type thing. That's what Mat hit with, and what Rand/Avi/Eggy did during the big Aiel battle. It's less draining than doing direct lightning weaves. (The books touched upon those weaves briefly in different sections.)

 

Actually this is incorrect, as I pointed out on the aMoL spoiler board. Whether the weave involves creating the lightning from scratch or utilizing existing charged electrons in the atmosphere (as Eggy/Rand/Avi did when using existing clouds), it is still an indirect weave. In both cases the channeler is using the One Power to provide the energy needed for the electrons to make the leap to ground themselves--and in the case of using existing cloud formations this is easier as the channeler has to provide less energy--but in both cases the lightning bolt--the thing that does the damage--is not being maintened directly by the Power--ergo not a direct effect in either incarnation.

 

A direct effect is if the One Power is needed to sustain the effect--a fireball, for instance, is a direct effect weave. Without the weave there to sustain it the fireball would disipate. Electrical weaves are indirect weaves--once the the Power has given the electrons energy, it need not be present for the effect to occur. Throwing a rock is much the same--once the Power has lent the rock kinetic energy, it need not be there for the effect to continue.

In either case we need the power to cause an overload of electrons at the source. The weave can certainly do this. Electricity will follow the path of least resistance. So in order to make the lightning strike exactly where the chaneller needs, the weave must touch the strike zone to make sure this is the path of least resistance for grounding of the charge. So while I agree that lightning is an effect, the weave must still touch the strike zone. If Mat were the target he is safe. If the target is an area or group of people next to him, he is toast.

[Luckers]

I haven't really been able to find this answer in the wikis unless i missed it.

 

But in simple words - is using the one power more like

 

a: "Bending" the elements as Aang of "Avatar" fame does it?

 

or

 

b. whatever it is that Goku does with his Spirit Bomb and Kamehameha?

 

 

I think I got confused because Mat's amulet blocks the power from touching him, but doesn't block the "results" of the power touching him.

 

But shouldn't lightning and fire be "the power?"

 

I'm making lightning out of thin air - which is making it with the power I would think - so therefore its a bolt of lightning power, and Rahvin shouldnt have been able to bolt Mat's ass in FoH.

 

If you can direct me to another website or a link that give this answer, it would be appreciated.

 

I can answer the lightning one. There are two types of lightning used in the story, One like the Seanchan use, direct weaves (Similiar to fireballs) which is Air and Fire I believe Eggy said, and one where the Channeler summons clouds and pull lightning from there. This isn't a direct weave more of an AOE type thing. That's what Mat hit with, and what Rand/Avi/Eggy did during the big Aiel battle. It's less draining than doing direct lightning weaves. (The books touched upon those weaves briefly in different sections.)

 

Actually this is incorrect, as I pointed out on the aMoL spoiler board. Whether the weave involves creating the lightning from scratch or utilizing existing charged electrons in the atmosphere (as Eggy/Rand/Avi did when using existing clouds), it is still an indirect weave. In both cases the channeler is using the One Power to provide the energy needed for the electrons to make the leap to ground themselves--and in the case of using existing cloud formations this is easier as the channeler has to provide less energy--but in both cases the lightning bolt--the thing that does the damage--is not being maintened directly by the Power--ergo not a direct effect in either incarnation.

 

A direct effect is if the One Power is needed to sustain the effect--a fireball, for instance, is a direct effect weave. Without the weave there to sustain it the fireball would disipate. Electrical weaves are indirect weaves--once the the Power has given the electrons energy, it need not be present for the effect to occur. Throwing a rock is much the same--once the Power has lent the rock kinetic energy, it need not be there for the effect to continue.

In either case we need the power to cause an overload of electrons at the source. The weave can certainly do this. Electricity will follow the path of least resistance. So in order to make the lightning strike exactly where the chaneller needs, the weave must touch the strike zone to make sure this is the path of least resistance for grounding of the charge. So while I agree that lightning is an effect, the weave must still touch the strike zone. If Mat were the target he is safe. If the target is an area or group of people next to him, he is toast.

 

Or funnel it in some way. Were it as simple as painting a target then the Seanchan stun gun weave--a much more localized effect--would not have worked against Mat. It did, ergo the weave clearly catalyzes and directs the electron flow without touching the target.

[XoMeltdownoX]

I haven't really been able to find this answer in the wikis unless i missed it.

 

But in simple words - is using the one power more like

 

a: "Bending" the elements as Aang of "Avatar" fame does it?

 

or

 

b. whatever it is that Goku does with his Spirit Bomb and Kamehameha?

 

 

I think I got confused because Mat's amulet blocks the power from touching him, but doesn't block the "results" of the power touching him.

 

But shouldn't lightning and fire be "the power?"

 

I'm making lightning out of thin air - which is making it with the power I would think - so therefore its a bolt of lightning power, and Rahvin shouldnt have been able to bolt Mat's ass in FoH.

 

If you can direct me to another website or a link that give this answer, it would be appreciated.

 

I can answer the lightning one. There are two types of lightning used in the story, One like the Seanchan use, direct weaves (Similiar to fireballs) which is Air and Fire I believe Eggy said, and one where the Channeler summons clouds and pull lightning from there. This isn't a direct weave more of an AOE type thing. That's what Mat hit with, and what Rand/Avi/Eggy did during the big Aiel battle. It's less draining than doing direct lightning weaves. (The books touched upon those weaves briefly in different sections.)

 

Actually this is incorrect, as I pointed out on the aMoL spoiler board. Whether the weave involves creating the lightning from scratch or utilizing existing charged electrons in the atmosphere (as Eggy/Rand/Avi did when using existing clouds), it is still an indirect weave. In both cases the channeler is using the One Power to provide the energy needed for the electrons to make the leap to ground themselves--and in the case of using existing cloud formations this is easier as the channeler has to provide less energy--but in both cases the lightning bolt--the thing that does the damage--is not being maintened directly by the Power--ergo not a direct effect in either incarnation.

 

A direct effect is if the One Power is needed to sustain the effect--a fireball, for instance, is a direct effect weave. Without the weave there to sustain it the fireball would disipate. Electrical weaves are indirect weaves--once the the Power has given the electrons energy, it need not be present for the effect to occur. Throwing a rock is much the same--once the Power has lent the rock kinetic energy, it need not be there for the effect to continue.

In either case we need the power to cause an overload of electrons at the source. The weave can certainly do this. Electricity will follow the path of least resistance. So in order to make the lightning strike exactly where the chaneller needs, the weave must touch the strike zone to make sure this is the path of least resistance for grounding of the charge. So while I agree that lightning is an effect, the weave must still touch the strike zone. If Mat were the target he is safe. If the target is an area or group of people next to him, he is toast.

 

Or funnel it in some way. Were it as simple as painting a target then the Seanchan stun gun weave--a much more localized effect--would not have worked against Mat. It did, ergo the weave clearly catalyzes and directs the electron flow without touching the target.

I understand your point, and it is a story with certain physics defying effects. When discussing electricity that is natural and not created by the power, than the laws of physics should apply.

 

Yes, I suppose by funneling the charge in a certain direction it will allow a reasonable chance of hitting the target. Assuming the funnel effect is again part of the weave that creates an area of lower resistance in the vicinity of the intended target. Still seems much easier to have the weave connect point A to point B and create a charge differential, then let nature takeover. If it were not for Mat and Cadsuane's ter'angreal I would not see an issue.

[Vardar]

Actually this is incorrect, as I pointed out on the aMoL spoiler board. Whether the weave involves creating the lightning from scratch or utilizing existing charged electrons in the atmosphere (as Eggy/Rand/Avi did when using existing clouds), it is still an indirect weave. In both cases the channeler is using the One Power to provide the energy needed for the electrons to make the leap to ground themselves--and in the case of using existing cloud formations this is easier as the channeler has to provide less energy--but in both cases the lightning bolt--the thing that does the damage--is not being maintened directly by the Power--ergo not a direct effect in either incarnation.

 

A direct effect is if the One Power is needed to sustain the effect--a fireball, for instance, is a direct effect weave. Without the weave there to sustain it the fireball would disipate. Electrical weaves are indirect weaves--once the the Power has given the electrons energy, it need not be present for the effect to occur. Throwing a rock is much the same--once the Power has lent the rock kinetic energy, it need not be there for the effect to continue.

 

If this is the case, then how did Eggy "Preset a weave and hold it to prepare to release it." If it's all about electrons and energy, as soon as the energy was created, it would charge off. The fact that she's holding something would imply that it's a direct effect. Anyway, where was this discussed? I'm curious to read the logic behind it.

 

I tend to agree with Meltdown on this point. But thanks Luckers.

[TristanWebb]

It is like tying a knot. You put all the threads in place, but you don't pull them tight. The power tends not to do anything until you put the final thread in place and let it go, otherwise setting a weave would be the same as unravelling it, once you start you have to finish or who knows what it would do. As long as you don't pull it tight you can just let it go and it won't do anything.

[Luckers]

Actually this is incorrect, as I pointed out on the aMoL spoiler board. Whether the weave involves creating the lightning from scratch or utilizing existing charged electrons in the atmosphere (as Eggy/Rand/Avi did when using existing clouds), it is still an indirect weave. In both cases the channeler is using the One Power to provide the energy needed for the electrons to make the leap to ground themselves--and in the case of using existing cloud formations this is easier as the channeler has to provide less energy--but in both cases the lightning bolt--the thing that does the damage--is not being maintened directly by the Power--ergo not a direct effect in either incarnation.

 

A direct effect is if the One Power is needed to sustain the effect--a fireball, for instance, is a direct effect weave. Without the weave there to sustain it the fireball would disipate. Electrical weaves are indirect weaves--once the the Power has given the electrons energy, it need not be present for the effect to occur. Throwing a rock is much the same--once the Power has lent the rock kinetic energy, it need not be there for the effect to continue.

 

If this is the case, then how did Eggy "Preset a weave and hold it to prepare to release it." If it's all about electrons and energy, as soon as the energy was created, it would charge off. The fact that she's holding something would imply that it's a direct effect. Anyway, where was this discussed? I'm curious to read the logic behind it.

 

I tend to agree with Meltdown on this point. But thanks Luckers.

 

To be clear, a direct effect weave (as were discussing it, in relation to an attack) is a weave where the weave must continue to be present in order to sustain the effect all the way to its target. An indirect effect weave needn't--once it's caused the effect, the effect will cascade. What you're asking is like if Egwene picked up a rock with air and simply held it, waiting for the need to throw it--throwing a rock is still an indirect weave--when it strikes the target the weave won't still be touching or influencing it. All that was done at the point of origin.

 

So yes, that Egwene 'held' it means nothing other than that she prepared the weaves to create lightning, and held them without actually setting them and causing the lightning. It changes nothing about the effect itself.