Nicola's Foretelling

[thisguy]

Yes. Because they are linked to the dragon. As his fight against Ishamael waxed and waned so did theirs. Hmmm...

hmmmm, indeed.

[Maleshub]

It seems the HoV will be in AMoL. Brandon had that foreshadowed in ToM when Mat tells Joline to tell Egwene that she has something of his. We also have RJ's reminder in KoD when Tuon mentioned the HoV to Mat during their Stones match. And in the earlier books, the prophecy was clear in that the HoV will rally the forces of the Light in Illian to battle the Shadow. Two things that have been nearly neglected over the past few books: HoV and Illian. If the forces of the Shadow win the Battle of Caemlyn, the Seanchan would be needed to help out. And the most likely spot they can converge with the Dragon's armies is in Illian.

 

I don't think RJ neglected the HoV because it was an early book plot device. He wrote all the books with the ending clear in his mind and notes. I remember reading an interview with Harriet where she said that when she cut something from RJ's drafts he would say to her, "but in book XX, this piece of information is needed" or something to that effect.

 

In a series this long there are probably quite a few dead end plot devices; but I think the HoV is not one of them.

[thisguy]

 

 

In a series this long there are probably quite a few dead end plot devices;

 

To be honest, I kinda like it. None of the major ones, so far, have been dropped. Gives it a more realistic feel. Happens in life, too.

[Tiberius]

I still think it would be nice to see Hawkwing himself tell the empire to get in line with Rand. Scene goes something like Rand asking for their help. Fortuonanana says no. Mat says "let's settle this right now". Toots on the horn, Arty appears and tells her straight up. "Dragon, kneel and ask politely. Tuon, do what he says".

[thisguy]

I still think it would be nice to see Hawkwing himself tell the empire to get in line with Rand. Scene goes something like Rand asking for their help. Fortuonanana says no. Mat says "let's settle this right now". Toots on the horn, Arty appears and tells her straight up. "Dragon, kneel and ask politely. Tuon, do what he says".

I'd actually like that, too. And, it's a possibility. The only two people we really hear speak at all from the horn are Hawkwing and Birgette. Cain a bit, too. And, it's funny that Mat's the horn sounder and the guy to marry into the seanchan. We shall see, I guess.

[Luckers]

Mind, Brandon did tell me that there are some assumptions about how the Horn works that turned out to be not the case in the notes, so I think we can expect some surprises from the Horn.

[Maleshub]

Mind, Brandon did tell me that there are some assumptions about how the Horn works that turned out to be not the case in the notes, so I think we can expect some surprises from the Horn.

 

And that might be interpreted that the HoV was not a forgotten, old plot device. It is still there; and will be there in AMoL

[Terez]

Mind, Brandon did tell me that there are some assumptions about how the Horn works that turned out to be not the case in the notes, so I think we can expect some surprises from the Horn.

 

Either that or he had some typically noobish ideas about how it worked.

[FarShainMael]

I still think it would be nice to see Hawkwing himself tell the empire to get in line with Rand. Scene goes something like Rand asking for their help. Fortuonanana says no. Mat says "let's settle this right now". Toots on the horn, Arty appears and tells her straight up. "Dragon, kneel and ask politely. Tuon, do what he says".

 

By George, I think you've got it!!

 

(oops.. just noticed the pun there.. sorry )

[demonspawn]

With regards to the Seanchan Prophecy, is there an actual quote from the prophecy or is it merely [For]Tuon[a] alluding to certain parts that she deems to be the Dragon Kneeling before the crystal throne? She could have assumed it was the Dragon Reborn because she also assumed he would be the one who sounded it.

 

I only ask because what if it is supposed to be the Sounder of the Horn (Mat) who kneels before the Crystal Throne? Thusly he could win the backing of the Seanchan and, come Tarmon Gaidon, he rides into the fray with the Seanchan and the Hundred Heroes Like the Charge of the Rohan Brigade in LotR to change the course of events.

 

Not really what I THINK or even WANT to happen. Just a kind of possible scenario. I'm only just rereading from TEotW so I only have what I've read in this thread for reference.

[FarShainMael]

AFAIK we only have Tuon's musings on the subject. I've wondered myself if the 'kneeling' requirement could be fulfilled quite literally.. eg, on hearing Mat is now First Prince of the Ravens, Rand jokingly kneels to him, ribbing him as Mat and Perrin used to make fun of his fancy clothing (way back in TGH, etc). Or, Mat actually does have a Seanchan coin, with an image of the former Empress on one side and of the Throne on the other. He drops it, it lands Throne up, Rand kneels to retrieve it.. /OT

[thisguy]

Personally, I think it has to be in front of the actual throne. I also think that may happen just because it's a part of the world we haven't seen. As to how it comes about, that's something else. But, I wouldn't be surprised if Rand does it because he's JediRand now.

[Vardar]

AFAIK we only have Tuon's musings on the subject. I've wondered myself if the 'kneeling' requirement could be fulfilled quite literally.. eg, on hearing Mat is now First Prince of the Ravens, Rand jokingly kneels to him, ribbing him as Mat and Perrin used to make fun of his fancy clothing (way back in TGH, etc). Or, Mat actually does have a Seanchan coin, with an image of the former Empress on one side and of the Throne on the other. He drops it, it lands Throne up, Rand kneels to retrieve it.. /OT

 

Yea I find it hard to fit Rand taking a trip to Seanchan, in the midst of a rebellion, and kneeling before a throne. Even with travelling, seems like it would take a huge plot twist to make it happen.

[Maleshub]

AFAIK we only have Tuon's musings on the subject. I've wondered myself if the 'kneeling' requirement could be fulfilled quite literally.. eg, on hearing Mat is now First Prince of the Ravens, Rand jokingly kneels to him, ribbing him as Mat and Perrin used to make fun of his fancy clothing (way back in TGH, etc). Or, Mat actually does have a Seanchan coin, with an image of the former Empress on one side and of the Throne on the other. He drops it, it lands Throne up, Rand kneels to retrieve it.. /OT

 

Yea I find it hard to fit Rand taking a trip to Seanchan, in the midst of a rebellion, and kneeling before a throne. Even with travelling, seems like it would take a huge plot twist to make it happen.

 

The only way Rand would kneel before the Crystal Throne is if Fortuona sends a special mission to take the Throne from Seandar and Travel it to Ebou Dar. It wouldn't even have to take up that much space. Just do it behind the scenes in the prologue or early AMoL.

[thisguy]

I think Rand's ta'avern-ness is going to be at the strongest in the last book. Who knows what will happen. The pattern's gonna be pulling them all tight and stuff.

[TootThatHorn]

AFAIK we only have Tuon's musings on the subject. I've wondered myself if the 'kneeling' requirement could be fulfilled quite literally.. eg, on hearing Mat is now First Prince of the Ravens, Rand jokingly kneels to him, ribbing him as Mat and Perrin used to make fun of his fancy clothing (way back in TGH, etc). Or, Mat actually does have a Seanchan coin, with an image of the former Empress on one side and of the Throne on the other. He drops it, it lands Throne up, Rand kneels to retrieve it.. /OT

 

Yea I find it hard to fit Rand taking a trip to Seanchan, in the midst of a rebellion, and kneeling before a throne. Even with travelling, seems like it would take a huge plot twist to make it happen.

 

The only way Rand would kneel before the Crystal Throne is if Fortuona sends a special mission to take the Throne from Seandar and Travel it to Ebou Dar. It wouldn't even have to take up that much space. Just do it behind the scenes in the prologue or early AMoL.

 

well we could have a bit of foreshadowing for this. If Avi can get a handle on her traveling, she can get them to Seanchan again and he could have an impromptu meeting with Tuon. I would not be the least bit surprised if he just strolled right up to the throne like he did going in to the white tower, and then as part of a bargain to free the wise ones and avoid the Aiel's destruction he kneels to Tuon and strikes some sort of deal. This could then fulfill what the finns told him he has to do as well.

 

I'm not convinced this would happen but it's not outside of the realm of possibility.

 

edit: Actually tossing the idea around in my head and this makes a lot of sense to me.

[Luckers]

AFAIK we only have Tuon's musings on the subject. I've wondered myself if the 'kneeling' requirement could be fulfilled quite literally.. eg, on hearing Mat is now First Prince of the Ravens, Rand jokingly kneels to him, ribbing him as Mat and Perrin used to make fun of his fancy clothing (way back in TGH, etc). Or, Mat actually does have a Seanchan coin, with an image of the former Empress on one side and of the Throne on the other. He drops it, it lands Throne up, Rand kneels to retrieve it.. /OT

 

Yea I find it hard to fit Rand taking a trip to Seanchan, in the midst of a rebellion, and kneeling before a throne. Even with travelling, seems like it would take a huge plot twist to make it happen.

 

And RJ stated that the main sequence novels would never return to Seanchan.

[Vardar]

AFAIK we only have Tuon's musings on the subject. I've wondered myself if the 'kneeling' requirement could be fulfilled quite literally.. eg, on hearing Mat is now First Prince of the Ravens, Rand jokingly kneels to him, ribbing him as Mat and Perrin used to make fun of his fancy clothing (way back in TGH, etc). Or, Mat actually does have a Seanchan coin, with an image of the former Empress on one side and of the Throne on the other. He drops it, it lands Throne up, Rand kneels to retrieve it.. /OT

 

Yea I find it hard to fit Rand taking a trip to Seanchan, in the midst of a rebellion, and kneeling before a throne. Even with travelling, seems like it would take a huge plot twist to make it happen.

 

And RJ stated that the main sequence novels would never return to Seanchan.

 

Thanks Lucks!

 

So maybe this twisting of the prophsey was set up by Isshy.

[Luckers]

AFAIK we only have Tuon's musings on the subject. I've wondered myself if the 'kneeling' requirement could be fulfilled quite literally.. eg, on hearing Mat is now First Prince of the Ravens, Rand jokingly kneels to him, ribbing him as Mat and Perrin used to make fun of his fancy clothing (way back in TGH, etc). Or, Mat actually does have a Seanchan coin, with an image of the former Empress on one side and of the Throne on the other. He drops it, it lands Throne up, Rand kneels to retrieve it.. /OT

 

Yea I find it hard to fit Rand taking a trip to Seanchan, in the midst of a rebellion, and kneeling before a throne. Even with travelling, seems like it would take a huge plot twist to make it happen.

 

And RJ stated that the main sequence novels would never return to Seanchan.

 

Thanks Lucks!

 

So maybe this twisting of the prophsey was set up by Isshy.

 

My take on this: http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/51171-seanchan-prophecy/

[TootThatHorn]

AFAIK we only have Tuon's musings on the subject. I've wondered myself if the 'kneeling' requirement could be fulfilled quite literally.. eg, on hearing Mat is now First Prince of the Ravens, Rand jokingly kneels to him, ribbing him as Mat and Perrin used to make fun of his fancy clothing (way back in TGH, etc). Or, Mat actually does have a Seanchan coin, with an image of the former Empress on one side and of the Throne on the other. He drops it, it lands Throne up, Rand kneels to retrieve it.. /OT

 

Yea I find it hard to fit Rand taking a trip to Seanchan, in the midst of a rebellion, and kneeling before a throne. Even with travelling, seems like it would take a huge plot twist to make it happen.

 

And RJ stated that the main sequence novels would never return to Seanchan.

 

Well I had fun with my mini theory till this lol but this is good to know because ive wondered about it. but what does this mean about the red sailed boats?

[Terez]

AFAIK we only have Tuon's musings on the subject. I've wondered myself if the 'kneeling' requirement could be fulfilled quite literally.. eg, on hearing Mat is now First Prince of the Ravens, Rand jokingly kneels to him, ribbing him as Mat and Perrin used to make fun of his fancy clothing (way back in TGH, etc). Or, Mat actually does have a Seanchan coin, with an image of the former Empress on one side and of the Throne on the other. He drops it, it lands Throne up, Rand kneels to retrieve it.. /OT

 

Yea I find it hard to fit Rand taking a trip to Seanchan, in the midst of a rebellion, and kneeling before a throne. Even with travelling, seems like it would take a huge plot twist to make it happen.

 

And RJ stated that the main sequence novels would never return to Seanchan.

 

Technically he always allowed for a brief trip similar to Aviendha's and Rand's trip in TFOH.

[FarShainMael]

PS:

 

Found the reference for that Seanchan coin: it's in WH18:

 

One of the Seanchan, a buzzard-faced woman in red-and-blue armour, enjoyed the show so much that she tossed him a fat silver coin with strange markings, a forbidding woman's face on one side and some sort of heavy chair on the other.