Channeler to Soldier Ratio

[Vardar]

It just seems far fetched that they wouldn't get the obvious truth, that's all.

 

Thing is, there is no reason it would be obvious to the Seanchan. It is only obvious to the reader because we know it to be true.

 

The Seanchan don't know about sparkers and people who can be taught.

 

As far as they know, damane (sparkers) start channeling the One Power.

 

Sul'dam (non-sparkers) can use the leash, but never channel.

 

Why would they think that they could be taught to channel?

 

As far as they are concerned, they don't even know such a thing is possible. The only channellers they know of are sparkers. They know nothing about the White Tower and other societies teaching people who are not sparkers to access the OP.

 

There would be no reason for anyone to attempt it, because any Seanchan would avoid the OP like the plague. Those that supposedly see weaves after being sul'dam for so long would not be inclined to even contemplate they can also channel like damane. Why would they? No, better to say it is just a side effect.

 

And why would anyone doubt their word? After all, they do not suddenly start channelling.

 

What is obvious to us readers is something the Seanchan, for hundreds of years, did not even know was possible. Why would the suspect something that hasn't happened ever in the records, and something that is, for all intents and purposes, impossible to them?

 

Well ignoring the late sparker debate (Which never occured to me and is even more evidence in the Seanchan figuring it out in my book) my entire point was they should figure out there has to be a reason for Suldam to breed so many Damae, as compared to the rest of the population. It wouldn't take knowledge of how channeling works or anything. Someone, a lot of someone's really, should have noticed that Suldam's (Especially if they live together in communities which is possible) for some unknown reason produce a lot of Damae and Men who can Channel and thus go mad (the male sparkers). Even in Randland, being a male relative of a male channeler is enough to get you looked at funny, imagine if you had multiple male relatives. You're not seeing the connection people would make?

[Barid Bel Medar]

You overestimate the frequency of channellers being born, I believe. While it may be that channellers breed channellers more frequently, it is not a big percentage, nor noticeable.

The chances of sul'dam having a family full of channellers is still slim, just more probable than anyone else.

It isn't like every child a sul'dam gives birth to is a channeller.

 

One also has to take into account that only Sparkers are damane, traditionally. (possibly non-sparkers who learned under unique circumstances)

Even if the sul'dam has a channelling compatible child, the odds are that they would be a non-sparker in any case.

 

Multiple male relatives? Even for two channellers having children that would be highly unlikely. I doubt that this has even happened. Certainly not at a frequent enough rate to raise suspicions. First off the chances are that the male relative, if he can channel, will be a non-sparker, so they wouldn't even know he could channel in any case. Second male sparkers are extremely rare, even in Seanchan, and those that are sparkers would 3/4 (by Moiraine's estimate) die horribly from the reactions to touching the TS. The Seanchan wouldn't know that they were channellers (in general), just that they died horribly. They might suspect disease etc.. So only 1/4 of the minute percentage of sparkers would actually be recognized as being able to channel.

 

As mentioned, they already know that there is a link between damane and sul'dam. They know they have similar abilities, that is nothing strange.

What they don't know is that sul'dam can be taught to channel. Something they don't even know CAN happen.

There is no mystery, no suspicion. They are aware of A connection between the two. They just don't know exactly WHAT it is.

 

The main point here is that there is no way the Seanchan can be expected to jump to the conclusion that sul'dam = can be taught to channel. This is something that for hundreds of years has not even been possible, why would they think of it? It doesn't make sense.

 

It would be like telling your GP you have a sore throat, and them jumping to the conclusion that it is bowel cancer. Despite the fact that several other symptoms are always there, not just a sore throat.

 

Yes, it may be that you get a sore throat at one point from effects of bowel cancer (honestly, I don't know if this is true, just an example off the top of my head), however other symptoms need to be present (in this case, active channeling). So to make the leap in logic from one to the other is not easy, nor should it have happened.

[TristanWebb]

But you have no basis in the literature to say that they breed signifigantly more than any others. If 1 in a 100 children is a sparker in the general population, and 1.2 is a sparker in the sul'dam population, would that be noticed? There is no evidence that the sparker rate in from a channelling population is high enough to be noticable without comprehensive statistical analysis.

[Vardar]

You overestimate the frequency of channellers being born, I believe. While it may be that channellers breed channellers more frequently, it is not a big percentage, nor noticeable.

The chances of sul'dam having a family full of channellers is still slim, just more probable than anyone else.

It isn't like every child a sul'dam gives birth to is a channeller.

 

One also has to take into account that only Sparkers are damane, traditionally. (possibly non-sparkers who learned under unique circumstances)

Even if the sul'dam has a channelling compatible child, the odds are that they would be a non-sparker in any case.

 

Multiple male relatives? Even for two channellers having children that would be highly unlikely. I doubt that this has even happened. Certainly not at a frequent enough rate to raise suspicions. First off the chances are that the male relative, if he can channel, will be a non-sparker, so they wouldn't even know he could channel in any case. Second male sparkers are extremely rare, even in Seanchan, and those that are sparkers would 3/4 (by Moiraine's estimate) die horribly from the reactions to touching the TS. The Seanchan wouldn't know that they were channellers (in general), just that they died horribly. They might suspect disease etc.. So only 1/4 of the minute percentage of sparkers would actually be recognized as being able to channel.

 

As mentioned, they already know that there is a link between damane and sul'dam. They know they have similar abilities, that is nothing strange.

What they don't know is that sul'dam can be taught to channel. Something they don't even know CAN happen.

There is no mystery, no suspicion. They are aware of A connection between the two. They just don't know exactly WHAT it is.

 

The main point here is that there is no way the Seanchan can be expected to jump to the conclusion that sul'dam = can be taught to channel. This is something that for hundreds of years has not even been possible, why would they think of it? It doesn't make sense.

 

It would be like telling your GP you have a sore throat, and them jumping to the conclusion that it is bowel cancer. Despite the fact that several other symptoms are always there, not just a sore throat.

 

Yes, it may be that you get a sore throat at one point from effects of bowel cancer (honestly, I don't know if this is true, just an example off the top of my head), however other symptoms need to be present (in this case, active channeling). So to make the leap in logic from one to the other is not easy, nor should it have happened.

 

No that was the entire argument!

 

We were discussing how the gene is transferred to the offspring, and if you can cull out the gene successfully by removing men sparkers, as well as female sparkers and a portion of female non-sparkers, that implies that those persons have a higher chance to give birth to channelers, thus meaning the gene is heriditary (Although evidence suggests it isn't). So if it is passed down like that, it would reason to assume that in a world where Suldam were highly respected members of society, it could be reasoned they may live together in communities, hence our debate of why someone wouldn't notice they have more blah blah blah back to where we are.

 

Someone is lost here. It may be me. Cow and Bel, are we discussing the same thing?

 

@ Cow: If you're able to cull the gene out, it has to mean those who can channel would have a significantly higher chance of giving birth to channelers themselves, and thus have more sparkers. (Even if the gene is passed down thru channelers and non channelers, the higher chance would still be noticible)

[Vardar]

It would be like telling your GP you have a sore throat, and them jumping to the conclusion that it is bowel cancer. Despite the fact that several other symptoms are always there, not just a sore throat.

 

Yes, it may be that you get a sore throat at one point from effects of bowel cancer (honestly, I don't know if this is true, just an example off the top of my head), however other symptoms need to be present (in this case, active channeling). So to make the leap in logic from one to the other is not easy, nor should it have happened.

 

What's a GP? (I'm assuming General Practicioner perhaps).

 

Regardless that's a horrible analogy! I'm trying to think of an apt one, but I can't find one that would directly correlate, except red headed people in Ireland, however I can't work in the logical step conclusion part. The problem with your analogy is it only contains 2 subjects or what-not. If I have a Blank, then maybe I have Blank.

 

I'll keep thinking, but it's kinda complicated to come up with an analogy to match this.

[Vardar]

Here:

Ok, I’ll just lay out the facts being discussed here for ease of understanding:

RJ made a statement that it is possible to cull the channeling gene out of a given population. This is shown by Randland only has about a 1% chance to produce a channeler vs the 5% chance in the AOL which the Seanchan have a 3% chance because the Suldam stay in the breeding population.

Now we were discussing how this means that either A) The Channeling gene is passed on only by people who can channel (Whether they actively do it or not is moot)of B) The Channeling gene is passed on by all humans but those who can channel have a much higher chance than those who don’t. This is proven by RJ’s statements.

Now this makes no sense to me because

1. Even removing Female sparkers from the equation, the male sparkers who are ultimately caught and killed would have likely bred already, meaning their gene is passed on,
   
2. Male non sparkers (Except those who choose to try channeling) are in the gene pool, in theory in equal numbers as the females who don’t spark (Same as Suldams)
   
3. AS only take nonsparkers who come to them, implying the majority of non-sparkers never come near the tower, as further proved by Eggy’s successful gathering of a huge number of novices.
   

 

So it seems that since sparkers are a minor portion of those who can channel, the majority of those who can pass the gene on would remain in the gene pool. The VAST majority would

 

This lead to further discussion of the Seanchan and how they kept their numbers high due to keeping the Suldam in the population. And the idea that as a member of a group who spent unusually high amounts of time together, along with the fact that they were “privileged” members of a society, odds are high that Suldam would form colonies of some sort to live together. And since we know they remain in the breeding pool, it stands to reason their families would live there too, or at least be known among the aforementioned colony. So, since channelers have a higher chance of producing channelers (By RJ’s statement) those colonies would produce a higher number of both Suldam and Damae. Not to mention male sparkers.

 

And that catches us up to now.

[TristanWebb]

Over three thousand years with channelers berely having children in Randland, the occurrence of channeler births dropped from 5% to 3%. I believe those are the numbers stated by RJ, I know the reduction was around 2-3%. This says that the birthrate to non channelers is fairly high in relation to channelers. The ratio of sparker births from non-channelers to sparker births from learners is what is in question. I find it unlikely that the difference would be high at all, extremely unlikely that it would be high enough for the general public to notice.

 

Though now that I think of it, if the general population has a baseline 3% chance of producing a channeler, then the 5% of the population that can channel has to produce enough to make up for the extra 2% don't they? Drop out 50% for the males and twenty for the sparkers, it means that 2% of the population makes an extra .75%. My mathis is probably off and genetics probably doesn't work that way, but if it did, it would mean that for every damane born to a non channeler, 1.75 would be born to a suldam. That does seem high enough to be noticeable by someone who keeps reasonably detailed records.

 

NB: I am sick and can't sleep and trying to do maths in my head ATM, if it is wrong please correct me, also anyone who knows more about genetics than 'you put the long thing in a hole and wait a while for a baby to come out' feel free to respond.

[Vardar]

Over three thousand years with channelers berely having children in Randland, the occurrence of channeler births dropped from 5% to 3%. I believe those are the numbers stated by RJ, I know the reduction was around 2-3%. This says that the birthrate to non channelers is fairly high in relation to channelers. The ratio of sparker births from non-channelers to sparker births from learners is what is in question. I find it unlikely that the difference would be high at all, extremely unlikely that it would be high enough for the general public to notice.

 

Though now that I think of it, if the general population has a baseline 3% chance of producing a channeler, then the 5% of the population that can channel has to produce enough to make up for the extra 2% don't they? Drop out 50% for the males and twenty for the sparkers, it means that 2% of the population makes an extra .75%. My mathis is probably off and genetics probably doesn't work that way, but if it did, it would mean that for every damane born to a non channeler, 1.75 would be born to a suldam. That does seem high enough to be noticeable by someone who keeps reasonably detailed records.

 

NB: I am sick and can't sleep and trying to do maths in my head ATM, if it is wrong please correct me, also anyone who knows more about genetics than 'you put the long thing in a hole and wait a while for a baby to come out' feel free to respond.

 

But most channelers are still having children. So there shouldn't even be a noticible drop. Only female sparkers (and not all of them) stopped having them. All wilders wil blocks can still have them, Men before gentling can. So it just doesn't add up.

 

As to the genetic portion, it's totally skewed. But if being able to channel gave you a higher chance, and it was that "type" of gene, the fact that it can be culled out would imply that's a much much greater chance, and normal humans would have near 1% chance (Or somewhere near where the current population is now).

 

While I did ace genetics a decade ago, and was forced to tutor half the class, I am by no means an expert. But I can tell you that culling would not have worked like they think it did, the more logical conclusion is Most channelers in Randland have no idea they can channel and are clueless, or that the Sparking occurance is a separate gene and that is passed on by channelers, thus you can cull that out. But it would have to be separate.

[Barid Bel Medar]

What is missing from the original conversation about genetics is channelling is NOT FULLY a genetic thing. It is also a soul trait.

 

There are only so many souls that can channel, taking an average from the AoL, it might be 3-5% of all souls have the ability to channel.

 

Just because a channeller has the genes, it is not that the genes are passed on and make the child a channeller, it is that these genes make it more likely for a channelling soul to be born.

 

The difference is that despite genetics, there is only a small number of channelling souls available. It doesn't matter if both parents have channelling genes, if there are few channelling souls available, you still get a small number.

 

My example was meant to be horrible, because that is exactly what it is. The ONLY similarity Seanchan know of the sul'dam and damane is that they can both use a leash. Damane are the only ones that can be leashed.

 

With the exception of those sul'dam who have worked for long periods with damane. At which point they are not tested to be damane, and I am pretty sure none of them would randomly try and leash themselves out of curiosity.

 

The rate of sul'dam children being channellers is very few, not noticeable, thus there is only one similarity that links them, one that they already know of and think they have the answer for.

 

To go from there and say that sul'dam actually just haven't touched the OP yet is not impossible, but it is far from likely to happen.

[Luckers]

Guys it was 3% in the Age of Legends, and 1% now with the Seanchand and Sharans having slightly higher odds than the 1%.

 

Hmm... I wonder if Randland will ever have and Occupy Tar Valon.

[Vardar]

What is missing from the original conversation about genetics is channelling is NOT FULLY a genetic thing. It is also a soul trait.

 

There are only so many souls that can channel, taking an average from the AoL, it might be 3-5% of all souls have the ability to channel.

 

Just because a channeller has the genes, it is not that the genes are passed on and make the child a channeller, it is that these genes make it more likely for a channelling soul to be born.

 

The difference is that despite genetics, there is only a small number of channelling souls available. It doesn't matter if both parents have channelling genes, if there are few channelling souls available, you still get a small number.

 

My example was meant to be horrible, because that is exactly what it is. It is outrageous to suggest such a leap in logic is obvious. The ONLY similarity Seanchan know of the sul'dam and damane is that they can both use a leash. Damane are the only ones that can be leashed.

 

With the exception of those sul'dam who have worked for long periods with damane. At which point they are not tested to be damane, and I am pretty sure none of them would randomly try and leash themselves out of curiosity.

 

The rate of sul'dam children being channellers is very few, not noticeable, thus there is only one similarity that links them, one that they already know of and think they have the answer for.

 

To go from there and say that sul'dam actually just haven't touched the OP yet is not impossible, but it is far from likely to happen.

 

No one answered this earlier when I asked, is that meant to imply that there are only a set number of souls in this universe? I.e. no new souls are ever created? If everyone decided to get kinky for a few generations, would people just stop having children once they reached a magic number?

 

Guys it was 3% in the Age of Legends, and 1% now with the Seanchand and Sharans having slightly higher odds than the 1%.

 

Hmm... I wonder if Randland will ever have and Occupy Tar Valon.

 

The numbers aren't the important part oddly enough, just the idea behind it, however thanks for the correction.

 

And oh god, I just got that joke...

 

Hang your head in shame good sir! IN SHAME!

[Barid Bel Medar]

 

 

No one answered this earlier when I asked, is that meant to imply that there are only a set number of souls in this universe? I.e. no new souls are ever created? If everyone decided to get kinky for a few generations, would people just stop having children once they reached a magic number?

 

 

 

I think so. However there is no answer as of yet.

 

Everyone is reborn and such, the wheel turns endlessly. New souls being created doesn't fit with that.

 

I suppose that once the soul pool was used up, no more children would be born, but i see this as similar to the TS.

 

The TS is finite, but reusable.

 

However, on a human scale, the amount of OP (or souls) cannot possibly be held all at once, not even with 1000 Chodean Kal's.

 

Similarly, the amount of souls in the soul pool would be too great, that it would be impossible to have them all living at one point.

[Vardar]

No one answered this earlier when I asked, is that meant to imply that there are only a set number of souls in this universe? I.e. no new souls are ever created? If everyone decided to get kinky for a few generations, would people just stop having children once they reached a magic number?

 

 

 

I think so. However there is no answer as of yet.

 

Everyone is reborn and such, the wheel turns endlessly. New souls being created doesn't fit with that.

 

I suppose that once the soul pool was used up, no more children would be born, but i see this as similar to the TS.

 

The TS is finite, but reusable.

 

However, on a human scale, the amount of OP (or souls) cannot possibly be held all at once, not even with 1000 Chodean Kal's.

 

Similarly, the amount of souls in the soul pool would be too great, that it would be impossible to have them all living at one point.

 

While I get the amount of OP not being held at once, mass population growth isn't impossible, in other words, if there is a number, it would be possible to reach it. Just not probable.

 

But then, if there are no new souls, what the hell happens when a soul is removed forever, there should be a correlation. And what's Isam now? (Just thoughts)

[Barid Bel Medar]

Well, fair enough, it would be possible, but lets say that the earth would be unable to sustain such vast numbers. I also suspect that the Pattern wouldn't allow that to happen. It would spit out a few ta'veren and plague half the world or something similar.

 

The question you raise is a good one. Grey Men souls are "eaten" by the DO, basically destroyed. In small numbers, yeah, but how would it impact the wheel if it happened on a large scale? Or what if Rand's soul was devoured similarly?

 

No idea about Slayer, we know relatively little about the soul aspect of Luc/Isam to say. Interesting that Perrin always comments that he smells wrong, perhaps not soulless, but something similar.

 

No idea of the answers though.

[Vardar]

Well, fair enough, it would be possible, but lets say that the earth would be unable to sustain such vast numbers. I also suspect that the Pattern wouldn't allow that to happen. It would spit out a few ta'veren and plague half the world or something similar.

 

The question you raise is a good one. Grey Men souls are "eaten" by the DO, basically destroyed. In small numbers, yeah, but how would it impact the wheel if it happened on a large scale? Or what if Rand's soul was devoured similarly?

 

No idea about Slayer, we know relatively little about the soul aspect of Luc/Isam to say. Interesting that Perrin always comments that he smells wrong, perhaps not soulless, but something similar.

 

No idea of the answers though.

 

Oh yea, that just made me think of other souls (I forgot grey men), Isam, Modread (What Fain has become), and do Trollocs have souls?

[Barid Bel Medar]

Trolloc's do have souls, according to RJ.

 

Not sure about other Shadowspawn. I think your regular Myrddraal, Drakghar and darkhounds do, but not sure about the Gholam or any others.

 

Fain, I believe, still has a soul. He has both Mordeth and Fain in him. But no proof of that.

 

It is also interesting that apparently Machin Shin takes the souls of its prey and adds them to itself.

[Vardar]

Trolloc's do have souls, according to RJ.

 

Not sure about other Shadowspawn. I think your regular Myrddraal, Drakghar and darkhounds do, but not sure about the Gholam or any others.

 

Fain, I believe, still has a soul. He has both Mordeth and Fain in him. But no proof of that.

 

It is also interesting that apparently Machin Shin takes the souls of its prey and adds them to itself.

 

Hmmmm. More interesting tidbits.

 

wonder if being stilled lasts thru rebirth? But anyway, even with the gene and soul thing, it still points towards it not being cullable (That's so not a word is it)

[Wandering Channeler]

The soul talk is very interesting. If you think about a cloth maker, and take the wheel, pattern, thread approach with the wheel being the world, the threads being the people in that world, and the pattern being what happens in that world then the pool of souls not currently in the world would be the extra threads waiting to be put into the cloth maker. The Creator is the person working the machine. If things caused threads to be destroyed would the Creator not get/make more thread to be waiting in the thread pile/soul pool to be put into the cloth maker?

[Suttree]

Trolloc's do have souls, according to RJ.

 

Although he did add they are so reduced that they hardly count as such.

[Sharaman]

Jains, HIndus and Buddhists (mainstream religions that believe in reincarnation) get around this by "allowing" souls to migrate to animals.

The Jataka (legends pertaining to the multiple births of Siddhartha Gautama Buddha) centres on various animals that did good karma, etc, because they had the Buddha soul.

This is one way to "solve" the limited number of souls problem. RJ placed a gender restriction but he never explicitly placed a species restriction (though trollocs have tiny souls implying humans can't transmigrate into trollocs).

Maybe humans can be reborn as wolves, horses or roaches?

.

[Mr Ares]

Here's what I mean.

Take a million women.

Say, about 10,000 will be power-capable (I'm assuming 1% of the population is spread evenly across gender - that is 1% of men and 1% of women can channel. Change the ratio and assume 5,000 if you don't think so)

Perhaps 2000-3000 will be sparkers (damane) and 7000-8000 will be sul'dam.

For example let's say it's split 3000 damane and 7000 non-damane. (Again you can take any ratio you like, remembering that sul'dam outnumber damane considerably)

 

You start testing this lot with the leash at say age 13.

First few years, you get nothing, or almost nothing. Say one Alivia and one Talaan.

Between the time they're 16-22, you catch 2500 damane (normal early sparkers) and identify 6500 sul'dam.

 

You continue testing and you start training sul'dam from this cohort,

Between 23-25, you catch 500 late sparkers, identify another 500 sul'dam, and discover that 10 sul'dam in training are also held.

(This assumes that late sparkers would not show up as sul'dam the year before they sparked. If they did, the connect would be blindingly obvious. So let's assume for the sake of seamless plotting that they don't.)

You note that for some reason, some sul'dam (very few as a percent but some) seem to be held by the leash.

 

You are repeating this testing over centuries and over multiple cohorts of millions of women of different ages and keeping meticulous records.

You note that there's always a small number of older sul'dams (nearly 25-year-old) being held for each cohort you test.

You also note that there are always a small cohort of older non-sul'dam being held. Even if you note the number of older sul'dam as being higher than the statistical average it doesn't lead to any obviously sinister conclusion. If you consider sul'dam and damane to be separate but related conditions, with the possibility of both arising in the same person, and those with both conditions tend to show as damane later than is normal, why not simply conclude that being a sul'dam can delay the onset of channeling? There's no reason to conclude that being a sul'dam for a prolonged period causes one to be a marath'damane.

 

The point(s).

Given this knowledge, your empire is hardly going to collapse if you find 3 older suldams are damane.

Also, at an anecdotal level, the knowledge would be widespread.

The Seanchan "ministry of testing and census taking" would contain many individuals who had come across this situation.

It would be something that wasn't necessarily talked about, but not a closely-heldsecret.

Hence the shock and horror expressed by the Seanchan when they "discover" this is strange

And the assumption by WoTlanders that this "secret will destroy Seanchan is hardly justified.

The problem that older sul'dam being held presents is that either it demonstrates a weakness in the testing process, or it demonstrates that being a sul'dam is corrupting - either way, the problem is the same. The Seanchan consider damane to be animals, who need to be leashed for the protection of everyone. Now add in the knowledge that for the last thousand years, animals have been slipping the net and nobody has noticed. Indeed, many of them hold positions of honour in Seanchan society. That right there undermines the very reason for leashing damane in the first place. What if things like the Breaking and the Armies of the Night are not evidence of some problem inherent in the nature of being a channeler that requires they be controlled because they cannot control themselves. The Westlands themselves further undermine the Seanchan position - sure, the AS are manipulative, but they are rather more restrained than the Seanchan AS were. And then we have the Kin - women who keep their heads down, who aren't animals, not manipulative, not controlling, who fit in with and help society. The Seanchan position that channelers are animals who need to be controlled is unsustainable in the face of the knowledge that they have been letting some of those same animals wander free for the last thousand years and not even noticed.

 

As to the culling of channelers from the gene pool, I would imagine that the War of the Power and the Breaking subsequently would have removed a very significant number of channelers (and carriers of the gene) from the gene pool, and that the continuing removal of both male and female channelers from the gene pool will hamper the spread of the gene. Further, even if a man only sparks after he has bred, if those children are considered less desirable as mates thereafter it does increase the chances of those genes not going any further. Perhaps not an entirely satisfactory answer as to why channeler numbers are so much lower, but a little better.

[Sharaman]

GIven the testing process in Seanchan and the numbers and time periods involved, it's unlikely that the issue is unknown.

[Lisa Campbell]

This thread has made me wonder...

 

First off, I believe that the text says that culling the ability to channel is a theory of the Whites, expressed by Verin (? or Moiraine) to the supergirls. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

Secondly, my question:

 

Could Ishamael have had something to do with the White Tower's depleted numbers? That is, in concert with his actions in Seanchan, could he have had something to do with the Aes Sedai pretty much only looking for girls who can learn and their disdain for Wilders (sparkers)? The reason for this question is that sparkers are generally stronger in the Power and the Shadow would be happier with only 1/4 of that potential to face? We already know that some of Ishamael's plans spanned eons, why not this? The numbers (and their potentials) of new initiates Egwene has brought in indicates this to me, even though I have only thought of it just now.

[Vardar]

This thread has made me wonder...

 

First off, I believe that the text says that culling the ability to channel is a theory of the Whites, expressed by Verin (? or Moiraine) to the supergirls. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

Secondly, my question:

 

Could Ishamael have had something to do with the White Tower's depleted numbers? That is, in concert with his actions in Seanchan, could he have had something to do with the Aes Sedai pretty much only looking for girls who can learn and their disdain for Wilders (sparkers)? The reason for this question is that sparkers are generally stronger in the Power and the Shadow would be happier with only 1/4 of that potential to face? We already know that some of Ishamael's plans spanned eons, why not this? The numbers (and their potentials) of new initiates Egwene has brought in indicates this to me, even though I have only thought of it just now.

 

1) RJ confirmed it. Lucker provided the quote somewhere back there.

 

2) Interesting question!

 

Further, even if a man only sparks after he has bred, if those children are considered less desirable as mates thereafter it does increase the chances of those genes not going any further. Perhaps not an entirely satisfactory answer as to why channeler numbers are so much lower, but a little better.

 

In theory, still wouldn't be enough to hamper the gene pool noticibly considering one fact: Only sparkers are being removed, and they're a small percentage of the total population. (Was it 5% or something like that?). So 95% of the people are left in the gene pool.

 

That being said, the war of power makes sense.

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Secondly, my question:

 

Could Ishamael have had something to do with the White Tower's depleted numbers? That is, in concert with his actions in Seanchan, could he have had something to do with the Aes Sedai pretty much only looking for girls who can learn and their disdain for Wilders (sparkers)? The reason for this question is that sparkers are generally stronger in the Power and the Shadow would be happier with only 1/4 of that potential to face? We already know that some of Ishamael's plans spanned eons, why not this? The numbers (and their potentials) of new initiates Egwene has brought in indicates this to me, even though I have only thought of it just now.

 

Didn't he whisper in Artur Hawkwing's ear? Was this "whisper" the reason behind Hawkwing's turning against Aes Sedai and proclaiming a bounty of 1000 crowns for each Aes Sedai head?