Channeler to Soldier Ratio

[Vardar]

Wow. That kinda made sense. Although the soul pool thing + Genetics kinda really throws off the whole culling idea, because if Souls and Genetics mattered both, then the amount of channelers would eventually increase beyond the 3% regardless of culling. Unless the amount of souls ot be reborn at anytime is standard and does not increase (But can decrease due to balefire). If new souls can be created, then culling wouldn't work. If new souls can't be created, then it wouldn't work.

 

More and more questions!

[Vardar]

Aiel Wise Ones numbers are not really a good indication of battle potential. Aiel don't put too much emphasis on power strength. Maybe a couple of thousand of those are Morgase level channeling ability.

 

I was under the impression that the wise ones were more useful at dumei's well than the aes sedai even once the "must be in danger" clause was met. Did I take this incorrectly?

 

Nice breakdown Barid.

 

 

No. The AS held off many times their number in Wise Ones with ease. Now is this because the WO were still hesitant or not, we don't know. And the WO who came with Perrin managed to kick butt because they were a surprise attack. They were sitll outnumbered.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Wow. That kinda made sense. Although the soul pool thing + Genetics kinda really throws off the whole culling idea, because if Souls and Genetics mattered both, then the amount of channelers would eventually increase beyond the 3% regardless of culling. Unless the amount of souls ot be reborn at anytime is standard and does not increase (But can decrease due to balefire). If new souls can be created, then culling wouldn't work. If new souls can't be created, then it wouldn't work.

 

More and more questions!

 

That is what I was trying to get at, I think you are right in an overall sense. The culling did happen, but it didn't matter on a cosmic level, as eventually the number of channelers have to increase as said.

 

The period between the Breaking and New Spring (I will use Rand's birth as the first step to the Last Battle.) was a period where channelers and talents were scarce. Which was something the Pattern intended, I believe, so that there would be a better chance at the Last Battle.

 

Kinda like the moon and it's phases.

[Vardar]

Wow. That kinda made sense. Although the soul pool thing + Genetics kinda really throws off the whole culling idea, because if Souls and Genetics mattered both, then the amount of channelers would eventually increase beyond the 3% regardless of culling. Unless the amount of souls ot be reborn at anytime is standard and does not increase (But can decrease due to balefire). If new souls can be created, then culling wouldn't work. If new souls can't be created, then it wouldn't work.

 

More and more questions!

 

That is what I was trying to get at, I think you are right in an overall sense. The culling did happen, but it didn't matter on a cosmic level, as eventually the number of channelers have to increase as said.

 

The period between the Breaking and New Spring (I will use Rand's birth as the first step to the Last Battle.) was a period where channelers and talents were scarce. Which was something the Pattern intended, I believe, so that there would be a better chance at the Last Battle.

 

Kinda like the moon and it's phases.

 

Ok, I thought that's what you were getting at. So that makes sense. Thanks for the quotes btw.

[Luckers]

Anyway, the number of channelers would be 3-5% of the current population. And of those a smaller percentage would be sparkers, meaning in this day in age it wouldn't be uncommon for a large percentage of that 3-5% to not even know they could channel (with the exception of the wise ones and to a lesser the Seanchan since there nonsparkers can't technically channel).

 

 

Side note the second, Vardamus, on 1% of the modern population can channel (though this is slightly higher in both Shara and Seanchan). In the Age of Legends 3% could channel.

 

Damn really? When did it drop so low? See that's where I'm confused, if channeling isn't heriditary, how can you cull it out? (I recall the debate about it not definetly being heriditary, and the Trollocs and Myrdall support that since no Myr breed yet the trollocs keep the gene active).

 

Between the Age of Legends and now. RJ stated the decline was due to men being gentled, and Aes Sedai and Kin maintaining policies against marriage and having children, and that this was why it hasn't declined as far amongst the Seanchan and Sharans, because the sul'dam and Ayyad remain in the gene pool. The argument doesn't make much sense--given 1% can channel we know the VAST majority of female channelers in the Westlands go no where near the Tower, and thus remain in the gene pool. For that matter so do the vast majority of men, and even amongst male sparkers the spark usually doesn't come out until into the twenties, which in the era at hand would mean most men would already have a family by the time they sparked, and would thus also remain in the gene pool.

 

The Sharans, who breed Ayyad to Ayyad, makes sense, but realistically there should be little difference between the Westlands and the Seanchan (although I suppose there may be a social influence there--the children of sul'dam are likely to move in similar circles, and thus breed together leaving better odds of passing on the gene).

 

Frankly, it would make a better argument to say that it was the lack of inter-breeding between male and female channelers (which would have been the norm in the Age of Legends, both because of the 'moving in the same circles' social element, and the longevity/equality of power issue that would make picking a non-Aes Sedai mate potentially end in tragedy) that caused this, but RJ was very clear about the culling element, so I'm arguing with the Word of God here.

 

But yes, 3% in the Age of Legends, down to 1% now.

[Maleshub]

Aiel Wise Ones numbers are not really a good indication of battle potential. Aiel don't put too much emphasis on power strength. Maybe a couple of thousand of those are Morgase level channeling ability.

 

I was under the impression that the wise ones were more useful at dumei's well than the aes sedai even once the "must be in danger" clause was met. Did I take this incorrectly?

 

Nice breakdown Barid.

 

 

No. The AS held off many times their number in Wise Ones with ease. Now is this because the WO were still hesitant or not, we don't know. And the WO who came with Perrin managed to kick butt because they were a surprise attack. They were sitll outnumbered.

 

You can blame Sevanna's insanely stupid battle plan (and it doesn't make sense that she is that ignorant of battles) for many things. With 15K Shaido, most of them standing still and twiddling their thumbs; Wise Ones could have been inactive too.

 

15K Shaido and 400 Wise Ones with them should have reached Rand and taken him before Perrin and the Ashaman arrived. Gawyn Trakand and his Younglings should have been a footnote in the series. But the Shaido suddenly forgot how to fight a battle at 30:1 odds in their favor!!!!!!

[Suttree]

15K Shaido and 400 Wise Ones with them should have reached Rand and taken him before Perrin and the Ashaman arrived. Gawyn Trakand and his Younglings should have been a footnote in the series. But the Shaido suddenly forgot how to fight a battle at 30:1 odds in their favor!!!!!!

 

The WOs had never used the OP to fight before and this is one of the examples of AS acquitting themselves well in battle.

[Maleshub]

15K Shaido and 400 Wise Ones with them should have reached Rand and taken him before Perrin and the Ashaman arrived. Gawyn Trakand and his Younglings should have been a footnote in the series. But the Shaido suddenly forgot how to fight a battle at 30:1 odds in their favor!!!!!!

 

The WOs had never used the OP to fight before and this is one of the examples of AS acquitting themselves well in battle.

 

Even without the WOs, 15K Shaido (Aiel) warriors should have managed 32 Aes Sedai and 500 Younglings with a hail of arrows, in much the same way that Rodel Ituralde took out 200 damane and their suldam with arrows at the start of the Darluna battle.

 

Sevanna pulled the screens and told the field commanders to attack the Aes Sedai with 100% of their forces; which was necessary to allow Perrin's force to attack from the rear. We know that the screens stood and twiddled their thumbs; and were not needed to attack.

 

It looked like the Shaido were dumbed down to have the plot move in a certain direction.

[Durinax]

15K Shaido and 400 Wise Ones with them should have reached Rand and taken him before Perrin and the Ashaman arrived. Gawyn Trakand and his Younglings should have been a footnote in the series. But the Shaido suddenly forgot how to fight a battle at 30:1 odds in their favor!!!!!!

 

The WOs had never used the OP to fight before and this is one of the examples of AS acquitting themselves well in battle.

 

Even without the WOs, 15K Shaido (Aiel) warriors should have managed 32 Aes Sedai and 500 Younglings with a hail of arrows, in much the same way that Rodel Ituralde took out 200 damane and their suldam with arrows at the start of the Darluna battle.

 

Sevanna pulled the screens and told the field commanders to attack the Aes Sedai with 100% of their forces; which was necessary to allow Perrin's force to attack from the rear. We know that the screens stood and twiddled their thumbs; and were not needed to attack.

 

It looked like the Shaido were dumbed down to have the plot move in a certain direction.

not necessarily, the WO's likely learn basic attacks to suppliment their defence, because they can travel across the waste and into other clans holds, these wild areas would require basic offensive skills in order to defend themselves from ridgecats and snakes.

 

as for the 100% attack, it was to overwhelm and destroy them, it nearly worked if the AS wouldnt have erected a giant shield, not to mention that the distraction that the shaido caused allowed rand to get free and disable all the AS that captured him

[Vardar]

The Sharans, who breed Ayyad to Ayyad, makes sense, but realistically there should be little difference between the Westlands and the Seanchan (although I suppose there may be a social influence there--the children of sul'dam are likely to move in similar circles, and thus breed together leaving better odds of passing on the gene).

 

And what's really crazy if you consider it, from a genetics standpoint, if those children of Sul'dam families did hang out together and breed, just like red hair and Ireland, there should be a bunch of them running around. And with a bunch running around, you should have a bunch of sparkers, which would be noticed since it's a shame to have one in the family. In a few hundred years even idiots would have figured out that children of Sul'dams seem to be Dalmane a lot. A LOT A LOT!

 

Frankly, it would make a better argument to say that it was the lack of inter-breeding between male and female channelers (which would have been the norm in the Age of Legends, both because of the 'moving in the same circles' social element, and the longevity/equality of power issue that would make picking a non-Aes Sedai mate potentially end in tragedy) that caused this, but RJ was very clear about the culling element, so I'm arguing with the Word of God here.

 

But yes, 3% in the Age of Legends, down to 1% now.

 

 

I find myself doing that a lot, as you should well know. The only way it would make sense would be if Sparkers are the ones who pass the gene directly, but even then, the men sparkers still get to breed. And the Seanchan would have similiar numbers due to removing the female ones as well. And all of that ignores the Trolloc/Myr theory which would mean they have the most effective culling system of all, which brings us to the conclusion that every "human" carries the gene meaning it can't be culled out.

 

15K Shaido and 400 Wise Ones with them should have reached Rand and taken him before Perrin and the Ashaman arrived. Gawyn Trakand and his Younglings should have been a footnote in the series. But the Shaido suddenly forgot how to fight a battle at 30:1 odds in their favor!!!!!!

 

The WOs had never used the OP to fight before and this is one of the examples of AS acquitting themselves well in battle.

 

Even without the WOs, 15K Shaido (Aiel) warriors should have managed 32 Aes Sedai and 500 Younglings with a hail of arrows, in much the same way that Rodel Ituralde took out 200 damane and their suldam with arrows at the start of the Darluna battle.

 

Sevanna pulled the screens and told the field commanders to attack the Aes Sedai with 100% of their forces; which was necessary to allow Perrin's force to attack from the rear. We know that the screens stood and twiddled their thumbs; and were not needed to attack.

 

It looked like the Shaido were dumbed down to have the plot move in a certain direction.

 

Damn I hate agreeing with Sultree, but with those odds screens are useless. Sevanna had the right idea. They lost because of the shield of air. Period. They couldn't walk thru it, and for some reason they couldn't shield (Did they know about shielding, that could explain it).So what you end up having is a killing ground, which the AS should have won oif the WO couldn't shield or slice weaves. Every actual warrior should have been twiddling his thumbs at that point, they shouldn't have been much actual hand to hand until Rand broke free and started wiping out AS.

[Maleshub]

not necessarily, the WO's likely learn basic attacks to suppliment their defence, because they can travel across the waste and into other clans holds, these wild areas would require basic offensive skills in order to defend themselves from ridgecats and snakes.

 

as for the 100% attack, it was to overwhelm and destroy them, it nearly worked if the AS wouldnt have erected a giant shield, not to mention that the distraction that the shaido caused allowed rand to get free and disable all the AS that captured him

 

Damn I hate agreeing with Sultree, but with those odds screens are useless. Sevanna had the right idea. They lost because of the shield of air. Period. They couldn't walk thru it, and for some reason they couldn't shield (Did they know about shielding, that could explain it).So what you end up having is a killing ground, which the AS should have won oif the WO couldn't shield or slice weaves. Every actual warrior should have been twiddling his thumbs at that point, they shouldn't have been much actual hand to hand until Rand broke free and started wiping out AS.

 

My argument is that even WITHOUT the WO's, the 15K or 20K Shaido warriors should have defeated the the 32 AS, a couple dozen Warders, and 500 Younglings. The shield that the Tower AS weaved was to prevent Saidar attacks from WO's while leaving openings for the AS to shoot at the attackers. The Shaido should have had no problem dealing with the "enemy." The Shaido Aiel should have been able to sneak a few dozen archers within range before the full attack to take out the AS. Or they could have fired their arrows at 200 paces and still hit AS, Warders, and Younglings. That is how Ituralde took out 200 damane and their suldam in Darluna. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that an arrow is all it takes to kill an AS (even the WC's have that figured out).

 

As to pulling the screens, that is the epitome of stupidity. Sevanna's field commanders objected to pulling the screens. They are the safeguards for any army from surprise attacks. Any commander would take into consideration reinforcements arriving suddenly; or a rescue force to follow Rand. But if the screens were in place, the Shaido could have directed enough spears and WO's to stall Perrin's rescue mission. It was necessary to pull the screens (dumb Sevanna) to allow Perrin to get close enough to attack the Shaido from behind.

 

The Aiel are the elite military organization in WoT. Their expertise, skills, and stamina are exceptional (and that includes the Shaido). But in Dumai Wells the Shaido were dumbed down to move the plot. In comparison, look at what it took to defeat the Shaido in Malden, where they had 15K spears and the same number of WO's.

 

If Dumai Wells was "normal," why did it take the Seanchan (20K + damane), Prophet (20K), and Perrin (5K + AS, Asha, WO's) to defeat 15K spears in Malden?

[Mr Ares]

The Sharans, who breed Ayyad to Ayyad, makes sense, but realistically there should be little difference between the Westlands and the Seanchan (although I suppose there may be a social influence there--the children of sul'dam are likely to move in similar circles, and thus breed together leaving better odds of passing on the gene).

 

And what's really crazy if you consider it, from a genetics standpoint, if those children of Sul'dam families did hang out together and breed, just like red hair and Ireland, there should be a bunch of them running around. And with a bunch running around, you should have a bunch of sparkers, which would be noticed since it's a shame to have one in the family. In a few hundred years even idiots would have figured out that children of Sul'dams seem to be Dalmane a lot. A LOT A LOT!

Even if they did notice that, so what?

 

Frankly, it would make a better argument to say that it was the lack of inter-breeding between male and female channelers (which would have been the norm in the Age of Legends, both because of the 'moving in the same circles' social element, and the longevity/equality of power issue that would make picking a non-Aes Sedai mate potentially end in tragedy) that caused this, but RJ was very clear about the culling element, so I'm arguing with the Word of God here.

 

But yes, 3% in the Age of Legends, down to 1% now.

 

I find myself doing that a lot, as you should well know. The only way it would make sense would be if Sparkers are the ones who pass the gene directly, but even then, the men sparkers still get to breed. And the Seanchan would have similiar numbers due to removing the female ones as well. And all of that ignores the Trolloc/Myr theory which would mean they have the most effective culling system of all, which brings us to the conclusion that every "human" carries the gene meaning it can't be culled out.

Trollocs and Myrddraal don't really have anything to do with channeler numbers. If you're thinking that Fades are the Trollocs that can channel, that's already been shot down by BS. "Myrddraal are not Trollocs who can channel. Their powers are totally independent from the One Power. They really are just throwbacks to the human stock. Harriet added that there are also animal throwbacks, but they just die."

[Sharaman]

An interesting sidelight.

The Aiel are about the most militarised group in WoTland.

There are approx 500 channeling WOs / clan.

The Aiel claim that they find every girl who can channel.

That should be roughly 0.5% of population.

 

Implication: each clan is about 100,000 in total population.

 

But each clan can put 150,000 professional spears (going by the Shaido at Caemlyn) into action (without drawing on civilians).

 

Implication:

If the Aiel claims about finding every female channeller is correct, they put an impossible number of spears into battle (150% of clan population)

Hence the Aiel actually miss out on a lot of potential female channelers.

 

Obviously all the above are very rough estimates but the logic should hold.

[Maleshub]

Implication: each clan is about 100,000 in total population.

 

But each clan can put 150,000 professional spears (going by the Shaido at Caemlyn) into action (without drawing on civilians).

 

A few points to consider regarding the above stats:

- The Shaido never came close to Caemlyn. It was Cairhien that they besieged and ravaged.

- The Shaido army under Caulden included many victims of the bleakness. Thousands of spears went over the Caulden when they couldn't face their history and roots.

- A clan's population would be approximately 5 times the number of spears it can field in battle. That seems to be what is needed for a militarized society to survive. They have their women (non-maidens), children (at least one third of the population), farmers, blacksmiths, weavers, artisans, etc....

 

My estimate is that the 13 Aiel clans total 3-6 million in total population.

[Suttree]

Implication: each clan is about 100,000 in total population.

 

But each clan can put 150,000 professional spears (going by the Shaido at Caemlyn) into action (without drawing on civilians).

 

A few points to consider regarding the above stats:

- The Shaido never came close to Caemlyn. It was Cairhien that they besieged and ravaged.

- The Shaido army under Caulden included many victims of the bleakness. Thousands of spears went over the Caulden when they couldn't face their history and roots.

- A clan's population would be approximately 5 times the number of spears it can field in battle. That seems to be what is needed for a militarized society to survive. They have their women (non-maidens), children (at least one third of the population), farmers, blacksmiths, weavers, artisans, etc....

 

My estimate is that the 13 Aiel clans total 3-6 million in total population.

 

Here is a nice little military round up. Rand's Aiel, consisting of eleven clans, have about 420,000 spears.

 

http://wotfaq.dragonmount.com/node/136

[Maleshub]

Implication: each clan is about 100,000 in total population.

 

But each clan can put 150,000 professional spears (going by the Shaido at Caemlyn) into action (without drawing on civilians).

 

A few points to consider regarding the above stats:

- The Shaido never came close to Caemlyn. It was Cairhien that they besieged and ravaged.

- The Shaido army under Caulden included many victims of the bleakness. Thousands of spears went over the Caulden when they couldn't face their history and roots.

- A clan's population would be approximately 5 times the number of spears it can field in battle. That seems to be what is needed for a militarized society to survive. They have their women (non-maidens), children (at least one third of the population), farmers, blacksmiths, weavers, artisans, etc....

 

My estimate is that the 13 Aiel clans total 3-6 million in total population.

 

Here is a nice little military round up. Rand's Aiel, consisting of eleven clans, have about 420,000 spears.

 

http://wotfaq.dragonmount.com/node/136

 

One interesting bit of information in that article is about the two groups of Shaido who arrived in Malden after Perrin cleared it. The two groups totaled 55k-70K in number with about 6K-8K "spears." If this is an indication, then the number of "spears" in Aiel clans is approximately 10% of the population.

[Vardar]

Even if they did notice that, so what?

 

Are you just finding every thread I post in to say something disagreeing with me?

 

I was going to explain myself, but I consider it self explanatory. Reread it again if you're confused. If you're still confused about it, reread it one more time.

 

Trollocs and Myrddraal don't really have anything to do with channeler numbers. If you're thinking that Fades are the Trollocs that can channel, that's already been shot down by BS. "Myrddraal are not Trollocs who can channel. Their powers are totally independent from the One Power. They really are just throwbacks to the human stock. Harriet added that there are also animal throwbacks, but they just die."

 

I never said who can channel. So no, that's not what I'm thinking. Carry on.

[Sharaman]

Sorry I meant Carhein not Caemlyn.

Going by modern states, the Israeli IDF has about 200,000 active and another 550000 reserve personnel with a population of 7.75 million.

That's about 10 per cent including reserves.

Freddy the Great's Prussia had a population of 3-4 million and an army of 300000 (no women unlike Israel but lots of mercenaries recruited outside Prussia)

About 10 per cent again.

 

Israel is a reasonable analogy to Aiel - desert state; both men and women serve (though women not in combat) etc.

 

Even with 420,000 spears across 11 clans the stats suggest that the Aiel don't find all the potential women channelers.

Eleven clans = 5,500 women channelers = 0.5 per cent so total population =1.1 million

Ridiculously high proportion of 40% plus in active service.

 

The logical conclusion is, most likely, the Aiel have a much larger population and they don't find all women channelers.

 

.

[TristanWebb]

Aiel society is strongly focused on gaining honor though. The most effective way of doing that is to engage in combat. It is implied a few times during TSR and TFoH that most men besides blacksmiths are warriors, and a percentage of women as well. With farming mostly concentrate within holds and the high possibility that herders would be attacked by other clans, you could support a much larger population of soldiers than is traditionally accepted.

 

 

[Mr Ares]

Even if they did notice that, so what?

Are you just finding every thread I post in to say something disagreeing with me?

 

I was going to explain myself, but I consider it self explanatory. Reread it again if you're confused. If you're still confused about it, reread it one more time.

Or you could explain yourself. If it is noticed that a lot of families with sul'dam end up producing damane, what follows? They notice there is a genetic connection? Possibly, but this knowledge has no wider significance. And no, I'm not following you. You simply posted in a thread I was following.

 

Trollocs and Myrddraal don't really have anything to do with channeler numbers. If you're thinking that Fades are the Trollocs that can channel, that's already been shot down by BS. "Myrddraal are not Trollocs who can channel. Their powers are totally independent from the One Power. They really are just throwbacks to the human stock. Harriet added that there are also animal throwbacks, but they just die."

I never said who can channel. So no, that's not what I'm thinking. Carry on.

So what was your point? Or should I work under the assumption that you don't have one unless stated otherwise?

[Wandering Channeler]

Yeah I lean towards Crow's statement on this. A much larger percent of the aiel society would be soldiers due to their culture. Is it really 40%? seems unlikely but possible.

 

Does anyone know the strength of an average channeler? What would they be able to do in term of a gateway and in terms of a battle? For the battle capabilities part of this question exclude uses like healing or transporting, just what are they capable of in terms of killing bad guys?

[Vardar]

Sorry I meant Carhein not Caemlyn.

Going by modern states, the Israeli IDF has about 200,000 active and another 550000 reserve personnel with a population of 7.75 million.

That's about 10 per cent including reserves.

Freddy the Great's Prussia had a population of 3-4 million and an army of 300000 (no women unlike Israel but lots of mercenaries recruited outside Prussia)

About 10 per cent again.

 

Israel is a reasonable analogy to Aiel - desert state; both men and women serve (though women not in combat) etc.

 

Even with 420,000 spears across 11 clans the stats suggest that the Aiel don't find all the potential women channelers.

Eleven clans = 5,500 women channelers = 0.5 per cent so total population =1.1 million

Ridiculously high proportion of 40% plus in active service.

 

The logical conclusion is, most likely, the Aiel have a much larger population and they don't find all women channelers.

 

.

Sorry I meant Carhein not Caemlyn.

Going by modern states, the Israeli IDF has about 200,000 active and another 550000 reserve personnel with a population of 7.75 million.

That's about 10 per cent including reserves.

Freddy the Great's Prussia had a population of 3-4 million and an army of 300000 (no women unlike Israel but lots of mercenaries recruited outside Prussia)

About 10 per cent again.

 

Israel is a reasonable analogy to Aiel - desert state; both men and women serve (though women not in combat) etc.

 

Even with 420,000 spears across 11 clans the stats suggest that the Aiel don't find all the potential women channelers.

Eleven clans = 5,500 women channelers = 0.5 per cent so total population =1.1 million

Ridiculously high proportion of 40% plus in active service.

 

The logical conclusion is, most likely, the Aiel have a much larger population and they don't find all women channelers.

 

.

 

Wasn't Avi in combat before she knew she could channel? There are other former Maidens as well right? So perhaps they leave later?

[Vardar]

Even if they did notice that, so what?

Are you just finding every thread I post in to say something disagreeing with me?

 

I was going to explain myself, but I consider it self explanatory. Reread it again if you're confused. If you're still confused about it, reread it one more time.

Or you could explain yourself. If it is noticed that a lot of families with sul'dam end up producing damane, what follows? They notice there is a genetic connection? Possibly, but this knowledge has no wider significance. And no, I'm not following you. You simply posted in a thread I was following.

 

Trollocs and Myrddraal don't really have anything to do with channeler numbers. If you're thinking that Fades are the Trollocs that can channel, that's already been shot down by BS. "Myrddraal are not Trollocs who can channel. Their powers are totally independent from the One Power. They really are just throwbacks to the human stock. Harriet added that there are also animal throwbacks, but they just die."

I never said who can channel. So no, that's not what I'm thinking. Carry on.

So what was your point? Or should I work under the assumption that you don't have one unless stated otherwise?

 

1) That there is a direct correlation between the children of Suldam and channeling. It's simple and logical. And, since they generate more Sparkers and nonsparkers, it would be easy to think, wait, thye produce the leashed ones and the one who hold the leashes. There must be a connection here!

 

My point was exactly what I stated.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Does anyone know the strength of an average channeler? What would they be able to do in term of a gateway and in terms of a battle? For the battle capabilities part of this question exclude uses like healing or transporting, just what are they capable of in terms of killing bad guys?

 

Here is a relatively accurate account of current named characters' strength ratings for saidar.

 

http://13depository....th-ranking.html

 

As it says on the link, RJ created a 21 level power ranking. He also has said strength in the power flows like a bell curve. More in the middle, less at the extremities. So the average technically should be 10.5.

 

However, since at least Hawkwing's death, the power and talent of channelers in general seems to have declined. The upper tiers of strength in the OP are virutally non-existant in the present age. Without the Forsaken, who are not of the age, you could probably count on your hand the number of "upper tier" channellers. Even Egwene, Elayne and Aviendha are only really higher than average on the total scale. If we take the Forsaken, who, apart from Ishamael, Aginor, Demandred and Lanfear (who WERE among the strongest of everyone) were only just "strong" in the power, not the elite of the Age of Legends.

 

My point being, there are two ways you can see it.

 

The average of named characters, which can be seen on the link (a fair approximation). Around what, 70% can Travel? That should give an indicator as to what they can do.

 

Overall, however, the average of what SHOULD be, would be a bit higher. I mention this because with the Black Tower, and the influx of new novices, Seanchan etc. and ta'veren, discovery of abilities and such, the average may be lifted by unnamed characters. If this is the case, I would say around 75-80% would be able to Travel. Where Verin (if we take the ranking to be fairly reliable) was about the average, level 8, level 10-11 would be the average, Melaine, Anaiya, Joline, Faolin etc...

 

Edit: fixed stats

[Mr Ares]

Even if they did notice that, so what?

Are you just finding every thread I post in to say something disagreeing with me?

 

I was going to explain myself, but I consider it self explanatory. Reread it again if you're confused. If you're still confused about it, reread it one more time.

Or you could explain yourself. If it is noticed that a lot of families with sul'dam end up producing damane, what follows? They notice there is a genetic connection? Possibly, but this knowledge has no wider significance. And no, I'm not following you. You simply posted in a thread I was following.

 

Trollocs and Myrddraal don't really have anything to do with channeler numbers. If you're thinking that Fades are the Trollocs that can channel, that's already been shot down by BS. "Myrddraal are not Trollocs who can channel. Their powers are totally independent from the One Power. They really are just throwbacks to the human stock. Harriet added that there are also animal throwbacks, but they just die."

I never said who can channel. So no, that's not what I'm thinking. Carry on.

So what was your point? Or should I work under the assumption that you don't have one unless stated otherwise?

1) That there is a direct correlation between the children of Suldam and channeling. It's simple and logical. And, since they generate more Sparkers and nonsparkers, it would be easy to think, wait, thye produce the leashed ones and the one who hold the leashes. There must be a connection here!

 

My point was exactly what I stated.

But, again, so what? Even without them noticing that, one holds the leash and the other is leashed. There is already a noticed connection between the two abilities. One can control the other. So they notice that this link is also one that runs in families. Not unreasonable. But, as I asked, so what? If there was really no point you were making with your "A LOT A LOT!", why did you bother saying it? I just though there was something more you were trying to say, that your words had some wider significance than that. That there was actually something you were getting at, that there was a conclusion. Something beyond, if it happens a lot, someone will probably notice it. My mistake. Yes, they will notice it. That noticing will have no significance, and be nothing more than a curiosity.