Prince of Nothing - R. Scott Baker

[SBoydW]

So I've recently come into possesion of the first two books of this trilogy. Has anyone read it, is it any good? Should I even bother getting the third book?

[Luckers]

It is awesome, very complex, and quite dark in places, but probably my favourite new fantasy series.

[Xeratul]

I agree with Luckers. The series is incredible. It has one of my favorite characters of all time as well. The writing is just so much better than almost anything else in this genre. The follow-up series isn't as good, but that's only because "The Prince of Nothing " set the bar so high.

[Suttree]

Another vote for favorite series(and author right now for that matter). White Luck Warrior in my opinion was far and away the best fantasy book to come out last year. Bakker is a terrific writer and the quality of prose holds up outside of genre.

 

As Bakker said "All along I wanted to write an epic fantasy that rewards careful reading, the kind of scrutiny generally reserved for so-called ‘literary texts.’ A fantasy that wouldn’t be ‘ruined’ by a literature PhD, let alone a BA." This is about as far away as you can get from Forgotten Realms style hack n' slash dross. Superb characterization and world building allow you to fully immerse yourself and re-reads(amazing how much new I catch each time) are highly recommended. His writing is a big step up from most fantasy out there and it has only gotten better as the series goes on.

[Werthead]

It is excellent. I should also caution that it is very dark and disturbing in places. It makes A Song of Ice and Fire read like My Little Pony.

[peacesells]

I hope I can remember this when I'm done with Mazalan. I just dl'd the first book of that series.

[Songstress]

I've read the first book... was a bit slow to get into it, but once the disparate storylines started coming together, I really enjoyed it. Will be getting the second book soon.

[SBoydW]

Well, I guess I'll look into getting the rest. Thanks!

[Werthead]

Important note, since it appears it hasn't come up before: The Prince of Nothing is a trilogy but it's also the first part in a much larger story called The Second Apocalypse. The second series is The Aspect-Emperor trilogy, which will be followed by a third series (either a duology or trilogy depending on how it goes).

 

The books so far are:

 

The Prince of Nothing

1: The Darkness That Comes Before (2003)

2: The Warrior-Prophet (2004)

3: The Thousandfold Thought (2006)

 

The Aspect-Emperor

1: The Judging Eye (2009)

2: The White Luck Warrior (2011)

3: The Unholy Consult (forthcoming, probably in mid-to-late 2013)

 

So it's not a completed series yet.

[Suttree]

Important note, since it appears it hasn't come up before: The Prince of Nothing is a trilogy but it's also the first part in a much larger story called The Second Apocalypse. The second series is The Aspect-Emperor trilogy, which will be followed by a third series (either a duology or trilogy depending on how it goes).

 

The books so far are:

 

The Prince of Nothing

1: The Darkness That Comes Before (2003)

2: The Warrior-Prophet (2004)

3: The Thousandfold Thought (2006)

 

The Aspect-Emperor

1: The Judging Eye (2009)

2: The White Luck Warrior (2011)

3: The Unholy Consult (forthcoming, probably in mid-to-late 2013)

 

So it's not a completed series yet.

 

Hey Wert, have you heard anything about how The Unholy Consult is coming along?

[Werthead]

It's getting there. Scott has actually written the final chapters (AFAIK) and is backtracking and filling in and editing as he goes. The book is closer to being finished than not, or so I understand it.

 

One slight problem is that Scott's income from the books has not been great, particularly in the USA where a very small publisher releases the books and even by their standards it has not performed well. Orbit in the UK are much happier with the sales situation, but obviously the American market is where the real money is and the books are not doing great. As a result, Scott has had to return to teaching and tutoring part-time. That's not had such a big impact on Unholy Consult, but could delay the final sequence of books more notably. He remains committed to finishing the series no matter what, however.

[Sid]

An unfinished fantasy series with good reviews, possible delays in its release and questions as to how many books are left to be written? Sign me up!

 

Actually quite awhile ago I picked up The Darkness that comes Before and Gardens of the Moon from the library at the same time. I started Malazan first by chance and never got around to reading Baker's series, so I think I'll correct that oversight this coming week.

[Suttree]

Bakker: I don't see the appeal. Mediocre overall.

 

 

Strong prose that holds up outside of genre, excellent world building, and heady philosophical themes. Yeah clearly the stuff of mediocrity.

 

I can understand people have differing enjoyment of the work, Bakker clearly isn't for everyone, but at least he aspires to be something more.

 

All along I wanted to write an epic fantasy that rewards careful reading, the kind of scrutiny generally reserved for so-called ‘literary texts.’ A fantasy that wouldn’t be ‘ruined’ by a literature PhD, let alone a BA. At the same time I wanted to write an epic fantasy that rewards casual reading as well–to literally have it both ways.

 

Mediocrity doesn't fit in the slightest. By all means, expand on your thoughts if you want to go down that route though.

 

@crimson

 

If you are interested in checking him out given your background in philosophy, here is an excerpt from Wert'z review of the first trilogy:

 

The Prince of Nothing is not a fluffy epic fantasy full of farm boys saving the world and virtuous princesses cooped up in their towers. It is dark and it is often brutal. There are rays of light penetrating the gloom - moments of good humour and fellowship - but these are few and far between. Yet it is compellingly readable. Bakker has a superb prose style, easy to follow yet packed with information that rewards careful reading and re-reading. In this sense he is very similar to Frank Herbert, and indeed The Prince of Nothing often feels like an epic fantasy version of Dune, reinforced by the fictional quotations that open each chapter and the absolutely massive glossary that makes up nearly a fifth of the third volume. Bakker is interested in philosophy (indeed, his masters' degree in the field was put on hold whilst he worked on this trilogy) and this comes through in the books, with characters frequently pondering the nature of life, of war and of thought. The shadow of Nietzsche lies heavily on the books in particular. Whilst it never overwhelms the plot (the philosophical interludes are delivered in bite-sized chunks rather than massive info-dumps), some may find that this slows down the proceedings. I can say I didn't, and tore through all three books in a matter of days.

Edit: Unholy Consult has been turned in to his publishers.

 

http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2014/03/r-scott-bakker-delivers-unholy-consult.html

[Drohana88]

The first trilogy was decent. World- building is what means the most to me as opposed to whatever passes for "quality of prose" in the literary community. In world-building, I would be hard-pressed to say Bakker is better than average. The books in the second trilogy so far were simply boring to me.

[Drohana88]

As for the prose, I suppose it is fine. I would enjoy the series more if Bakker knew how to tell a story or write dialogue that wasn't so stilted. Way too much pseudo-enlightened garbage.

 

I have no desire to pick up the last book in the series. In contrast, I cannot wait to get back to Words of Radiance.

[nicholas.westmiles@gmail.com]

Thanks for the recommendation.  I'll give it a look.  I actually really like Nietzsche, particularly when looked at as a virtue theorist.

 

I just couldn't get into Stephen Erikson or Glen Cook though.  If it's anything like those in terms of how those series move, I may get bored.  I did finish both series, and would be hard pressed to clarify what it was that rubbed me the wrong way.  If I had to give a guess, however, for Erikson, maybe it was the characters (none jumped out at me as being particularly compelling).  For Glen Cook, it all just seemed pointless, just struggle for the sake of struggle.  I wouldn't want to call either bad, just had trouble keeping my attention focused.  I do have ADHD, so that doesn't help.  Fortunately, I have a very fast reading speed, which helps mitigate the attention issues.

[NeverTame]

I tried reading these books some years ago, but didn't get through the second book. Then I gave the books to my brother, who said he couldn't put them down. I'm thinking I'll be giving this another shot, though, once I'm back in Finland and can borrow the books back from him.

[Goaswerfraiejen]

From another thread in the general WOT discussion:

 

Yeah you're right, he started at Vanderbilt but never finished apparently. Since you have a similar background curious to what your thoughts are on his work?

 

 

 

I quite enjoyed TPoN and what's been published of the followup trilogy. It's different from standard fantasy fare, and pretty good on the whole, even if a tad slow-paced at first. The world Bakker's built is one I'm curious about, and his system of magic is after Jordan's, the most novel one I've come across (it's much less systematic than Jordan's, and the complexity of the system was part of the appeal of WoT, at least for me), but it's one that I find legitimately new and interesting. Bakker's very good, IMO, at alluding to other fantasy in a novel and engaging way. It's certainly not ham-fisted. 

 

His work also appeals to some of my philosophical inclinations, since it draws from the history of philosophy (especially medieval logic) and, to an extent, the philosophy of language. As far as philosophy goes, there's not much to be had in Bakker's work--it is fiction, after all. But the influences are there, they're pretty clear, and they've made for some very interesting world-building (in the second trilogy, that world-building gets especially dark, like Werthead said, and even more interesting).