prologue timing

[CaveManNinja]

I don't think this is a spoiler as it happens in between the prologue and ch1 of the Eye of the World. Anyone notice that the prophecies are from the fourth age while the book opens in the third...

[Luckers]

I don't think this is a spoiler as it happens in between the prologue and ch1 of the Eye of the World. Anyone notice that the prophecies are from the fourth age while the book opens in the third...

 

Yes. They are known as the 'Fourth Age Histories'.

 

But if your asking whether they destroy the posibility of the Shadow's victory... remember, an Age long past, an Age yet to come... so which Fourth Age are they the histories of? :P

[rand4747]

we know the world will not end in the shadows win anyway. How many books where everyone goes to save the world and fails and its all destroyed.

[Barid Bel Medar]

INTERVIEW: Oct 24th, 2005

KOD Signing Report - Kevin Dean (Paraphrased)

 

ROBERT JORDAN

He explained that SOME call the "current" Age the Third Age. He made it very clear that not everyone does, or has.

[fikkie77]

I don't think this is a spoiler as it happens in between the prologue and ch1 of the Eye of the World. Anyone notice that the prophecies are from the fourth age while the book opens in the third...

Though a win for the Light is what will probably happen, this is not what is to be concluded from these histories. They might originate from 6 ages ago and tell us what happend in the Age before that.

The same with prophecies: some give a clue of a victory for the Light, but if the DO destroys the Wheel, they will just not come true.

[CaveManNinja]

I don't think this is a spoiler as it happens in between the prologue and ch1 of the Eye of the World. Anyone notice that the prophecies are from the fourth age while the book opens in the third...

 

Yes. They are known as the 'Fourth Age Histories'.

 

But if your asking whether they destroy the posibility of the Shadow's victory... remember, an Age long past, an Age yet to come... so which Fourth Age are they the histories of? :P

 

I guess I was just wondering if this is a signal that the series would end without some sort of final point where light wins and the cycle doesn't just repeat. (This is assuming that the prophecies are literally the age after the events in WoT)

 

 

we know the world will not end in the shadows win anyway. How many books where everyone goes to save the world and fails and its all destroyed.

That would be a horrible practical joke.. I don't think it means that the shadow wins, just that it restarts from the begining

[Barid Bel Medar]

There will not be a "final win". You cannot break the Wheel without destroying the world. That is the logic of Ishamael, he wants the endless cycle to be ended. However, that events repeat themselves over the 7 ages does not mean that progress cannot be made, nor does it make everything futile. It is something Rand struggled with and overcame in tGS (although he did so because of one reason, there are many more)

 

INTERVIEW: May, 2001

Marcon Report - Sorilea (Paraphrased)

 

QUESTION

At one point in the story we see Ishamael talking to Rand, and telling him that they have fought countless times in the past, but this is the final time. Is there anything about his Age that makes it special?

 

ROBERT JORDAN

 

"No...every Age is repeated, there is nothing that makes this age any different from any other turnings of the Wheel. The Wheel is endless."

 

 

 

 

 

 

INTERVIEW: Jun 27th, 1996

AOL Chat 1 (Verbatim)

 

ROG IN CT

Because the Wheel of Time contains the Dark One's prison, and the Ages repeat with each revolution, then isn't humanity itself also imprisoned....unable to truly evolve?

 

ROBERT JORDAN

No. :)

[RandA lThor]

Everything may generally repeat, but not exactly. Everything could repeat with more technology, but the same idea. Nuclear missiles instead of dragons and so on.

[rand4747]

The main events that happen in each turning may also not be very extreme, they just have to exist so the prison does have a bore put through it but maybe the war of the shadow wont be a heavy loss for the light side, maybe they will be completely owning the dark and civilization doesn't collapse. Then when its patched maybe the resulting madness is contained so there is not a breaking at least not big. (except the ones initially gone mad would do damage before caught) so the technology may survive till after the "breaking", etc etc.

[Kahsm]

Is it really a wheel of time then? Or a spiral of time? A wheel would imply you come back to the same spoke, not a different spoke in the same orientation (Which would be more like a spiral).

 

Regarding the prophecies, a wheel would suggest the prophecies are from the past and the future, because they're the same. The difference is, the wheel breaks if the DO wins and both future and past cease to exist. It's kind of like Min's viewings or other prophecy tools, they can see past the potential end(s), but they're not guaranteed if the whole system collapses due to a mechanism from outside the pattern, and therefore un-see-able.

[RandA lThor]

Right, min sees what is supposed to happen, not what is going to happen, if that makes sense.

[CaveManNinja]

Is it really a wheel of time then? Or a spiral of time? A wheel would imply you come back to the same spoke, not a different spoke in the same orientation (Which would be more like a spiral).

 

Regarding the prophecies, a wheel would suggest the prophecies are from the past and the future, because they're the same. The difference is, the wheel breaks if the DO wins and both future and past cease to exist. It's kind of like Min's viewings or other prophecy tools, they can see past the potential end(s), but they're not guaranteed if the whole system collapses due to a mechanism from outside the pattern, and therefore un-see-able.

But unless the DO breaks the cycle/conquers everything/acts like a a generally unpleasant fellow, the cycle just repeats even at the end of the cycle we are observing?? I guess I'm just wondering if the wheel can be reshaped in the favor of the Light. What makes this cycle so special if it can't?

[RandA lThor]

Because the Light technically needs the Dark to survive. i have gone over this before, but I can't find where. Anyways, firstly, when the Creator created the Wheel of Time and randland, the DO came along with it, not necessarily just because the Creator just wanted to screw us over. Balance was necessary and the DO was created. on the lines of this, let's imagine a world without the DO and only the light. People start to forget who the DO ever was. With the evil gone, almost everything major done is something that is not completely evil. People start to lose the meaning of evil as the entity of evil himself is gone. They forget about praying to the Light for something, they just do it. There is no good or bad, there is just actions. At some point, someone will try to distinguish between actions that help and destroy and good and bad will originate again and the DO's essence will live again.

[Mr Ares]

Because the Light technically needs the Dark to survive. i have gone over this before, but I can't find where. Anyways, firstly, when the Creator created the Wheel of Time and randland, the DO came along with it, not necessarily just because the Creator just wanted to screw us over. Balance was necessary and the DO was created. on the lines of this, let's imagine a world without the DO and only the light. People start to forget who the DO ever was. With the evil gone, almost everything major done is something that is not completely evil. People start to lose the meaning of evil as the entity of evil himself is gone. They forget about praying to the Light for something, they just do it. There is no good or bad, there is just actions. At some point, someone will try to distinguish between actions that help and destroy and good and bad will originate again and the DO's essence will live again.

Shai'tan was not created by the Creator. Also, good is not defined solely by its opposition to evil, and therefore with no evil there is not less good, there is only good.

[RandA lThor]

right, that is what I am saying, with only good people will not know what evil is because it does not exist, they will just do good actions. Eventually, good itself would be gone because there would be no need to call it good as everything already is good.

[Mr Ares]

But that doesn't lead to an emergence of evil. It just means there is good. Good doesn't disappear, it is simply not defined in relation to evil. Even if all actions are good, it is still possible to have degrees of goodness - some actions are good, others are better. If you get rid of evil, you are left with good, good doesn't mysteriously vanish as well.

[Barid Bel Medar]

The DO doesn't = Evil.

 

The DO is a type of evil. Humans still can act with "evil' intent.

 

We have Mordeth's power as an example of "human evil".

 

Also, before the DO was re-discovered, evil was not non-existent. True, the world was much, much more peaceful, however, evil itself was not destroyed. Semirhage Moggy and Aginor are proof enough of that.

[TristanWebb]

The AoL was peaceful because it was post-scarcity. With an unlimited energy source like the Power any non-despotic society will eventually come close to eradicating poverty. With poverty gone education increases and antisocial behaviour in average people decreases. There are always outliers like psychopaths and sadists who hurt people for no reason, but poverty is the leading cause of illicit behavour.

 

Once the DO comes around, you get more and more people doing evil just for the fun of it, which is what brought down society during the Collapse.