Alanna bonding Rand

[Mr Ares]

It doesn't work on men holding saidin - it works fine on men at other times, and women whether or not they hold saidar.

[TheDuchess]

Do I remember correctly that the bond enhances a persons strength and stamina somehow? If so I wonder if Rand could have survived some of his physical injuries without the bonding. Maybe the pattern forced Alanna to it because Rand needed that enhancement to survive his comming trials?

 

you are right, it does give extra strenght/stamina. Also that the pattern probably nudged it a bit, with him being Ta'veren it was likely forced. Still, not a good thing to do,but it does help redeem her.

 

Thanks for reply. I must say I was outraged with Alanna when she did that. I rather think that Egwene should set her a penance to atone for it.

[TristanWebb]

It doesn't work on men holding saidin - it works fine on men at other times, and women whether or not they hold saidar.

All of the AS who have been man-bonded have the twist though, right?

[Pinzarn]

Do I remember correctly that the bond enhances a persons strength and stamina somehow? If so I wonder if Rand could have survived some of his physical injuries without the bonding. Maybe the pattern forced Alanna to it because Rand needed that enhancement to survive his comming trials?

 

you are right, it does give extra strenght/stamina. Also that the pattern probably nudged it a bit, with him being Ta'veren it was likely forced. Still, not a good thing to do,but it does help redeem her.

 

@Pinzarn re: struggle for control.

 

Simply put, there was no struggle. Alanna had no chance of controlling him, he is ta'veren, the strongest channeler in the world, the Dragon Reborn, and insane, he was far too powerful for her and far too angry. Alanna is slightly above average, at best.

 

I would have traded pages from the Faile/Shaido/Perrin and also from the Dark One's touch on the world for more pages on any kind of struggle. I was always hoping for Rand eventually turning the bond around on her and making Alanna his puppet.

[Barid Bel Medar]

 

 

I would have traded pages from the Faile/Shaido/Perrin and also from the Dark One's touch on the world for more pages on any kind of struggle. I was always hoping for Rand eventually turning the bond around on her and making Alanna his puppet.

 

Ahh, the other way round, I don't know if that is possible. She get get pretty wrecked though. It is kinda just as bad though, he shouldn't lower himself to that level, but it would have been fun to watch haha.

 

I think you could trade anything from the Faile capture and it would have been awesome. Watching paint dry, for example.

[FarShainMael]

Maybe he has.

[Mr Ares]

It doesn't work on men holding saidin - it works fine on men at other times, and women whether or not they hold saidar.

All of the AS who have been man-bonded have the twist though, right?

All the AS bonded by the Asha'man have the extra bit in their bonds.

[XXX]

The AS bond is pretty inadequate when it comes to men who can channel. As the men are typically stronger than women in the power even if the woman has bonded the man more often than not the woman will be at the mercy of the stronger man. The Asha'man bond is better in that respect as it has a compulsion element to it.

[Suttree]

The AS bond is pretty inadequate when it comes to men who can channel. As the men are typically stronger than women in the power even if the woman has bonded the man more often than not the woman will be at the mercy of the stronger man. The Asha'man bond is better in that respect as it has a compulsion element to it.

 

Not sure if better is the term I would use, but it does indeed have the "extra bit" that doesn't require channeling to compel someone.

 

Obviously as they start to work together post TG they will have to find a new way to do it.

[Mr Ares]

The AS bond is pretty inadequate when it comes to men who can channel. As the men are typically stronger than women in the power even if the woman has bonded the man more often than not the woman will be at the mercy of the stronger man. The Asha'man bond is better in that respect as it has a compulsion element to it.

Men being stronger doesn't really matter. You can't compel a man holding saidin, weaker or stronger. Not holding saidin? Weaker or stronger in the Power doesn't matter a damn, you can compel them nonetheless. Further, the compulsive elements are one way - the man cannot compel through the bond unless he is the one holding it and the AS is the one bonded. An Asha'man bonded by an AS can compel her in the usual way, but not through the bond regardless of his strength. Also, the AS holding the bond can still kill him at any time by draining his strength (another one way process), so she is hardly at his mercy.

[XXX]

Can you explain how the AS can drain a warders strength.?

 

And is there not an RJ quote saying that in the case of the AS bond the stronger person will gain control. And IIRC correctly the AS holding Narasimha's (?) bond also expressed the same fears.

[XXX]

The AS bond is pretty inadequate when it comes to men who can channel. As the men are typically stronger than women in the power even if the woman has bonded the man more often than not the woman will be at the mercy of the stronger man. The Asha'man bond is better in that respect as it has a compulsion element to it.

 

Not sure if better is the term I would use, but it does indeed have the "extra bit" that doesn't require channeling to compel someone.

 

Obviously as they start to work together post TG they will have to find a new way to do it.

 

I don't like the bonding process at all. It should be completely eliminated both the AS and AM types.

[Luckers]

Can you explain how the AS can drain a warders strength.?

 

And is there not an RJ quote saying that in the case of the AS bond the stronger person will gain control. And IIRC correctly the AS holding Narasimha's (?) bond also expressed the same fears.

 

On the strength thing, an Aes Sedai can draw strength from her warder, thus making herself stronger and less weary and so forth--and it can go to the extent of taking all his strength, in which case he dies.

 

As for the stronger channeler gaining control of the bond, no, there is not RJ quote and its not the case. Merise was talking simply of the balance of power that exists between Aes Sedai and warder--as in who commands, not as in who can compel the other.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Just on the original question about why Rand didn't do anything.

 

He did, sort of, he tried.

 

He asked Herid Fel if the warder bond could be broken somehow (although why Rand thought Fel would know, I have no idea) but he wasn't exactly in a position to want to ask an Aes Sedai for some tips.

[XXX]

Can you explain how the AS can drain a warders strength.?

 

And is there not an RJ quote saying that in the case of the AS bond the stronger person will gain control. And IIRC correctly the AS holding Narasimha's (?) bond also expressed the same fears.

 

On the strength thing, an Aes Sedai can draw strength from her warder, thus making herself stronger and less weary and so forth--and it can go to the extent of taking all his strength, in which case he dies.

 

As for the stronger channeler gaining control of the bond, no, there is not RJ quote and its not the case. Merise was talking simply of the balance of power that exists between Aes Sedai and warder--as in who commands, not as in who can compel the other.

 

Thanks for the clarification.

 

So if the man is stronger what exactly means by who is in command? He can order the AS who bonded him around?.

 

In any case as the man is on average stronger more likely than not he will be the one in command whatever that entails.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Here is a quote on the warder bond, I think you were thinking of the Domination Band, which, if the male is strong, can eventually control the women who hold the bracelets.

 

 

INTERVIEW: Oct 4th, 2005

Robert Jordan's Blog: ONE MORE TIME

 

 

ROBERT JORDAN

 

A very strong male channeler bonded to a very weak Aes Sedai could not use the bond to control her. Whoever holds the bond is in charge, though she might have a hard time controlling him.

[Jolthead]

Was rereading the last book and find it rather timely that Alanna disappears right when Rand has his change and can now 'see' darkfriends.

[Clouded]

Here is a quote on the warder bond, I think you were thinking of the Domination Band, which, if the male is strong, can eventually control the women who hold the bracelets.

 

 

INTERVIEW: Oct 4th, 2005

Robert Jordan's Blog: ONE MORE TIME

 

 

ROBERT JORDAN

 

A very strong male channeler bonded to a very weak Aes Sedai could not use the bond to control her. Whoever holds the bond is in charge, though she might have a hard time controlling him.

 

This line by Robert Jordan confuses me. What does he mean by "controlling him"? I was under the impression that Spirit Coaxing doesn't work on men who can channel. But this statement seems to imply a spectrum of control. A spectrum dependent on the channeling strength of the bondee. It could range from men who can't channel to men who can channel very strongly. Men who can't channel (pre-DR Warders) have little to no ability to fight the Spirit Coaxing, while men who can channel strongly (Rand al'Thor) are practically immune to the Spirit Coaxing.

 

Of course, I have nothing to back this theory up. We haven't seen the point of views of any warders or sisters who are bonded with partners of similar strength. But I think it would be an interesting development in world of WoT.

[TristanWebb]

They are only immune to it while holding saidin. As for controlling him, Moir said that Lan was like a lion held by a thread. You get a guy with a very strong personality as warder you are going to have to work hard to keep him in line, and if you are AS you are used to doing what you are told.

[Barid Bel Medar]

They are only immune to it while holding saidin. As for controlling him, Moir said that Lan was like a lion held by a thread. You get a guy with a very strong personality as warder you are going to have to work hard to keep him in line, and if you are AS you are used to doing what you are told.

 

Indeed, apart from the fact the holding saidin gives channeling men an added resistance, it is more to do with strength of will rather than channeling, and the relationship between the pair. For Rand, it was easy to resist because of his strong will (not exactly ta'veren and Dragon Reborn, but a huge amount of mental strength comes with it) and the fact that she bonded him against his will. While even the 3 girls wouldn't be able to control him, they would have an easier time than Alanna.

[Clouded]

They are only immune to it while holding saidin. As for controlling him, Moir said that Lan was like a lion held by a thread. You get a guy with a very strong personality as warder you are going to have to work hard to keep him in line, and if you are AS you are used to doing what you are told.

 

Has this been confirmed? Can anyone post evidence for this? As far as I can tell, this was a theory to explain why the Warder Obedience didn't work on Rand.

 

Indeed, apart from the fact the holding saidin gives channeling men an added resistance, it is more to do with strength of will rather than channeling, and the relationship between the pair. For Rand, it was easy to resist because of his strong will (not exactly ta'veren and Dragon Reborn, but a huge amount of mental strength comes with it) and the fact that she bonded him against his will. While even the 3 girls wouldn't be able to control him, they would have an easier time than Alanna.

 

Hmm I could see this. Instead of control being a function of strength in the one power, it would be a function of will power. It makes sense with Lan, who initially resists Myrelle's Obedience. And your explanation for Rand makes sense too. Rand was able to resist due to his strength of will. We all know he is stubborn, and perhaps his practice with handling the One Power also increases his strength of will.

[Vardar]

They are only immune to it while holding saidin. As for controlling him, Moir said that Lan was like a lion held by a thread. You get a guy with a very strong personality as warder you are going to have to work hard to keep him in line, and if you are AS you are used to doing what you are told.

 

Has this been confirmed? Can anyone post evidence for this? As far as I can tell, this was a theory to explain why the Warder Obedience didn't work on Rand.

 

Indeed, apart from the fact the holding saidin gives channeling men an added resistance, it is more to do with strength of will rather than channeling, and the relationship between the pair. For Rand, it was easy to resist because of his strong will (not exactly ta'veren and Dragon Reborn, but a huge amount of mental strength comes with it) and the fact that she bonded him against his will. While even the 3 girls wouldn't be able to control him, they would have an easier time than Alanna.

 

Hmm I could see this. Instead of control being a function of strength in the one power, it would be a function of will power. It makes sense with Lan, who initially resists Myrelle's Obedience. And your explanation for Rand makes sense too. Rand was able to resist due to his strength of will. We all know he is stubborn, and perhaps his practice with handling the One Power also increases his strength of will.

 

There was a quote posted yesterday. I need to find it.

 

It's both. You can't compel someone holding the source and you can't compel someone (Without destroying their mind) who is strong willed.

[Mr Ares]

They are only immune to it while holding saidin. As for controlling him, Moir said that Lan was like a lion held by a thread. You get a guy with a very strong personality as warder you are going to have to work hard to keep him in line, and if you are AS you are used to doing what you are told.

 

Has this been confirmed? Can anyone post evidence for this? As far as I can tell, this was a theory to explain why the Warder Obedience didn't work on Rand.

Yes. Sammael refers to men being immune to compulsion in LOC 6.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Also a point to consider is the nature of wielding saidin. You have to use difficult mental exercise to be able to channel. Being able to safely handle saidin would increase your mental prowess by a lot. (the whole grabbing hold and not let it overpower you, balanced on knife-edge)

[Clouded]

Yes. Sammael refers to men being immune to compulsion in LOC 6.

 

Ahh thanks. There goes my theory that Warder Obedience is strictly a function of willpower. Guess it is both.