New Theory on Avienda's Pillar Dreams

[jsbrads]

The Pillars did not sho you the past, but it showed you your past, the past of your ancestors, so logically it wouldn't show you the future, but just your future.

Your future is the world you would make without any influence by others, the rest of the world, becomes a billiards table and you are the cue ball.

The world of Avienda's Vision was not a place formed by the Tuon and Mat we know, noone else would have left a permanent cease fire, not even an evil Tuon would have accepted that. But it is world formed by Avienda's perception of the world around her and her attitude toward it. The Pillars showed her, her future. That's what it does.

Note: the message to the Aiel visitors to the pillars was always a deeply personal message, about who they are and where they came from, the history of the world outside that message was only glimpsed in the background...

[Barid Bel Medar]

Nice one. I think it is a good theory. I certainly like it. Don't know enough about the way it works to really say anything either way, but it makes sense and yeah, would be interesting if this was the case.

[csnyder]

Hmmm...this is hard to follow for me, merely because we all interpret the past and future through our own goggles.

It also doesn't serve to verify/falsify any of the visions, unless you mean to say that the information provided to the Clan Chiefs and Wise Ones is faulty/propaganda at best which would be an interesting twist. Additionally, the Pillars work only for the Aiel (as for the why and how of this, I have no idea) so the functionality of the Pillars was made specifically for the Aiel to see something integral to not only their survival but all of mankind's. I guess what I mean to say is that although it could very well be showing you your own particular future, it doesn't follow for it not to be one true reflection of the communal future for all. Meaning I see the difference semantically, but not how this affects the nature of the Pillars.

[jsbrads]

Hmmm...this is hard to follow for me, merely because we all interpret the past and future through our own goggles.

It also doesn't serve to verify/falsify any of the visions, unless you mean to say that the information provided to the Clan Chiefs and Wise Ones is faulty/propaganda at best which would be an interesting twist. Additionally, the Pillars work only for the Aiel (as for the why and how of this, I have no idea) so the functionality of the Pillars was made specifically for the Aiel to see something integral to not only their survival but all of mankind's. I guess what I mean to say is that although it could very well be showing you your own particular future, it doesn't follow for it not to be one true reflection of the communal future for all. Meaning I see the difference semantically, but not how this affects the nature of the Pillars.

 

The Pillars don't produce propeganda, what it shows you of your past is the truth, but it doesn't show important parts of global history, but important parts of your personal history.

We have no idea if pillars work for non-Aiel, but that has nothing to do with this topic. And I don't believe it addresses as you put "intergral to not only their survival but all of mankind's." What it does seem to address is strictly the survival of Avienda's descendants (which may be tied to Aiel survival (which may be tied to mankind's survival (but probably not as her descendants are post breaking)))

 

And your final point: "it could very well be showing you your own particular future, it doesn't follow for it not to be one true reflection of the communal future for all" let me just start with, this is a very good point.

but imagine if my actions, like negligent parenting would produce a bad child, that doesn't mean the child won't be taken away from me a raised properly in an adopted home, and grow to be a wonderful member of society, but the pillar don't try to show me "The Truth" it may not even have access to that. we know it has access to me while I am in the pillars, perhaps can read the structures of my mind and read a genetic memory of the past and extrapolate a future, as only a computer can.

But as such, it's processing power is limited by the data inputted... such that while past visions would be perfect, because my genetic memory can't be faked, the future visions would be limited by the data inputted, ie it is not reading the pattern, but it is judging you

[Ala Rubra]

Eh, I think it's not showing the future at all-- that is, her vision of the "future" was actually still a vision of the past. Just so far into the past that it seemed like the future. Since each turning of the wheel is pretty similar, things didn't seem very off to us, while still allowing for things to turn out differently this time (a shift towards the better, probably).

[csnyder]

It has been stated in interviews that the Pillars only work for the Aiel, not even Tinkers can access the Pillars.

I can agree with it not being pertinent to the survival of the Aiel, however, if what Aviendha has seen is transmutable then one can assume the function of the ter'angreal Pillars is to help lead people away from possible malevolent fates by showing them as highly probable.

 

Your second paragraph finally clicked for me what you were saying. Very interesting possibility indeed - and more plausible than my mystic, fake-out viewing theory.

[jsbrads]

Eh, I think it's not showing the future at all-- that is, her vision of the "future" was actually still a vision of the past. Just so far into the past that it seemed like the future. Since each turning of the wheel is pretty similar, things didn't seem very off to us, while still allowing for things to turn out differently this time (a shift towards the better, probably).

 

Sorry but im not buying this theory

 

1 I know that they are not that similar

2 the time line progression is all wrong, flip a switch and instead of it showing you your children it shows you a family from a gazillion years ago who happen to exactly like you

[rand4747]

I think it shows the future as it stands without any interfarence. It is what will happen. But this is not a prophecy/mins vision/whatever and it can be changed by the person who saw it.