Aviendha and the Aiel

[Durinax]

Aviendha has many choices she can make to change the future she saw

1) negotiate the release of Aiel hostages

2) never have rands children

3) stay alive (she was obviously dead/gone when her kids where about)

4) bring the aiel back to the three fold land

5) organize the aiel to seize the large portions of land that are unclaimed by any nation

 

 

I honestly thing option 1 is the one she will take, as it carries the most ji

followed by option 5

[RandA lThor]

Aviendha has many choices she can make to change the future she saw

1) negotiate the release of Aiel hostages

2) never have rands children

3) stay alive (she was obviously dead/gone when her kids where about)

4) bring the aiel back to the three fold land

5) organize the aiel to seize the large portions of land that are unclaimed by any nation

 

 

I honestly thing option 1 is the one she will take, as it carries the most ji

followed by option 5

6. Be part of the Dragon's peace.

[lenardo]

ya i did the math months ago and was ~28ish days behind for avienda but that was a guess on a few things.

 

things she has to do, think- she has ~7- 10 day journey(if she so chooses to take it) back to the hold.

 

which will put her ~15 days behind then has to meet with the wise women to discuss...everything. i expect her to be at merrilor with a contigent of wisewomen to...persuade rand to their thinking.

[TristanWebb]

The future vision seems very convenient. Rand just vanished and maybe Avi too, and specifically saying that the Aiel weren't a part of the peace. Poor foreshadowing or the ter'angreal just showing how to fix it?

[Barid Bel Medar]

The vision was strange in many ways. Mat, Perrin, Avi, Elayne, Rand, Moiraine, Nynaeve, Egwene the Wise Ones, Amys, Melaine etc... are almost non-existent in the earliest of the visions. It is especially strange that all of the Channellers were not there. It was, IIRC, no more than 30-40 years after the LB, most likely a lot less than that. Even with the 3 oaths, which Avi and the Wise Ones would not be under, with their strength, Elayne etc.. should live for at least 150 years. Elayne should have still been around in Andor in the later visions with her children/grandchildren or what not.

 

Aviendha might not be having a great time at the moment, anything could have happened in 28 days. She could have been attack by Shaido, or one of the Forsaken or a group of Shadowspawn or what not. I think that something will be happening to her before she gets back to the Aiel and Rand, and we will see this in aMoL. I don't think she will get off too easy and just stroll back in and tell the Wise Ones about her vision. It is too easy...suspiciously so.

[Maleshub]

The vision was strange in many ways. Mat, Perrin, Avi, Elayne, Rand, Moiraine, Nynaeve, Egwene the Wise Ones, Amys, Melaine etc... are almost non-existent in the earliest of the visions. It is especially strange that all of the Channellers were not there. It was, IIRC, no more than 30-40 years after the LB, most likely a lot less than that. Even with the 3 oaths, which Avi and the Wise Ones would not be under, with their strength, Elayne etc.. should live for at least 150 years. Elayne should have still been around in Andor in the later visions with her children/grandchildren or what not.

 

Aviendha might not be having a great time at the moment, anything could have happened in 28 days. She could have been attack by Shaido, or one of the Forsaken or a group of Shadowspawn or what not. I think that something will be happening to her before she gets back to the Aiel and Rand, and we will see this in aMoL. I don't think she will get off too easy and just stroll back in and tell the Wise Ones about her vision. It is too easy...suspiciously so.

 

It would be interesting to see if she has to face unexpected difficulties. But her main role is ensuring that the Aiel are behind Rand in the FoM; and in convincing him how to save the "remnant of a remnant." Blood and Bloody Ashes; but that's a sad ending to a proud nation!

[Barid Bel Medar]

That is my point. Her main role is as you said. Which is just suspiciously too easy. Which is why I think that she will have some unexpected trouble.

[yoniy0]

It was, IIRC, no more than 30-40 years after the LB, most likely a lot less than that.

A LOT less. Her kids were teenagers (and the kar'a'karn apparently vanished, so Aviendha conceived before TG).

[baalsmistress]

The Aiel were militarised because they were needed to be the main fighting force that the dragon could rely on. Post Tarmon Gaiden, they become a liability, having fulfilled their purpose. It's not at all unsurprising that the pattern would seek to remove the very dangerous tool it made for a specific purpose.

 

As to the prophecy, it was stated that a remnant of a remnant would survive - it's certainly reasonable to suppose that the remanant was the ones afflicted with the bleakness, and the remnant of that that survive are the ones that come to terms with life in a world where the best answer to any problem is not a spear.

[Maleshub]

1- The Aiel were militarised because they were needed to be the main fighting force that the dragon could rely on. Post Tarmon Gaiden, they become a liability, having fulfilled their purpose. It's not at all unsurprising that the pattern would seek to remove the very dangerous tool it made for a specific purpose.

 

2- As to the prophecy, it was stated that a remnant of a remnant would survive - it's certainly reasonable to suppose that the remanant was the ones afflicted with the bleakness, and the remnant of that that survive are the ones that come to terms with life in a world where the best answer to any problem is not a spear.

 

Point one could apply to any militarized kingdom or empire before Tarmon Gaidin since the DO and his minions would be totally defeated 17 years after Rand sealed him in.

 

But the Aiel's problem is not their military. It is their lack of adaptability to a new land, the Wetlands. They brought Ji'e'toh out of the 3-fold land and tried to hold to it without adaptation, even after it was distorted. And so, they led themselves down a path towards extinction. They fought the Seanchan just for the sake of fighting them.

 

As to the prophecy, I would hope that Rand ends up taking most of their spears to the strike at Shayol Ghul; and that only a remnant of a remnant survive the battle. That's more honorable than Aviendha's vision! It would be sad to see the Aiel, the only nation to follow Rand faithfully and at great expense, to be rewarded with such a terrible ending.

[RandA lThor]

Also, I would not like the Seachan to gain control over all of Randland. That would be sad.

[Terez]

If I were you, I would expect it. It's not incredibly sad in context; they will almost surely have to compromise to get that agreement, which means getting rid of slavery. And we saw with Tylin and Beslan that Tuon doesn't plan on assimilating everything like Hawkwing did; she intends on keeping nations and rulers as they are, outside of the nations that Suroth already made examples of (namely Tarabon and Amadicia).

[RandA lThor]

yes, but inherently, I still hate the seanchan. I think the best part of them currently is Tuon, who is flexible by learning more from mat. However, the idea of damane appals me and I don't like most seanchean.

[Terez]

Karede is pretty awesome too. We really haven't gotten to know very many of them. I like Egeanin, even though her loyalty to the Empire is kind of scary.

[RandA lThor]

I liked the one woman who partnered up with Perrin.

[Maleshub]

One of Linda's theories is that a Seanchan army will show up on the eastern side of the ocean and try to claim the Empire from Tuon. And a comment by a reader on that was that Fortuona might be forced to channel early on in AMoL to flee or fight. Mat would help her reclaim her throne if she gives up the damane (and probably da'covale) concepts.

 

It seems like a neat idea in which the army Fortuona sends to Tar Valon would be the only thing left of the forces loyal to her; And that army under Mat's command would reclaim Altara, Amadicia, Tarabon, Almoth Plain, and eventually Seanchan for Fortuona.

 

If that happens, then the Dragon's peace would happen. And in the long run, Fortuona making Tar Valon as her capital (as hinted at) would not be so terrible.

 

And if this were to happen, the Aiel (or some of them) might side with Fortuona with the promise of freeing all their Wise Ones.

[RandA lThor]

This does mean that the viewing will change because all the Aiel would have died or become beggars in the viewing. I am saying that the viewing is very sad and i do don't want the seanchean to be in control of the whole world.

[Maleshub]

I think the viewing is a warning, not a certainty. And I think the Aiel who follow Fortuona would have to change and become loyal subjects under a special pact like the Ogier. So, ji'e'toh would have to go for them. It would be sei'taer and sei'mosiev instead! Between surviving the Last Battle and the wars to help Fortuona, a remnant of a remnant would survive. Better than the visions outcome!

[Terez]

I tend to think of the Seanchan mainland as a non-entity for AMOL. Things are chaotic enough without bringing that into it. Same goes for Shara.

[Maleshub]

I tend to think of the Seanchan mainland as a non-entity for AMOL. Things are chaotic enough without bringing that into it. Same goes for Shara.

 

I am praying that Seanchan mainland, Shara, Isle of Madmen, and other "closed" areas remain off-screen in AMoL. There are enough loose endings and foretellings to tie up as is.

 

But it was a neat idea on how to get Fortuona to run to Mat and Rand for help and push her over the edge of the damane issue.

 

Strange, but one of the things I hope to see in resolving the Seanchan issue is to see Karede marry Selucia by the end of AMoL.

[RandA lThor]

Although I would have enjoyed Seanchean mainland, Shara, and madmen involvement, it is too late. The only possibilities I see are Crystal Throne moving and weird Aiel being from Shara.

[Terez]

Why would they be from Shara? We already have an explanation for that; the Aiel men who learn they can channel go north to fight the Dark One, and this is presumably what it got them.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Indeed, why would they be from Shara? Geographically, it is a strange place for them to pop up.

 

Shara, if they are involved in any way, will most likely be coming from the sea around Tear and Mayne.

 

And I agree about the Seanchan mainland not being involved. It is a long way to sail, and I am not sure they would get there in a month. (Since we see the red-sails when Rand comes down from Dragonmount. That is, assuming that this wind is accurate time-wise, which it should be.)

[RandA lThor]

Why would they be from Shara? We already have an explanation for that; the Aiel men who learn they can channel go north to fight the Dark One, and this is presumably what it got them.

 

that's the theory that I support, I'm just saying that that is the only possibility i see of Shara coming into play.

[Sharaman]

I'm assuming that Brandon has enough to do tying up current loose ends to want to mess with RJ's stated intention of leaving Seanchan and Shara off the table.

Nevertheless,

You can bring Seanchan reasonably easily into play by variations of the the following plot element. Now that the damane know Travelling, a 'Chan rebel (Galgan for example, or Beslan or somebody) jumps to Seanchan and teaches Travel to Seanchan damane, raises an army and tries to grab the Crystal Throne literally and figuratively. I think the ToM prologue with its murderer sailing in ships with blood-red sails could leave such a plot device open. Then Foruona gets dragged into the picture, etc.

 

It is very difficult and very forced plot-wise to drag Shara into the picture. RJ's style and Brandon's involves a lot of world building before introducing a new race/ people. I don;t think Shara will feature at all though I suppose some character from Shara might.

.