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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Book of Translation


csnyder
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It appears that many plots that are detrimental to the allies of the Light have Dark origins. If we are to assume, for example, that opening the Book of Translation is not beneficial to the Light then indirectly the mere mentioning of it tends to make one suspicious of the Ogier promulgating such a decree. Could a Forsaken be ruining one of Rand's great successes by successfully inflitrating Stedding and removing the seals on the Ways (or through DF Ogier, perhaps?)? Ever since the obvious return of the Forsaken, the Stedding have played relatively little roles in the plot (and are merely shaken off as being of no account due to Loial and Karldin's interference) which makes me think that this exact take-for-grantedness that everyone has will play a huge role in AMoL. The fact that the Great Stump will be taking place at Stedding Shangtai - lacking the seal on the Ways have you - is also suspicious to the motives of all the Ogier.

 

A commonality between the Stedding and the Blight are the locations' otherworldliness. In concordance with the Portal Stones (and Seanchan creatures; post-Theoryland research revealed the grolm WERE species of the Portal World) and Lanfear's knowledge (and surprising skill in the PS's usage) I feel that the Bore shares (like Stedding) some qualities with Parallel Worlds (not Portal Stone Mirror Worlds) and the fact that TAR is inaffective in allowing entrance to the alternate dream versions of said Stedding or the Blight. The Bore, TAR and Mierin's deep-felt respect to the Ogier (potential alien sentients) and her search for alternative power sources all connect...making me suspect that the off-screen nature of Cyndane will place her with the Ogier or using proxy DF Ogier (Covril?) to open the Book.

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there could be df ogier, but i'm still not sure what you are getting at. loial speaks strongly of the ogier allways fighting the shadow, and staying out of "human issues". and covril might by the simple logic that ogier can be dark friends be one, but she is willing to advocate giving loial a chance to speak even though she could have said that she doesn't want him to speak, she isnt swayed but she seems to think that the rest of the ogier should hear his message, as any good debator confronted with a good but counter point would. if there were any time for them to debate opening the book and leaving the world it would be at this point in history, so the existance of the debate should be no suprise. the real question is simply what is the book of translation, and do they have a real established tradition for it hidden in their culture. or is it a third age addition to it?

 

i think they do have a tradition for it, and it is very near the time that the book must open, and you hit upon an interesting non-connection but possible idea that i just randomly thought of, and possibly have seen in part before. could the book be integral to the darkone's prison? could the ogier need to open the book at the right time to help seal away the darkone? and as there can possibly be df ogier, could some of them be working to open the book too early in order to corrupt any type of seal rand can think of without knowing anything about the book?

 

 

EDIT: heh cant enter the blight in tel'aran'rhiod vs the blank in the blight (no connection AT ALL, just found the thought comedic)

Edited by Testy al'Carr
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i think they do have a tradition for it, and it is very near the time that the book must open, and you hit upon an interesting non-connection but possible idea that i just randomly thought of, and possibly have seen in part before. could the book be integral to the darkone's prison? could the ogier need to open the book at the right time to help seal away the darkone? and as there can possibly be df ogier, could some of them be working to open the book too early in order to corrupt any type of seal rand can think of without knowing anything about the book?

 

Wait, can Ogier be DFs? Has that been concluded yet? (If I missed it, forgive me).

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Wait, can Ogier be DFs? Has that been concluded yet? (If I missed it, forgive me).

rj did confirm it, like most i am a lazy bastard so i will leave it to someone else to provide the quote. but yes it is possible for an ogier to be a darkfriend, none have been revealed.

 

EDIT: there has been a revealed aiel darkfriend (mat's aiel fling) and there was a tinker darkfriend was at one of the TAR meetings. we know there are darkfriends in the seanchan, and it can be pretty easily suspected that they are among the seafolk, the only place we can be pretty sure that there are no darkfriends is among the kin, because the shadow had no idea beyond the aes sedai to the size of their organization, let alone getting that cache of items from 1000+ years ago, maybe 2000 under the shadow's controll, but why not ogier? they have wishes and desires like any other, how would they be less vulnerable? aes'sedai arrogance excuses the kin, at least for the most part, but not the ogier.

Edited by Testy al'Carr
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i think they do have a tradition for it, and it is very near the time that the book must open, and you hit upon an interesting non-connection but possible idea that i just randomly thought of, and possibly have seen in part before. could the book be integral to the darkone's prison? could the ogier need to open the book at the right time to help seal away the darkone? and as there can possibly be df ogier, could some of them be working to open the book too early in order to corrupt any type of seal rand can think of without knowing anything about the book?

 

Wait, can Ogier be DFs? Has that been concluded yet? (If I missed it, forgive me).

 

http://13depository....01_archive.html

 

In the Wotmania/Dragonmount interview in 2002 Jordan was asked if Ogier can be Darkfriends and answered: “Of course”.
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Wait, can Ogier be DFs? Has that been concluded yet? (If I missed it, forgive me).

rj did confirm it, like most i am a lazy bastard so i will leave it to someone else to provide the quote. but yes it is possible for an ogier to be a darkfriend, none have been revealed.

 

EDIT: there has been a revealed aiel darkfriend (mat's aiel fling) and there was a tinker darkfriend was at one of the TAR meetings. we know there are darkfriends in the seanchan, and it can be pretty easily suspected that they are among the seafolk, the only place we can be pretty sure that there are no darkfriends is among the kin, because the shadow had no idea beyond the aes sedai to the size of their organization, let alone getting that cache of items from 1000+ years ago, maybe 2000 under the shadow's controll, but why not ogier? they have wishes and desires like any other, how would they be less vulnerable? aes'sedai arrogance excuses the kin, at least for the most part, but not the ogier.

 

The whole non-human thing is why I wondered. I mean, what's next a shadowspawn that can reject the shadow? And did the entire Kin know about the Cache or just the knitting circle?

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i think they do have a tradition for it, and it is very near the time that the book must open, and you hit upon an interesting non-connection but possible idea that i just randomly thought of, and possibly have seen in part before. could the book be integral to the darkone's prison? could the ogier need to open the book at the right time to help seal away the darkone? and as there can possibly be df ogier, could some of them be working to open the book too early in order to corrupt any type of seal rand can think of without knowing anything about the book?

 

Wait, can Ogier be DFs? Has that been concluded yet? (If I missed it, forgive me).

 

http://13depository....01_archive.html

 

In the Wotmania/Dragonmount interview in 2002 Jordan was asked if Ogier can be Darkfriends and answered: “Of course”.

 

Thanks for the quote. Interesting read!

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The whole non-human thing is why I wondered. I mean, what's next a shadowspawn that can reject the shadow? And did the entire Kin know about the Cache or just the knitting circle?

about the artifacts, i think it is likely that only the knitting circle would have known, but as the knitting circle cycles out on a pretty regular basis, that would encompass a pretty large number of people over even 200 years, but i realy dont know if it was generaly known by the kin. i'm sure someone with better knowledge on the subject than i will be along eventualy.

 

EDIT: sorry for the detour

Edited by Testy al'Carr
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Haha, I am quite used to it - I tend to treat these threads much alike an Aes Sedai does with saidar.

There is evidence in a Theoryland interview where RJ says that the area around the Blight is not of this universe (will be back with the URL soon in an EDIT) and that is why it cannot be accessed via TAR (maybe this is why the Shadowspawn cannot go through the Travelgates?).

 

As far as the Knitting Circle goes, I felt that although there is only one Knitting Circle there are probably many versions of the Farm (was it ever capitalized?) all over Randland (so many Elders dot the land as well, assumedly). For that matter, has it been plainly stated that the Kin must travel to Ebou Dar? With all of these little farms dotting the landscape you would think that some powerful women were captured by the Seanchan (wouldn't it be grand if the meek Kin took down the Seanchan from the inside with all of their respect for the AS?). I know it states that no Kin could be DF, and I don't mean to challenge this (and most evidence follows through; for example, Careane and Ispan show surprise at their numbers and attempt to off them in what I would assume to be plots to cause dissension and distrust), but the Cache being unknown to the Shadow is barely evidence (maybe the upper echelon of the Kin were all Lightfriends by chance?). However, how did Moghedien know where to send Ispan and Falion? Was it via Dream or something else? ...Now we are on a tangent... :)

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