Fain, Shadar Logoth

[Heists]

Hi so I recently finished the series (or what there is so far). I have a a couple questions regarding it that have bugged me for a while. I have scoured forums but so far have not found anything too useful.

 

First off, Fain comes into the story very early and slowly loses importance. I never understood him since he starts a DF and becomes more? He is diffent the the forsaken but on a similair level. He is connected to Shadar Logoth and draws power from it?

 

Also what does Rand do to Logoth to cleanse the taint? A large amount of the OP was used but i always thought of Logoth as a seperate evil. Unless any evil is connected to the DO?

 

I apologize if this is the wrong thing to post on a new thread.. or if the answers are obvious. I loved the books and cant wait for the last!

[Suttree]

Hi so I recently finished the series (or what there is so far). I have a a couple questions regarding it that have bugged me for a while. I have scoured forums but so far have not found anything too useful.

 

First off, Fain comes into the story very early and slowly loses importance. I never understood him since he starts a DF and becomes more? He is diffent the the forsaken but on a similair level. He is connected to Shadar Logoth and draws power from it?

 

Also what does Rand do to Logoth to cleanse the taint? A large amount of the OP was used but i always thought of Logoth as a seperate evil. Unless any evil is connected to the DO?

 

I apologize if this is the wrong thing to post on a new thread.. or if the answers are obvious. I loved the books and cant wait for the last!

 

First off, not sure how much you have read but Fain most certainly does not lose importance. Quite confidant in saying he will play a pivotal role in the conclusion.

 

As for how Rand cleansed the taint...

 

Emma: Can you give some more details on how the taint was cleansed? I was sort of confused reading the book.

RJ: You don't think it's obvious?

Err, let's see. You have.. You're using both repulsion and attraction of opposites here. Repulsion of things that are opposite and repulsion of things that are the same. The Taint upon [saidin] as versus the conduit, which is made of saidar through which the saidin passes. The saidin and saidar, as men and women, are in many ways opposite. It repels one another. It is safe to make this conduit of saidar between saidin and Shadar Logoth, because there can be no mixing. As the eh.. as [saidin] passes through, as the taint passes through, the saidar actually repels it, pushes it away from [saidin]..., alright? Now, you have a taint on... the eh Source, the male half of the Source, you have the taint on Shadar Logoth. They're not the same, yet they are. The taint on Shadar Logoth did not come from the Dark One. The taint was created by humans, who believed that they must do whatever was necessary, anything that was necessary to defeat the Shadow. And because they would accept no limits to what they would do, to what could be done, to what needed to be done, they created their own destruction. Their evil is, or was, as great as that of the Dark One, but diametrically opposite. It is an evil created for the best of intentions, created for good intentions. So it is the opposite. So, this attraction created the conduit begins to pull the taint from [saidin] to siphon it off. Remember, it's always been described it's not at mixed all through [saidin], it is like a thin skin of rancidness, think of a thin skin of rancid oil floating on a pond, and if you get through it, you've got clean water, but you can't get through it without putting your hand in that oil. You're getting it on your hand... To attract one another because they are opposites, but because even being opposite, they have gone far enough around the circle, they act to destroy one another. You see, it's not opposites along a straight line. We're actually talking opposites along a circle. Continuing the motif of the Wheel of Time, if you will. So you've got two things that are both opposites and the same. That will both attract one another and negate one another.

 

https://docs.google.com/View?docID=dcjspjqg_66gfzm5tfx&revision=_latest

[dEVabox]

First off, Fain comes into the story very early and slowly loses importance. I never understood him since he starts a DF and becomes more? He is diffent the the forsaken but on a similair level. He is connected to Shadar Logoth and draws power from it?

 

Time for a re-read,

 

Fain never lost his importance. Disappeared for long periods? Yeah. He is only now a DF in the regard that he isn't quite a friend to the light, but otherwise he is no DF. He does not draw power from Shadar Logoth: The evil from Shadar is so strong that it breeds on itself. That's why the taint from the dagger almost kills people instantly, and why Fain keeps "evolving".

 

Also what does Rand do to Logoth to cleanse the taint? A large amount of the OP was used but i always thought of Logoth as a seperate evil. Unless any evil is connected to the DO?

 

There should be a topic or two on this already: It would be much simpler to read about the cleansing at Wiki: Cleansing of Saidin

[Heists]

First off, Fain comes into the story very early and slowly loses importance. I never understood him since he starts a DF and becomes more? He is diffent the the forsaken but on a similair level. He is connected to Shadar Logoth and draws power from it?

 

Time for a re-read,

 

Fain never lost his importance. Disappeared for long periods? Yeah. He is only now a DF in the regard that he isn't quite a friend to the light, but otherwise he is no DF. He does not draw power from Shadar Logoth: The evil from Shadar is so strong that it breeds on itself. That's why the taint from the dagger almost kills people instantly, and why Fain keeps "evolving".

 

Also what does Rand do to Logoth to cleanse the taint? A large amount of the OP was used but i always thought of Logoth as a seperate evil. Unless any evil is connected to the DO?

 

There should be a topic or two on this already: It would be much simpler to read about the cleansing at Wiki: Cleansing of Saidin

 

 

Okay thanks that helps a lot on the cleansing.. but Fain still bugs me. He was brought to the DO and made very powerful but he is also affected by the dagger. He is feared my Myrrdrael but you say he is not really a DF anymore? I did not mean he loses importance, more that he lost prominence throughout the story like RJ or BS did not know what to do with him. He hates rand but appears almost at random.

[Maleshub]

We know that Fain will play a role in book 14: AMoL. So, he isn't done yet.

[Duskfire]

Fain does strike me as a character who could have been in the series more. I sort of understand what the OP is saying; from about after the fourth onwards, we saw little snippets of him if at all and that was that. In SR though he was awesome. Definetly an unfulfilled character to some extent.

[dEVabox]

Okay thanks that helps a lot on the cleansing.. but Fain still bugs me. He was brought to the DO and made very powerful but he is also affected by the dagger. He is feared my Myrrdrael but you say he is not really a DF anymore? I did not mean he loses importance, more that he lost prominence throughout the story like RJ or BS did not know what to do with him. He hates rand but appears almost at random.

 

Fain wasn't made more powerful by the DO exactly. He was, shall we say, over the years distilled then pumped full of information again, most of it useless to him personally. The info pulled him/DO closer and closer to the potential Dragon Reborn. As described in the Wiki, when Mordeth tried to take over Fain's body, Mordeth was only able to merge with Fain, not take over him completely. More in the wiki: Padan Fain

 

He does seem to appear at random, but remember: Whenever he does appear, he does something special. The Children of Light would not have come to Two Rivers were it not for him, Rand wouldn't have gotten the idea to remove the taint, Rand wouldn't have become harder (theoretically) if not for Fain's attack in Far Madding which led to Rand's short capture, etc etc. He hates the Dark One for what was done to him but holds Rand most all to blame.

[dazparra]

i like the character Fain, and in particular am really hoping there's a showdown between him and one of the forsaken at some point.

We know from earlier books that slayer was orded to track down and kill Fain... and it seemed to me that the forsaken would love to take him out if they run across him as well.

 

would be a great showdown, Fain v Chosen.

 

i hope to see it in the last book.

[emozilla]

Given all of the LotR parallels in WoT I view Fain as the complete mirror Gollum -- not evil in the same way the other "evil" characters are, but driven crazy by a lust for vengeance, etc. Look for Fain to play a very Gollum-ish role at TG in AMoL! (I wouldn't be suprised if he wasn't integral in the demise of the DO)

[hazelkrs1]

Given all of the LotR parallels in WoT I view Fain as the complete mirror Gollum -- not evil in the same way the other "evil" characters are, but driven crazy by a lust for vengeance, etc. Look for Fain to play a very Gollum-ish role at TG in AMoL! (I wouldn't be suprised if he wasn't integral in the demise of the DO)

 

This. So much this.