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War of Shadow inconsistency


Glexn
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I'm doing my pre-AMOL re-reread, and I noticed something odd. It's been a while since I read the Guide, and I don't have my copy any more so I cannot check, but I think there are two contradictions. If I remember correctly, The Collapse took approximately 130 years. After that, the War of Shadow started. In the Guide I remember reading that the actual war with the Shadowspawn lasted about a decade before the Strike on Shayol Ghul. Now, in The Shadow Rising, when Rand goes through the ter'angreal, he sees through the eyes of someone who hears that the war is over. The character is sixteen, and says (paraphrase) 'the war was old when he was born'.

Also, there's another contradiction. When Rand is in the company of Asmodean, he loses himself for a moment and says, (paraphrase) "I remember when Tel Janin razed the Hall of Servants, and was named The Betrayed of Hope. Hope truly did seem to die that day." Yet in the ter'angreal, Rand sees through the eyes of a Dashain, and it is clearly post-Bore Sealing. This Dashain walks into the Hall of Servants to speak with the female Aes Sedai, discussing what do to about a Fortelling about the Dragon being Reborn and Callandor. Clearly, the Dragon is dead and the Breaking has begun. So how could Rand remember razing the Hall of Servants if he was dead while it was still standing?

 

Am I missing something? I should also mention, my copy of TSR is a first print run, so are these just errors that were corrected in later prints?

 

Also, if anyone has a copy of the Guide they wish to sell, I'll be happy to pay through the butt for it. It's listed as out-of-print in Australia.

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the hall of the servants was destroyed shortly before lews therin attacked th bore, days infact so very close. The dashain aiel event was after the sealing, probably at a temorary hall or anoher place belonging to the aes sedai.

Edited by rand4747
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I'm thinking the "Hall of Servants" is simply the place where members of that organization meet. Just because the building was destroyed doesn't mean it's members ever stopped being part of the Hall, and couldn't just make it somewhere else.

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Lews Therin mentions the ten years to Ishamael in the Prologue to TEOTW, too. I think the context of Coumin's thought helps explain it.

His father's greatfather, Charn, claimed that there had been no soldiers once, but Coumin did not believe it. If there were no soldiers, who would stop the Nightriders and the Trollocs from coming to kill everyone? Of course, Charn claimed there had not been any Myrddraal or Trollocs then, either. No Forsaken, no Shadowwrought. He had many stories he claimed were from a time before soldiers and Nightriders and Trollocs, when he said the Dark Lord of the Grave had been bound away, and no one knew his name, or the word "war." Coumin could not imagine such a world; the war had been old when he was born.

It sounds like he's talking about the Collapse and the War of Power as if they were one continuous war, not just the War of Power as "the war." This time before "the war" is a time when there were no Forsaken (but we know that Ishy and others publicly went over to the Shadow early in the Collapse) and when the DO was still bound (i.e. before the Bore). Thus, this time before the war seems to be before the Collapse. And the Collapse, at least according to the guide, took about 100-110 years (as you note), so that timeline makes sense.

 

On the other, I think you may have the wrong reference. The passage is quoted below.

"I remember when he was first named Destroyer of Hope. After he betrayed the Gates of Hevan, and carried the Shadow down into the Rorn M'doi and the heart of Satelle. Hope did seem to die that day, Culan Cuhan wept."

No reference to the Hall of Servants. Paaren Disen was the site of a great victory for the Light, where LTT defeated Ishamael, not a great defeat.

Edited by Kelandon
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Also, there's another contradiction. When Rand is in the company of Asmodean, he loses himself for a moment and says, (paraphrase) "I remember when Tel Janin razed the Hall of Servants, and was named The Betrayed of Hope. Hope truly did seem to die that day." Yet in the ter'angreal, Rand sees through the eyes of a Dashain, and it is clearly post-Bore Sealing. This Dashain walks into the Hall of Servants to speak with the female Aes Sedai, discussing what do to about a Fortelling about the Dragon being Reborn and Callandor. Clearly, the Dragon is dead and the Breaking has begun. So how could Rand remember razing the Hall of Servants if he was dead while it was still standing?

Okay, I looked again and found the right reference. It's in TDR, when Moiraine asks Loial what he remembers about Be'lal.

I do not know what can be in the stories about him you do not already know. He is not much mentioned, except in the razing of the Hall of the Servants just before Lews Therin Kinslayer and the Hundred Companions sealed him up with the Dark One.

Then the relevant passage in TSR, where Jonai actually walks into the Hall of the Servants. When the Bore is sealed, Coumin is 16. In the next scene, Jonai, his son, is 63. Given that Coumin was that day beginning to be considered a man ("the women had decided his voice was finally deep enough to join in the seed singing"), he probably doesn't have a son yet, so Jonai's scene is probably a good 60-70 years after Coumin's, at least.

 

In Jonai's scene, he mentions "shattered buildings" and "dead chora trees," as well as "[a]ftershocks." It sounds as though Paaren Disen has been hit hard by the Breaking by this point (and maybe earlier by the War of Power). He observes, at the Hall of the Servants, a "great columned entrance," an anteroom with "broad stairs" with mud on the "silvery white elstone," "great gilded doors," giant halls, and lots of other things that sound great, sprawling, expensive, and not very well maintained. This is a fancy building, though it has seen better days. It's still standing, though; the worst that is said of it is that it is muddy and dirty.

 

Given that, my best guess is that Loial was just wrong. He's talking about oral history from the Ogier passed down for over three thousand years. Maybe Be'lal assaulted Paaren Disen shortly before the sealing, but he didn't raze the Hall of the Servants. Maybe the story is completely invented. Maybe it was some other city, maybe with some other, lesser Hall of the Servants. (This is what other people are saying, but I don't entirely buy it. Every reference to the Hall of the Servants is to "the" Hall of the Servants, as if there is only one.) But he didn't take down the Hall of the Servants at Paaren Disen.

 

The alternative, I suppose, is, in the aftermath of the sealing, they rebuilt the Hall of the Servants. Something like 60 of the Companions were alive and mad immediately after the sealing, but there were tons of other male Aes Sedai who needed several years to go mad, and most of the technology of the Age of Legends was still intact at that point. Right after the sealing, people may have attempted to go back to their pre-War of Power lives and undo the damage from the Collapse.

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Aginor said he faced LTT in the Hall of Servants and met him stroke for stroke. Moghedien says this to the black sisters "Did you taste the sweetness of victory at Paraan Disen". I think she also said something at one point about dancing in the rubble of the Hall of Servants, or something similar.

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