Pillowfriends

[Eichhörnchen]

and since when do you of all posters think a topic has been discussed to death

 

When it is convenient

 

If RJ was more like GRRM, he'd have written in detail about all the prostitutes who usually followed the armies. But apparently, as he said himself, in Randland there was no prostitution.

 

 

Riiiiiiight. No prostitution in Randland. And the entire having a sexual relationship in the Shaido camp for protection and preferred status is absolutely nothing remotely similar to what is prostitution.

[Guest PiotrekS]

Don't blame me, RJ said so :tongue

 

I'm sure the 13th Depository covers everything

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

i don't tink a nine horse hitch was free...

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

though there should of course be a tremendous discount.

[Eichhörnchen]

Yeah I just think RJ was going senile towards the end before he hit the bucket. Especially it seems ludicrous to think that in a land struck by famine that some women wouldn't whore out for a bite of food either for themselves or their kids (dad died fighting for the Dragon) from wealthier men, especially since RJ already makes a point to portray the Randland nobles and merchants with a less than flattering moral compass.

[Guest PiotrekS]

though there should of course be a tremendous discount.

 

 

13th Depository on nine horse hitch

 

 

I like the name "place for casual encounter". It reminds me of the house of negotiable affection from Discworld.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

interesting how he contradicts himself in that quote. i think

the affection was negotiable as it always is to some extent. more or less obviously.

 

and that's a proper derail

[XXX]

Well RJ as a heterosexual man probably had a fantasy for lesbians...and considering that straight women typically do not seem to have a similar fascination with gay men, he has every group covered except for gay men.

[Guest PiotrekS]

interesting how he contradicts himself in that quote. i think

the affection was negotiable as it always is to some extent. more or less obviously.

 

and that's a proper derail

 

A nice and proper derail

 

Sometimes affection is negotiable, sometimes is is purely random and wild and makes no sense at all, as I've discovered

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

something is usually being negotiated. social negotiations don't always involve exchanges of goods and services.

 

well. not goods anyway.

[Eichhörnchen]

Well RJ as a heterosexual man probably had a fantasy for lesbians...and considering that straight women typically do not seem to have a similar fascination with gay men, he has every group covered except for gay men.

 

 

Ehm. The main target group for male-to-male sexual romance/erotic novels are heterosexual women between the ages of 19-50.

[b3arz3rg3r]

Yeah I just think RJ was going senile towards the end before he hit the bucket. Especially it seems ludicrous to think that in a land struck by famine that some women wouldn't whore out for a bite of food either for themselves or their kids (dad died fighting for the Dragon) from wealthier men, especially since RJ already makes a point to portray the Randland nobles and merchants with a less than flattering moral compass.

I think he was talking about organized prostitution. Obviously there are people who use sex in return for money or other goods, but that holds true for men as well as women. Afterall Mat's stint as Tylin's pretty wasn't all that different in principle I'd say.

 

Also, RJ just wrote a "cleaner" sort of fantasy than GRRM or most of the younger generation of fantasy authors do. In the 57 years since LotR the fantasy genre has become more and more realistic. Where Tolkien wrote in a very idealized manner, nowadays people demand realism in a fantastic setting and RJ was somewhere in the middle of this development. Thus the absence of or atleast the disguised portrayal of things like rape or torture on page. He acknoledged their existence, but instead of showing them he chose to tell us about them.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

he wrote some very detailed torture well beyond spanking and some intense bodage.

[ElusiveAthena]

Just no-one read "The Conan Chronicles". They're aweful.

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

love conan but i stick to the comics. and movies.

[Guest PiotrekS]

It is really hard to match GRRM in detailed descriptions of torture. What he did to "Reek" in his last book was disgusting.

 

I haven't read Conan, i admit. I would like to, but it's not the first position on my "to-read" list.

[master]

It is really hard to match GRRM in detailed descriptions of torture. What he did to "Reek" in his last book was disgusting.

 

The descriptions werent that detailed. They were second hand, there wasn't any description of the actual torure. I definately prefer it over the stuff laurell k hamilton writes. Comparing jordan to her would be like comparing ghandi to hitler

[Eichhörnchen]

It is really hard to match GRRM in detailed descriptions of torture. What he did to "Reek" in his last book was disgusting.

 

The descriptions werent that detailed. They were second hand, there wasn't any description of the actual torure. I definately prefer it over the stuff laurell k hamilton writes. Comparing jordan to her would be like comparing ghandi to hitler

 

I'm not sure the difference is too far-fetched. Ghandhi much like Hitler both like animals and both were racist to the core and strong proponents of segregationism:

 

Why, of all places in Johannesburg, the Indian Location should be chosen for

dumping down all the Kaffirs of the town passes my comprehension…the Town

Council must withdraw the Kaffirs from the Location.” (Reference: CWMG, Vol I, pp. 244-245)

 

His description of black inmates: “Only a degree removed from the animal.” Also,

“Kaffirs are as a rule uncivilized – the convicts even more so. They are troublesome,

very dirty and live almost like animals.” – Mar. 7, 1908 (Reference: CWMG, Vol VIII, pp. 135-136)

 

On his opinion on South African politics and his support for white colonial supremacy over uncultured natives. Gandhi let out this gem;

"We believe as much in the purity of race as we think they do, only we believe that they would best serve these interests, which are as dear to us as to them, by advocating the purity of all races, and not one alone. We believe also that the white race of South Africa should be the predominating race." September 24, 1903

 

Or on his chagrin at Indians compared to "Kaffirs (South African term for "n*gger");

"Ours is one continued struggle against degradation sought to be inflicted upon us by the European, who desire to degrade us to the level of the raw Kaffir, whose occupation is hunting and whose sole ambition is to collect a certain number of cattle to buy a wife with, and then pass his life in indolence and nakedness." (1) 26 September 1896

 

Gandhi wrote extensively about his experiences with the blacks of South Africa. He always termed them “Kaffirs” and his writings reveal a deep-seated disdain for these African natives.

[Guest PiotrekS]

New heights in off-topicism have just been reached. We've discussed lesbians and gay men in WOT, prostitution and/or negotiable affection, tortures in fantasy - and now the new gem, Hitler-Ghandi comparison!

 

So, about the pillowfriends...

[Plato]

just because someone says "Comparing jordan to her would be like comparing ghandi to hitler" doesn't mean you have to go out and actually do it!

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

i don't think you understand how to derail a thread, sir.

[ElusiveAthena]

*hugs my pillow defensively*

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

*hugs my pillow affectionately*

[Mrs. Cindy Gill]

this will turn into a game thread yet.

[Alric]

It is on the other hand weird how Siuan and Moiraine walk away from each other and this relationship, which tended to be very close from what we can gather from New Spring, just ceases to be without any kind of...Anything. Some people has criticized RJ for treating Siuan's and Moiraine's relatinship not seriously enough, in "lesbian until graduation" kind of way. But who knows how this relationships really work? Certainly not me

Considering New Spring:

 

The Moiraine/Siuan relationship wasn't exactly treated badly, but compared to other relationships it was not done as well as we have come to expect from RJ.

 

Part of the problem is New Spring. The ending was way too short. After Moiraine kills Merean (brave badass Moiraine at her best ) everything just apruptly ends. Moiraine and Siuan's goodbye is barely mentioned and practically on the next page she bonds Lan and its over. NS suffers because of that abrupt ending. I'm not sure if he did it that way because he expected to follow up with a sequel shortly (but later they were put on hold) or that he was pushed to work on the main series. But that fact is unfortunate both for NS and for Moiraine/Siuan.