one word....Asmodean..... ;-)

[SinisterDeath]

Think of wards like radar.

You can only put one ward, in the area it effects. If one ward effects 20 feet radius, you can only have that one ward, in that area else it cancels it's effect with a 2nd ward. *I think thats true regardless of person or power?*

Rhavin, laced the city with wards that told him, of male channelers, so he could target them with lightning..

Rhavin wouldnt be stupid and put up ones for females.. because, who would he fear? One of the forsaken wouldnt openly attack him, even though he doesnt trust them, That and Morgrase can technically channel, and he probably wouldnt have put wards up for females.. becuase, it be pointless waisting time/energy killing someone that wasnt rand..

[SinisterDeath]

Umm' date=' bob you do realize, that the first 3 books, and the last 8 books, are rather different in there descriptions of the one power right? Those were gateways/skimming that were used, not something completely different. It just happens that RJ has changed his descriptions of them. There are numerous cases of this through out the series, that I don't feel the need of proving, since it should be self evident.[/quote']

 

What part of, "Different from the gateway he had made to Skim to Caemlyn, or the one to Travel." is giving you trouble?

 

Um, yea, Bob I Was reffering to

 

They used something functionally equivalent to a gateway in that it connected two places. But physically it is different from both a Skimming Gateway and a Travelling Gateway

 

Way to jump off the band wagon huh?

I'm telling you, that they were gateways. The only differnce is that it didnt connect to there reality, it connected to the dream world. Same weave everything, just different/same destination.

[Bob T Dwarf]

That's pretty much what "different from" means.

 

Whatever it is, it is unlike any other weave connecting two places. Unlike...as in "not the same as," as in "functions in a unique, unknown, or changed manner."

[Jedimuppet]

That's pretty much what "different from" means.

 

Whatever it is' date=' it is unlike any other weave connecting two places. Unlike...as in "not the same as," as in "functions in a unique, unknown, or changed manner."[/quote']

 

I'm sorry, but what was the point of the gateway argument?

J

[Graendals favourite]

The weave is different, but creates a gateway.

 

 

The point of the gateway argument is to show Lanfear couldn't just disappear into T'a'r in Falme after showing herself to Min. Thus moving with an invisibility mask is possible.

[Jedimuppet]

The weave is different' date=' but creates a gateway.

 

 

The point of the gateway argument is to show Lanfear couldn't just disappear into T'a'r in Falme after showing herself to Min. Thus moving with an invisibility mask is possible.[/quote']

 

Oh man, the lengths we go to...i'm going to have to go ahead and say that I think this discussion is going a bit far afield. While I admit that it *could* be relevant, I think we'll find that the killer did not move invisibly through the halls of Caemlyn.

 

J

[Jedimuppet]

The weave is different' date=' but creates a gateway.

 

 

The point of the gateway argument is to show Lanfear couldn't just disappear into T'a'r in Falme after showing herself to Min. Thus moving with an invisibility mask is possible.[/quote']

 

Oh and by the way, when Avi first made a gateway that gave Rand the idea, she did it in a completely different way than Elayne does it. Remember when the girls were coming back from Ebou Dar and Elayne felt bad because Avi wasn't able to adapt to her way of doing the gateway?

 

Not to mention that women have a completely different way of doing it. They align the pattern to match their needs, while men poke a hole.

 

Different weaves, *all* gateways...nuff said.

J

[SinisterDeath]

hmm, re-reading that paragraph for the 3rd time now, I see what they were reffering to as a different weave.. However it's only vaguely different because of there destination... Isnt it possible that "gateways" change there weaving due to there location? Ie when you go from one point to another you have to tear a hole through space. In order to to that the weave has to alter a tiny bit for every place you go. *Thats why if you read the residue, you go to where they went, not to where ever you think you want to go.*

Meaning, the weaving is still the same proccess, but because the place they were going to "dream world" The weave apeared different, because of the destination. Same process, slightly different.

Either way, its a pointless debate, rj tends to describe things differently through out the books as it progresses.

[Graendals favourite]

Yea, to both. The significance of the invisibility is merely, that it is possible. So should Graendal think it prudent, she could well use it, or a different mask. She could just as well have been that myrtle tree under which Asmodean played :) . So it is perfectly easy for her to go about in the palace, and even reasonable that we didn't see her.

[Jedimuppet]

hmm' date=' re-reading that paragraph for the 3rd time now, I see what they were reffering to as a different weave.. However it's only vaguely different because of there destination... Isnt it possible that "gateways" change there weaving due to there location? Ie when you go from one point to another you have to tear a hole through space. In order to to that the weave has to alter a tiny bit for every place you go. *Thats why if you read the residue, you go to where they went, not to where ever you think you want to go.*

Meaning, the weaving is still the same proccess, but because the place they were going to "dream world" The weave apeared different, because of the destination. Same process, slightly different.

Either way, its a pointless debate, rj tends to describe things differently through out the books as it progresses.[/quote']

 

Only men "tear a hole", women actually line the pattern up more like a wormhole. In fact, Moghi expresses shock when Egwene suggests poking a hole. Moghi says that's how men do it, and it wouldn't be a good idea for a woman to try. She doesn't know what would happen.

J

[SinisterDeath]

If the "invisibility" is anything like the "mask of mirrors" or whatever its called.. wouldnt that also mean, moving would make it not work right?

Speaking of such...

 

Rand puts a ward of invisibility around Egwene, or was it Avi? In Cairhan. So we do know for a fact, that invisibility is possible if you stay still, or behind the "ward".

[SinisterDeath]

hmm' date=' re-reading that paragraph for the 3rd time now, I see what they were reffering to as a different weave.. However it's only vaguely different because of there destination... Isnt it possible that "gateways" change there weaving due to there location? Ie when you go from one point to another you have to tear a hole through space. In order to to that the weave has to alter a tiny bit for every place you go. *Thats why if you read the residue, you go to where they went, not to where ever you think you want to go.*

Meaning, the weaving is still the same proccess, but because the place they were going to "dream world" The weave apeared different, because of the destination. Same process, slightly different.

Either way, its a pointless debate, rj tends to describe things differently through out the books as it progresses.[/quote']

 

Only men "tear a hole", women actually line the pattern up more like a wormhole. In fact, Moghi expresses shock when Egwene suggests poking a hole. Moghi says that's how men do it, and it wouldn't be a good idea for a woman to try. She doesn't know what would happen.

J

 

I was only reffering to Men in that paragraph, I didnt mean anything relating graendal or lanfear.

I know women merge, and men tear.. Never said likewise, or meant to..

Speaking of such, that, don't read the above with a dirty mind! :P

[Jedimuppet]

If the "invisibility" is anything like the "mask of mirrors" or whatever its called.. wouldnt that also mean' date=' moving would make it not work right?

Speaking of such...

 

Rand puts a ward of invisibility around Egwene, or was it Avi? In Cairhan. So we do know for a fact, that invisibility is possible if you stay still, or behind the "ward".[/quote']

 

Invisibility's a given. I believe the debate centered on what movement did to that weave. Let's face it, I doubt there's any difference between disquising yourself as a person, or as empty air...it's all just a different kind of illusion.

 

I'm telling you, though. Graendel was not invisible when she killed Asmo, nor did she use invisibility to lurk through the halls.

J

[Graendals favourite]

Yea, Rand's invisibility rippled when Egwene moved, when he set it on her. He then set it on the place she was in.

 

But Lanfear seemed to do that, and she wouldn't have stood there indefinitely, so obviously she could set it on herself and move. Perhaps she set it on her dress, or just did it right. I can't imagine what else it could have been, since it's explicitly said, one moment she was there, the next gone.

[SinisterDeath]

It would be excedingly difficult for anyone to do that I think, specially trying to keep being invisible, and inverting your channeling self thing? *Elayne says in a later books, that they learned from moggy, that they could hide they were channeling, from other channelers.. not to sure how but they can... But trying to keep that hidden, plus remain invisible would be very very difficult.... So I think, if graendal did kill asmo, she would have had a better time with a mask of mirrors..

[Jedimuppet]

It would be excedingly difficult for anyone to do that I think' date=' specially trying to keep being invisible, and inverting your channeling self thing? *Elayne says in a later books, that they learned from moggy, that they could hide they were channeling, from other channelers.. not to sure how but they can... But trying to keep that hidden, plus remain invisible would be very very difficult.... So I think, if graendal did kill asmo, she would have had a better time with a mask of mirrors..[/quote']

 

exactly...she probably let it drop as soon as she saw him.

 

Don't forget compulsion, too. She could compel her way through a battlefield.

J

[Graendals favourite]

I seem to remember, that you cannot do anything else behind an invisibility: Moiraine in Malkier I think it was. And not kill Asmo anyway like that, it's useful to shock him first.

 

But invisibility explains her actions in Illian, when she takes those ter'angreal from Sammael's chambers while Rand and the other puppies are in and out all the time.

 

But it is completely possibly to look in on Mat and Rand in Caemlyn unseen without that, too, just masked differently. Little non-obvious stealth and care.

[Graendals favourite]

Certainly, with any disguise, you tie it off and invert the knot, so it can't be seen or sensed and you don't have to worry about it.

 

Compulsion was not even an option, her not knowing whether Asmodean was holding the Power. It's thought by Sammael it doesn't work when he holds the power.

[Jedimuppet]

Certainly' date=' with any disguise, you tie it off and invert the knot, so it can't be seen or sensed and you don't have to worry about it.

 

Compulsion was not even an option, her not knowing whether Asmodean was holding the Power.[/quote']

Not compulsion on Asmo, compulsion to walk around unbothered.

J

[SinisterDeath]

The Female forsaken don't actually know how to tell that do they? I remember moggy saying she tried to teach elayne/nyneave, however later saying something along the lines of saying she taught them wrong, and gave them headaches...

[Jedimuppet]

Certainly' date=' with any disguise, you tie it off and invert the knot, so it can't be seen or sensed and you don't have to worry about it.

 

Compulsion was not even an option, her not knowing whether Asmodean was holding the Power.[/quote']

Not compulsion on Asmo, compulsion to walk around unbothered.

J

Oh, and she likes to screw with people. I think she dropped whatever disquise it was so that Asmo would know who was whacking him.

J

[Graendals favourite]

Aah, yea, such a thing could well be possible.

[Jedimuppet]

The Female forsaken don't actually know how to tell that do they? I remember moggy saying she tried to teach elayne/nyneave' date=' however later saying something along the lines of saying she taught them wrong, and gave them headaches...[/quote']

 

Yeah, she was messing with them. I don't think it's possible without a ter'angreal.

J

[Graendals favourite]

Asmo seeing Graendal suddenly slows his reactions compared to her just attacking her unseen. The Forsaken seem to be able to notice a direct attack.

 

There's a method known the Aes Sedai to detect a man channelling (the rebels: CoT & KoD), but I don't think for whether he holds the power.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Yea' date=' Rand's invisibility rippled when Egwene moved, when he set it on her. He then set it on the place she was in.

 

But Lanfear seemed to do that, and she wouldn't have stood there indefinitely, so obviously she could set it on herself and move. Perhaps she set it on her dress, or just did it right. I can't imagine what else it could have been, since it's explicitly said, one moment she was there, the next gone.[/quote']

 

She steps out of T'A'R and then she steps back in again. Remember Min can't channel. She wouldn't see any weaves.