[ADVANCED/KITCHEN SINK] The Axe or the Hammer - GAME OVER

[Levity]

I wasn't especially in love with Soyo's reasoning, though.

[Leyrann]

I will note that I'm wary to condemn Amega (and those who are after him right now) so early in the game

like I said in the dead thread for the Naruto game I think sometimes people take advantage of Amega's spelling/grammatical errors and make him out to seem more scummy than he really is

I concur.

 

I see no particularly glaring case on Amega right now. There isn't anything necessarily wrong with refusing to partake in the jokevoting phase. Not everyone does it, and although mafia may tend to shy away from it at times, I really saw nothing wrong with Amega's reasoning. If he merely wants to voice his opinion on jokevoting, he shouldn't be condemned for something so simple. I don't like the train forming on him right now and would rather abstain from joining it.

 

I agree with this.

[Levity]

Oh, and unvote: Nyn since I don't really see a reason to leave that there.

[hotpocket2006]

I figured you weren't joke voting me, but you never stated a reason.

Don't really have one

 

IIRC I saw someone vote you and figured that would make a good start and followed suit

 

See I hate this line of jumping on a train just because. One it's an oportunistic way for scum to jump on a train, and for two it doesn't work a lot of the time. We learned that in Amegas game when everyone jumped on key right in the beginning and we didn't learn anything Day 1. It's a ridiculous line of thinking. You just jump on someone and make them claim early with no reason.

 

I didn't see that as a vanilla softclaim... just as a statement. And even if it were, exposing it out in the open like that is a neutral move in my opinion.

 

Agreed.

 

because they dont get started...eventually one person does something to start it like me and nolder just did, but i have seen day one drag on and then activity levels go to nothing cause every one's bored of it...and ive already said that its a great way to delay day one. skimming much??Also how exactly do joke votes get the game started, beside actual conversationl, they provide no info and leave the guess the same until real investigation begins.

 

This isn't true, I agree with Meesh and key. Joke votes get the game started and can lead to more if they are left unhindered, that's how games normally go. I know, I've played a lot of mafia. Also declaring that joke votes are over and then telling people to stop being funny is highly ridiculous. Stop trying to take the fun out of the game. Also to declare you aren't going to joke vote because it doesn't advance the game, but then not do anything about it is silly.

 

Well in a deadline game that would make sense, but seeing as how there aren't set day deadlines in this game, might as cast one out there and hope.

 

Vote: amegakure

my thoughts on this post

you make a fair point about there being no deadlines

however that list bit strikes me as off

"cast one out there and hope" implies two things to me

1. that you know that this is fairly weak reasoning

2. despite the weakness of your case you would actually want Amega lynched over it

 

those two things lead me to think that you therefore know Amega is not on your team because why else would you want to lynch someone over such weak reasoning?

based on what you said it looks like you're going for an "easy lynch"

 

perhaps I'm going overboard though

I've been known to do such things in the past

I get caught up in my own little theories of what's going on

would anyone else like to weigh in on this?

 

This sounds like the pot calling the kettle black dear. You did the exact same thing *shakes head* just different wording. See here:

 

*pokes Nol* Why are you voting for me?

putting my vote on a train

 

Correction: You are starting a train.

 

And I don't mind joke votes for a bit. Gets conversation started. Especially while waiting for all of the players to show up. Once everyone is here is when I really like to get going with the game.

 

 

*pokes Nol* Why are you voting for me?

putting my vote on a train

 

Correction: You are starting a train.

 

And I don't mind joke votes for a bit. Gets conversation started. Especially while waiting for all of the players to show up. Once everyone is here is when I really like to get going with the game.

fair enough

it's not a joke vote though

if it was I'd make that obvious

I am completely willing to lynch you at this point

as much as anyone else anyway

 

@Soy: what Ishy said, seems like you're trying to hint that you're vanilla without saying it outright

dunno why a vanilla would softclaim vanilla personally but then I don't know why scum would softclaim vanilla either

I think I'm going to conclude that you weren't softclaiming at all since it doesn't make sense from any perspective I can think of

[mmeeshal]

I will note that I'm wary to condemn Amega (and those who are after him right now) so early in the game

like I said in the dead thread for the Naruto game I think sometimes people take advantage of Amega's spelling/grammatical errors and make him out to seem more scummy than he really is

I concur.

 

I see no particularly glaring case on Amega right now. There isn't anything necessarily wrong with refusing to partake in the jokevoting phase. Not everyone does it, and although mafia may tend to shy away from it at times, I really saw nothing wrong with Amega's reasoning. If he merely wants to voice his opinion on jokevoting, he shouldn't be condemned for something so simple. I don't like the train forming on him right now and would rather abstain from joining it.

I can see where Nol is coming from, but I don't get where Levity is. Amega has what, 3 votes on him? 4? I don't think everyone is voting him for the same reason. Boyo is voting him for his refusal to joke vote, yes, but that's not what the train is starting for, I don't think. The fact that you're making it out to be "everyone hates the non-joke-voter," which makes it sound ridiculous and unfounded, is making me want to keep an eye on you.

 

Personally, my vote has nothing to do with his unwillingness to joke-vote. I joined the discussion on it because I don't agree with his opinion, but my vote was already going on him.

 

I think he could do with pressure because, to me, first of all, the post I was responding to initially seems like trying to throw unfounded, inaccurate crap at the person voting for him--Amega asserts he was trying to move the game along, but again, all he did was say "joke voting is stupid, I'm not gonna do it." That itself didn't actually move the game out of joke mode into scumhunt mode; it just got a discussion on game play going, which isn't the same thing. Anyway, so he tries to make Boyo look extra bad by painting himself as a hero and saying that Boyo attacked him for the very thing he would be "heroic" for. That doesn't sit right with me--if you're going to attack someone's vote, don't use stuff that's made up or exaggerated. It doesn't help your case.

 

In addition to that part of his post, which already set me on edge, he did do the "Nol is right, your case was weak" thing and has been tying himself to Nolder seemingly at every turn. "Me and Nol tried to get the game going." "I agree with Nol." That sort of thing. Now, at first I took that to be maybe Nol and Amega are on a team--and I'm not totally dismissing that possibility. But I've seen scum attach themselves to a townie who is garnering a lot of attention, and I also think that this could be something Amega's doing.

 

Hence my vote on Amega. To me, he looks scummy.

[Nolder]

I figured you weren't joke voting me, but you never stated a reason.

Don't really have one

 

IIRC I saw someone vote you and figured that would make a good start and followed suit

 

See I hate this line of jumping on a train just because. One it's an oportunistic way for scum to jump on a train, and for two it doesn't work a lot of the time. We learned that in Amegas game when everyone jumped on key right in the beginning and we didn't learn anything Day 1. It's a ridiculous line of thinking. You just jump on someone and make them claim early with no reason.

you see it as opportunistic but I see it as practical

on day 1 there isn't a lot to go on

I see no reason to shy away from the fact that we have to lynch someone and that we'll likely have little to no reason for doing so

it sucks and it's somewhat unfair but that's what you get from a day start game

 

as for Amega's game

as I recall it was a No Coroner game

a very different beast

I don't know why you're bringing that into the discussion

 

Stop trying to take the fun out of the game.

people find fun in different things [see: Timmy, Johnny, and Spike]

 

This sounds like the pot calling the kettle black dear. You did the exact same thing *shakes head* just different wording. See here:

Well in a deadline game that would make sense, but seeing as how there aren't set day deadlines in this game, might as cast one out there and hope.

putting my vote on a train

 

the difference is Soy had a reason

one that could be analyzed and one which an opinion could be given on

he also put his vote with a purpose, it wasn't random at all

I have no reason and my vote was more or less random

[Levity]

I can see where Nol is coming from, but I don't get where Levity is. Amega has what, 3 votes on him? 4? I don't think everyone is voting him for the same reason. Boyo is voting him for his refusal to joke vote, yes, but that's not what the train is starting for, I don't think. The fact that you're making it out to be "everyone hates the non-joke-voter," which makes it sound ridiculous and unfounded, is making me want to keep an eye on you.

I don't know, it seems like that's how this whole ridiculous bout even started. You don't have to agree with me. Pack up your argument more and go ahead and FOS me for not agreeing with you (lol)--maybe I haven't been reading through this that clearly.

[mmeeshal]

Just making sure you knew what you were talking about. I'd hate to think you were misrepresenting my reasons/the train on purpose.

 

Also, I can go ahead and quote my original posts on Amega and my vote, if you think I'm making things up or changing my story.

 

I like people getting their facts straight.

[hotpocket2006]

Which makes your vote worse Nolder.

 

 

I am aware that Amegas was a no coroner game *rolls eyes* But the same thing happened to Key, building a train for absolutely no reason, just to get her to crack, but it didn't work. It turned into a big pile of nothing. Which is what normally happens. Or we out roles.

[Levity]

This isn't true, I agree with Meesh and key. Joke votes get the game started and can lead to more if they are left unhindered, that's how games normally go. I know, I've played a lot of mafia. Also declaring that joke votes are over and then telling people to stop being funny is highly ridiculous. Stop trying to take the fun out of the game. Also to declare you aren't going to joke vote because it doesn't advance the game, but then not do anything about it is silly.

... "I've played a lot of mafia, so therefore my stance is legit!"

 

Look: joke-vote phases have their pros and cons. They get the game started, albeit when elongated for a ridiculous amount of time, it runs the town around in circles. I've seen games remain in mostly jokevote/"we have no leads" phases for nearly three day phases. I mean, all right, I'll admit that Amega didn't necessarily have to voice her disdain for joke-voting, but COME now--what are you guys doing here? You know, I'm wondering if this whole Amega case is merely a distraction from everything else. There's something not right here with this. All I'm seeing is one line from Amega being blown out of proportion, leading him to utter suspicious words or somesuch and multiple interpretations to the case. My interpretation may sound ludicrous--I simply don't know how to word myself better.

 

In short: You find Amega scummy. I don't. This is from my perspective. You can choose to agree with me or disagree. Perhaps my opinion will change in the near future.

[hotpocket2006]

This isn't true, I agree with Meesh and key. Joke votes get the game started and can lead to more if they are left unhindered, that's how games normally go. I know, I've played a lot of mafia. Also declaring that joke votes are over and then telling people to stop being funny is highly ridiculous. Stop trying to take the fun out of the game. Also to declare you aren't going to joke vote because it doesn't advance the game, but then not do anything about it is silly.

... "I've played a lot of mafia, so therefore my stance is legit!"

 

Look: joke-vote phases have their pros and cons. They get the game started, albeit when elongated for a ridiculous amount of time, it runs the town around in circles. I've seen games remain in mostly jokevote/"we have no leads" phases for nearly three day phases. I mean, all right, I'll admit that Amega didn't necessarily have to voice her disdain for joke-voting, but COME now--what are you guys doing here? You know, I'm wondering if this whole Amega case is merely a distraction from everything else. There's something not right here with this. All I'm seeing is one line from Amega being blown out of proportion, leading him to utter suspicious words or somesuch and multiple interpretations to the case. My interpretation may sound ludicrous--I simply don't know how to word myself better.

 

In short: You find Amega scummy. I don't. This is from my perspective. You can choose to agree with me or disagree. Perhaps my opinion will change in the near future.

 

WHich is perfectly acceptable to have differing opinions. I just don't like how some people are coddling him. I also just pointed out my opinion on this so I could move on. I didn't vote him and I am not "blowing" anything out of proportion. I can comment and have an opinion on this too you know

[Levity]

Just making sure you knew what you were talking about. I'd hate to think you were misrepresenting my reasons/the train on purpose.

Ah... no, this wasn't my intention. Perhaps I should read a bit closer; the last time I visited the mafia forum I was babysitting and likely missed something when I was reading through. I have a tendency to do that and be a bit absentminded at times.

[Levity]

WHich is perfectly acceptable to have differing opinions. I just don't like how some people are coddling him. I also just pointed out my opinion on this so I could move on. I didn't vote him and I am not "blowing" anything out of proportion. I can comment and have an opinion on this too you know

Haha, I never said you didn't. My apologies for sounding a bit condescending there.

[mmeeshal]

This isn't true, I agree with Meesh and key. Joke votes get the game started and can lead to more if they are left unhindered, that's how games normally go. I know, I've played a lot of mafia. Also declaring that joke votes are over and then telling people to stop being funny is highly ridiculous. Stop trying to take the fun out of the game. Also to declare you aren't going to joke vote because it doesn't advance the game, but then not do anything about it is silly.

... "I've played a lot of mafia, so therefore my stance is legit!"

 

Look: joke-vote phases have their pros and cons. They get the game started, albeit when elongated for a ridiculous amount of time, it runs the town around in circles. I've seen games remain in mostly jokevote/"we have no leads" phases for nearly three day phases. I mean, all right, I'll admit that Amega didn't necessarily have to voice her disdain for joke-voting, but COME now--what are you guys doing here? You know, I'm wondering if this whole Amega case is merely a distraction from everything else. There's something not right here with this. All I'm seeing is one line from Amega being blown out of proportion, leading him to utter suspicious words or somesuch and multiple interpretations to the case. My interpretation may sound ludicrous--I simply don't know how to word myself better.

 

In short: You find Amega scummy. I don't. This is from my perspective. You can choose to agree with me or disagree. Perhaps my opinion will change in the near future.

Fair enough. You don't have to agree. That was never the issue. But that up there ^^^ about the joke voting thing is unnecessary, IMO. I don't give a care if he thinks joke voting is stupid or not. I wouldn't vote anyone based on that. Also, I agree with you wholeheartedly on the issue of joke votes--I said what you said myself.

 

What I take issue with is that the fact that things did start in response to his stance on joke voting (thru Boyo's vote and Nolder's dissection) is something you're "worried" about. Does it matter why the game is moving along, as long as it is? It's caused discussion, and any discussion isn't "wrong" at this point in the game--what better do we have to go on right now? It doesn't hurt to pressure people for information, IMO.

[mmeeshal]

Just making sure you knew what you were talking about. I'd hate to think you were misrepresenting my reasons/the train on purpose.

Ah... no, this wasn't my intention. Perhaps I should read a bit closer; the last time I visited the mafia forum I was babysitting and likely missed something when I was reading through. I have a tendency to do that and be a bit absentminded at times.

Ninja'd--most of my response above was based on the assumption that you'd read this ^^^ and were still maintaining that the case was all about joke votes. If you missed it, then no big deal. I just don't like being misrepresented by people. XD

[Levity]

Just making sure you knew what you were talking about. I'd hate to think you were misrepresenting my reasons/the train on purpose.

Ah... no, this wasn't my intention. Perhaps I should read a bit closer; the last time I visited the mafia forum I was babysitting and likely missed something when I was reading through. I have a tendency to do that and be a bit absentminded at times.

Ninja'd--most of my response above was based on the assumption that you'd read this ^^^ and were still maintaining that the case was all about joke votes. If you missed it, then no big deal. I just don't like being misrepresented by people. XD

I tend to misinterpret a lot of things :'D

 

All right, I'll read through again and see if anything changes.

[Levity]

What I take issue with is that the fact that things did start in response to his stance on joke voting (thru Boyo's vote and Nolder's dissection) is something you're "worried" about. Does it matter why the game is moving along, as long as it is? It's caused discussion, and any discussion isn't "wrong" at this point in the game--what better do we have to go on right now? It doesn't hurt to pressure people for information, IMO.

By the way, I meant to also apologize for accidentally implying that I didn't like that the game was moving along in response to Amega's comments. I like it. I guess I only misinterpreted that the admittedly miniscule train seemed to be starting far too soon over something so trivial, but there seem to be less votes cast than I realized, and much more purpose behind it than I saw. I suppose I pulled the same thing in the last game I played and I'm starting to feel a little guilty for being needlessly critical now.

[Levity]

Yea, Nolder has a point on soft claim.

I almost meant to point this out earlier while I was skimming through--restates opinion already made by a few people, short, no more content besides that, smack-dab in the middle of a more-fueled discussion, nothing more to add after this?

 

Just found it as a slightly odd, out-of-the-blue post.

[Nolder]

Which makes your vote worse Nolder.

how so?

 

I am aware that Amegas was a no coroner game *rolls eyes* But the same thing happened to Key, building a train for absolutely no reason, just to get her to crack, but it didn't work. It turned into a big pile of nothing. Which is what normally happens. Or we out roles.

ok you're right

let's not make trains on anyone

as a matter of fact let's all live happily ever after!

 

you're being idealistic here Song

I don't mind that you're wary of "trains with no reason" but there's a line between being wary and overcautious

no one is asking for anyone to claim so I don't know what you're so worried about here

[Nolder]

Yea, Nolder has a point on soft claim.

I almost meant to point this out earlier while I was skimming through--restates opinion already made by a few people, short, no more content besides that, smack-dab in the middle of a more-fueled discussion, nothing more to add after this?

 

Just found it as a slightly odd, out-of-the-blue post.

Ed does that a lot

[Levity]

Yea, Nolder has a point on soft claim.

I almost meant to point this out earlier while I was skimming through--restates opinion already made by a few people, short, no more content besides that, smack-dab in the middle of a more-fueled discussion, nothing more to add after this?

 

Just found it as a slightly odd, out-of-the-blue post.

Ed does that a lot

I'm new here, so I wasn't aware. Thank you for clarifying.

 

I'll also make note of Nyn and Verb for doing essentially the same thing, however.

[Nolder]

blanket statement for the games I'm in currently

 

I might be a bit less active in the next few days because I'm going to my friends house and will probably be playing a lot of Skyrim

however I do have a new powercord and I'll be bringing my laptop so I'll try to at least check in

[hotpocket2006]

Which makes your vote worse Nolder.

how so?

 

I am aware that Amegas was a no coroner game *rolls eyes* But the same thing happened to Key, building a train for absolutely no reason, just to get her to crack, but it didn't work. It turned into a big pile of nothing. Which is what normally happens. Or we out roles.

ok you're right

let's not make trains on anyone

as a matter of fact let's all live happily ever after!

 

you're being idealistic here Song

I don't mind that you're wary of "trains with no reason" but there's a line between being wary and overcautious

no one is asking for anyone to claim so I don't know what you're so worried about here

 

No that's been the theme of DM mafia games since I've returned to playing, before it was a lot different. We don't need to push people to claim, we just have to use our minds. And we also don't have to randomly start a wagon for no reason at all. There's plenty of time to get info and then start a wagon for a purpose which leads to a lot more info then a dead end.

[Nolder]

Which makes your vote worse Nolder.

how so?

 

I am aware that Amegas was a no coroner game *rolls eyes* But the same thing happened to Key, building a train for absolutely no reason, just to get her to crack, but it didn't work. It turned into a big pile of nothing. Which is what normally happens. Or we out roles.

ok you're right

let's not make trains on anyone

as a matter of fact let's all live happily ever after!

 

you're being idealistic here Song

I don't mind that you're wary of "trains with no reason" but there's a line between being wary and overcautious

no one is asking for anyone to claim so I don't know what you're so worried about here

 

No that's been the theme of DM mafia games since I've returned to playing, before it was a lot different. We don't need to push people to claim, we just have to use our minds. And we also don't have to randomly start a wagon for no reason at all. There's plenty of time to get info and then start a wagon for a purpose which leads to a lot more info then a dead end.

explain to me how this is supposed to work then

 

Step 1

...we don't pressure anyone in any way, we make non committal joke votes and as soon as anyone comments on them or a train is started we retract the votes ASAP

 

Step 2

??????

[Nynaeve]

It's a little bit hard for me to comment about the going ons at this point. Mostly because I'm personally not in a stage where I feel any sort of pinging towards a specific direction (yet). Sure, there's some controversial opinions about certain topics, such as joke votes, bandwagoning and so on. I respect the way every person chooses to look at it. Not sure if my own outlook on those matters would contribute in any way, but if anyone is interested in what I think I have no problem saying it.

 

As far as joke votes go I think they are valuable. It gets people talking and it can help as we go on with the game and start putting the pieces together. Some of those joke votes could very well be intentional as far as the baddies go and might help making a connection along the way (and might not. Still, it remains as some sort of tool). As far as bandwagoning goes. It's good when it's on a baddie and bad when they're on a townie LOL Which is a dumb remark, perhaps, but it doesn't make it any less true. Might sound a little idealistic but seeing as there are so few guarantees in mafia games... every lynch is based on a house of cards that could either hold or collapse. In previous games I sometimes voted for people that I thought could be townies, but decided to rely on other's instincts and avoid a random kill. Sometimes it paid off, sometimes it didn't.

 

As for Meesh's thoughts, I don't know if I she's indeed on to something or not. But it's definitely not something I'm going to dismiss. I'm going to keep it in mind and come back to it as the game progresses.

 

 

 

 

Nyn