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the angry amyrlin


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Hi there, this is the first time i am posting here, in fact i made my account just for this very purpose.


I've only been looking at the forums recently(although a long time reader of the series, and just finished my fourth read through) and i've seen the Egwene hate and love stuff and i would ask that be left by the side of the road for this discussion,

Ta very much :)


So to the point, i think Rand did what he did(not sure about spoiler specifics in this area) because of a reason i have yet to see on here. Basically it goes down like this Rand got her mad not to undermine her but instead because he wants her to take control of seanchan-free-randland. I believe he at one point he says something along the lines of the war isn't his to fight but the last battle is his.


so lets break down the world and spheres of influences:


seanchan controlled areas- Tarabon




Areas Rand has dominion over- Tear


Aiel (including with reasons later)


Arad Doman




White tower areas of influence- Andor



Ok so let me break down the important parts in this list. I've put andor and carhien in white tower sphere because of Elayne being queen and aes sedai, ultimately she will do what the white tower wants. Next we have the Borderlanders. they may have sworn their armies to Rand but he knows they will fight under the aes sedai if he asks them to, they have intimate knowledge of the boon a power wielder can be in the fight against the shadow. And so onto Ghealdan and Mayene, both of these are small powers who will do as Rand( or Perrin as the case may be)say. They wont believe they can go their own way now, and i don't think they want to. Both Alliandre and Berelain swore to the last battle without having Rand shove his fist down their throats, because they see that tying themselves to him could save their nations, they will see the wisdom of his actions in pushing everyone to an institution which will be around after he is gone. I feel Arad Doman is a cross between these two and the borderlands, Rodel has seen first hand that they need channelers, and not just for fighting.


So we move on to Tear and Illian, funnily enough the ones the books focus on. Rand has said that the war isn't going to be fought by him, so leadership of the war has to fall to someone. Egwene is the most reasonable choice for this and i think he is playing a little bit of daes dae'mar here. he knows that if he just says "erm yeah so i'm off to shayol ghol with all my bitches and hoes, and i want you all to be very good and listen to auntie Egwene while im gone" tear and illian will both break away, or not listen and subvert her because they will see Rand giving his friend charge of the world. So to get around this he admits to her that he plans to break the seals, which at first glance is an awful idea( it would be akin to pressing the BIG RED button). He knew that she would gather support from all the free rulers.

lets be honest under the circumstances you would be a fool not to be apprehensive at the least about it.


So when it comes to FOM and she has gathered all these people against him he will have bound them so tightly to the white tower that she will be able to run the war effort through her sheer will power. I think it comes down to a case of too many chiefs not enough Indians. With the severe decline of the White tower in the books it doesn't command the obedience needed to unite the continent against the myriad of threats facing Randland. This will tie into the dragons peace aswell, because now that all the nations are bound together they can agree to it.


why did i put the aiel in here aswell you might ask, well the answer to that is we saw at dumai wells that the sis'wai'aman are willing to dance the spears for the car'a'carn where other aiel aren't. so my opinion is that he will take all the spears of the dragon with him when he strikes at Shayol Ghol. The rest of the aiel will be spread throughout the land helping push back the shadow. She told the Wise ones so that it could be set up that certain aiel will refuse to follow where he is jumping. but alas i am getting onto another subject which i will be posting about tomorrow i guess.


In conclusion i think Rand made Egwene angry so that she would bind Illian and Tear so tightly to her that she will be able to lead the war effort without being countermanded everywhere, and to force the southerners to care what happens in the north and not wait for the shadow to come to them as soon as Rands back is turned.


I hope you enjoyed my first post. sorry if its a bit fragmented in places. feel free to rip it apart, after all until the book comes out its only idle speculation,

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Illian and/or Tear might be willing to follow Gareth Bryne, but it's doubtful either would follow Egwene al'Vere either as a person or as Amyrlin. Tairens in particular come with a built in antipathy to the White Tower, all of its denizens and all or it's doings.


Besides which, while she has become fairly adept politically, Egwene doesn't know her elbow from her shoelace when it comes to warfare.


Rand's problem is it has been so long since he's been around either Mat or Perrin he has no idea what their capabilities have become. From what we know, Mat is the obvious person to put in command of the Armies, but will Rand realize that?


It's fairly clear that he's come to the realization that the White Tower is largely responsible for the mess the world has become, so I don't see him doing anything that would boost their power or prestige. If anything he needs to knock them down a few pegs. Get the rest of the world to seer them as powerful allies but nothing to be in awe of or fear like they presently do.

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I believe you're on to something here.



Egwene doesn't know her elbow from her shoelace when it comes to warfare


Well, thats not really needed. Every other ruler we have meet aside from Tuon and Rand have had generals to lay down the tactics for war, and while Tuon and Rand clearly know their shoelaces from their elbow when it comes to warfare, so far they have both been relying on commanders to do some of their warfare (in Tuons case, most of her warfare)


It is also possible that he is setting up Randland for a emperor/empress in Mat and Tuon,and playing Eggwene into assembling a hammer to threaten the Seanchan into some peace aggreement...

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Thanks for the replies.


I reread it and sorry it's so repetitive and disjointed, ill try to make my next post more to the standard of an ogier.


Bob I see what you are saying but this is why they wouldn't just allow rand to raise egwene above them. For every darlin and dobraine like noble there are those who will not see the greater picture like arymilla or are darkfriends willing to subvert the lights cause like weiremon. By having her gather them to her banner, rand will have bound them to her without only hoping they would see the sense of his actions. True she isn't a general but she has Bryne with her and I believe rand will push ituralde bashere and agelmar on her aswell. With LTT's memories he understands that channellers will be a deciding factor in each battle, with the seanchan having damane already in play, and the wise ones and wind finders both are dispersed throughout their people it leaves the freelanders lacking magicians. Sure the asha'man have been about but consider the reckoning rand knows is coming there leaves him with only egwene to turn to. With her representing freeland and tuon representing seanchan it will be easier to push for the dragons peace

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