A new mystery to solve...

[RobertAlexWillis]

Guys ... Maj nailed this one.

[Bob T Dwarf]

No, Robert - as usual, Maj missed by a mile.

 

If Bashere's whereabouts were as widely known as you postulate, then all of the Andoran nobles who are beseiging Caemlyn would know about it too.

 

What better way to build a case for being the most fit ruler for Andor than to drive off "the invading Saldaeans." Yet, nothing like that happens. Amyrilla, etal, totally ignore the Saldaean presence.

 

Amyrilla knowing that Bashere is allied with Rand won't work as an excuse either. Rand made it abundantly clear that he intended for the Rose Crown to be Elayne's. Since she's willing to oppose that, Amyrilla wouldn't hesitate to take out Bashere. Especially since it would convincingly demonstrate how much more she was "protecting Andor" than Elayne was.

 

Bashere was well aware of the political realities in Andor. He was making every effort to be discreet, and keep his presence, and his location, from public knowledge. Neither he, nor his men were venturing into the BT to tell Logain where to look him up if he needed anything, so I repeat, how did Logain know he was anywhere nearby, and how did he find him in the first place, and how did he approach him before he had any idea that Taim would let him go off "recruiting"?

[chemteach1977]

Bashere had nearly 10,000 cavalry with him correct? Which means he had at LEAST 15,000 in his camp. His camp along with the larger Aiel camp were almost certainly not hard to find around Caemlyn. He stood aside in the conflict for the throne because Elayne asked him to.

The other nobles left them alone because it would be silly to attack them. They would certainly lose a large number of men attacking Bashere's men and possibly have the Aiel join in and kill them all.

Bashere is one of the few men that Rand seems to trust and likely Logain and just about everyone else seems to know that. (why else would DF be looking for the seal in Bashere's tent) I certainly think Logain is the best choice for Bashere's mystery man.

[Guest Majsju]

The very scene Bob seems to think is so mysterious says flat out that Amyrillia and the others with her knows about Bashere's prence, and ignore him, and anyone who has been paying attention to the politics regarding Elayne's fight to get the throne can see why it is so easy for them to ignore Bashere.

 

And the whereabouts of bashere's camp is obviously even more known in the Black tower, since that's where they send all the recruits who can't learn to channel. Unless Taim has ordered that noone is even allowed to mention basheres name where Logain might hear it.

 

Logain does not need to know the axact location of the camp, what he needs to know is that bashere and quite a big force is camped somewhere around Caemlyn. Unless he's been spending his entire time at the BT in a drunken stupor, he does know at least that much.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Assume, for a moment, that you're Davram Bashere, Captain General of Saldaea, and one of "the Great Captains" of this time during the Third Age.

 

Out of the blue, Logain Ablar, the most notorious of the False Dragons of the last few years, or an emissary from him, approaches you, secretly, with an offer to what??? Assist you in finding Rand? Help him find Rand in order to impart some vital intelligence? What???

 

Whatever the exact offer was, you're reluctant to have any part in it, and put this person off.

 

Then, the very next day, your tent is ransacked, and your wife is attacked.

 

Are you going to immediately jump to the idea that agreeing to do what this mysterious person proposed is now your only course of action? How incredibly convenient that this attack happened just at the time when Logain was available and eager to reach Rand. How lucky you are that all of this happened before Logain went on his way.

 

Remember now, you're a great general. You're politically and militarily one of the savviest men of this time. The woman you love has just been attacked and injured.

 

Would it, maybe... just maybe... occur to you that it's a little too convenient that you now have a reason to want the same thing that the mysterious, secretive man wants??? Would you, maybe... just maybe... be determined to do anything BUT what that mysterious man wants??? Would you maybe... just maybe... be inclined to seek out this mysterious man and practice garter making with his entrails???

 

But, nope. According to the all wise, all knowing Maj, you instead agree to everything he proposes. Take a bunch of Aes Sedai and Warders of dubious affiliation and loyalty... and incidentally lead 100,000 Trollocs and Myrrdraal... directly to Rand.

 

You are indeed one of the great political and military minds of this or any other Age.

 

NOT!

[Guest Majsju]

and incidentally lead 100,000 Trollocs and Myrrdraal... directly to Rand.

 

And you just decided that it was bashere who was responsible for leading the trollocs to the mansion?

 

As for the rest, if Logain tells Bashere he is going to go out looking for Rand, it would be pretty obvious to bashere that Logain would do so without any assistance from him, and have about the same chance at finding him, since going to Cairhien would be the logical next step.

 

And obviously Logain returns to pick Bashere up when Rand is somewhat located, it is not bashere who tells Logain where rand is.

 

So two scenarios here.

 

1. Bashere thinks he can trust logain, at least somewhat. He sees a chance to hook up with rand, which seems like a good idea concidering recent events, the information that someone is aggressively seeking the seals is important information for rand, and unless Bashere has invented the mobile phone, he pretty much has to tag along with Logain to have any chance at reaching rand in a decently short time.

 

2. Bashere does not trust Logain. Well, if he thinks Logain is up to something naughty, bringing about 100 Saldeans and tag along might be a pretty darn good idea, they don't stanbd a chance against channelers in battle, but might help rand get the upper hand.

 

Either way, the logical thing for bahsere to do is to go with Logain.

 

It's all in the books, as shown in basically every post except yours in this thread.

[Luckers]

Indeed, especially if Bashere made the connection between the attack on his wife, and the fact that the attackers have documents indicating they needed to remove things--for instance the seal. He would want to get to Rand and warn him of this new danger immediately.

 

Sorry Bob, Maj is completely right.

[Bob T Dwarf]

1. Bashere knows nothing of any writs authorizing the removal of anything. None was presented. None was found on the ransacker's bodies.

 

2. He has no certain knowledge what the ransackers were seeking. The seals would be a good deduction, but two men ransacking a tent could be simple thievery as well. Their dead bodies just outside the camp does point to something ominous, at least.

 

3. Bashere undoubtedly possesses many bits of knowledge it would be useful for Rand to know. All of them urgent to one degree or another. So what? That's a condition that has persisted for a number of books now. All he really has here is a suspicion, not knowledge of anything concrete.

 

4. Logain needed Taim's permission to leave the BT. He doesn't need Bashere for anything. There is no indication that he has any idea where Bashere might be found even if he were inclined to seek him out for some unfathomable reason. What is Logain's motivation for approaching Bashere? How did he do that BEFORE he knew he would be allowed to leave the BT?

 

5. Where and how and why Bashere and Logain hooked up is really unknown. All that is known is that they arrived at Rand's location in company.

 

6. When you're the commander of a large military force, ( and the Saldaeans numbered about 8,000 at this point ), you cannot secretly disappear for an extended period. Men-at-arms must be chosen, contingencies must be planned for, orders must be written, authority must be delegated, etc., etc., ad nauseum. Bashere would know all of that. Thus any secrecy surrounding such a leavetaking would be futile. In such a situation, the whole scene with Tumad becomes nothing more than florid melodrama. And useless besides.

 

I don't get the sense that Jordan stages scene's just to be futilely melodramatic.

 

If you do, more power to ya.

[Guest Majsju]

2. He has no certain knowledge what the ransackers were seeking. The seals would be a good deduction, but two men ransacking a tent could be simple thievery as well. Their dead bodies just outside the camp does point to something ominous, at least.

 

It doesn't exactly take an Einstein to figure out that thieves who get assassinated for failure hardly were after a purse. So unless Bashere has some magical mystery boots, it is obvious what the thieves were after.

 

3. Bashere undoubtedly possesses many bits of knowledge it would be useful for Rand to know. All of them urgent to one degree or another. So what? That's a condition that has persisted for a number of books now. All he really has here is a suspicion, not knowledge of anything concrete.

 

It is not until he hooks up with logain he gets the opportunity to seek out Rand. Before Logain, all Bashere could do was to ride out and search randomly. Logain provides the means of reaching Rand quickly, by Travel, and after Logains visit to Cairhien, an at least general knowledge of Rand's whereabouts. Which means bashere can go to Rand, leave his report, and if rand so wishes return to the army in a matter of a few days, without Logain it could have taken months before he could have returned, and that without even being sure of having any success at actually finding Rand.

 

4. Logain needed Taim's permission to leave the BT. He doesn't need Bashere for anything. There is no indication that he has any idea where Bashere might be found even if he were inclined to seek him out for some unfathomable reason. What is Logain's motivation for approaching Bashere? How did he do that BEFORE he knew he would be allowed to leave the BT?

 

He doesn't Need bashere, true. But as mentioned before, it would be foolish to not seek out someone who might have a bit more knowledge about what happened in cairhien that made Rand disappear, and where it might be a good idea to look for Rand now, or at least where to start searching for clues. Since Logain does not trust taim, it is quite obvious he wants information from other sources.

To get the permission from Taim to leave was only a matter of time, we can puzzle out that Taim does not dare to move too openly at this point, and it would have been close to impossible to refuse Logain to go out and recruit.

And since logain could be fairly sure to get the permission, the logical thing to do is to start preparing so he can move quickly once he gets the permission. You don't pack your bags on the way to the airport.

 

5. Where and how and why Bashere and Logain hooked up is really unknown. All that is known is that they arrived at Rand's location in company.

 

And you think it makes more sense that they somehow tumbled into eachother, and agreed on everything you claim they could not agree on at an earlier stage?

 

Timing is an aspect here, Logain must have reached cairhien long before bashere could possibly have reached it, if Bashere had taken his men and rode there, for some obscure reason. From Cairhien, Logain would have travelled immidiatly to the location close to the mansion we hear about later in COT, a location they also would have reached long before bashere on his little horse.

 

And even if they, due to some obscure miracle, stumbled into eachother, why the heck would they start talking about what they were doing if they had not met before? Would bashere approach a bunch of Asha'man and Aes Sedai he had not met before if he saw them out in the open, and reveal what he is up to? Would Logain approach a bunch of soldiers and reveal what he is up to?

 

Not likely. Unless an arrangement has been made earlier.

 

6. When you're the commander of a large military force, ( and the Saldaeans numbered about 8,000 at this point ), you cannot secretly disappear for an extended period. Men-at-arms must be chosen, contingencies must be planned for, orders must be written, authority must be delegated, etc., etc., ad nauseum. Bashere would know all of that. Thus any secrecy surrounding such a leavetaking would be futile. In such a situation, the whole scene with Tumad becomes nothing more than florid melodrama. And useless besides.

 

Bashere does not have to keep it a secret That he is leaving, only Where he is going. Tell the army that he is goijg to Tear, Illian, whatever. Once the truth is discovered, he will have met up with rand and done everything he planned to do.

 

I don't get the sense that Jordan stages scene's just to be futilely melodramatic.

 

So you don't think that the events at the mansion after their arrival has any significance? That Rand would be dead if Logain had never showed up, that the meeting with the false Tuon most likely never wuld have happened, that's not drama enough for you?

 

The arrival of bashere and Logain is a key event, that marks Rand's change from sitting around to activley start preparing for TG.

[Cybertrolloc]

I don't get the sense that Jordan stages scenes just to be futilely melodramatic.

So you haven't read any "talky" chapter with Rand since LoC (not even mentioning any scene involving a bath)? ;)

 

Is anything more given about Logain in Carhein in the letter Sashelle writes to the Tower?

[Bob T Dwarf]

OK, Maj, so you like melodrama for the sake of melodrama. That doesn't make your choice the only valid one.

 

The Dark had no notion where Rand was. It wasn't until one or more of those travelling with Bashere and Logain arrived at his location that whoever sent the Trollocs could pinpoint him. Thus he wouldn't have died without them being there because no attack could be launched until the appropriate person(s) arrived.

 

Or do you figure that one of the Manor's cattle, sheep, chickens, or pigs had been getting a little too lucky at cards, and bragging it up down at the pub, and so the Dark, tracking the affects of taverenism, KNEW Rand had to be there?

 

What leads you to believe that Rand was "sitting around"? Planning, certainly. Not uselessly chasing around the countryside to no purpose, certainly.

 

But, "sitting around"???

 

Rand has consistently shown himself to be fully aware of both TG and of all of the loose ends he needs to tie up before he can be successful at winning it. He is perhaps the only character who has. He's hardly been sitting around.

[Guest Majsju]

OK, Maj, so you like melodrama for the sake of melodrama. That doesn't make your choice the only valid one.

 

You were the one who brought up melodrama, not me. I don't see a perfectly logical chain of events as melodrama, just because it is not a super-mystery.

 

It's like claiming Olver not being Cain melodramatic.

 

The Dark had no notion where Rand was. It wasn't until one or more of those travelling with Bashere and Logain arrived at his location that whoever sent the Trollocs could pinpoint him. Thus he wouldn't have died without them being there because no attack could be launched until the appropriate person(s) arrived.

 

So, to back up your claims you ignore things, how unusual.

RJ has planted the possibility that one or more of the forsaken might be able to track ta'veren, and not by looking for the effects like Moiraine did in TDR. And guess who happens to be ta'veren? Right, Rand.

Storywise the attack could not have happened before logains arrival, since Rand would be very, very dead without that party.

 

Rand has consistently shown himself to be fully aware of both TG and of all of the loose ends he needs to tie up before he can be successful at winning it. He is perhaps the only character who has. He's hardly been sitting around.

 

And yet, pretty much as soon as bashere and Logain stepped through the door Rand went from "thinking" to actually get off his butt and do something.

And incidently, the first action he took included bashere, Logain and Loial.

[Cybertrolloc]

Anyone with KoD handy to check on Sashelle's letter for me?

 

The Dark had no notion where Rand was. It wasn't until one or more of those travelling with Bashere and Logain arrived at his location that whoever sent the Trollocs could pinpoint him.

You forgot Elza: known DF. Unless PoV admission isn't enough for you (she could be lying to herself).

 

But' date=' "sitting around"???

 

Rand has consistently shown himself to be fully aware of both TG and of all of the loose ends he needs to tie up before he can be successful at winning it. He is perhaps the only character who has. He's hardly been sitting around.[/quote']

Lying around insensate qualifies as sitting around to me, and he's done an awful lot of that. Remember how short the timeline is post LoC, half a year at most. One month down in Carhein, the campaign against the Seanchan, then running around in Far Madding, at least a week recovering from the Cleansing, sitting around after that until the Trolloc attack.

[paulie]

There is nothing in Sashalle's letter of relevance.

 

As far as I can see there is a causal chain that draws the reader to the conclusion that the mystery man is Logain. Of course that doesn't mean it is the case, but the evidence points overwhelmingly to it being the case.

 

In regard to some of your points Mr Dwarf, you claim that the narrative is being deliberately misleading presumably. You said (I think) that it seemed awfully coincidental that Logain and Bashere want to both see Rand at the same time. It doesn't seem that way to me, in fact it seems like both of them wanted to see Rand yesterday and for Bashere the attack was the final straw and for Logain permission was the key.

 

Now I do have some coincidences in the book that seem a lot more suspiciously coincidental :

Moirane fetching up in Emond's Field on the day that the Trollocs attacked.

Nynaeve, Elayne and Min rescuing Egwene on the day that Rand and co took the horn back from Turak

Taim finding Dumai's Wells.

 

Its a book, the narrative requires these coincidences.

 

I also personally don't think that Logain and co were the cause of the trollock attack, and to be honest I find it strange that you can read the text and conclude that the mystery man wasn't Logain and yet you can happily accept that because b happened after a, a must have caused b.

 

There also seems some confusion over exactly how Logain and co get to Rand, I think it'd help if someone explained it fully.

 

So:

 

Logain speaks to Bashere about going to meet Rand.

Logain requests permission to recruit from Taim (not permission to leave) and gets it.

Bashere agrees to go meet Rand with Logain but says he'll be bringing more people (soldiers to protect himself from Logain perhaps).

Rand is believed to be in Cairhien, or thats where he was last seen, so thats where they go.

They meet up with Loial and Karldin who are also looking for Rand.

None of these people can find Rand, they need someone who can and their best bet is the Warders of the Aes Sedai who went off with Cadsuane looking for Rand.

If Logain and Bashere (and Loial and Karldin) were ever to find Rand "easily" it would be through the Warders, and it would only work with the Warders coming with them.

 

I don't think its shocking that Bashere isn't mentioned as arriving with Logain. There is enough shocking in Aes Sedai arriving with a stilled false dragon that is acting like an Asha'man.

 

For the above version of events to be wrong then its probable that the mystery man had to be someone who could channel and had to be someone who would've taken Bashere to Cairhien (to make meeting up possible both in terms of time and space). Who and why would this be another person?

 

And finally Logain needed to take Bashere because he's a false Dragon (with Aes Sedai "prisoners"), his just turning up in front of Rand could have gone badly quite quickly.

[demeroe]

 

The Dark had no notion where Rand was. It wasn't until one or more of those travelling with Bashere and Logain arrived at his location that whoever sent the Trollocs could pinpoint him. Thus he wouldn't have died without them being there because no attack could be launched until the appropriate person(s) arrived.

 

Wasn't there a scene where Moridin appeared in Rand's mind, and Rand is convinced that they could actually see each other. I think this was shortly before the attack on the manor. Perhaps this how Moridin knows where Rand was... maybe... :?

[Chapmann]

In KoD ch.18 Rand thinks that Lanfear and Ishamael could locate ta'veren by their effects on the pattern. He also wonders if Moridin can locate him through the link they share. I think it was Moridin who sent the Trollocs and Myrdraal with Ishamael's method as Moirdin is Ishamael Reborn(Rand thinks that someone has learned Ishamael's little trick in ch.20). Moridin obviously did it as a feint so he would have a "catch" on the rest of the Forsaken.

 

I don't think this proves that Bashere led the Trollocs to Rand.

[Bob T Dwarf]

I don't think anybody is questioning HOW they found Rand.

 

What I'm questioning is whether Logain ( or some emmisary from him ) is the mystery man. I'm also questioning why, if Logain is that person, there is any attempt at secrecy. They may have left Andor together, they almost certainly would have arrived in Cairhien together, they would have left Cairhien together... everybody would know they're together. So why try to make a big secret out of them traveling together? The whole secrecy thing makes absolutely no sense IF Logain is the mystery man.

 

As to who led the Trollocs to Rand, my money is on Elza's Warder. I rather suspect that this is why Elza punishes him the first chance she gets. She has convinced herself ( probably with some help from Verin ) that the key to the Dark winning is for Rand to make it safely into the Pit of Doom. She isn't doing anything to endanger Rand yet, and she'd be rather perturbed with a Warder who had.

 

Who actually sent the Trollocs is still an open question. There wasn't enough time between when Rand saw the man in his head and when the attack happened for the attackers to have made it all the way from the deep Blight to the Manor, even using the Ways. The Ways can lessen the time it takes to get from A to B, but the Ways aren't anywhere near as fast as Skimming or Traveling, neither of which Shadowspawn can do.

[Guest Majsju]

Why the secrecy?

 

Let's see, Logain's permission is to go out recruiting, not to seek out Rand. Since Logain is highly suspicious of Taim, to say the least, it is quite natural he does not want Taim to know what he plans until he has actually met Rand.

 

As for bashere, a lot of people, including some of his own followers might not take too kindly to bashere waltzing off with a former false dragon. And to say that he is going to search for Rand would be to invite anyone and their uncle to try to follow him, since the entire world is wondering where the heck Rand is, and not everyone should have that information.

 

The less you tell people, the better control you have over who recieves what information. It is not the first time a character in this series have been tight-lipped about something that really is not that important to keep a secret. It is a very common theme that we see in every single book.

 

If it had been a big mystery around the corner everytime we saw someone trying to keep something a secret, there would be at least another 10 books left just to sort all those new plotlines out.

[Bob T Dwarf]

All of that is true, Maj.

 

But, it fails to take several things into account.

 

Bashere sends his most trusted lieutenant to meet with the mystery man and agree to what has been proposed. He does so in the most secret manner he can arrange under the circumstances, being careful that nobody overhears, and never mentioning any names.

 

Do you figure that Tumad is so uninformed that he wouldn't know who he was dealing with if that person was Logain? If not, then why doesn't Bashere simply, and quietly say to him, "Discreetly find Logain, and tell him I agree."?

 

What he actually says is,"You know where to find the man who came to me yesterday? Find him and tell him I agree, but there will be a few more than I talked about."

 

So, where would Tumad find Logain? At the Black Tower, of course. And, who would know about all of the comings and goings at the BT? Taim, of course. Especially if who came there looking for Logain was one of Bashere's officers. Especially if he had a simultaneous request from Logain to go out "recruiting."

 

If you doubt that Taim is keeping a close eye on Logain, consider that the man he sent to tell Logain he was free to leave knew exactly where to find him, even though Logain was out for a ride in the forest at the time.

 

If Taim is Dark, is he also so naive that he isn't also keeping an eye on Bashere and his most trusted officers? Not likely. Thus he would also know that Tumad was coming, if Tumad was being sent to meet Logain.

 

Is Bashere supposed to be smart enough to have figured all of that out? Yup.

 

So, if Logain is the mystery man, Bashere would know that any attempt to approach him secretly was doomed.

 

Then we have the small added complication that Logain immediately upon getting word he can go, sets about leaving. This is in the morning. Bashere's scene is in the afternoon. Logain would have already been in Cairhien by the time Bashere made his decision.

 

I repeat. Logain just doesn't work as the mystery man.

[Cybertrolloc]

It depends some on your general assumptions. How rigid Jordan is with his timeline, what literary devices he uses and avoids, how exact he is with chronology...

 

For example, I'm looking at The WoT Chronology page a bit up from here

710  	Saban-16  	Mar-02  	COT:Pr  	In his camp outside Caemlyn, Davram Bashere is contacted by Logain.

Of course Stephen Cooper assumes that Bashere attacked one day, Debraine the next and so on (I have minor quibbles with some stuff in his timeline, but no major disagreements I can think of outside KoD). The answers to your exact questions aren't going to be found literally, and I wouldn't give great odds that they're in Jordan's notes either.

 

After all it's the prologue, Jordan has done montages in them. Without mention of holidays/moon phases/weather/past events it's difficult to pin down events that don't have a lot of background or directly involve the same set of characters. Moreover, it's CoT with all it's mixed timeline goodness (about a week from about eight points of view).

 

There is any amount of plausible speculation we can make, but that's pointless since the best we can agree on is that it's plausible. Logain and the fellows he's close with can be anywhere in the world at a moment's notice. They're informed, organized, etc... It would be very difficult to prove that a Logain or Logain surrogate/Bashere meeting didn't take place after all ;) I think it's impossible to prove that one of Logain's crew wasn't just involved in the Seanchan campaign with Bashere for example--Logain doesn't have to be the mystery man either.

 

Plus needless melodrama is a fine candidate for Bashere not mentioning the name of who he's going to meet ;)

[Bob T Dwarf]

Here's your timeline, circumstances, and locale:

 

Gabrelle's POV:

... The snow was not deep but the morning air was crisp... With no one in sight except her two companions, she could almost imagine she was somewhere other than the Black Tower... They had had the morning to themselves, but now another rider appeared through the trees, a cloakless man in black who angled his horse in their direction when he saw them and dug his bootheels into his animal's flanks for speed despite the snow... Something that had always been there in the connection with Logain - determination - now lay hard and sharp as a knife. She thought she knew what it meant, this time, and knowing made her mouth dry. Against whom she could not say, but she was sure that Logain Ablar was riding to war.

 

It's still morning, Logain finally has his clearance and he's wasting no time getting to what he has in mind.

 

Bashere's POV - the very first line:

The sky above Caemlyn was clear, the sun a pale golden ball near its noonday peak.

 

Bashere still has the siege to observe, and the refugee fiasco to play out, and then his leavetaking from Bael, and making his way back to his own camp to find that his tent has been ransacked and his wife injured. I figure, it's maybe 2:00 PM by the time that all plays out. Then he has to deal with Deriya, find out about the dead looters, reach his decision and send Tumad off. 2:30-3:00 PM at best. Then Tumad has to discreetly make his way to the BT, being careful that he doesn't leave a trail to be followed. 4:00-4:30 maybe even later before Tumad learns that Logain is already gone and he's been on a wild goose chase. Long after dark before he can return and report to Bashere.

 

Logain just doesn't work.

[Guest Majsju]

Bashere sends his most trusted lieutenant to meet with the mystery man and agree to what has been proposed. He does so in the most secret manner he can arrange under the circumstances, being careful that nobody overhears, and never mentioning any names.

 

Do you figure that Tumad is so uninformed that he wouldn't know who he was dealing with if that person was Logain? If not, then why doesn't Bashere simply, and quietly say to him, "Discreetly find Logain, and tell him I agree."?

 

Walls have ears, and so does camps. Logain is a name that definitly would raise an eyebrow if someone not knowing what was going on heard it. You don't survive as long as Bashere in the kind of position he is without having learned how to be careful, even when there is no apparent need.

 

And it is not certain Logain came in person, he also has an interest in secrecy, better send someone who has less eyes on him. Someone who Tumad can easily get back to at some other place than the Black tower.

 

There are a number of logical explanations that makes far more sense than your imagined supermega-mystery.

 

Then we have the small added complication that Logain immediately upon getting word he can go, sets about leaving. This is in the morning. Bashere's scene is in the afternoon. Logain would have already been in Cairhien by the time Bashere made his decision.

 

So, Logain leaves, knowing that Taim might try to keep an eye on him. And you think he would Travel directly to Bashere? Or to Cairhien?

 

Right, because Logain is stupid...

 

Oh wait, Logain is a rather smart dude, perhaps he might have figured out that it might just be a good idea to make a few stops before returning to see what bashere has to say, before going to Cairhien which obviously would not be a logical place to go recruiting.

[cannon]

Do you figure that Tumad is so uninformed that he wouldn't know who he was dealing with if that person was Logain? If not, then why doesn't Bashere simply, and quietly say to him, "Discreetly find Logain, and tell him I agree."?

 

Bashere answers your question with his own thoughts. His POV specifically says:

 

No one except Tumad was close enough to hear him, but he spoke softly anyway and chose his words cautiosly. Sometimes the price of carelessness was death, too.

 

Bashere is worried about someone or something hearing him regardless of how quiet he says it. That's why he doesn't mention Logain's name.

 

Really, Bob, I think you're ignoring some very valid arguments by others in this thread on what I perceive to be some sort of quest to make more of Bashere than is there.

 

As the champion of "simplest explanation is often correct" and "work with the people you know are in the area" arguments in the Asmo thread, why are you so dead set against Logain being the answer to this question?

 

It's a very straightforward explanation that all of the evidence points to.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Logain is certainly smart enough to take precautions.

 

But exactly who is this unnamed confederate through whom he is negotiating with Bashere? Since when did Logain have any confidantes or confederates? He doesn't even trust the Two AS he's bonded enough to let them know what he's up to. He never trusted Nynaeve, and she's the one who restored his ability to channel. So, who is it that he suddenly now trusts to help him setup his most closely held secret?

 

And, exactly why is it that he'd return to get Bashere? If he'd already approached Bashere and been put off - which IS what happened to the mystery man - why would he come back and try again? He dunt need no steenkin Saldaeans. He's Logain bloody Ablar. He's as arrogant and full of himself as any character in the series.

 

And, if he's off bouncing around the countryside laying false trails for Taim's spies, then how is it Tumad or Bashere are ever supposed to find him? Or, he them? Armies redeploy regularly. He can't count on Bashere remaining in one place for long.

 

You're back to inventing motivations and circumstances that aren't supported by anything in the text, just like you were in the Asmo thread.

 

They arrived at the Manor together in the same coincidental way that all too many things have happened throughout this series, Rand's taverenism providing him with the people he needs to carry out the plans he has waiting, not as the result of some elaborate, pre-arranged plot that doesn't fit the timeline.

[Bob T Dwarf]

cannon -

 

The reason I can't support it is that the timeline won't support it. IF ( really, really BIG IF ) Logain ever approached Bashere, he'd already been put off. He now has his clearance and he's already moving on to the next step in his plan. He doesn't like persuasion, ( see his Embassy to the Sea Folk for verification of that ), and he aint waitin around for no laggards. Making everything dovetail in order for him to be the mystery man is just another case of pure invention by the reader.

 

I just can't overlook both the timeline and Logain's character like everyone else is doing just to make everything conveniently fit.