Two Rivers to rise as Manetheren?

[MasterAblar]

If Rand is still alive..

 

Well, either he swears before that happens, or else he swears fealty to whoever inherits the title.

[FarShainMael]

If Rand is still alive..

 

Well, either he swears before that happens, or else he swears fealty to whoever inherits the title.

 

There are six possibilities there. Rand's two children by Elayne, and Avi's yet-to-be-conceived quads (though there's a faint chance that may already have happened.

 

Elayne's son and daughter may be heirs to Cairhein and Andor. nothing in Avi's visions in the columns indicate any of her children taking over the Tr, but of course that's only a possible future. Complicated.

[Suttree]

I specifcily remember Elayne saying the two rivers would be their own nation (She would give the Two Rivers to Rand, and I vividly remember the word nation - I dont have book with me, im at work) I'll try to find it when i get home.

 

Sorry mate but that is wrong. Elayne could not be seen to cede land so soon after taking the throne and the whole reason they had to make it the DR seat as opposed to making Perrin the Lord was so the other nobles wouldn't be pissed about it's tax exempt status while Elaye gets tariff free trade. In addition Perrin swore fealty to Elayne and is obligated to come if she calls him to war.

 

Actually, wouldn't Perrin swear fealty to Rand?

 

Although Rand is technically High Lord, as Steward Perrin still swears ultimate fealty to the throne of Andor. Remember this is all a way to give the 2Rs special status, it is very unlikely Rand will ever claim his seat. Perrin's line in essence will rule.

 

ToM

"So nothing changes," Faile said again. "Except that you gain a powerful province to the west. Perrin, as your ally and subject lord, will agree to marshal troops in your defense. He will also call up his sworn monarchs to your allegiance."

[MasterAblar]

I specifcily remember Elayne saying the two rivers would be their own nation (She would give the Two Rivers to Rand, and I vividly remember the word nation - I dont have book with me, im at work) I'll try to find it when i get home.

 

Sorry mate but that is wrong. Elayne could not be seen to cede land so soon after taking the throne and the whole reason they had to make it the DR seat as opposed to making Perrin the Lord was so the other nobles wouldn't be pissed about it's tax exempt status while Elaye gets tariff free trade. In addition Perrin swore fealty to Elayne and is obligated to come if she calls him to war.

 

Actually, wouldn't Perrin swear fealty to Rand?

 

Although Rand is technically High Lord, as Steward Perrin still swears ultimate fealty to the throne of Andor. Remember this is all a way to give the 2Rs special status, it is very unlikely Rand will ever claim his seat. Perrin's line in essence will rule.

 

ToM

"So nothing changes," Faile said again. "Except that you gain a powerful province to the west. Perrin, as your ally and subject lord, will agree to marshal troops in your defense. He will also call up his sworn monarchs to your allegiance."

 

Well, yes, in practice it's the same in the end. If Elayne called on him, Perrin would have to answer. I was just thinking that if there was any fealty swearing to be done, it would actually be from Perrin to Rand rather than to Elayne. Obviously, making Rand High Lord was just a way to justify the tax exemption, so Perrin is the one who will really be ruling there, as like you said it's very unlikely Rand will ever claim his seat.

[MattHildenbrandt]

RJ certainly planted the seeds, provided he had lived to keep this thing alive for another 20 years. But as it sits, I don't see it happening.

[Arkane101]

It wouldn't happen, firstly, the oath he gave to the Seanchan saying he would put away any ideas of raising Manetheran, secondly, the agreement he made with Elayne, and since he has sworn to andor, he would teach his children the same thing, thirdly, Alliandre would not agree to her country to merely being part of another one, she may have sworn to Perrin, but I don't see her agreeing to merging country and it being named after another. Thats my two cents, also all the other arguments that other people have made that I didn't mention, lol.

[kght22]

based on the way things are currently there will be no manetheren. and while i myself think the broken crown is the name of the crown of saldaea, i'm likely wrong. something i think is possible though is that the crown is shattered at tfom. one of the first prophecies of the dragon demands the breaking of oaths and allegiances, this seems to be the time when that might mean something. the nations that exist after tarmon gai'don will not likely be the nations that went into it.

[Padraic_Seebrr]

based on the way things are currently there will be no manetheren. and while i myself think the broken crown is the name of the crown of saldaea, i'm likely wrong. something i think is possible though is that the crown is shattered at tfom. one of the first prophecies of the dragon demands the breaking of oaths and allegiances, this seems to be the time when that might mean something. the nations that exist after tarmon gai'don will not likely be the nations that went into it.

 

The Broken Crown refers to the political situation in Saldaea regarding the sucession. The Dragon has already broken all oaths and allegiances, as shown by the army that gathered to follow Lan to Tarwin's Gap, the wanderers on the major roadways since Rand's capture of Cairhein, the countries he has gathered under his banner, and the allegiance of Davram Bashere and Rodel Ituralde.