Something of an experiment: Success (in my view)

[Bob T Dwarf]

If it were a matter of simple disagreement, I would just let it go. Not all of us are ever going to agree on everything.

 

The problem, here, Robert is that you totally misunderstand the way causality really works.

 

What you see as causality is really just scapegoating. Scapegoating is more than just flawed logic. It's a totally flawed way of looking at the world. It's the method of finding the convenient excuse. It's intellectually lazy, and it's dangerous.

 

So, I persist in trying to get you to look beyond the convenient and comfortable to the real. To categorize things according to their actual properties rather than just stuff them into the first convenient pigeonhole.

 

Ultimately the choice of whether to actually put in the necessary thought to see the reality remains yours.

[racha_giurgiu]

It seems to me that there are a varying number of places that the chain of events begin. A matter of the domino effect. The end domino falls regardless of the very first domino starting off the fall or the second to last one.

 

You are all picking differnt dominoes in the same chain! Sammael died, last domino down.

[rochaid]

Well, the way is see it is that:

 

1;mashadar killed Sammy.

 

2;The reasons for the death of sammy simply CANNOT be attributed to himself only. By the some of the reasoning in this thread, it is ok to say that if Rand had not existed, then sammy is still alive, so is at least partially rands fault. Or it could be attributed to Mordeth for being such an evil person.

 

Who caused Sammy to go to Shador Logoth? Depends on what way you look at it. It was his plan to go to Shador Logoth.So it could be his Fault, but we could just as easily say that if Rand had not attacked he wouldn't have went so it was rand's doing.

 

In my opinion, it is Rands fault Sammael is dead, but other factors also apply, like Sammael's bad luck, Moridin, Liah screaming.But it is wrong to say that no-body except Sammael can be held reponsible for his death.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Sammael freely chose Shadar Logoth.

 

He could have chosen any number of other battlegrounds. He, and he alone, chose that one.

 

He chose it. Not Rand. Not Liah. Not the Creator. Not the DO. Not the Wheel.

 

Everything that resulted from there on flowed out of that one, single choice. It was Sammael's choice and nobody or nothing else's.

 

If a child breaks the cookie jar because it was too heavy for him to hold, is it the parents' fault for having a heavy cookie jar, or the child's for doing something he knows is wrong?

[RobertAlexWillis]

Therefore, if a person chooses to move to New York, and gets shot there, he/she is responsible for their own death. Nobody forced them to go to New York. So stop prosecuting all those innocent gunmen.

 

That's sarcasm, in case anyone missed it.

 

What you're not acknowledging, Bob, is that Sammael went to Shadar Logoth for a reason. He went because Rand attacked him. No, Rand did not force him to choose Shadar Logoth, nobody can ever force anyone to choose anything, but if you can only be responsible if you force someone to choose something, then, as I've said, everyone is always responsible for their own death. If you believe that, then we simply won't ever agree.

 

By the way ... define causality for me Bob. I'm interested to see your definition.

[SBoydW]

Hello People I am the Brother that this post was started about. Just joined the site and it's quite interesting.

 

Yes Graendal did it.