If Tuon Dies....

[1Brotherbill]

I think there's some mix up on the definition of racism. There is no racism in WOT. At all. Not even the Seanchan are "racist". They are xenophobic and elitist, but there really has never been any discussion of race at all in the books. It's been more about cultural conflicts than ethnic ones. The Seanchan see the Randlanders as uneducated and less than them because they let marath'damane run around and because of their militaristic inferiority. Within Randland, the differences between kingdoms are all political in nature. Even in places like Tear or Cairhein, the hatred within the cities are classist differences between the lords and peasants, not racist.

 

Bloody Aiel savages? Can't get much closer to a racist statement than that. Look up racism in the dictionary and tell me that it isn't in WOT. But that's normal and I really don't have a problem with it.

 

Why would anyone think that Tuon is going to die anyway? Outside of her being the Emporess nobody on this side of the ocean is going to kill her. When they find out she is Mats wife they won't kill her then. So she isn't going to die anytime soon. In fact out everyone she has the most chance of making it through TG. Then comes Avi because she has to have at least a few kids.

[Suttree]

I think there's some mix up on the definition of racism. There is no racism in WOT. At all. Not even the Seanchan are "racist".

 

They are racist against the Kaensada Hill Tribes such as Karede's sidekick Ajimbura.

[Bromo Sapien]

I think there's some mix up on the definition of racism. There is no racism in WOT. At all. Not even the Seanchan are "racist". They are xenophobic and elitist, but there really has never been any discussion of race at all in the books. It's been more about cultural conflicts than ethnic ones. The Seanchan see the Randlanders as uneducated and less than them because they let marath'damane run around and because of their militaristic inferiority. Within Randland, the differences between kingdoms are all political in nature. Even in places like Tear or Cairhein, the hatred within the cities are classist differences between the lords and peasants, not racist.

 

Bloody Aiel savages? Can't get much closer to a racist statement than that. Look up racism in the dictionary and tell me that it isn't in WOT. But that's normal and I really don't have a problem with it.

 

There's bigotry, but not racism. The Randlanders' views on the Aiel aren't based on the color of their skin, it's based on their culture and way of life. It's not on race, it's on culture differences. For example, the English and French have historically hated each other. That's not based on race either. The Randlanders certainly don't like the Aiel and definitely stereotype and insult them, but not because of their race. In fact, I'm pretty sure most of the Aiel are white, as are the rest of Randlanders that I can think of. The only people we've seen that I remember as having their skin tone be different are the Seanchan and the hatred of the Seanchan isn't because of race either.

 

They are racist against the Kaensada Hill Tribes such as Karede's sidekick Ajimbura.

 

I need to do another reread to catch up on the smaller characters like this, but was this actually racially motivated or more "conquering army imposing values"? Racism all comes down to the motivation behind the hatred, not the fact that there is hatred.

[CUBAREY]

I need to do another reread to catch up on the smaller characters like this, but was this actually racially motivated or more "conquering army imposing values"? Racism all comes down to the motivation behind the hatred, not the fact that there is hatred.

 

Not racism, it's a similar reaction to that of Randlander's to the Ail. As you said it's based on cultural differences not racial enmity.

 

 

The only people we've seen that I remember as having their skin tone be different are the Seanchan and the hatred of the Seanchan isn't because of race either.

 

Tuon and the Imperial family are black but not all Seanchen are black (or even the majority) from the descriptions of those we have met. The SeaFarer's are either black or resemble people from the Indian Subcontinent.

[Bromo Sapien]

The only people we've seen that I remember as having their skin tone be different are the Seanchan and the hatred of the Seanchan isn't because of race either.

 

Tuon and the Imperial family are black but not all Seanchen are black (or even the majority) from the descriptions of those we have met. The SeaFarer's are either black or resemble people from the Indian Subcontinent.

 

Hm, didn't know that. I remember the Sea Folk being described as darker, but I always thought of it more as a really deep tan developed from spending their entire lives outdoors on ships. I think this kind of proves my point. Not that I'm anywhere close to an expert on WOT (as I believe I proved in the very first sentence of this paragraph), but I have read the series multiple times beginning to end and I never saw any real racial descriptions. The fact that any fan who has read this many books dealing with the same characters and same location without picking up on the race of two fairly major groups speaks to the lack of racism in the novels. Most of the tension is based around gender (Channeling/Village Council-Women's Circle/etc.) or cultural.

[mbuehner]

Without a blood connection back to Hawkwing I don't see it (short of conquest, but by that definition anyone could become emperor/empress). Consider how Andor works, its all about blood lines connecting back to the founder. Without the last name Paendrag I don't think you get to sit on the big crystal seat.

[SharpDressedAsha'Man]

Without a blood connection back to Hawkwing I don't see it (short of conquest, but by that definition anyone could become emperor/empress). Consider how Andor works, its all about blood lines connecting back to the founder. Without the last name Paendrag I don't think you get to sit on the big crystal seat.

Sounds like it's Berelain's time to shine!

[Apple13]

I always thought Berelain would shave her head because she'd ally with the Seanchan. It would make sense since Mayene is constantly being dismissed as part of Tear, and making it part of the Seanchan Empire would set it apart from Tear once and for all. I agree that Tuon may make Berelain her heir though.

 

I don't see Mat sitting on the Crystal Throne, however. He works best in the field, as a general, not as a politician. He isn't very diplomatic or manipulative enough to deal with empires, especially not a huge one like the Seanchan. Though, I have to admit, it would be interesting to see the other characters' reactions to something like that.

 

Regarding the background talks on racism, I always thought the WoT had quite a bit of that going on. Characters from one country are always dissing other countries. Tear vs. Mayene, Illian vs. Tear, Aiel vs. Cairhienin, EVERYONE vs. Cairhienin etc. It's more of a mild version because you don't get very many places where you get two conflicting racial groups living together or anything...But idk, I guess the definition of racism differs for people. I don't think it's really all about colour.

[trelkor]

hi there

 

i've seen people saying that Tuon can't die because of the planned outriggers

 

i think this is a null point as until its released nothing is set in stone, so she can die, if they choose to not do outriggers, which is possible. She can even die if they go ahead with the outriggers because ideas change.

 

for example Rand was originally going to be a middle aged man, and yet here we are with 3 whelps saving the world.

[Suttree]

hi there

 

i've seen people saying that Tuon can't die because of the planned outriggers

 

i think this is a null point as until its released nothing is set in stone, so she can die, if they choose to not do outriggers, which is possible. She can even die if they go ahead with the outriggers because ideas change.

 

RJ had the Outriggers planned out and based on this Tuon's arc was set. BS does not have the freedom to change something that big in the story.