Slowing

[Leyrann]

I remember a very recent thread about this, but I can't find it (maybe it was just the Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer thread), so I start a new one.

 

I'd like to post my own theory here, and then we all go have some fine discussion, lol.

 

At first, it looks obvious. When you go channeling, your age increases slower (and, of course, stronger channeling makes a greater difference). But it seems not to be the case. Sharina is becoming younger. And do men live longer than women, because they are stronger? Also not likely. For this second part, I think I remember a quote (maybe someone could help me and post it, if it exists) that men start slowing at a later age than women.

 

This doesn't already fit with Sharina becoming younger. But what, if there is a certain age, say 22 for women and 27 for men, they start to slow. And if they start channeling after that, they become younger, until their age fits with this line. So you become older like other people, until this age, then it goes at 1/8 speed (or something like that). With 3 oaths, it goes twice as fast. And Sharina is 67. So then, she should, with her slowing, look like ((67-22):8+22)=27 years old. But, she will not be able to get children again, according to BS (or RJ, don't know). She will go on aging at this speed, so she has (if she doesn't swear oaths) 424 years to live (assuming she dies at 80). Without oaths. With three oaths, she would have 212 years left. So she will die at 491 or 279.

 

So what if you start channeling before you are 22? Then, you have 58×8=448 without or 224 with oaths to live. Plus 22 makes 470 or 246 years old. I can only say I either have the numbers wrong, or Cadsuane is extremely lucky. And that you live longer if you start channeling at a higher age.

 

If this is correct, a man with the same strength, would have 40 years less to live, because he starts slowing 5 years later. What do you all think of this?

[Luckers]

A very recent thread...?

 

You mean this...

 

Where could a Chosen live that could be described as a snowy glade during the time Rand is in Far Madden? (The first time)

 

Can you explain this? Maybe by telling what chapter you mean, or quoting the part you mean.

 

The stronger a person is in the power, the longer they live right? If that is right, then do male channelers live longer than female channelers on average? Or do saidin and saidar have different strength/life span ratios? It would be sort of ironic if the men do live longer since it's normally the opposite.

 

Possibly--remember women live longer than men on average naturally, so it may even out, and too the actual strength difference between the male average strength and the female average strength may not be enough to notably effect life--Romanda, Adeleas and Vandene were all of a similar age, yet the latter two stood near the bottom of the Aes Sedai strength range, and former stands at top. The difference in strength between men and women there may still leave them both living comprable life-spans...

 

Or not. We don't know :)

 

Actually, we do. I remember something of an interview that it indeed depends on strength, but the men start slowing later, so a woman of a certain strength would live longer than a man of that strength. It is even so, that a man can be somewhat stronger, and still the woman is the one who lives longer.

 

 

Here is my reply to you from that thread...

 

Actually we don't. Given that sharina is de-aging the 'when u start slowing' isn't as obvious an influence as you make out. It may be that it would mean what u suggest, and men don't live as long slowed due to starting later. And thus don't live as long, or it may mean that ultimately though men begin slowing late their bodies retroactively adjust, as we are seeing with sharina. We don't know.

 

But what, if there is a certain age, say 22 for women and 27 for men, they start to slow. And if they start channeling after that, they become younger, until their age fits with this line. So you become older like other people, until this age, then it goes at 1/8 speed (or something like that). With 3 oaths, it goes twice as fast. And Sharina is 67. So then, she should, with her slowing, look like ((67-22):8+22)=27 years old. But, she will not be able to get children again, according to BS (or RJ, don't know). She will go on aging at this speed, so she has (if she doesn't swear oaths) 424 years to live (assuming she dies at 80). Without oaths. With three oaths, she would have 212 years left. So she will die at 491 or 279.

 

So what if you start channeling before you are 22? Then, you have 58×8=448 without or 224 with oaths to live. Plus 22 makes 470 or 246 years old. I can only say I either have the numbers wrong, or Cadsuane is extremely lucky. And that you live longer if you start channeling at a higher age.

 

If this is correct, a man with the same strength, would have 40 years less to live, because he starts slowing 5 years later. What do you all think of this?

 

That we dont have much information, but that where we do have information, it disagrees with your numbers. Cadsuane is 295, Romanda is close to that, as was Meilyn before her death, and Gitara was older. Vandene and Adeleas also came quite close, and there are references to other Aes Sedai (retired) in this age bracket.

 

As I said in the original thread, we don't know. Perhaps this means what you think it means, but its all just supposition and guesswork.

[Leyrann]

Yeah, I knew we were talking about it in that thread, but I was thinking of a little earlier. And I indeed think the numbers are wrong, but I just want to know everything of this world. So also how slowing works. And we can get some useful things if we think about it with something like 100 people together.

 

Maybe you live 10 times longer if you slow... I don't know. That would give you a life of a little bit more than 600 years. And it's a logical number.

[Sharaman]

It won't be a simple relationship.

Other factors would come into it - general overall health and genetic disposition to diseases like diabetes and heart failure for instance.

Also ceteris paribus, in our technological age, women on average live longer than men - but there are many cultures where they don't because they receive less nutrition or have too many

conceptions and too many deaths in childbirth.

WoTland consists of pre-technology cultures. The male-female lifespans relationship may be different.

 

 

 

With respect to channeling anyway, somebody like Alivia is very strong is over 500 years old - several of the kin who aren't that strong are also very old - well over 400 years old.

LTT (and Demandred who is one day younger) were in early middle age at age 400. We ca'nt say that it's a multiply by 10 or multiply by 8 or whatever relationsip.

 

While being strong in OP should add to lifespan, lifestyle, other genetics, etc, will make a huge difference as well.

 

Among current WoT cultures, the Aiel, Seanchan and Seafolk should have a good idea.

The Seanchan definitely keep census records and every damane is registered. So presumably they know lifespans though they may not correlate to strength. Also sparkers (which is damane) may have different charcteristics from learners.

The Sea folk also seem to keep records since they have a strict ranking.

The Kin do keep records as well -- since their seniority is by age.

We don't know about the Aiel who live in such a harsh environment that general lifespan is probably less.

 

The upshot is that we as readers really don't have enough information to know. But Brandon / Maria have enough information to answer this, if they really want to.

[Leyrann]

It seems that channelers don't suffer diseases of age, so that wouldn't shorten their lifespan. And Aes Sedai also don't die from childbirth...

 

And don't forget that even non-channelers easily lived 150 years in the AoL. Last, the Aiel WO's don't fight, so they don't have problems with the harsh environment (at least, that's what I'd say).

[Sharaman]

It seems that channelers don't suffer diseases of age, so that wouldn't shorten their lifespan. And Aes Sedai also don't die from childbirth...

 

Evidence for not suffering diseases of age?

Also are you talking of AOL AS or modern AS?

 

And don't forget that even non-channelers easily lived 150 years in the AoL. Last, the Aiel WO's don't fight, so they don't have problems with the harsh environment (at least, that's what I'd say).

 

WOs die of snakebite, maybe through thirst and starvation, sunstroke, in Rhuidean during the testing, during hunts killed by wild animals, etc.

They also die of disease since they mostly don't know Healing.

They also live in a place where people tend to die early because the combination of heat and lack of water stress out the body.

[Luckers]

Evidence for not suffering diseases of age?

 

Nynaeve and Moiraine discuss normal immunity to disease in the Eye of the World when they see Mat under the influence of the dagger--Nynaeve asks if what Mat has is catching, and says that she can still help because she doesn't catch sick, and Moiraine replies that it is catching, and that Nynaeve's immunity would not protect her from this type of illness.

 

From there, its stated in New Spring (and confirmed by RJ) that channelers do not suffer the normal infirmities of Age, remaining quite robust into their old age.

[Arani Lepenque Aes Sedai]

The problem with using the example of Vandene, Adeleas and Romanda as a gauge is that the Oath Rod screws up a channeler's lifespan. Until we know how exactly the Oath Rod cuts down a channeler's lifespan I doubt we can actually compare Vandene and Romanda.

 

A more pertinent example would be Sumeko and Alise

 

Alise is under 200, and Sumeko is above 300 years in age. However, Sumeko looks about middle aged while Alise has quite a bit of grey hair in her head. Sumeko is quite a bit stronger than Alise in terms of strength in the Power.

 

So I would say, yes, stronger channelers slow more.

[Luckers]

Stronger channelers do slow more than weaker, my point was that the degree of differences between the male average strength and the female average strength may not be enough for it to have any percievable effect in terms of whether men on average would live longer.

[mb]

I recall from somewhere that the rate of a channeler's aging is 1 divided by the channeler's strength (or maybe it was channeler's potential); do not remember exact words nor where.