AMOL progress and excitement...

[StefanR]

Talked to Brandon today at his Vancouver signing. He said the release date will be in October, 2012. Aparrently it was being released in March, but Harriet wanted to have more time to edit the book.

[Guest Emu on the Loose]

October, wow. A whole 'nother year. I really thought that an extra six months would be enough for Team Jordan, meaning we'd get an early summer release.

 

On the plus side, we're a hair over halfway there now.

[Guest PiotrekS]

I'm pretty sure most, if not all, Mat in TGS was Brandon's. Hell, Brandon himself acknowledged that a lot of readers had issues with Mat in TGS and said he would work to write him better in ToM(not his exact words, but that's the gist). It would be really weird if he said he would try to write better Mat if that Mat had been in fact RJ's.

 

I think Bob might have confused Mat from TGS with Tower of Ghenjei sequence from ToM, which as I'd heard was written mainly by RJ.

 

I think we might be looking at the books from different perspectives here. For me personally the ending is not so huge a thing as for many others (that doesn't mean I'm not interested though!). I enjoy mainly the worldbuilding and characters, particular very well written scenes etc. For example right now I'm re-reading Shadow Rising and Fires of Heaven, just for Rand and Mat's interactions with the Aiel, the whole exposition of fascinating Aiel culture and lots of great scenes there (and Asmodean, of course). In fact, I might say I enjoy the most those things you might call the "filler", while on the other hand you seem to be concentrating mainly on plot gratification, in which case it is perfectly reasonable you would enjoy both TGS and ToM.

 

I would say different perspectives, both acceptable.

 

edit: I'm not believing for a second RJ wrote Hinderstrap. It might be a generational thing or something, but I just don't see RJ introducing a B zombie movie into WOT under any circumstances...If you're looking for a really weak and grating filler, Hinderstrap is a perfect example.

 

You're trying to take Hinderstap out of context. Mat's just had his whole world rocked. The child who kept trying to run and hide from all responsibility has just had to mastermind a brilliant guerrilla warfare campaign, followed by calmly watching 10,000 heavy cavalry kill themselves for greed. All coming hard on the heels of a marriage that scares him to his marrow, and learning that he's now not just nobility but royalty because of that marriage. And then execute an escape for 8000-9000 men pledged to him as their commander.

 

Mat is beginning to come to grips with his destiny at long last and it has him way, WAAAAAAAY out of his comfort zone. The Wheel has finally succeeded in forcing him to become a new Mat, and he's floundering around as he attempts to deal with all of the changes. You honestly expect someone in that set of circumstances to be unchanged by it all, and behave exactly as he did in, say, Salidar?

 

It's called character development. In Mat's case it's particularly hilarious because it has been so suppressed and so delayed. The Mat from TGS was perfect for his new circumstances.

 

If you REALLY enjoy the atmospherics and worldbuilding, may I recommend to you anything by Sinclair Lewis. He could do 20 pages about the dust on the mantelpiece.

 

Thanks, I'll try to check him out.

 

I don't say that Mat shouldn't have changed at all, I agree with your points - but we have already seen "new", more responsible Mat at least in CoT and KoD. If you wanted to portrait Mat in a single sentence, you could say he would grumble and swear he just wants to gamble and carouse, but he would in fact act as a responsible leader of the group. His behaviour towards Tuon, his taking care of Olver, Aes Sedai and the whole group has already shown that he no longer runs from responsibility. He just grumbles about it and tries not to show it.

 

The difference between RJ's and BS' Mat was in the dialogues, internal POVs etc. It is hard to explain exactly what seemed different, but e.g. Mat would probably never write those role playing scenarios for members of his group, because we know he did not enjoy reading and very rarely, if ever, wrote something. It was just not his style and it can't be explained away by marriage IMHO.

 

My problem with Hinderstrap is not really Mat, but devoting a whole chapter to tell a classic zombie story. I don't enjoy these kind of stories and see no point in intruducing it in WOT, especially when it takes a whole chapter. I guess it is pretty subjective.

 

From March to October, seven additional months for editing?The book now has to be flaming perfect when it finally hits the shelves

[XXX]

Odd that the publisher will wait for the holiday season to release the last book...people who have being reading the WoT series will buy the book whenever it is released. People who are not fans of the WoT will not buy the last book of a long series just because it is released on Christmas.. It is hardly a stand alone product.

 

It is one thing taking time to do the editing , however it is sheer stupidity to wait for a particular season to release the last book of a 22 year old series hoping for more sales.

[XXX]

I agree with Suttree here.

 

People can have different opinions about the quality of RJ's writing in comparison to masterpieces of world literature. But regardless of that, there is a very clear difference in the quality of writing between the first eleven tomes and TGS and ToM. Even if you see RJ's writing as "pulp fantasy" - which I personally disagree with - how do you rank the books which are wrtitten a level or two below that? I mean TGS and ToM.

 

The last book definitely needs more polish. A few months more waiting is small enough price to pay for a better book, which will be enjoyable on the re-read.

 

 

The last 2 books IMO were much superior to the last 4-5 Jordan books..typos and all. Jordan got lost in his world and books were incredibly boring.

 

At least Brandon, the "tempest" lover he is goes along at a rapid clip, be it the WoT series or the "Stormlight Archive"

[Bob T Dwarf]

Taking the last three replies in order:

 

PiotrekS: The difference is that Mat has now come to the realization that he needs to act in all the ways you describe. Before he was unconsciously doing those things, now he is aware that he needs to do them. Before he was just reacting to the moment. Now he is actually looking ahead, planning for contingencies, consciously making adult decisions. Before he could throw off anything adult he might have done as merely some knee-jerk response. Now, he is finally aware of all of his responsibilities and cognizant of the need to fulfill them and do it well. Throw in a mystery woman handing out Wanted posters of him that are so accurate nobody could fail to recognize him and, well...

 

Vizualize *ahem* CAPTAIN Jack Sparrow playing all the parts of the crew of the Black Pearl while in Davy Jones Locker. That's Mat internally as-of Hinderstap. Totally round-the-bend. Gonzo to the Nth degree.

 

XXX47: Couldn't agree more.

[Suttree]

I agree with Suttree here.

 

People can have different opinions about the quality of RJ's writing in comparison to masterpieces of world literature. But regardless of that, there is a very clear difference in the quality of writing between the first eleven tomes and TGS and ToM. Even if you see RJ's writing as "pulp fantasy" - which I personally disagree with - how do you rank the books which are wrtitten a level or two below that? I mean TGS and ToM.

 

The last book definitely needs more polish. A few months more waiting is small enough price to pay for a better book, which will be enjoyable on the re-read.

 

 

The last 2 books IMO were much superior to the last 4-5 Jordan books..typos and all. Jordan got lost in his world and books were incredibly boring.

 

At least Brandon, the "tempest" lover he is goes along at a rapid clip, be it the WoT series or the "Stormlight Archive"

 

I remember XXX saying earlier he didn't know what the "polish"(that even BS's camp has now acknowledged as missing) everyone was discussing was. Therein lies the problem when people talk about the last two books being superior. After the slow pace of many of the last books(not sure how KoD fits?) many people just wanted the plot gratification and were content since things seemed to be happening. The issue is with how it is written, very blunt and heavy handed while being riddled with errors/typos. This greatly effects the ability to enjoy rereads. The quality of the writing is a fair step below RJ and makes it difficult to immerse yourself in the world. Can not tell you how many times I'm clipping through a good chapter when all of a sudden you hit a stretch that just yanks you right out of the story.

 

I am very thankful to Brandon for stepping up and finishing the series for us. We all owe him a debt of gratitude for seeing it through. BS is capable of polished work and unfortunately what we have seen with TGS and ToM is likely the result of the need for a speedy release. Mark was right when he stated above that six months is nothing in the world of literature. This book will be around forever and is the final piece upon which RJ's lifes work will be judged. It's not about what the "fans" want, RJ touched all of our lives with this story. More than anything he deserves his final chapter to be the best it can be. That is why it is imperative that they take their time with aMoL and get it correct.

[Guest PiotrekS]

I agree with Suttree here.

 

People can have different opinions about the quality of RJ's writing in comparison to masterpieces of world literature. But regardless of that, there is a very clear difference in the quality of writing between the first eleven tomes and TGS and ToM. Even if you see RJ's writing as "pulp fantasy" - which I personally disagree with - how do you rank the books which are wrtitten a level or two below that? I mean TGS and ToM.

 

The last book definitely needs more polish. A few months more waiting is small enough price to pay for a better book, which will be enjoyable on the re-read.

 

 

The last 2 books IMO were much superior to the last 4-5 Jordan books..typos and all. Jordan got lost in his world and books were incredibly boring.

 

At least Brandon, the "tempest" lover he is goes along at a rapid clip, be it the WoT series or the "Stormlight Archive"

 

I remember XXX saying earlier he didn't know what the "polish"(that even BS's camp has now acknowledged as missing) everyone was discussing was. Therein lies the problem when people talk about the last two books being superior. After the slow pace of many of the last books(not sure how KoD fits?) many people just wanted the plot gratification and were content since things seemed to be happening. The issue is with how it is written, very blunt and heavy handed while being riddled with errors/typos. This greatly effects the ability to enjoy rereads. The quality of the writing is a fair step below RJ and makes it difficult to immerse yourself in the world. Can not tell you how many times I'm clipping through a good chapter when all of a sudden you hit a stretch that just yanks you right out of the story.

 

I am very thankful to Brandon for stepping up and finishing the series for us. We all owe him a debt of gratitude for seeing it through. BS is capable of polished work and unfortunately what we have seen with TGS and ToM is likely the result of the need for a speedy release. Mark was right when he stated above that six months is nothing in the world of literature. This book will be around forever and is the final piece upon which RJ's lifes work will be judged. It's not about what the "fans" want, RJ touched all of our lives with this story. More than anything he deserves his final chapter to be the best it can be. That is why it is imperative that they take their time with aMoL and get it correct.

 

Once again here I agree with Suttree. Think also that after the last book is published, there will be no more waiting, no more answers to come. It is worth a few more months to make the final experience of the series as good as it can be.

 

Bob, I see your points, but I still see the difference in Mat as something more, or, to be more precise, I see differences that are not connected to the facts you mentioned - of course just in my opinion. I guess it is a subjective thing as always.

[capuga]

Odd that the publisher will wait for the holiday season to release the last book...people who have being reading the WoT series will buy the book whenever it is released. People who are not fans of the WoT will not buy the last book of a long series just because it is released on Christmas.. It is hardly a stand alone product.

 

It is one thing taking time to do the editing , however it is sheer stupidity to wait for a particular season to release the last book of a 22 year old series hoping for more sales.

 

Yes, I'm sure that the publishing industry has absolutely no marketing data about when the most successful release points are.

[Bob T Dwarf]

To the point that 6 months is nothing in the publishing business.

 

Tell that to Robert Jordan, or Harriet, or Tom Daugherty. How much more of AMoL would we have if Jordan had only lived another 6 months?

 

Life is quick, brutal and very, very fragile. 0.06 seconds is enough for an author to die, depriving the reading public of the book he could have written if only he'd had another 6 months. On average 28 Million people will die in the next 6 months. What percentage of those 28 Million are WOT fans who will never get to see the end of the series they love?

 

6 months is an eternity.

[Guest Emu on the Loose]

On average 28 Million people will die in the next 6 months. What percentage of those 28 Million are WOT fans who will never get to see the end of the series they love?

 

6 months is an eternity.

 

I've thought about that myself. I'm not going to die in the next year, unless something unexpected happens, but some will go to their grieves--or have already gone--never knowing if I am right about Lanfear. =)

 

Reluctantly, though, I must say that I think the Suttree faction has a point. The final entry of the WoT series needs to be well-done, and plot-gratification is great for the first read-through, but the quality of the writing will affect the lasting integrity of the series. (In my opinion, WoT is not as epic or brilliant as many people here think, but I would still call myself a fan. Just not a diehard.)

 

However! I am also concerned that some of the people who are insisting that AMoL have more time till publication are secretly setting themselves up to criticize Brandon more severely later. Lots of people have unfairly maligned Brandon simply because he's got a different style of writing and never dwelt inside the heads of these characters like RJ did. Then there are the people who think Brandon did a poor job simply because he wasn't allowed enough time to do better. I expect there is some overlap between the two groups, and that some of the people saying that BS should have more time are just setting themselves up to be able to claim, after AMoL comes out, that Brandon sucked at writing WoT even when he had all the time in the world to turn out a WoT book. I hope that these people are a small minority of the ones who are saying that AMoL needs more development time.

 

As for myself...I want the series to be over. This plot and some of the characters have hooked me for years, even though I think RJ's quality of writing deteriorated over time (and was never world-class to begin with). I want closure, already! If I were the only fan, I'd take the plot gratification with an earlier release over the "polish" of a later one. But I want to be respectful to all those fans who feel otherwise, and their argument is a good one. The polish is important. I'm just not a diehard fan like many others are, so I don't need it. (And you, of course, are not a fan at all, by what I gather. I will say I can relate to your frustration, even if I don't agree with your position.)

[thom_merrilin]

I am happy to wait. Sure we all want the book done and dusted. But, the fact remains this is IT, the final book. The defining moment of the ages. The wind will no longer be there at the start, except in multiple rereads. If Brandon, Harriet & Tom decide it will be released in June or later does it really matter? A lot of us have waited 20 years for this, a short wait to see it clean of mistakes is worth it, surely?.

 

This will hopefully be as good as the first 11, and we'll see our characters make it through the storm that is Tarmon Gai'don.

 

But I do have one quibble, and that is Harriet's call to delay the e-book version till weeks after the hardback release. But, if that does happen then I may just have to wreck my wrists with the paper version.

[Bob T Dwarf]

On average 28 Million people will die in the next 6 months. What percentage of those 28 Million are WOT fans who will never get to see the end of the series they love?

 

6 months is an eternity.

 

I've thought about that myself. I'm not going to die in the next year, unless something unexpected happens, but some will go to their grieves--or have already gone--never knowing if I am right about Lanfear. =)

 

Reluctantly, though, I must say that I think the Suttree faction has a point. The final entry of the WoT series needs to be well-done, and plot-gratification is great for the first read-through, but the quality of the writing will affect the lasting integrity of the series. (In my opinion, WoT is not as epic or brilliant as many people here think, but I would still call myself a fan. Just not a diehard.)

 

However! I am also concerned that some of the people who are insisting that AMoL have more time till publication are secretly setting themselves up to criticize Brandon more severely later. Lots of people have unfairly maligned Brandon simply because he's got a different style of writing and never dwelt inside the heads of these characters like RJ did. Then there are the people who think Brandon did a poor job simply because he wasn't allowed enough time to do better. I expect there is some overlap between the two groups, and that some of the people saying that BS should have more time are just setting themselves up to be able to claim, after AMoL comes out, that Brandon sucked at writing WoT even when he had all the time in the world to turn out a WoT book. I hope that these people are a small minority of the ones who are saying that AMoL needs more development time.

 

As for myself...I want the series to be over. This plot and some of the characters have hooked me for years, even though I think RJ's quality of writing deteriorated over time (and was never world-class to begin with). I want closure, already! If I were the only fan, I'd take the plot gratification with an earlier release over the "polish" of a later one. But I want to be respectful to all those fans who feel otherwise, and their argument is a good one. The polish is important. I'm just not a diehard fan like many others are, so I don't need it. (And you, of course, are not a fan at all, by what I gather. I will say I can relate to your frustration, even if I don't agree with your position.)

 

No, I'm a fan or I wouldn't be here. Overall I've enjoyed the series greatly. Even though there was a whole succession of years when I had to hold my nose while forcing myself to slog through the swamp the plot had become.

 

It's just that because the author was so possessed of hubris that he thought he could get people to buy anything he put on paper and that he also had all the time in the world to finish that I'm unwilling to canonize him simply because he proved to have more ego than sense. ( Yes, that's harsh, but it's also true. )

 

The series, as-a-whole was mortally wounded by the poor quality of the work he did between 1994 and 2005. There is nothing that Brandon Sanderson can do to harm it any more greatly than Robert Jordan himself already had done.

 

In my estimation, you come closer to the truth than either of us would want with your statement that:

However! I am also concerned that some of the people who are insisting that AMoL have more time till publication are secretly setting themselves up to criticize Brandon more severely later. Lots of people have unfairly maligned Brandon simply because he's got a different style of writing and never dwelt inside the heads of these characters like RJ did. Then there are the people who think Brandon did a poor job simply because he wasn't allowed enough time to do better. I expect there is some overlap between the two groups, and that some of the people saying that BS should have more time are just setting themselves up to be able to claim, after AMoL comes out, that Brandon sucked at writing WoT even when he had all the time in the world to turn out a WoT book. I hope that these people are a small minority of the ones who are saying that AMoL needs more development time.

 

Those making the most noise about how additional time and polish can only help the series are ( mostly ) those who have been most vocal about how poorly Sanderson has done already. They've already shown themselves to be unwilling to accept anything not written by Jordan himself. Polish is their current excuse, but once the book is finally released they will find some other reason for maligning it and Sanderson, too. For them there is only the gospel written by Jordan and the heresy written by Sanderson, and no amount of polish will change the latter into the former.

 

The saddest fact of all is that Robert Jordan's style was such that he would always have been 3 volumes away from finishing because there would always be more ways to describe the clothing being worn, more skirts to be smoothed, more noses to be sniffed. He was incapable of going from Point A to Point B without wandering down every pathway and examining every tree and bush between as minutely as possible.

 

Quite simply he was not capable of getting to the point. Sanderson is. And, hooray for that.

[Guest PiotrekS]

I've thought about that myself. I'm not going to die in the next year, unless something unexpected happens, but some will go to their grieves--or have already gone--never knowing if I am right about Lanfear. =)

I very much wish you to be right, but unfortunately you are wrong. It is known.

 

Those making the most noise about how additional time and polish can only help the series are ( mostly ) those who have been most vocal about how poorly Sanderson has done already. They've already shown themselves to be unwilling to accept anything not written by Jordan himself. Polish is their current excuse, but once the book is finally released they will find some other reason for maligning it and Sanderson, too. For them there is only the gospel written by Jordan and the heresy written by Sanderson, and no amount of polish will change the latter into the former.

 

I think this statement is pretty oversimplified and very unfair. The difference in the style of writing is really significant and for everybody to see, it just needs a little open mind. You can like it or not, but personal attacks on the malevolent and mysterious group of people hating everything by Brandon Sanderson are not a right way to rebut a reasoned, well documented and constructive critique. It simply allows you to conveneniently gloss over many concrete points that has been raised in the discussion and which Brandon - as a talented and professional writer - is perfectly able to take account of to make his work better.

[Suttree]

I've thought about that myself. I'm not going to die in the next year, unless something unexpected happens, but some will go to their grieves--or have already gone--never knowing if I am right about Lanfear. =)

I very much wish you to be right, but unfortunately you are wrong. It is known.

 

Those making the most noise about how additional time and polish can only help the series are ( mostly ) those who have been most vocal about how poorly Sanderson has done already. They've already shown themselves to be unwilling to accept anything not written by Jordan himself. Polish is their current excuse, but once the book is finally released they will find some other reason for maligning it and Sanderson, too. For them there is only the gospel written by Jordan and the heresy written by Sanderson, and no amount of polish will change the latter into the former.

 

I think this statement is pretty oversimplified and very unfair. The difference in the style of writing is really significant and for everybody to see, it just needs a little open mind. You can like it or not, but personal attacks on the malevolent and mysterious group of people hating everything by Brandon Sanderson are not a right way to rebut a reasoned, well documented and constructive critique. It simply allows you to conveneniently gloss over many concrete points that has been raised in the discussion and which Brandon - as a talented and professional writer - is perfectly able to take account of to make his work better.

 

Indeed.

 

Some secret cell of BS haters have infiltrated the boards!(I would look to Luckers as the likely Subcomandante of this faction) The poster has already been proven wrong in his false claims that the people who complained loudest about Mat in TGS didn't have it right, since it was shown RJ wrote it all(guess he mixed that up with the ToG sequence). Now we have moved on to conspiracy theories in place of constructive debate. The irony in this situation is it's actually the exact opposite, how much more harm would be done if they had just rushed this book out in a year? The group pushing for more time is doing so because we want him to write the best book possible and create something we can enjoy for many years to come. But no, I'm sure there are fans of the series that would much rather bash an author on the boards than actually enjoy the final installment of RJ's lifes work!

 

The posters who have been most active in this thread have given very well reasoned critiques, while applauding the authors own admission that more time is needed. Polish isn't anyones excuse to bash BS, it is an issue that the author has addressed himself. In most cases we have also expressed our gratitude for the job BS has done. Again Sanderson has shown himself capable in his other works, it is not unfair to hold him to that same standard with the WoT.

[Bob T Dwarf]

 

Indeed.

 

Some secret cell of BS haters have infiltrated the boards!(I would look to Luckers as the likely Subcomandante of this faction) The poster has already been proven wrong in his false claims that the people who complained loudest about Mat in TGS didn't have it right, since it was shown RJ wrote it all(guess he mixed that up with the ToG sequence). Now we have moved on to conspiracy theories in place of constructive debate. The irony in this situation is it's actually the exact opposite, how much more harm would be done if they had just rushed this book out in a year? The group pushing for more time is doing so because we want him to write the best book possible and create something we can enjoy for many years to come. But no, I'm sure there are fans of the series that would much rather bash an author on the boards than actually enjoy the final installment of RJ's lifes work!

 

The posters who have been most active in this thread have given very well reasoned critiques, while applauding the authors own admission that more time is needed. Polish isn't anyones excuse to bash BS, it is an issue that the author has addressed himself. In most cases we have also expressed our gratitude for the job BS has done. Again Sanderson has shown himself capable in his other works, it is not unfair to hold him to that same standard with the WoT.

 

Nothing secret about them, they've been very open since TGS came out. Can't recall anything any of them has said that I'd call constructive criticism, unless, "Yuck! Mat would NEVER do X or say Y!" fits your definition of constructive. I don't recall Luckers as particularly egregious in this though. My memory is that he's been rather even-handed about what he's had to say, but that was two years ago and a lot has happened since, so my memory of all that may be wrong.

 

When it comes to WOT, I expect Brandon to be as complimentary and self-effacing in everything he says as it is possible for him to be without gagging in the process. It's called politics. Some refer to it as kissing frogs. He'd take the blame for almost anything when it comes to WOT except those words actually penned by Jordan. That's how the game is played in a situation like this.

 

None of which changes the fact that there are an awful lot of people who post on these board that will hate AMoL simply because Sanderson wrote it and Jordan didn't. No matter how much it gets "polished" it will never be exactly what Jordan would have written. Accept that and move on. Sanderson is a diligent and effective writer, his A Memory of Light will be the best version we're ever going to get. Be glad we get anything at all rather than beating the poor guy up in advance because "everybody knows that what he wrote could only benefit from lots of polishing." You haven't read his manuscript. Harriet hasn't even read his manuscript yet. Neither you nor she has any idea how good or bad it may be, but you all already know that it needs extra editing and extra polish.

 

How extremely arrogant of you all. I suppose you expect us to ask to kiss your rings, too.

[Suttree]

None of which changes the fact that there are an awful lot of people who post on these board that will hate AMoL simply because Sanderson wrote it and Jordan didn't. No matter how much it gets "polished" it will never be exactly what Jordan would have written. Accept that and move on. Sanderson is a diligent and effective writer, his A Memory of Light will be the best version we're ever going to get. Be glad we get anything at all rather than beating the poor guy up in advance because "everybody knows that what he wrote could only benefit from lots of polishing." You haven't read his manuscript. Harriet hasn't even read his manuscript yet. Neither you nor she has any idea how good or bad it may be, but you all already know that it needs extra editing and extra polish.

 

How extremely arrogant of you all. I suppose you expect us to ask to kiss your rings, too.

 

What an odd post, I almost feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone right now. I'll give you this Bob, you have done an admirable job of twisting things around here.

 

First off we don't need to say anything about the editing, we know because Team Jordan admitted that they need the extra time for that purpose "to get it right" and he is even changing the manner in which he does his drafts to make sure this is the case. You do realize this recent debate started with us applauding Brandon's admission that he was going to take the time to do so?

 

Second haven't we been expressing our gratitude for the work he has done? Go back and read the posts because it has been brought up a number of times. That doesn't change the fact that the majority of people pointed out flaws that most attribute not to Brandon as an author but to the first two books being overly rushed. It has nothing to do with who writes it, good writing is good writing. Parts of TGS and ToM fell short of that and needed polish. Accusing those who critique his work of being anti-BS is ludicrous. We know what he is capable of and supporting his need for more time in order to make this the best possible book it can be is the right thing to do.

 

If anyone deserves to be called out it is those who blindly want a rushed book and instant plot gratification to the detriment of the writing quality. Unlike some mysterious contingent of WoT fans, secretly lobbying for more time in order to bring about Brandon's downfall, this group actually exists.

 

Lastly I almost spit my coffee all over my mac when I read the arrogant comment. No need to go in on how off base it is for anyone who has read this thread but is that accusation really coming from someone who earlier posted?

 

All Knife of Dreams did was show us that Jordan was still capable of writing an interesting yarn and how badly he had wasted our time and goodwill for the preceding 11 years. Not satisfied with that, he then had the bad manners to die on us and leave somebody else to clean up his mess

 

If there is any arrogance it lies in the entitlement of the "gimme now regardless of quality, author owes me this" crowd. Again as Gaiman said "George R. R. Martin is not your bitch".

[Guest Emu on the Loose]

Lastly I almost spit my coffee all over my mac when I read the arrogant comment.

 

Completely off-topic, but in good humor, as a Seattle liberal myself I can attest that that sentence has waaaay too much irony. =)

[Suttree]

Lastly I almost spit my coffee all over my mac when I read the arrogant comment.

 

Completely off-topic, but in good humor, as a Seattle liberal myself I can attest that that sentence has waaaay too much irony. =)

 

LOL...spot on Emu.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Lastly I almost spit my coffee all over my mac when I read the arrogant comment.

 

Completely off-topic, but in good humor, as a Seattle liberal myself I can attest that that sentence has waaaay too much irony. =)

 

LOL...spot on Emu.

 

... That doesn't change the fact that the majority of people pointed out flaws that most attribute not to Brandon as an author but to the first two books being overly rushed. It has nothing to do with who writes it, good writing is good writing. Parts of TGS and ToM fell short of that and needed polish.

 

Let's start with what is possibly the most factual. How many people have read The Gathering Storm and Towers of Midnight? How many of those have "pointed out flaws" that were the result of those books being "overly rushed"? Is that number the majority of those who read both books? ( Just a brief reminder that the first 6 books, and still the best six books, were printed within a four year window, while TGS and ToM were given a year each versus the average eight months each for the first six. )

 

As far as I know, I read the same version of both books as you did. I found no fault with the way either was written. There was, however plenty of fault in how it was typeset and proofread. Both of which are beyond the reach of the author. If either book seemed to you to suffer from being rushed, take that up with the editor and the publisher. That's where whatever corners that you feel got cut got cut. They are the ones who control what appears on the printed page, not the author.

 

Beyond that all I can do is repeat that nobody other than maybe Peter, Brandon's assistant has read any of the manuscript yet, but somehow you all magically know what it needs to make it - I'm not sure - is it better? right? fitting? Whatever term you choose to apply you're all positive that the manuscript needs it and lots of it and that getting it to the proper state of - what - correctness? fullness? rectitude? is going to take all of six extra months.

 

Yeah, that's arrogance on your parts.

[Suttree]

Edit: Double post, please delete...

[Suttree]

As far as I know, I read the same version of both books as you did. I found no fault with the way either was written. There was, however plenty of fault in how it was typeset and proofread. Both of which are beyond the reach of the author. If either book seemed to you to suffer from being rushed, take that up with the editor and the publisher. That's where whatever corners that you feel got cut got cut. They are the ones who control what appears on the printed page, not the author.

 

As we all know this is grossly oversimplifying the editing process. Editing consists not just of the things you mention. Far more importantly it involves multiple drafts being sent back and forth gaining a fair amount of polish each time(this is why Brandon has changed his process and added time to address the issue). That process being cut short results in the blunt, heavy handed, uneven writing we saw for parts of TGS and ToM. So no I don't blame Brandon, especially since he has decided to take more time to fix the acknowledged issues.

 

Beyond that all I can do is repeat that nobody other than maybe Peter, Brandon's assistant has read any of the manuscript yet, but somehow you all magically know what it needs to make it - I'm not sure - is it better? right? fitting?

 

Not sure why this point isn't getting across. There is no magic about it. We know because Peter, Brandon and Team Jordan have told us Brandon is changing they way he does his drafts to get it more "polished"(direct quote) and needs this extra time because "They have to get things RIGHT in this final book"!(direct quote) We are merely applauding their decision to do so.

 

So supporting an author's decision that he needs more time to polish up the book is somehow arrogant? Don't see how that follows at all.

[nojnomad]

You know guys. I started this post to be excited about the coming book... Not so haters could pick apart RJ or BS writing skills and lover (I am one of these) could fly to the rescue.

I am as impatient as the next reader who has been waiting forever for this book but the truth is that it will be done when it is done and if you don't like that, don't read the book.

 

There are other threads in which you can jack around with grips about word count, please don't jack this thread with a bunch of griping, however comical it often is.

[Suttree]

You know guys. I started this post to be excited about the coming book... Not so haters could pick apart RJ or BS writing skills and lover (I am one of these) could fly to the rescue.

I am as impatient as the next reader who has been waiting forever for this book but the truth is that it will be done when it is done and if you don't like that, don't read the book.

 

There are other threads in which you can jack around with grips about word count, please don't jack this thread with a bunch of griping, however comical it often is.

 

So let's see a perfectly good debate concerning Brandon deciding to take more time and changing his process to address issues in the earlier books shouldn't go in a thread with "AMOL Progress" as part of the title?

 

In addition fans offering a critique of the work and supporting BS's decision in taking longer to make this the best book possible labelled as haters? Errmm care to explain how that works? Comedy how much that title "hater" is thrown around these days.

[XXX]

Odd that the publisher will wait for the holiday season to release the last book...people who have being reading the WoT series will buy the book whenever it is released. People who are not fans of the WoT will not buy the last book of a long series just because it is released on Christmas.. It is hardly a stand alone product.

 

It is one thing taking time to do the editing , however it is sheer stupidity to wait for a particular season to release the last book of a 22 year old series hoping for more sales.

 

Yes, I'm sure that the publishing industry has absolutely no marketing data about when the most successful release points are.

 

 

I am sure both RJ and TOR know how to make money which is why the WoT series was dragged out so much. This series should have be done and dusted years back,it was not because RJ and the publishers got greedy. This might sound harsh but it is true.